View Full Version : is the dealer delivery charge a rip-off??
After going through these forums during some slack time, I noticed that many if not most of the problems reported here should have been picked up during pre-delivery. In my case the bad wheel alligment, and busted trim, in another case a hole in the body etc etc.
I was charged $1200 dealer delivery, and not spotting those faults during teh pre-delivery inspection makes me feel like I've been ripped off.
What is the general feeling about this? should ford be addressing this as after all it is Ford's last QA backstop and if done correctly it should catch all the obvious issues and thus at least give the impression of much better build quality.
In my case the wheel alligment was apparent as soon as I drove out, and the busted trim could be seen easily as soon as you tried to get in the rear door. Getting a car like this gives the immediate impression of "nice car, shame about the poor build quality, oh well it's a local build car cant' expect any better. If the dealer had done their job and fixed those issues before the car was delivered, the impression would have been wow fantastic car, and finally the local build quality is as good as the europeans/japaneese etc. Massive difference in both customer satisfaction and product image.
anyone from ford reading this and care to comment?
johnydep
04-05-05, 10:49 PM
I would like to see a list of checks which require ticking off as the pre-delivery checks are done, that way, once the new owner picks up the vehicle if any faults are found that should have been picked up at the PDC a full refund can be demanded.
new2ford
05-05-05, 01:09 AM
I have to say to the credit of Power Ford at Castle Hill that they showed me the check list on top of knocking off the dealer delivery charge in the original price negotiations (most dealers I went to before that wouldn't budge on that).
paulvdb
05-05-05, 08:09 AM
I have to say to the credit of Power Ford at Castle Hill that they showed me the check list on top of knocking off the dealer delivery charge in the original price negotiations (most dealers I went to before that wouldn't budge on that).
Same dealer and same check list. Whilst I was very happy with that experience it would be nice to see a more detailed check list to prove that they actually do check wheel alignment etc. A wheel alignment doesn't really take all that long on the right equipment.
I'd still be up for filling out an online form and getting the car straight from the factory.
Bypass all the dealer crap and costs all together.
paulvdb
05-05-05, 01:30 PM
I'd still be up for filling out an online form and getting the car straight from the factory.
Bypass all the dealer crap and costs all together.
The "dealer crap" helps if you have a problem. If you could get the car direct from the factory who'd pitch-in for you if things went astray? The factory doesn't have that sort of organisation in place - hence the need for dealers.
The dealers are performing a buffering process between Ford and it's customers. You really need that buffer one way or another - whether they're Ford people or 3rd party.
If the factory has their act together quality control wise things don't go astray.
For my money, I don't reckon the dealer buffer is worth what it costs. I'd take the risk and order direct if the option was there.
As for helping with repairs/warranty etc I reckon they do as much damage as they repair each time they touch the car plus there's the inconvenience and hassle factor. Again, give me the choice and I'd do it myself.
The factory might even get the benefit of dealing direct with the customer rather than have the feedback filtered through the dealer network.
It seems a few people have the wrong idea about the Pre-Delivery checks. Usually 2 should be done - 1 by the mechanics, the 2nd by the owner of the new vehicle.
PD Checks are the final way of ensuring satisfaction with the vehicle before it becomes yours officially. All too often they aren't taken seriously, or in the haste to get the new car's keys and drive away, people don't check things clear enough.
PD Check is the time to be a real pain in the ass. It is the time to make sure that EVERY last little detail is correct, and if not it is the time to point it out and make sure it is listed so it is repaired either on the spot or at the next service etc.
I think a lot of people expect the dealer to do this, and they do, but remember it is your car not theirs, they wont be as fussy as you. This is also why they give you the chance to check it for yourself, and you should jump at it. If they dont offer - ask!
Here's a list of things to check on any vehicle before you drive it away:
Exterior:
* Paint - look at the car in different lights, from different angles etc. Pay particular attention to paint round the edges of doors etc etc, look for any marks or blemishes. Point them out if you find them.
* Body Panels - do they all look straight? Are they lined up properly? Are there any dents or marks in them?
* Fit and finish - does the car look finished and properly done?
* Wheels and tyres - Any marks in the wheels? No nicks or scratches?
Interior:
* Seats - Any loose trim or material? Any marks, rips or tears?
* Trim panels - are they fitted properly? Do they rattle or wobble if you move the door?
* Dash - any creaks or rattles or odd looking gaps?
Engine Bay:
* Does it look clean and tidy? Any spills or leaks? (you wouldnt think so!)
* If anything doesnt look right - ask!
Boot/Cargo Space:
* Is the door/boot easy to open and close? Does it creak or squeak?
* Are there any signs of leaks or poorly fitted parts?
* Is there a boot liner? (keep in mind this is an accessory you'll have to pay for)
Suspension:
* Try pushing down on the car, i.e. rock it from side to side by pushing the side of it, try opening the door and pushing down hard with your body weight. Any unusual noises or squeaks?
Accessories:
* Do you have everything you ordered? (check your invoice)
* Is it in good condition? Have they been opened/used before?
* If they have been fitted for you, have they been fitted properly? Do they sit flush/not make noise/not look out of place?
That's a rough guide of what to check, but basically look at everything you can and query anything that stands out to you before you sign the paperwork.
If issues arise with the car or any part of it - write it down. Write down the date, time, speed you were doing if driving, what it was and where you think the problem is (i.e. 'noise in right front' etc) - don't just take it back and say 'oh there is a noise'. The more info you can give the better odds you have of it being fixed.
johnydep
05-05-05, 03:39 PM
That is a good list.
My problem though, was a rattle that no one could find, I eventually found it by chance, the felt pad that the metal part of the seat belt rests on was missing.
