Pinging?

[Paxton]

Just came back for a burl in the Territory, and when forcing it to kick into first, the engine started pinging. It had been doing it recently, but it got a whole lot worse after pulling up a hill. It is a December 04 Ghia AWD, and it has only had PB ultimate 98 in it, and it has 7780 Kilometers on it. Has anyone else had the same symptoms. I have not noticed any loss in power, only the noise when forcing the engine to rev hard in first or second. I have not noticed it in 3rd or 4th at all.

With premium in the engine at all times, what would be the reason for the ping in the engine?


-Andrew

[johnydep]

That is odd, haven't heard of too many problems with the petrol engine.

Wonder if you got a bad batch of fuel.

These engines have a knock sensor, when pinging is detected ignition timing is retarded, if your problem is serious pinging you would notice a loss of power as the ignition timing is retarded.
Even if a sensor fails, the system should go into safe mode to protect the engine and again you would feel power loss. Unless the ECU has a problem.

I doubt it is a ignition timing problem.

Diesel fuel wasn't put in by accident, was it?
I know a few people who have done this, and the engine has pinged its tits off.

[Dodge]

usually it will ping in all gears, more in 3rd and 4th. pinging is not good , its a hot spot and can damage ur pistons or valves..

[johnydep]

paxtonandrew tells me it is definitely not a fuel problem.

So maybe it is an ignition or valve timing problem.

I just noticed a slight pinging noise on my Terri, the temp is hot, the A/C is on full and my wife reversed out the drive and accelerated hard up a hill. The pinging was very minor (I was standing at the end of the drive way), I'm not concerned, as I have noticed most modern vehicles have this sort of pinging when conditions are favourable for it.
Also, my wife tends to fill up with standard unleaded, I always use BP Premium. I have never noticed a ping on the BP stuff.

Your problem sounds serious.
Best thing would be to get a Ford workshop to put their diagnostic tools onto the vehicle.

Make sure you keep us informed on this issue.

[grahill]

I've never used Premium (too cautious I guess), only regular unleaded, and no pinging here.

.

[johnydep]

Someone on another forum reckons this is a known problem and that Ford are working on a fix.

Anyone else hear of this?

The only engine problem that I know of is of the fuel system running slightly on the rich side.

[BuuBox]

I'd be surprised if that was the case, johnydep, otherwise you'd think you would have heard a bit more about it... afterall, it's the same engine that's been fitted to Falcon's since 2002.

[Ouzo]

Noticed mine pinging under load up hill when using normal unleaded. Doesn't do it with premium (95) though

[paulvdb]

Are people mixing this up with the ticking sound problem? That was eventually put down to noisy injectors ticking into the air-con intake.
That generally happens when the engine is under load (not necessarily a lot of revs) - so a larger injection at lower revs.

[Paxton]

I am still experiencing it with Caltex Ultimate 95. I have decided to put a run of regular through the car, and see what it does. Usually when the car is under load, I push the selector across to Sports, or into 2nd, which because of the still stiff notion of the engine, I do to save the engine. I have the Climate Control on all of the time, sitting at 23 degrees and Auto. This could not have a bearing on the sound of the engine, and the way it is sounding. I am sending it to Ford on Thursday week, and we will see why it is sounding like it does. Then there is the lurch in 1st gear, when taking off, which also needs to be fixed...

[johnydep]

I'd be surprised if that was the case, johnydep, otherwise you'd think you would have heard a bit more about it... afterall, it's the same engine that's been fitted to Falcon's since 2002.

I agree.

But there is this niggling thought I have, has the engine management system been re-tuned to suit the weight & gearing of the vehicle.

Hopefully it is something simple.

paxtonandrew thanks for the update, keep them coming.

[Mechan1k]

I've never used Premium (too cautious I guess), only regular unleaded, and no pinging here.

.

Same here ... have always used normal unleaded ... never had a problem with pinging ... I don't drive it gently all the time either ... and like to give the car a bit of a fang as well ... it's not babied around (only when the fiancee drives it).

Never heard it pinging with the horse float on under load either ... I thought I would have though .. but nothing ... smooth as silk.

