View Full Version : Territory production halted!?
Ive heard from a few people where I used to work (Ford dealer) that Ford have stopped the production line of Territories and wont get it going again till a fix is reolved. From what Ive heard Ford have started using a new supplier for the tailshafts and apparantly the tailshafts are too short and have been falling out. Can anyone else shed some light on this? I only got this a week ago.
I could very well be mistaken, however the bodies I saw being put together @ Broadmeadows looked REMARKABLY like territories to me. They are assembled on the exact same line as the falcons are, using a lot of similar componentry(which makes sense)
This was last Monday. The tour guide made no comment as to these drama's you describe & considering some of the other things he discussed seems quite unlikely to be the case.
For my money - I'd almost put money on saying tis still production as usual.(If anything in light of discussion probably increased production.)
Philbie
07-03-05, 11:57 AM
I don't think a tour guide would be telling you much in the first place.
I don't think a tour guide would be telling you much in the first place.
no more then your eyes can already tell you....
Philbie
07-03-05, 12:04 PM
yes indeed! WOuld have been a good tour none the less - it's on my to do list actually
johnydep
07-03-05, 12:11 PM
Ive heard from a few people where I used to work (Ford dealer) that Ford have stopped the production line of Territories and wont get it going again till a fix is reolved. From what Ive heard Ford have started using a new supplier for the tailshafts and apparantly the tailshafts are too short and have been falling out. Can anyone else shed some light on this? I only got this a week ago.
Tail shafts falling out? :jerk: No way.
If they have halted production it would have to be another reason.
Nah, hasnt been stopped.
If the supplier has changed, its about bloody time. Dana have pretty much ruined their reputation for all Ford owners/enthusiasts, cos their product was utter crap.
If the supplier has changed, its about bloody time. Dana have pretty much ruined their reputation for all Ford owners/enthusiasts, cos their product was utter crap.
Well that's reassuring for all us current owners!
LOL i guess it is. Just keep a good eye on it and if anything goes wrong get it back to your servicing dealer ASAP.
Having a seen a pile of these things in the parts warehouse that came out on warranty jobs, i dont ever want to see them again.
Hay back2thefuture, Just out of curiosity who wears the cost of the faulty parts when a waranty job is done I.E if the tail shaft needs to be replaced. Does Ford get reimburse form Dana for the defective part.
Matt
Bossxr8
07-03-05, 09:40 PM
Production has not stopped. Its amazing some of the stories some people can tell.
Bossxr8
08-03-05, 06:53 PM
Production has not stopped. Its amazing some of the stories some people can tell.
Got the info today, and the rumour is partially correct. Production has not stopped but the Territorys are not being shipped. They are being left at the factory until the problem is fixed, and yes it is the tailshaft, but they aren't falling out, they are slightly short on one side. Dana strikes again.
rodderz
08-03-05, 07:26 PM
Does Dana get a frequent kick up the bum from Ford or what? They seem to be the butt of most problems for BA!
galaxy xr8
08-03-05, 07:31 PM
Well I suspose it really depand's on what info and spec's Danna were given from Ford, this maybe a engineering problem but who really is to blame??????.
Well at a dealer level all we got was a newsflash stating shipments of Ford Territories has stopped due to a parts shortage. Customers were not very immpressed.
bfiipursuit
08-03-05, 09:13 PM
Are all Territorys from Build 1 affected by this, or is there a particular batch that have been built with the faulty tailshaft? I remember someone on here with a Black TS saying they get some sort of vibration, maybe this is the answer...
grahill
08-03-05, 09:35 PM
May have been me that you are referring to (Black TS with steering vibration). I still get random steering vibrations, sometimes where you hand is shaking vilently on the steering. Go around a corner and it stops. Dealer is having troubles finding a fix. Most of the time the vibration is only slight, and it is not always there. The dealer has re-balanced, and rotated tyres and still no change. Apart from this annoyance, everything else is perfect.