There is no way I could have found that felt missing before it became mine "officially". Can you really cancel the deal at pick up if you find a problem with the vehicle?
The other problem was wheel alignment. The Service Manager told me that PD is supposed to check this, do they?
I just think that having a comprehensive check list for the buyer to look over would give more confidence in a job done properly, and also for us to see what PD is, as well as having something to fall back on.
It seems a few people have the wrong idea about the Pre-Delivery checks. Usually 2 should be done - 1 by the mechanics, the 2nd by the owner of the new vehicle.
PD Checks are the final way of ensuring satisfaction with the vehicle before it becomes yours officially. All too often they aren't taken seriously, or in the haste to get the new car's keys and drive away, people don't check things clear enough.
PD Check is the time to be a real pain in the ass. It is the time to make sure that EVERY last little detail is correct, and if not it is the time to point it out and make sure it is listed so it is repaired either on the spot or at the next service etc.
I think a lot of people expect the dealer to do this, and they do, but remember it is your car not theirs, they wont be as fussy as you. This is also why they give you the chance to check it for yourself, and you should jump at it. If they dont offer - ask!
Here's a list of things to check on any vehicle before you drive it away:
Exterior:
* Paint - look at the car in different lights, from different angles etc. Pay particular attention to paint round the edges of doors etc etc, look for any marks or blemishes. Point them out if you find them.
* Body Panels - do they all look straight? Are they lined up properly? Are there any dents or marks in them?
* Fit and finish - does the car look finished and properly done?
* Wheels and tyres - Any marks in the wheels? No nicks or scratches?
Interior:
* Seats - Any loose trim or material? Any marks, rips or tears?
* Trim panels - are they fitted properly? Do they rattle or wobble if you move the door?
* Dash - any creaks or rattles or odd looking gaps?
Engine Bay:
* Does it look clean and tidy? Any spills or leaks? (you wouldnt think so!)
* If anything doesnt look right - ask!
Boot/Cargo Space:
* Is the door/boot easy to open and close? Does it creak or squeak?
* Are there any signs of leaks or poorly fitted parts?
* Is there a boot liner? (keep in mind this is an accessory you'll have to pay for)
Suspension:
* Try pushing down on the car, i.e. rock it from side to side by pushing the side of it, try opening the door and pushing down hard with your body weight. Any unusual noises or squeaks?
Accessories:
* Do you have everything you ordered? (check your invoice)
* Is it in good condition? Have they been opened/used before?
* If they have been fitted for you, have they been fitted properly? Do they sit flush/not make noise/not look out of place?
That's a rough guide of what to check, but basically look at everything you can and query anything that stands out to you before you sign the paperwork.
If issues arise with the car or any part of it - write it down. Write down the date, time, speed you were doing if driving, what it was and where you think the problem is (i.e. 'noise in right front' etc) - don't just take it back and say 'oh there is a noise'. The more info you can give the better odds you have of it being fixed.
If the factory has their act together quality control wise things don't go astray.
For my money, I don't reckon the dealer buffer is worth what it costs. I'd take the risk and order direct if the option was there.
As for helping with repairs/warranty etc I reckon they do as much damage as they repair each time they touch the car plus there's the inconvenience and hassle factor. Again, give me the choice and I'd do it myself.
The factory might even get the benefit of dealing direct with the customer rather than have the feedback filtered through the dealer network.
If the factory direct option was there I would also use it. Having said that I really think that the dealer service network adds value. Sure there are the rogue ones that break more than they fix, but in the main they try hard and give a good result. The dealer where I bought from added zero value, negative if include the lack of pre-delivery, but on the plus side their service department has been excellent. Far better in fact than the Holden service I used to go to before.
So what ford needs is independant ford-branded (franchised?) service centers and a factory direct option for those that want it.
Or some method of ensuring the dealers actually do something, like a proper pre-delivery check, and have penalties in place for failing to comply.
It seems a few people have the wrong idea about the Pre-Delivery checks. Usually 2 should be done - 1 by the mechanics, the 2nd by the owner of the new vehicle.
PD Checks are the final way of ensuring satisfaction with the vehicle before it becomes yours officially. All too often they aren't taken seriously, or in the haste to get the new car's keys and drive away, people don't check things clear enough.
PD Check is the time to be a real pain in the ass. It is the time to make sure that EVERY last little detail is correct, and if not it is the time to point it out and make sure it is listed so it is repaired either on the spot or at the next service etc.
I think a lot of people expect the dealer to do this, and they do, but remember it is your car not theirs, they wont be as fussy as you. This is also why they give you the chance to check it for yourself, and you should jump at it. If they dont offer - ask!
I have to disagree with you on that b2f. I am paying a dealer to do a check and they should do it or not get paid for it. As an analogy let's say you took your car in for a replacement head gasket. Would you expect to get out the torque wrench and chek it was tightened down correctly before you picked it up? or you expect to check if the oil was changed.
I am paying for a service and that service is to check there are no obvious defects in the car before it gets delivered. If the car gets delivered with defects, then the service has not been carried out and the kindest I can say about that is that it's fraud. In my case I spotted the busted trim and noted it, just chose not to have it fixed until the 3000 service, and the wheel alligment fault was obvious as soon as I drove out of the dealership.
When a car is presented to a customer for delivery, I believe the customer has an expectation that a more experienced person has checked the car and has found no issues. Otherwise how can the 1200 dealer delivery fee be justified?
Any delers or ex-dealers here care to comment on this.
My favourite topic.
Dealer delivery is a fee that helps contribute towards keeping the dealership open and paying the workers. In a nutshell that's what it is.