I hope I don't get a pinging problem either.

[johnydep]

I've never used Premium (too cautious I guess), only regular unleaded, and no pinging here.

.

What do you mean "too cautious"?

Premium is a better refined fuel with more octane than standard ULP.

Ford official specs even states that more power & fuel economy will be acheived using PULP.

Australian ULP is one of the poorest quality ULP's in the world.

Give a couple of tanks a go, you might be surprised. :hihi:

[paulvdb]

What do you mean "too cautious"?

Premium is a better refined fuel with more octane than standard ULP.

Ford official specs even states that more power & fuel economy will be acheived using PULP.

Australian ULP is one of the poorest quality ULP's in the world.

Give a couple of tanks a go, you might be surprised. :hihi:
I agree. I'm "too cautious" to use regular ULP for fear of clogging up the filters and putting muck on the valves :lol: . PULP is nearly always going to be a better option in all current cars apart from a few rare ones that don't have tuning maps and knock sensors that understand higher RON petrol.

[grahill]

Is the price difference really worth it? $1:17 (ULP) to $1:25 (PULP) in our part of the world anyway. How does it compare in Sydney or other parts of Australia?

It says in the Territory manual:
"Only use unleaded petrol with a minimum octane rating of 91 (RON). Higher octane unleaded petrol may be used without detriment."

My question is how is the added expense worth the better fuel efficiency. It seems to equal out to me. You are telling me that PULP is cleaner! Where can I find "EASY TO UNDERSTAND" information about these facts, and have "Ford official specs" shown to me?

Why change something that is running well? HELP I need convincing, and I know you people are the ones to do just that. :notworthy

.

[johnydep]

Is the price difference really worth it? $1:17 (ULP) to $1:20 (PULP) in our part of the world anyway. How does it compare in Sydney or other parts of Australia?

It says in the Territory manual:
"Only use unleaded petrol with a minimum octane rating of 91 (RON). Higher octane unleaded petrol may be used without detriment."

My question is how is the added expense worth the better fuel efficiency. It seems to equal out to me. You are telling me that PULP is cleaner! Where can I find "EASY TO UNDERSTAND" information about these facts, and have "Ford official specs" shown to me?

Why change something that is running well? HELP I need convincing, and I know you people are the ones to do just that. :notworthy

.
:updated:
Here is some info for you to read & watch.
http://www.bp.com.au/ultimate/pages/video.asp
BP Ultimate has a unique formulation that improves vehicle performance, cleans your engine and delivers less pollution than ordinary fuels.

BP Ultimate has a research octane number (RON) of 98, which is higher than standard unleaded petrol which has a research octane number (RON) of 91. This difference in octane can, on average, provide increased power benefits in certain vehicles.

BP Ultimate is more than just increased power. The benefits of BP Ultimate also include enhanced cleaning and reduced engine friction.

The performance benefits depend on the individual vehicle, but our aim has been to give material performance benefits to all vehicles that upgrade from any ordinary unleaded to BP Ultimate, in the areas of improved acceleration and responsiveness, increased power and reduced fuel consumption. *For information on older cars please refer below.

Unlike previous generations of "premium" fuels, these benefits are due to much more than just increased octane number.

Whilst some benefits are noticeable on many car types quite quickly, full benefits will be achieved with continuous use of BP Ultimate.

http://www.ford.com.au/inside_ford/press/View_Press_Release.asp?file=foa316.htm
A wide band knock control strategy has been developed for the Barra 182 engine to prevent the potentially harmful effects of detonation as well as to cope with variable fuel quality.

It is activated across the entire rev range.

Advantages for customers are enhanced if they run on Premium Unleaded fuel. Increased spark advance means more power and greater consumption benefits without the risk of detonation.

[gz1]

Is the price difference really worth it? $1:17 (ULP) to $1:20 (PULP) in our part of the world anyway. How does it compare in Sydney or other parts of Australia?

It says in the Territory manual:
"Only use unleaded petrol with a minimum octane rating of 91 (RON). Higher octane unleaded petrol may be used without detriment."