Got the info today, and the rumour is partially correct. Production has not stopped but the Territorys are not being shipped. They are being left at the factory until the problem is fixed, and yes it is the tailshaft, but they aren't falling out, they are slightly short on one side. Dana strikes again.
What do you mean short on one side?
would be very interesting to find out if this is a bach problem and if any have already been shipped. (Mine was a feb build so may be affected).
If so i suppose we can expect a recall.
Mechan1k
09-03-05, 12:36 AM
May have been me that you are referring to (Black TS with steering vibration). I still get random steering vibrations, sometimes where you hand is shaking vilently on the steering. Go around a corner and it stops. Dealer is having troubles finding a fix. Most of the time the vibration is only slight, and it is not always there. The dealer has re-balanced, and rotated tyres and still no change. Apart from this annoyance, everything else is perfect.
Another guy at work has the same problems with his TX ... it has been back so many times ... and still no fix for it. I'll let him know about the tailshaft issues ... and get him to speak to Ford about it.
#Russ#Es#
09-03-05, 01:25 PM
Another guy at work has the same problems with his TX ... it has been back so many times ... and still no fix for it. I'll let him know about the tailshaft issues ... and get him to speak to Ford about it.
This might sound like a stupid suggestion but have the territories with the problems mentioned had a on-car wheel balance??? Or a tailshaft balance???
Go light on the flaming :wink_2:
Russ
bfiipursuit
09-03-05, 02:38 PM
I dunno, but if my old mans new Territory has any one single issue with it, then we are never buying another FORD product again. My BA XR6 just spent the better half of last week getting stupid things repaired / replaced on it, I had 9 faults which is a joke for a car thats done 6000 kms.
We have a Mazda SP20 in the family which has done 12,000 kms and it hasnt had one warranty job completed on it, Fords testing and overall finish is a joke, but they are only as good as their suppliers, which is what most of it comes down to.... Holden has the same issues as they share some suppliers.
johnydep
09-03-05, 03:14 PM
This might sound like a stupid suggestion but have the territories with the problems mentioned had a on-car wheel balance??? Or a tailshaft balance???
Go light on the flaming :wink_2:
Russ
That is all done on the production line at Ford.
Hay back2thefuture, Just out of curiosity who wears the cost of the faulty parts when a waranty job is done I.E if the tail shaft needs to be replaced. Does Ford get reimburse form Dana for the defective part.
Matt
Matt,
I'm pretty sure that Dana pay for the cost of fitting a new one, as well as freight for the old/defective one t be returned to them. They dont pay the full price to supply a new one, they do pay something (unsure what % though), but usually it operates on an exchange basis - i.e. Ford gives them the stuffed one, and they swap it for a new one. Unsure of what they do with the old ones.
But yes, if the part is faulty and its not a Ford supplied one (i.e. in this case the tailshaft cos its from Dana), they dont lose money on it.
grahill
09-03-05, 09:20 PM
Who's Dana and where are they from?
What other major companies make parts for Ford? Does Bosch?
Grahill
Dana are the manufacturers of the diffs Ford use for the BA series. They have a real problem with the design of their product (or so it seems).
Bosch do make things for Ford, other companies who make stuff include: Hella (for stuff like head/taillights), VDO (instrument clusters, climate control/AC controls etc, possibly BEMs? not sure), Mitsubishi supplied alternators for EF and EL, possibly more im not sure.
ion do the transmissions (formerly Borg Warner, then became BTR, now called ion), however i think they're in a bit of financial trouble atm. Their contract to supply Ford runs out in 2007 (or thereabouts), so odds are it wont be renewed.
Sanyo do the audio systems for Territories, Pioneer, Alpine and Clarion have all also done audio systems for various models over time. ROH make the wheels too.
Mechan1k
10-03-05, 12:26 AM
I think Dana supply all the suspension componentry too ... and the AWD hardware assciated (along with a lot of the Adventra stuff as well ... which is shared with Territory) are supplied from Dana as well.