But all these issues regarding things not being right at the time of delivery is not a good thing. Some are dealers are good some are bad, but remember mistakes can happen.
To Pre-Delivery, after a while every car looks the same and things may be missed as it can all become too routine for some. That is why PD is actually a 4 step process and really has nothing to do with the cost of the vehicle being shipped.
Step 1: Vehicle arrives via a truck and once unloaded recieving/ PD staff check the car over for faults/ damage and making sure all tangibles such as log books, keys, wheels covers etc are there.
Step 2: Once the vehicle is sold, a PD prep. order is sent to PD for a "PD and clean" (which involves a road test), and the fittment of options and accesories. It is here where any faults should be spotted and rectified in the best possible way. This includes wheel alignments etc.
Step 3: Once the car is prepared by PD including fittment of options, the sales person should then give the car a thorough inspection. And ideally this should be done some hours if not a day before it is due to be picked up. If a fault is spotted here and can be fixed without drama then it should be done immediately. If required notify customer, especially if a delay is expected.
Step 4: Customer is given the opportunity to inspect the car and in the majority of cases everything is fine. If not, the customer can opt to take the car as is and have the fault rectified at a later date, a "non-conformance" form should be filled out and signed by the customer and salesperson. If the customer opts to leave the car then all efforts should be put towards getting the car to the customer asap once a problem is sorted.
In a perfect world it would all work in harmony, but in some cases it won't. The best way to overcome issues before they get out of hand is for salespeople and customers to communicate regularly, which in itself is a whole other topic.
Can you really cancel the deal at pick up if you find a problem with the vehicle?
I doubt it and I think it would be a bit of a stupid exercise to do so - you would lose a percentage of your downpayment as well as whatever the dealership takes to cover the costs of obtaining the vehicle for you.
DanielXR8
07-05-05, 01:42 AM
So what ford needs is independant ford-branded (franchised?) service centers and a factory direct option for those that want it.
Oh yes please. I really, really want that option. I can only imagine many others do too.
Daniel
I tend to think that more than a 'factory direct' option, Ford just needs to regain a little more control in their dealer network. Essentially, dealers are tested, certified, given a list of criteria to fulfill and maintain and off they go on their own. This is where you get dodgy and greedy dealers giving the Blue Oval a bad name because it's what they sell.
Factory Direct car buying would in point of fact be a logistical nightmare. What happens if you live in SA but your car is coming from Broadmeadows? What happens if it's not quite right or something is not as you ordered - who do you take it to? The dealer network is a great idea and I am quite confident in saying that it will never change from that - what does need to hange is some of the dealers themselves, and the criteria they need to fulfill in order to become (and remain) a certified Ford dealer.
johnydep
07-05-05, 12:51 PM
....
Factory Direct car buying would in point of fact be a logistical nightmare. What happens if you live in SA but your car is coming from Broadmeadows? What happens if it's not quite right or something is not as you ordered - who do you take it to? The dealer network is a great idea and I am quite confident in saying that it will never change from that - what does need to hange is some of the dealers themselves, and the criteria they need to fulfill in order to become (and remain) a certified Ford dealer.
It would be exactly the same as purchasing from the internet is now, just a bigger version.
10 years ago people where scared to even buy corn flakes, now people purchase just about everything, such as new furniture & computers direct from the manufacturer, used cars, etc.
new car sales over the internet will come, it just a matter of time. There will be problems, but they will be sorted out just like every other new way of doing something has.
professorsabre
07-05-05, 12:59 PM
So how come nobody picked up the power steering fluid leak all over the engine bay and puddle under the car when I pick up my new car. Oh and also my missing options and missing door sills, scratched paint where they obviously scraped off my door sills and gave them to someonelse and the wait for missing options.
Dealer Delivery Charge, well with my dealer it just went straight into their profits.
So how come nobody picked up the power steering fluid leak all over the engine bay and puddle under the car when I pick up my new car. Oh and also my missing options and missing door sills, scratched paint where they obviously scraped off my door sills and gave them to someonelse and the wait for missing options.
Dealer Delivery Charge, well with my dealer it just went straight into their profits.
Probably the same reason nobody picked up a piece of trim hanging half off (spoted it before I got to within 10 Ft of the car, and it was definetly badly fitted from the factory) and nobody picked up the wheel alligment so bad the steering wheel was about 20 degrees turned in the straight ahead position. No matter how many cars you see obvious faults should be spotted. non-obvious faults like a loose heat shield rattling after 300 k's I can believe and have no problem that they did not get picked up at pre-delivery, and thus I haven't even mentioned it.
BMW and Merceded offer a deal where you can pick up your new car from the factory, Have a guided tour of the factory, drive it around Europe and then have it shipped back to Aus. (If you have that kind of money that is). If ford offered the same king of deal, I would definetly go for it, especially if it meant I did not have to talk to or deal with a ford dealer directly. And that kind of deal coupled with totally independant, i.e. no sales dealership attached, service department would be heaven.
Interesting point about buying a car over the internet. I was living in the US until Dec 31 last year and wanted to have cars available the day we returned. I made my decision on which cars we were after around July last year and negotiated the best price using e-mail with about 8 dealers for each car (one Ford, one Honda) from the US, before we arrived back and never actually spoke to the Honda dealer. The first time I ever met the Honda dealer was the day we landed back in Australia and took delivery of the car. I happened to know the Ford dealer but the situation would have been the same as the Honda if another dealer had given me a better deal. I could have just as easily bought the car direct form Ford or Honda, as long as I knew I was getting a good deal.
After going through these forums during some slack time, I noticed that many if not most of the problems reported here should have been picked up during pre-delivery. In my case the bad wheel alligment, and busted trim, in another case a hole in the body etc etc.