My question is how is the added expense worth the better fuel efficiency. It seems to equal out to me. You are telling me that PULP is cleaner! Where can I find "EASY TO UNDERSTAND" information about these facts, and have "Ford official specs" shown to me?

Why change something that is running well? HELP I need convincing, and I know you people are the ones to do just that. :notworthy

.

Price as of yesterday 12/4/85 at Caltex Abbotsford (Sydney inner west)
Standard ULP $1.04, Premium (Vortex) $1.21. This price gap does vary, but usually it's greater than $0.10 per liter. So to my sipmle mind, to have any benefit from this my fuel consumption must be at least 10% better. I have tried premium for 3 tanks in a row, and in Sydney traffic the fuel consumption difference is less than 1 liter per 100km better with premium than with standard unleaded.(17.9 standard, 17.2 premium). So from my point of view it's not worth it. Especially when the difference is 17c per liter. That's $12.75 more per tankful (75 liters).
If the difference was only 3c per liter as in grahil's area then it would be a no brainer to use premium all the time.
I really must try using premium again once the engine has a few more miles on it and see if there is a real difference then.

[Iouri]

I use PULP, but...

Just spoke to NEW OAK FORD service department. While they always recommend PULP fuel as a cleaner one they also said that Barra182 is not designed to adjust to take advantage of the higher octane and therefore will not deliver ~1% of fuel economy per 1 octane difference if use PULP. Some fuel economy may still be there as PULP has less of the carbon contents and therefore you may get a slightly more energy out of PULP. As far as they concerned PULP is better because it is cleaner and better for the engine. They recommend run 1-2 PULP tanks per 3 month.

More info on http://www.theopenroad.com.au/motoring_carcare_fuelguide.asp

ULP/PULP
There will be progressive environmentally-friendly changes to the specifications of standard unleaded petrol (ULP) over the next decade. The sulphur content of premium unleaded petrol (PULP) is 150 ppm (parts per million) now and all petrol, including standard ULP, must be at that level from 2005. In addition, the benzene content of petrol must be less than one per cent from 2006.

Some oil companies offer high octane (ultra-premium) unleaded petrol of 98 octane, compared with standard unleaded at 91 octane and premium unleaded at 96. There is no advantage in using high octane fuel unless your vehicle's engine management system is designed to adjust to take advantage of the higher octane. If in doubt, check your vehicle handbook.

Even if the engine does adjust for the higher octane, the maximum advantage is generally around one per cent increase in engine power (or reduction in fuel consumption) per octane number. Unless the price of the higher octane fuel is less in cents per litre than the difference between the fuels in octane numbers, it is probably not economically worth your while using the higher octane.

[johnydep]

I use PULP, but...
Just spoke to NEW OAK FORD service department. While they always recommend PULP fuel as a cleaner one

they also said that Barra182 is not designed to adjust to take advantage of the higher octane

and therefore will not deliver ~1% of fuel economy per 1 octane difference if use PULP. Some fuel economy may still be there as PULP has less of the carbon contents and therefore you may get a slightly more energy out of PULP. As far as they concerned PULP is better because it is cleaner and better for the engine. They recommend run 1-2 PULP tanks per 3 month.
.

If that is what your service deparment think & recommend, I suggest you find another dealership.
Read this official Ford press release; http://www.ford.com.au/inside_ford/press/View_Press_Release.asp?file=foa316.htm
Offering a generous 182 kW at 5000 rpm and 380 Nm of torque at 3250 rpm, the Barra 182 engine.....

A wide band knock control strategy has been developed for the Barra 182 engine to prevent the potentially harmful effects of detonation as well as to cope with variable fuel quality.

It is activated across the entire rev range.

Advantages for customers are enhanced if they run on Premium Unleaded fuel. Increased spark advance means more power and greater consumption benefits without the risk of detonation

I notice an improvement in fuel consumption, mainly due to the increase in power I can feel that allows me to use less pedal to move of the line.

[Iouri]

I always run on PULP and can't compare with ULP. Confused, I called New Oak Ford again (but different service centre) asking connect me to real motor professional and the right person.