Mechan1k
10-03-05, 12:27 AM
This might sound like a stupid suggestion but have the territories with the problems mentioned had a on-car wheel balance??? Or a tailshaft balance???
Go light on the flaming :wink_2:
Russ
He hasn't had his tailshaft balanced ... I will let him know about it though ... but had on-car wheel balancing done last time it was in getting things fixed on it. He still has the vibration issue though.
AussieCJ7
10-03-05, 10:57 AM
Dana are the manufacturers of the diffs Ford use for the BA series. They have a real problem with the design of their product (or so it seems).
.
Their designs are sound, infact they are the number 1 diff of choice for extreme off road competition trucks around the world
They also supply the vast majority of diff's for trucks around the world
Dana have been making diff's since the early 40's I am sure there is much more to it than saying the dana diff design is flawed
AussieCJ7
10-03-05, 10:59 AM
My territory is a Feb build can anyone confirm exactly which Territory's have the problem and what are the exact symptoms.
I guess I will need to have it checked at the 3000k service
Bossxr8
10-03-05, 05:58 PM
Are all Territorys from Build 1 affected by this, or is there a particular batch that have been built with the faulty tailshaft? I remember someone on here with a Black TS saying they get some sort of vibration, maybe this is the answer...
It doesn't affect cars already built. It only affects a batch of cars built in the last week and they haven't left the factory.
Bossxr8
10-03-05, 06:01 PM
What do you mean short on one side?
would be very interesting to find out if this is a bach problem and if any have already been shipped. (Mine was a feb build so may be affected).
If so i suppose we can expect a recall.
Basically the end of the tailshaft isn't at 90 degrees to the side of the shaft, it is at a little bit of an angle, so one side is slighly longer than the other. Thats my assumption but i'm not 100%. As far as I know the tailshafts didn't fit in properly so any cars affected were picked up during fitment.
Their designs are sound, infact they are the number 1 diff of choice for extreme off road competition trucks around the world...
...Dana have been making diff's since the early 40's I am sure there is much more to it than saying the dana diff design is flawed
If that's the case then you'd think they'd be able to get the tooling right for an up to date model.
Little known fact.. It's cheaper to re-build each Ford Diff at the end of the line than it is to re-tool the line to fix the fault in the BA/Territory Diff...
The simple fact is that the Diff design/tooling is flawed otherwise there'd be no drama's with any locally built Ford diff..
fordless
01-04-05, 08:40 AM
yes indeed! WOuld have been a good tour none the less - it's on my to do list actually
If you want to go to a real up tech factory get your arse to Toyotas !!
i thought Fords was good until I went in there !!.
OMG they have their stuff together.
If you want to go to a real up tech factory get your arse to Toyotas !!
i thought Fords was good until I went in there !!.
OMG they have their stuff together.
You work for Toyota don't you? :insane:
fordless
01-04-05, 11:57 AM
You work for Toyota don't you? :insane:
I am a plumber !!
But thanks for guessing.
Well at a dealer level all we got was a newsflash stating shipments of Ford Territories has stopped due to a parts shortage. Customers were not very immpressed.
t least they didn't lie to you Ratt
Basically the end of the tailshaft isn't at 90 degrees to the side of the shaft, it is at a little bit of an angle, so one side is slighly longer than the other. Thats my assumption but i'm not 100%. As far as I know the tailshafts didn't fit in properly so any cars affected were picked up during fitment.
sum1knows
07-11-05, 10:00 PM
Im sorry, im new to this forum, and its amazing how original questions evolve. My understanding of the "tailshaft" issue is that the axle shafts were popping out of the diff resulting in loss of drive or nice oil leaks. The CV "driveshafts" (diff to wheels end) as opposed to tailshafts (trans to the diff) are supplied by Unidrive to Dana. The stuffup was from Unidrive.