I was charged $1200 dealer delivery, and not spotting those faults during teh pre-delivery inspection makes me feel like I've been ripped off.
What is the general feeling about this? should ford be addressing this as after all it is Ford's last QA backstop and if done correctly it should catch all the obvious issues and thus at least give the impression of much better build quality.
In my case the wheel alligment was apparent as soon as I drove out, and the busted trim could be seen easily as soon as you tried to get in the rear door. Getting a car like this gives the immediate impression of "nice car, shame about the poor build quality, oh well it's a local build car cant' expect any better. If the dealer had done their job and fixed those issues before the car was delivered, the impression would have been wow fantastic car, and finally the local build quality is as good as the europeans/japaneese etc. Massive difference in both customer satisfaction and product image.
anyone from ford reading this and care to comment?
You shouldn't have to do this but most motoring clubs offer a pre purchase delivery inspection service.
You'd think tho that you wouldn't have to inspect a brand new car.
Wednesday
14-05-05, 01:08 AM
We just picked up our TX RWD Territory last week. We asked to see the Pre-delivery inspection but they said it wasn't available. They said we could see it at the 3,000km inspection as it would be on record at the service centre. The dealer did say it was a good idea and would suggest to his manager that it was made available to all new car purchasers.
The only thing we've found is that they didn't wind up one window all the way before tinting, and therefore there is about a half centimetre strip of untinted window when the passenger front window is wound up. This has been pointed out and noted and will be rectified at the 3000km service (we could have got it done straight away, but didn't want to be without the car, when it could be done same time as the service).
I usually totally discount dealer delivery. When 'negotiating', I usually remove the dealer delivery altogether, and half the options, and then I have a figure that i can start to work on... I think 'dealer delivery' is a bunch of crap, and I definitely I don't think there is anyhing they can do that's worth $1600 to $1800.
Yea, i agree with EVERYTHING you are all saying... i got accessories ordered on my car... only to pick up a car with no log books, no spare key, no optioned 16" alloys, no euro numberplates, no tint and no floor mats.... where was the predelivery check?!?!?!
Not to mention being called twice saying that the car was ready, which in fact it wasnt. Given a date when i bought the car, only to be told that car had now been purchased (on the day i bought it... the computer screen said they had 3 in my colour)... Ford needs help with their service and predelivery check in my opinion...
TerritoryLover
15-05-05, 10:47 PM
I think the dealer delivery fee is such a scam. The profit margin should be in the negotiated price of the car. End of story. I know that they waive this fee for fleet management/lease companies if there are enough cars being ordered - so it is only poor old retail punters who pay in the end.
If the delivery fee isn't listed, which is rare, then it is factored in to the price of the car.
The poor old retail punters don't always pay because if a car has a retail margin of $3000 as an example and the dealer charge is $1395 then the total margin is $4395. Now of that amount the customer may receive a discount of $3500 which represents a negatitve <$500> on the car itself (this is the margin salespeople get paid from), but only a $895 profit in total due to the dealer charge. This sale is probably worth only $50 to a salesperson as that is usually the minimum amount they get paid on, and that's before tax.
That $895 has to pay the says rep his/ her wage, commission, car allowance or similar, pre-delivery, energy bills etc and all while keeping the place open and keeping everyone in a job.
Pre-delivery staff have to be kept in the loop by the sales rep so things aren't rushed and the job has to be done 100%. This is where the problem lies, the 100% effort. The salesperson has to keep track of their cars and check them over. It's easy for me as my PD department is a short walk from my desk so mistakes are picked up way before a customer picks the car up. But what mistakes do occur are the result of simple human error or laziness. But I think people really exadurate how bad PD departments are, they aren't miracle workers but most of the time everything is perfect.
Laminge
16-05-05, 11:53 AM
Thanks for explaining that Ratt
I always thought it was a scam until a couple years back when I sat down with my sales guy and ask to see their purchase price and worked on it from there
You really cannot believe the condition some of these cars are delivered in too, dust, crap and bird droppings.
I have no doubt that most of the cost is gone in detailing the car.
Twisted
16-05-05, 12:30 PM
I watched a guy delivering cars to Westpoint Ford a couple of weeks back. He went in and got his papers or whatever signed then drove the cars off the truck. He drove them down that quick that 3 scraped their front bumpers coming off the ramp and he drove one into a concrete block on the ground at the end of a parking bay. It made a hude crack noise and a really really bad sounding scrape when he backed it off. He then jumped in the truck and took off. Whoever ordered an Envi XR6 NA from Westpoint and picked it up 2 weeks ago would definately hope that bumper had been replaced before they took it home!
Normal procedure is that the cars get checked in by receiving or PD. The driver has an inspection form which he hands over to receiving upon his arrival. If there is damage the car is still dropped off and the driver signs a form acknowledging the damage had occured either before of during delivery to the dealer. Damage is not common it's more the filth that some cars have on them while they are being driven to the dealer especially interstate.
If the delivery fee isn't listed, which is rare, then it is factored in to the price of the car.
The poor old retail punters don't always pay because if a car has a retail margin of $3000 as an example and the dealer charge is $1395 then the total margin is $4395. Now of that amount the customer may receive a discount of $3500 which represents a negatitve <$500> on the car itself (this is the margin salespeople get paid from), but only a $895 profit in total due to the dealer charge. This sale is probably worth only $50 to a salesperson as that is usually the minimum amount they get paid on, and that's before tax.
That $895 has to pay the says rep his/ her wage, commission, car allowance or similar, pre-delivery, energy bills etc and all while keeping the place open and keeping everyone in a job.