His answer was exactly what Johnydep has pointed: while Barra182 tuned to run on ULP91, due to the use of knock out sensors it will produce higher power or better fuel economyon PULP98. He declined to speculate about how much would be the improvement, 1% or less.

He also reckons that in Melbourne the best quality PULP fuel at Mobile and BP. The same time not impressed with Caltex fuel.

[gz1]

Originally Posted by Iouri
I use PULP, but...
Just spoke to NEW OAK FORD service department. While they always recommend PULP fuel as a cleaner one

they also said that Barra182 is not designed to adjust to take advantage of the higher octane

and therefore will not deliver ~1% of fuel economy per 1 octane difference if use PULP. Some fuel economy may still be there as PULP has less of the carbon contents and therefore you may get a slightly more energy out of PULP. As far as they concerned PULP is better because it is cleaner and better for the engine. They recommend run 1-2 PULP tanks per 3 month.

-----


Interesting this is what I have seen. Slight improvemetn, but not enough to justify the use of PULP.

and on anothe post,
-----------

His answer was exactly what Johnydep has pointed: while Barra182 tuned to run on ULP91, due to the use of knock out sensors it will produce higher power or better fuel economyon PULP98. He declined to speculate about how much would be the improvement, 1% or less.

He also reckons that in Melbourne the best quality PULP fuel at Mobile and BP. The same time not impressed with Caltex fuel.

------------
Perhaps that is the reason I am not seeing much difference. I have been using Caltex for all my running. I shoul go and try it with BP now and see if there is a real difference.

[Ouzo]

I use BP PULP and I reckon the improvement is about .5 l/100k - roughly worth the extra cost. Noticeable extra power, no pinging and maybe cleaner fuel makes it worth it in my estimation. Interestingly the only time i got a tank of 98 pulp, I thought there was a further improvment of around .5 litre/100k

[johnydep]

I am still experiencing it with Caltex Ultimate 95. I have decided to put a run of regular through the car, and see what it does. Usually when the car is under load, I push the selector across to Sports, or into 2nd, which because of the still stiff notion of the engine, I do to save the engine. I have the Climate Control on all of the time, sitting at 23 degrees and Auto. This could not have a bearing on the sound of the engine, and the way it is sounding. I am sending it to Ford on Thursday week, and we will see why it is sounding like it does. Then there is the lurch in 1st gear, when taking off, which also needs to be fixed...

How has your pinging been, still there?

Have you tried any other fuel?

[Paxton]

Unfortunately the Ping is still there. The car goes in for service tomorrow, and the ping is only one of the things on the 'to fix list' which includes a gearbox shunt when finding 1st. gear.

My problem is the Territory is a Company car, and as such, my work gives me a fuel card for BP, and they jump up and down if I go anywhere else and claim it back to them. Tomorrow will be the decider. Otherwise I am happy with the performance of the car.

-Andrew

[johnydep]

Unfortunately the Ping is still there. The car goes in for service tomorrow, and the ping is only one of the things on the 'to fix list' which includes a gearbox shunt when finding 1st. gear.

My problem is the Territory is a Company car, and as such, my work gives me a fuel card for BP, and they jump up and down if I go anywhere else and claim it back to them. Tomorrow will be the decider. Otherwise I am happy with the performance of the car.

-Andrew

Well I doubt it is fuel.

I know what you mean with the trans, I have felt it a couple of times, but it is so minor & inconsistant I have never mentioned it.

Keep us informed on what happens tomorrow.

[Paxton]

Repost. Sorry Folks.

[Paxton]

Well ladies and gentlemen, it appears the o2 sensors were stuffed. Apparently there is a problem within the Falcon motors with the sensors failing. And thus, the Pinging has vanished. The report reads "checked and replaced o2 sensors". The car seems more responsive, and the shunt in the gearbox has also vanished. I am glad the car is back to normal. It has been to worrying to have problems with a relatively new car, especially one with only 10,000 KMs on it. My faith is renewed in Ford service.



-Andrew

[johnydep]

Wow, faulty O2 sensor at 10,000km.

I was going to mention faulty sensors, but I thought they were good for 100,000km.