allypally
07-11-05, 10:39 PM
So..... what actually do Ford make? Seems like everyone but Ford make the Tree
new2ford
08-11-05, 12:54 AM
So..... what actually do Ford make? Seems like everyone but Ford make the Tree
Quite right - and increasing sourcing from overseas as well. This outsourcing is probably the major cause of any problems you might be having with your Territory. A lot depends on how much the main manufacturer can control the quality process of outsourced components. I think one reason Skoda has risen to the top of the quality tree in Europe is that they have a practice of requiring their component suppliers to set up shop within the main factory precinct (a sort of industrial park) so that they can directly monitor the process. BMC did that to some extent here but I don't know if Holden and Ford ever did.
johnydep
08-11-05, 09:15 AM
I think you'll find that every manufacturer of complex products outsources parts & components.
This is how costs have been brought down to affordable levels for the masses.
What must not be done is to source parts on price alone, this goes down the line for all the suppliers, because component suppliers also outsource.
sum1knows
08-11-05, 09:19 PM
I think you'll find that every manufacturer of complex products outsources parts & components.
This is how costs have been brought down to affordable levels for the masses.
What must not be done is to source parts on price alone, this goes down the line for all the suppliers, because component suppliers also outsource.
Ford has a very complex system for supplier selection. Each of their Tier 1 suppliers (ie direct to their factory) must be a Q1 supplier. ie QS9000, ISO14001, plus a whole swag of other requirements.
Things always go wrong, but its how robust a suppliers processes are that determines the quality of the product. As well as the design of course.
As far as sourcing on procing, look at how many current Holden suppliers have lost business for the new VE.. Alot has gone overseas..
johnydep
08-11-05, 09:23 PM
Ford has a very complex system for supplier selection. Each of their Tier 1 suppliers (ie direct to their factory) must be a Q1 supplier. ie QS9000, ISO14001, plus a whole swag of other requirements.
Things always go wrong, but its how robust a suppliers processes are that determines the quality of the product. As well as the design of course.
As far as sourcing on procing, look at how many current Holden suppliers have lost business for the new VE.. Alot has gone overseas..
Welcome to the forums sum1knows.
Yes, Holden seem to have a lot of problems with suppliers. I don't understand how companies can do business with the auto industry in these boom times and go broke, eg ION.
Thanks for the info.
Bossxr8
08-11-05, 09:26 PM
Quite right - and increasing sourcing from overseas as well. This outsourcing is probably the major cause of any problems you might be having with your Territory. A lot depends on how much the main manufacturer can control the quality process of outsourced components. I think one reason Skoda has risen to the top of the quality tree in Europe is that they have a practice of requiring their component suppliers to set up shop within the main factory precinct (a sort of industrial park) so that they can directly monitor the process. BMC did that to some extent here but I don't know if Holden and Ford ever did.
Broadmeadows has a business park with a whole bunch of key suppliers working right next to the assembly plant.
sum1knows
08-11-05, 09:46 PM
Welcome to the forums sum1knows.
Yes, Holden seem to have a lot of problems with suppliers. I don't understand how companies can do business with the auto industry in these boom times and go broke, eg ION.
Thanks for the info.
ION was an investment company. When BTR's (Invensys) automotive sectors were sold, Dana brought the axles and subframes, ION took the transmissions. My guess is they tried to take on #1 more than they could handle, #2, did they have sufficient experience to handle the new products ? Im sure ION had plenty of chances to bring out 5 and 6 speed auto boxes.
Peter B
09-11-05, 01:42 PM
Broadmeadows has a business park with a whole bunch of key suppliers working right next to the assembly plant.
Remember reading that Henry Ford built the Baton Rouge plant in the USA to make everything apart from the tires, but he also had rubber plantations to supply the rubber. Had his own iron foundry on site, also glass making.
allypally
10-11-05, 12:09 AM
Ahhh....I just realised what Ford actually make..... The Invoice.
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