Pre-delivery staff have to be kept in the loop by the sales rep so things aren't rushed and the job has to be done 100%. This is where the problem lies, the 100% effort. The salesperson has to keep track of their cars and check them over. It's easy for me as my PD department is a short walk from my desk so mistakes are picked up way before a customer picks the car up. But what mistakes do occur are the result of simple human error or laziness. But I think people really exadurate how bad PD departments are, they aren't miracle workers but most of the time everything is perfect.
I understand that, however my point is that the PD is portrayed as a service and that service is that the dealer "checks over the car to ensure there are no visible or obvious defects before delivery to the customer". This was stated to me by several dealers while I was purchasing. In my case at least there is no eveidence of this service even being attempted.
How much better would it be for customer relations if this charge was to dissapear (i.e. become part of the profit margin and thus invisible to the customer) and not be mentioned at all. Then the customer (me) does not have an expectation of getting a (very expensive) service and is therefore not overly p*d off when it does not happen.
And also the stuff I and others have mentioned on this forum is not things like detailing, which cost money, but simple stuff like actually looking at the car and taking it for a drive around the block.
Picture the following two scenarios and see which one you prefer:
1. you get a call that the car is ready and arrange to pick up in 5 days. You arrive at the dealership, hand in your trade in, your new car gets driven to the front and the first thing you notice is a bit of trim hanging off it. Salesperson looks unconcerned with a comment to take it to service and it will be fixed up. You then get in to drive off and find the wheel alligment is way off.
now for 2. you get a call that the car is ready and arrange to pick up in 5 days. During that five days, or even on the day of pickup, the saleperson says, "hey mate we found a couple of small probs with the car and are fixing them, you can have the car now or wait a couple of days till it's all fixed"
If I could find any dealer that did 2, I would be a customer for life.
Mechan1k
16-05-05, 03:32 PM
So how come nobody picked up the power steering fluid leak all over the engine bay and puddle under the car when I pick up my new car. Oh and also my missing options and missing door sills, scratched paint where they obviously scraped off my door sills and gave them to someonelse and the wait for missing options.
Dealer Delivery Charge, well with my dealer it just went straight into their profits.
I had the same power steer leak ... was a rubber O-ring ... found it the next day after driving it home ... reversed it out the next morning and found power steer fuild everywhere ... and steering was grinding as well.
gz1 I agree with you completely. But honestly the situation usually is that if a problem has been spotted then the salesperson attempts to rectify it and inform the customer if there is to be a delay.
With regards to wheel alignment the cars come in already aligned and it would almost be impossible to put every car through service to get realigned and delivered on time. This puts more of an onus on Ford to take care of the wheel alignment to the best of their abilities.
XA-Coupe
16-05-05, 06:18 PM
now for 2. you get a call that the car is ready and arrange to pick up in 5 days. During that five days, or even on the day of pickup, the saleperson says, "hey mate we found a couple of small probs with the car and are fixing them, you can have the car now or wait a couple of days till it's all fixed"
If I could find any dealer that did 2, I would be a customer for life.
That's exactly what happened when I picked the XR8 up... during the PD they weren't happy with the bonnet paint so it took an extra few days for it to be sent off and resprayed. When I got it I had zero complaints.
I am in Vic and you have to look no further than the top of the page to see where I got it from.
gz1 I agree with you completely. But honestly the situation usually is that if a problem has been spotted then the salesperson attempts to rectify it and inform the customer if there is to be a delay.
With regards to wheel alignment the cars come in already aligned and it would almost be impossible to put every car through service to get realigned and delivered on time. This puts more of an onus on Ford to take care of the wheel alignment to the best of their abilities.
At least we agree on something :wavey:
I think I have not made my point clear though, these problems *should* have been spoted with the most cursory inspection. As for the wheel alligment, I certainly don't expect the dealer to individualy check each car, however if you have to wrestle with the steering wheel to keep it in it's lane I would have thought that this would ring some bells that something is amiss :doh:
P.S. when my lease runs out in 3 years time I intend to look you up and see. At the very least getting a car from a dealer that is active in the forums will almost guarantee better service than from someone that doesn't even have an email.
Cheers mate! It's not hard to listen believe me. I've been on various forums way before I started working for a dealer, so it's easy to see both sides of the coin.
Sam_Boss260
17-05-05, 09:53 AM
Hey RATT,
I'm in Brissy, and am about to order a Territory. Can you recommend anyone in particular who has a really good reputation? Victoria is a little too far for me to travel to you....
I'm in Sydney. I don't know who is good up there. Maybe some members can shed some light on that?
Sam_Boss260
17-05-05, 03:01 PM
Sorry.... Victoria, NSW... it's all south from up here !!!
MR_SIDO
17-05-05, 04:37 PM
I tend to think that more than a 'factory direct' option, Ford just needs to regain a little more control in their dealer network. Essentially, dealers are tested, certified, given a list of criteria to fulfill and maintain and off they go on their own. This is where you get dodgy and greedy dealers giving the Blue Oval a bad name because it's what they sell.
Where did you get this from back2thefutura?
Dealers are MORE than "tested, certified, given a list of criteria to fulfill and maintain and off they go on their own".
We dealers are constantly under review and certainly never are we left to our own devices. Please before you type what you think you know about the Ford dealer network, check your facts first.
Where did you get this from back2thefutura?
Dealers are MORE than "tested, certified, given a list of criteria to fulfill and maintain and off they go on their own".
We dealers are constantly under review and certainly never are we left to our own devices. Please before you type what you think you know about the Ford dealer network, check your facts first.