You might want to mention this in the six cylinder section, might be a few guys out there with BA's.

Does the Terri have two O2 sensors?

[Iouri]

Wow, faulty O2 sensor at 10,000km.

I was going to mention faulty sensors, but I thought they were good for 100,000km.

You might want to mention this in the six cylinder section, might be a few guys out there with BA's.

Does the Terri have two O2 sensors?
Sorry for my illiteracy. What O2 sensors for?

[johnydep]

Sorry for my illiteracy. What O2 sensors for?

Oxygen Sensor

It measures the amount of oxygen left in the exhaust, sends reading to computer & the fuel air mixture is adjusted.

[paulvdb]

Well ladies and gentlemen, it appears the o2 sensors were stuffed. Apparently there is a problem within the Falcon motors with the sensors failing. And thus, the Pinging has vanished. The report reads "checked and replaced o2 sensors". The car seems more responsive, and the shunt in the gearbox has also vanished. I am glad the car is back to normal. It has been to worrying to have problems with a relatively new car, especially one with only 10,000 KMs on it. My faith is renewed in Ford service.



-Andrew
That seems wierd - surely the computer would have shown up a fault code for that! How did they miss it previously? O2 sensors fail on all sorts of cars (normally a bit later than 10,000 of course) and seem to be easy to test. Maybe someone can post the normal voltage range for the sensor and a pin-out so that we can check them ourselves.

[johnydep]

That seems wierd - surely the computer would have shown up a fault code for that! How did they miss it previously? O2 sensors fail on all sorts of cars (normally a bit later than 10,000 of course) and seem to be easy to test. Maybe someone can post the normal voltage range for the sensor and a pin-out so that we can check them ourselves.

this has some handy info; http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question257.htm

No mention of pinging; http://auto.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=question257.htm&url=http://www.forparts.com/o-21.htm
The following symptoms will help tip you off to a failed oxygen sensor:
Surging and/or hesitation
Decline in fuel economy
Unacceptable exhaust emissions
Premature failure of the catalytic converter

[paulvdb]

this has some handy info; http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question257.htm

No mention of pinging; http://auto.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=question257.htm&url=http://www.forparts.com/o-21.htm
Thanks for that - I was hoping you might have had a pinout for the Ford specific O2 sensor (I should really do a search - I'm sure this would be covered elsewhere)

Given that the Barra DOES have a knock sensor and can vary the mix depending on a range of factors, pinging would indicate to me a poor fuel/air mix which leads back to either the ECU or one of it's sensors (just like any other car made in the last couple of decades). This STILL seems to me to be something that a service organisation should pick up. O2 sensors are in everything on 4 wheels so this should be a very common service item.

Reading another Forum (in this case for my blasted Magna - second car) O2 sensors can fail fairly regularly causing all the symptoms mentioned.

[johnydep]

Thanks for that - I was hoping you might have had a pinout for the Ford specific O2 sensor (I should really do a search - I'm sure this would be covered elsewhere)

Given that the Barra DOES have a knock sensor and can vary the mix depending on a range of factors, pinging would indicate to me a poor fuel/air mix which leads back to either the ECU or one of it's sensors (just like any other car made in the last couple of decades). This STILL seems to me to be something that a service organisation should pick up. O2 sensors are in everything on 4 wheels so this should be a very common service item.

Reading another Forum (in this case for my blasted Magna - second car) O2 sensors can fail fairly regularly causing all the symptoms mentioned.

Sorry for the lateness of this, I forgot all about it.

I'll try and add the diagram.

[paulvdb]

Sorry for the lateness of this, I forgot all about it.

I'll try and add the diagram.
Thanks - I'll have a look at this when I get a chance

[swainey5]

I have a 2004 BA and it has had a problem with pinging since new.

Ford have downloaded 5 new flash codes to trey & stop it but nothing has worked so far.

My car will pinge hot or cold even under rather light loads, like up hill going from 60 to 80ks.

It is really frustrating.

The service manager suggested I run it on premium. I was loath to do this because the bloody thing was designed to run on standard unleaded.

However will I get better fuel efficiency from premium. What is the best brand Perhaps I will bill Ford for the cost differnece

[Paxton]

I have had no problems with my car since the service. My work has made me to change to a Caltex card from a BP card (Company car, they pay for the fuel) and I have been running Caltex 98 in it, and it makes the car feel like a V8. It is great stuff, better than the BP Ultimate crap it was running before. I am haappy with the performence with the car, and at 15,000 KMs, one would expect to be. Good luck with your issues Swainey.

-Andrew

[johnydep]

I have had no problems with my car since the service. My work has made me to change to a BP card from a Caltex card (Company car, they pay for the fuel) and I have been running Caltex 98 in it, and it makes the car feel like a V8. It is great stuff, better than the BP Ultimate crap it was running before. I am haappy with the performence with the car, and at 15,000 KMs, one would expect to be. Good luck with your issues Swainey.

-Andrew

You were using BP Ultima, but now your using Caltex Vortex, but you have a BP card. Is this what you mean?

I have recently been using the Caltex Premium fuel, because of a huge price difference, and have also found a more noticeable power increase with the Vortex compared to the Ultima.

[Paxton]

You were using BP Ultima, but now your using Caltex Vortex, but you have a BP card. Is this what you mean?

I have recently been using the Caltex Premium fuel, because of a huge price difference, and have also found a more noticeable power increase with the Vortex compared to the Ultima.

SOrry about that, I was obviously typing in a hurry, and I miss-wrote the companies. I did another edit, so it FINALLY reads correctly. To clarify, I have a Caltex Card, which is in place of a BP card.

Is it correct for me to assume that the Caltex fuel is better than the BP fuel? From the way my Terri is going, I have come to that conclusion.


-Andrew

[Red Territory]

apparently there is a new ecu flash that will fix the pinging and stalling in the Territory

[johnydep]

SOrry about that, I was obviously typing in a hurry, and I miss-wrote the companies. I did another edit, so it FINALLY reads correctly. To clarify, I have a Caltex Card, which is in place of a BP card.

Is it correct for me to assume that the Caltex fuel is better than the BP fuel? From the way my Terri is going, I have come to that conclusion.


-Andrew

I checked the Caltex website and they list two premium fuels, a 95 Octane & a 98 Octane. Not all states have the 98 yet.

I noticed a difference with the 95, which is also the same as Ampol Gold Premium. http://www.msdsonline.com.au/msds/msdsview.asp?SynonymCode=IA0HT00&msds_format=00&in_langcode=&uselogo=TRUE
http://www.caltex.com.au/products_oil_listing.asp?section=1

Maybe it depends on the combustion process, fuels burn differently; the higher the octane, the slower the burn. And some engine may prefer a differen burn rate.
I definitely notice a difference when using Premium fuel over Standard, but I notice more power with the Vortex over the Ultima. Whereas my previous vehicle was a Turbo, and that loved the BP Ultima.

Cool weather also makes a huge difference in power, on a cool day my Terri feels like it has a different engine in it.

[Ouzo]

on a cool day my Terri feels like it has a different engine in it.
I knew there was reason why I live in Hobart!

[new2ford]

I knew there was reason why I live in Hobart!
I'll be able to test that out next month when I transfer my Terri from the tropics of Sydney to refrigerated Tassie. Last time I went to Tassie everybody was driving like crazy - that must be why! Seriously, its always been a commonplace that an engine picks up in the cool of the night compared to daytime performance.

I've never had pinging in my Terri - I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong!

[paulvdb]

apparently there is a new ecu flash that will fix the pinging and stalling in the Territory
Can anyone back this??? RATT - is there one available?? If so I'll jump on it. I'm a bit annoyed about my car pinging all over the place - even though I'm running optimax (Shell card so I'm stuck)

[Paul Coulton]

hey im experiencing the same problems with my Ford Falcon LPG taxi. Pinging and stalling when braking. Does anybody have any solutions?

[johnydep]

hey im experiencing the same problems with my Ford Falcon LPG taxi. Pinging and stalling when braking. Does anybody have any solutions?

Hi Paul & welcome to the forums.