Sorry MR_SIDO, I can't resist replying to this. While what you say may well be true, it certainly contradicts my experience with Ford dealers. The terri is the first ford I have ever owned and it came so close to me giving up and getting an adventra that it's not funny. Actually if Holden had released their V6 a little earlier, I wouldn't be in this forum now. I went to 6 different dealers and the general attitude was one of total indifference. No returned calls (except one, and that is the one I purchased from), total lack of product knowledge etc etc. The Territory is a great car, The service department has been terrific so far, but if ford is really reviewing the dealer network as you say then this whole thing comes back to ford. And if this is the case I shure hope that someone from ford is reading this, because I relly believe that the territory can sell a lot more if the deler network is more alligned to customers. Or is it that ford is selling more Territorys than they can make and this is a deliberate effort to slow down sales?
MR_SIDO
18-05-05, 09:08 AM
I cannot comment any further on this subject, but let me say this, MOST of the Ford Dealer Network is committed to providing their customers with a very high level of service, I know we are and alot of other dealers are too. I know that there will always be unhappy customers and you hear bad stories, but you know that you will always hear 10 bad stories to 1 good one, because people do not want to hear good stories, they thrive on bad ones.
I found the sales team for my dealer to be excellent - the service team is OK but below what I was used to from Holden.
johnydep
24-05-05, 05:33 PM
I cannot comment any further on this subject, but let me say this, MOST of the Ford Dealer Network is committed to providing their customers with a very high level of service, I know we are and alot of other dealers are too. I know that there will always be unhappy customers and you hear bad stories, but you know that you will always hear 10 bad stories to 1 good one, because people do not want to hear good stories, they thrive on bad ones.
I hear what your saying, but I do want to hear good stories.
Do you?
Give us a nice feel good story about something that happened at your dealership, and see if we can get the ball rolling.
Fast forward
24-05-05, 06:24 PM
Sorry MR_SIDO, I can't resist replying to this. While what you say may well be true, it certainly contradicts my experience with Ford dealers. The terri is the first ford I have ever owned and it came so close to me giving up and getting an adventra that it's not funny. Actually if Holden had released their V6 a little earlier, I wouldn't be in this forum now. I went to 6 different dealers and the general attitude was one of total indifference. No returned calls (except one, and that is the one I purchased from), total lack of product knowledge etc etc. The Territory is a great car, The service department has been terrific so far, but if ford is really reviewing the dealer network as you say then this whole thing comes back to ford. And if this is the case I shure hope that someone from ford is reading this, because I relly believe that the territory can sell a lot more if the deler network is more alligned to customers. Or is it that ford is selling more Territorys than they can make and this is a deliberate effort to slow down sales?
Smart move not getting the Adventra. Can;t believe people even consider it .. It is ugly , dodgy and well .... real dodgy !!!!
did I say ugly ??
The market has shown this to be public opinion as well... Did you know they gave back $4000 to the initial buyers when they cut the price last year ???
In the industry they call them sale proof !! ;)
new2ford
24-05-05, 10:27 PM
Smart move not getting the Adventra. Can;t believe people even consider it .. It is ugly , dodgy and well .... real dodgy !!!!
did I say ugly ??
The market has shown this to be public opinion as well... Did you know they gave back $4000 to the initial buyers when they cut the price last year ???
In the industry they call them sale proof !! ;)
Considering the Adventra is just a Commodore on steroids Holden should blend the sales figures in with the Commodore's. It would make them feel better.
Considering the Adventra is just a Commodore on steroids Holden should blend the sales figures in with the Commodore's. It would make them feel better.
Now guys, I agree the adventra is ugly, but not as ugly as the kluger, and that sells. And quite honestly for my needs in a car if the teritory had not been available the adventra was the next best fit. Certainly a better fit than a prado or pahero. Holden really screwed up by having a V8 option only and that with a tiny tank, and it cost them dearly. But it's realy not as bad as some make out. Yes I have driven one over a week so can directly compare, and yes the teritory is much better, that's why I got a teritorry, but the second option would be the adventra. At least the holden dealers know all the options available and what goes with what, as well as what each option does. Which is more than I can say for the ford dealers.
Now guys, I agree the adventra is ugly, but not as ugly as the kluger, and that sells. And quite honestly for my needs in a car if the teritory had not been available the adventra was the next best fit. Certainly a better fit than a prado or pahero. Holden really screwed up by having a V8 option only and that with a tiny tank, and it cost them dearly. But it's realy not as bad as some make out. Yes I have driven one over a week so can directly compare, and yes the teritory is much better, that's why I got a teritorry, but the second option would be the adventra. At least the holden dealers know all the options available and what goes with what, as well as what each option does. Which is more than I can say for the ford dealers.yes the Adventra was my second choice too. Why do the words fugly and klugar sound similar?
Fast forward
25-05-05, 05:48 AM
Considering the Adventra is just a Commodore on steroids Holden should blend the sales figures in with the Commodore's. It would make them feel better.
:)
yes and to be real accurate Ford should blend sales of 2 wheel drive Terri in with Falcon wagon ;)
Fast forward
25-05-05, 05:50 AM
Now guys, I agree the adventra is ugly, but not as ugly as the kluger, and that sells. And quite honestly for my needs in a car if the teritory had not been available the adventra was the next best fit. Certainly a better fit than a prado or pahero. Holden really screwed up by having a V8 option only and that with a tiny tank, and it cost them dearly. But it's realy not as bad as some make out. Yes I have driven one over a week so can directly compare, and yes the teritory is much better, that's why I got a teritorry, but the second option would be the adventra. At least the holden dealers know all the options available and what goes with what, as well as what each option does. Which is more than I can say for the ford dealers.