Probably best to ask the guys here Ford 6's (http://www.fordforums.com.au/forumdisplay.php?f=15) & LPG Forums (http://www.fordforums.com.au/forumdisplay.php?f=71)

If the engine is stalling & oinging, my guess is a vacuum/air leak; check the intake system, snorkel & manifold bolts.

Good luck

[GrantX]

Hi Guys. My first posting.
I have had pinging recently. Terri has done 10,000k. I have had it happen at low revs going up a hill. The Auto was in second. I solved the problem by shifting down a gear, increasing the revs. The pinging turned into galloping horses, and away she went. Under load, keep the revs up.

[Jock]

Welcome to the forum GrantX!
OK, having read this born again thread, what are the classic symptoms of pinging in the Territory? I remember it was preignition rattling through the valve train in the olden days but what are the signs? audible rattling or a physical sensation passed on to the occupants?? Reason I ask? I have had a problem (since November) with my T where there's a sort of a miss in the engine... it's there up hill & down dale power on & off but with premium unleaded it's gone. That and a next day fix on the ECU getting rid of a 'retard' setting. I am hopeful the problem has been fixed regardless of the octane with the ECU thing but won't know for certain till I run on Reg. ULP next fill.
Thanks chaps!
Jock

[GalaxyAU]

Have had what I refered to as a bried diesel type rattle form my 05 AWD Ghia for some time - finaly managed to track down that it only happens when the AirCon is operating and am accelerating from a stationary postition (reasonably quickly) - the illustrious Ford dealer has advised me that this is pinging (to stop it would require retarding the ignition that would affect the performance and consumption) - just another one of those standard Terry noises the dealer says I will have to live with. So it looks like (acording to the dealer) pre-ignition is a common, known problem with Terries.

[GOF]

That seems wierd - surely the computer would have shown up a fault code for that! How did they miss it previously? O2 sensors fail on all sorts of cars (normally a bit later than 10,000 of course) and seem to be easy to test. Maybe someone can post the normal voltage range for the sensor and a pin-out so that we can check them ourselves.

The quickest way to stuff the sensors is to use silastic anywhere under the bonnet. The fumes get sucked into the engine and after burning form a layer on the EGO sensor which slows it's reaction time at best or at worst stops it from working completly. Also be very careful when checking it with a multi meter as the voltage on the ohms range will burn it out, it will only give out a voltage when it is up to working temperature (from memory about 350 deg C). Jacar have a kit which gives a 10 segment LED bargraph display of the voltage output from the EGO sensor, it can be left connected permenently, if it flickers up and down rapidly every thing is sweet, it should go rich on acceleration and lean on deceleration. If the sensor has been poisioned by silicon it will either respond slowly or not at all when you nail it.

[davids]

Yes, me too. Pinging mainly in 2nd and 3rd.
Using regular unleaded. Now switched to premium and will give it a few tanks to clean out. I'm told that Australian regular unleaded is poor quality.
I also brought the Territory (2007 Ghia rwd) back to the dealer who firstly told me that this was unusual then suggested premium. The dealer told me that the "computer software" was outdated and they updated it.
Is this true? Would it make any difference?
I'm going for a long drive on the weekend and will see if there is any difference on return.

[Paxton]

Sheesh. Old thread. Ford never did fix the ping. It went to BMW pinging its little brain off.

For the SY owners, your computer is lightyears ahead of the one in BA/SX, so it is surprising to me that your car Pings. Very surprising.

I don't even have the car any more...

[allypally]

The software "upgrades" are generally to fine tune small known issues. It is possible that one of those fixes was to the spark advance or air/fuel mix, or even the sensor levels, to address pinging.
Only true analysis, is to put the car on a dyno and see what is happening in real time.
The car 'should not need' premium fuel to prevent pinging.
A few members have complained about pinging, but personally, or fortunately, I have not suffered from this problem. Maybe I am more advanced than others?

[johnydep]

The software "upgrades" are generally to fine tune small known issues. It is possible that one of those fixes was to the spark advance or air/fuel mix, or even the sensor levels, to address pinging.
Only true analysis, is to put the car on a dyno and see what is happening in real time.
The car 'should not need' premium fuel to prevent pinging.
A few members have complained about pinging, but personally, or fortunately, I have not suffered from this problem. Maybe I am more advanced than others?