Kluger is the biggest selling SUV of its size in America the biggest most competitive auto market in the world, how many Adventras are sold there ?
Mechanically and build quality wise Kluger has no rivals in it's class. Even I am man enough to admit that my Terri sure does not have the Kluger build quality.
Fast forward
25-05-05, 05:52 AM
yes the Adventra was my second choice too. Why do the words fugly and klugar sound similar?
you are nowhere !!
:embarasse
new2ford
25-05-05, 11:01 AM
:)
yes and to be real accurate Ford should blend sales of 2 wheel drive Terri in with Falcon wagon ;)
Yes I thought the 2WD Territory looked exactly like a Falcon but I couldn't put my finger on it. Does that mean sales of the 2WD Kluger (Highlander) in the US should be blended in with some other Toyota product?
Fast forward
25-05-05, 11:20 AM
Yes I thought the 2WD Territory looked exactly like a Falcon but I couldn't put my finger on it. Does that mean sales of the 2WD Kluger (Highlander) in the US should be blended in with some other Toyota product?
wow you are well read :)
David See
31-05-06, 11:41 PM
Ever since I have run a business, now for almost 20 years, I have sold a product or service for (hopefully) a profit and this profit is after ALL costs.
I have never sold something at a price and then added a "seller's fee" to the top.
Why, oh why does the dealer sell the car for a price PLUS dealer delivery? SHouldn't the price, like every other product on the Australian market, include ALL costs? I would have thought the dealer delivery would have been included as a basic cost to the sale price of the car.
What makes dealer delivery so special that it gets tacked on the end?
Is it so NOTHING eats into it and so they know that at least they will make most of that in the deal?
Is the quality of DEALER DELIVERY getting slacker because to make the most of this fee, or profit, they cut back the time they spend on the car?
I would LOVE to see an itemised bill for pre-delivery and see if the dealer can, in fact, justify the cost.
allypally
19-01-07, 08:14 PM
timewarp Gz?
Ever since I have run a business, now for almost 20 years, I have sold a product or service for (hopefully) a profit and this profit is after ALL costs.
I have never sold something at a price and then added a "seller's fee" to the top.
Why, oh why does the dealer sell the car for a price PLUS dealer delivery? SHouldn't the price, like every other product on the Australian market, include ALL costs? I would have thought the dealer delivery would have been included as a basic cost to the sale price of the car.
What makes dealer delivery so special that it gets tacked on the end?
Is it so NOTHING eats into it and so they know that at least they will make most of that in the deal?
Is the quality of DEALER DELIVERY getting slacker because to make the most of this fee, or profit, they cut back the time they spend on the car?
I would LOVE to see an itemised bill for pre-delivery and see if the dealer can, in fact, justify the cost.
Well, DD should be included in the retail price as tacking it on is just stupid. I mean, can you buy a car without it ? The manufacturers should just add $1000 onto the retail price/dealer margin and be done with this "game".
It doesn't matter what you get, the pre delivery check still isn't complete. I saw the long list for my partners VW Jetta (completed) but it didn't ask to check all the internal door handles. It was delivered with one internal door handle not only not working but wasn't even connected !
When they were in short supply, DD on a Golf GTi was quoted at up to $2995 when a standard Golf was $995 or $1295. Just a added margin - nothing less...
Of course this all pales into insignificance with BMW. The new X5 will be in short supply and accordingly, a extra $5000 is being added on (to the BMW retail pricing) for dealer delivery and so on. A base X5 Diesel is $88k so adding a extra $5k is a fair chunk really...
mrgagey
23-01-07, 09:23 AM
Well, PD didn't exist for my 06 Ghia.
Rattles in the front end, missing disk for the SatNav, Boot Liner missing, Rear right passenger window not tinted (all the rest were, go figure), Nearly No Oil in the car & the lifters failed 15kms from the dealership so the enging blew up 45mins after picking the car up, Drivers Seat not adjusting when the 2nd remote was used & a position set for the seat..
The list just went on & on & on & on.. I went to pick up my car at 1130am that day, got out of the dealership at 630pm when they assured me it was alright & then 15kms later it blew up..
I don't think PD was ever done to a satisfactory level on my car - I'd hate to see what they did/didn't to other cars they have sold....
In my honest opinion, FORD have a lot to answer for. My Ghia still plays up & its nearly a year old - they just keep fixing it & eventually when the warranty is up I will be stuck with a massive lemon!
Well, PD didn't exist for my 06 Ghia.
Mate that is just plain nasty...
Did they fit a new engine after that?
Was it a Friday or a Monday build?
bump.
Oh no not again... :boxing_sm
allypally
23-01-07, 05:41 PM
It really would be interesting to actually see the breakdown of the DD charge. I assume they include these + other charges I probably overlook:
* Actual shipping charge. Eg. Factory to dealership
* Removing wax or plastic from bodywork and seats. Incl wash if absolutely reqd.
* clipping on those parts which were left in boot and glovebox.
* Going to the registry to register the car. And adding rego label to window.
* Looking under the bonnet to ensure the motor and battery are actually there.
* Placing their dealership sticker on the rear window
* Filling out the car details in the handbook
* Adding enough fuel so that you get depart the caryard
OK. What have I left out?
It really would be interesting to actually see the breakdown of the DD charge. I assume they include these + other charges I probably overlook:
* Actual shipping charge. Eg. Factory to dealership
* Removing wax or plastic from bodywork and seats. Incl wash if absolutely reqd.
* clipping on those parts which were left in boot and glovebox.
* Going to the registry to register the car. And adding rego label to window.
* Looking under the bonnet to ensure the motor and battery are actually there.