Don't you retard to stop pinging? :evillaugh

I get a very occassional ping, no idea why. The engine still goes like a rocket, uses no oil and is very quiet.

When someone finds the cure, let us know.

[bally253]

I've had a pinging issue since new (2006 SY). Now has done 30,000 km.
Been reported to the dealer numerous times. Each time, no fault codes. Techs have played with the computer/timing/fuel settings but I still have the problem.

Sometimes worse than others but it is always there-often under only mild-moderate load. Up a gentle hill, it will sometimes ping continuously. It also pings when changing up a gear.

Been advised to run higher octane fuel, rather than standard 91. I've done that for 6+ tanks but not convinced it helped much (if at all). Besides, according to Ford, this engine is designed to run on standard and should not require 95 or 98 fuel.
My concern is that the engine will suffer damage-and I have explained this to the Ford service Dept.

At a bit of a loss as what else I can do.

[colloz]

Here's what pinging is. It should be avoided at all times and can be very destructive, pistons through blocks, bent rods, holes in pistons, broken crank-shaft, etc... Even mild knocking is doing some damage such as: Increased pressure applied through the piston, into the con-rod and then into the crank-shaft, pushing oil away from the crank bearings, big-end bearings and small-end bearings, making it more likely for metal to metal contact.
I haven't had any pinging problems with my SY Territory, but I only use 95PULP, I mostly ran on LPG which has a higher octane rating again.

When unburned fuel/air mixture beyond the boundary of the flame front is heated and pressurized by the advancing flame front for a certain length of time, detonation occurs. It is caused by an instantaneous, explosive ignition of pockets of fuel/air mixture. The cylinder pressure rises sharply beyond its design limits, and if it is allowed to persist, detonation will damage or destroy engine parts. The deleterious mechanisms range from particle wear caused by moderate knocking, to holes punched through the piston or head caused by serious knocking.

Detonation can be prevented by the use of a fuel with higher octane rating, enriching the fuel/air ratio, reducing peak cylinder pressure by increasing the engine revolutions (e.g., shifting to a lower gear), decreasing the manifold pressure by reducing the throttle opening, or reducing the load on the engine. Because pressure and temperature are strongly linked, knock can also be attenuated by controlling peak combustion chamber temperatures at the engineering level by compression ratio reduction, exhaust gas recirculation, appropriate calibration of the engine's ignition timing schedule, and careful design of the engine's combustion chambers and cooling system. As an aftermarket solution, a water injection system can be employed to reduce combustion chamber peak temperatures and thus suppress detonation.

[colloz]

I've had a pinging issue since new (2006 SY). Now has done 30,000 km.
Been reported to the dealer numerous times. Each time, no fault codes. Techs have played with the computer/timing/fuel settings but I still have the problem.

Sometimes worse than others but it is always there-often under only mild-moderate load. Up a gentle hill, it will sometimes ping continuously. It also pings when changing up a gear.

Been advised to run higher octane fuel, rather than standard 91. I've done that for 6+ tanks but not convinced it helped much (if at all). Besides, according to Ford, this engine is designed to run on standard and should not require 95 or 98 fuel.
My concern is that the engine will suffer damage-and I have explained this to the Ford service Dept.

At a bit of a loss as what else I can do.

Unfortunately you have to twist their arm a bit.
This is the technique I used with my last car, 2003 BA XR6. Had a vibration problem.
Book your Terra in for the ping problem and request a loan car, I got BA XT sedan off the lot. if you have to, to get a loan car you will be happy with for awhile.
When you go and pick your car up, test drive it before you hand back the loan car keys. If your happy return keys.
If not, tell them to keep trying till they fix it and drive off in the loan car before they realise you still have it.
When they call to say they have fixed it, do same thing. If you have another car, arrive in that. They can't take that off you if problem isn't fixed.

My problem went on for months before I resorted to these measures and still I found the problem myself. Check these original service reports.