* Placing their dealership sticker on the rear window
* Filling out the car details in the handbook
* Adding enough fuel so that you get depart the caryard
OK. What have I left out?
Screwing on the number plates with their delightful advertising surrounds.
(depending on the dealer) Adding some tasteless advert decal on the paint.
Letting someone else drive your car and then resetting the odometer....
Screwing on the number plates with their delightful advertising surrounds.
(depending on the dealer) Adding some tasteless advert decal on the paint.
Letting someone else drive your car and then resetting the odometer....
.... first thing I did was to peel the dealer stickers off & pelt the tacky plate surrounds. Why direct other people to the (in this case) fundamental orifice of a dealership or have a public recognition that you lost the plot to the extent of shopping there?
DD charges are a farce.
Jock
After going through these forums during some slack time, I noticed that many if not most of the problems reported here should have been picked up during pre-delivery. In my case the bad wheel alligment, and busted trim, in another case a hole in the body etc etc.
I was charged $1200 dealer delivery, and not spotting those faults during teh pre-delivery inspection makes me feel like I've been ripped off.
What is the general feeling about this? should ford be addressing this as after all it is Ford's last QA backstop and if done correctly it should catch all the obvious issues and thus at least give the impression of much better build quality.
In my case the wheel alligment was apparent as soon as I drove out, and the busted trim could be seen easily as soon as you tried to get in the rear door. Getting a car like this gives the immediate impression of "nice car, shame about the poor build quality, oh well it's a local build car cant' expect any better. If the dealer had done their job and fixed those issues before the car was delivered, the impression would have been wow fantastic car, and finally the local build quality is as good as the europeans/japaneese etc. Massive difference in both customer satisfaction and product image.
anyone from ford reading this and care to comment?
Yes it can be a rip off.
I cant say all places are the same, however some may not give you full value for money. For example have worked in dealerships in years gone buy, you say they charged you $1200 dollars for the service. The service department charges the new car department generally about 2 hrs labour and from places i have worked the mechanic or apprentices is given about 1 hour to complete the pre-delivery service. Therefore worst case senario is paying $1200 dollars an hour for a 1st year apprentice to check over you new vehicle.
Not all dealerships will do this as i have seen some that are very finatical and pride themselves on the quality of the new vehicles supplied. And so they should.
JBomb3000
28-01-07, 09:53 AM
Don't forget that dealer delivery also includes the cost of having the car actually delivered from ford to the dealers. I bought my car through employee pricing and was only charged what it actually cost the dealer as my farther did all the actual PD after hours and it was still a little under $500.
allypally
28-01-07, 11:51 AM
Don't forget that dealer delivery also includes the cost of having the car actually delivered from ford to the dealers. I bought my car through employee pricing and was only charged what it actually cost the dealer as my farther did all the actual PD after hours and it was still a little under $500.I agree, but this brings an interesting factor into it. For example, I would like to see the PD cost differences between a car delivered to a Melb buyer, as opposed to a Darwin buyer.
I understand your question. To put it simply, whether it's Darwin or Melbourne, a dealership is in the business to make money. Hence why a dealer charge exists.
MagpieMDP
30-01-07, 09:36 AM
Yes, but the delivery component to Darwin should, in theory, be far greater than that for a Melbourne dealer. Is this refelected in the actual PD charged by the different dealers?
Mike
The "Dealer delivery" is not ultimately decided by freight. Yes it is influenced by it but it won't determine whether it's $1395 or $1895. There is a "market price" for delivery fees as well. You can't try and charge $1895 when every other Ford dealer is $1395.
But once again I go to my previous statement. Dealerships, good or bad, are in the business to make money. There are good and bad salespeople in every dealership full stop. The customer has the right to go elesewhere if they think the service is bad or the dealer charge is too high.
My own income is dependant on a dealer charge hence I will defend it. It helps pay me, and the dealerships bills. It keeps it from closing down for good and keeps the employees in a job.
I hope that explains some of it.
At the end of the day you should just be looking for a driveaway price. If you are happy with the final amount who cares what part of it is the dealer delivery.
bfiipursuit
30-01-07, 11:09 AM
Dealers should definately advertise all their prices inclusive of onroads and delivery, it shits me when they dont.
At the end of the day you should just be looking for a driveaway price. If you are happy with the final amount who cares what part of it is the dealer delivery.
Agree 100% Ian. The bottom line is what REALLY counts.
bfiipursuit
30-01-07, 11:25 AM
So wheres Mowogs new Ute PDIDDY?
So wheres Mowogs new Ute PDIDDY?
Yeh where is it mate? :hatthing:
I am getting sick of driving that Barina. The one flogged to within an inch of its life by the Ming Mole...
bfiipursuit
30-01-07, 11:43 AM
I hope you ordered 18s on it!
I hope you ordered 18s on it!
Nope just the 17's
I was to busy ticking boxes to make the inside nice...
At the end of the day you should just be looking for a driveaway price. If you are happy with the final amount who cares what part of it is the dealer delivery.
That is spot on. And the whole point with this thread is not the actual ammount charged, but what the customer is suuposed to get for that charge and does not. For e.g. I have no probs paying $1200.00 as the bottom line price including that charge is what I agree to. However I do have a huge problem paying any ammount when I am told that "this is for a pre-delivery inspection" which clearly has not been done.
bfiipursuit
30-01-07, 12:12 PM
Nope just the 17's
I was to busy ticking boxes to make the inside nice...
Oh tisk tisk
the 18s look sensational on Seduce.
Maybe you need to get Mr Denmac to swap a set off another car for you :nana:
That is spot on. And the whole point with this thread is not the actual ammount charged, but what the customer is suuposed to get for that charge and does not. For e.g. I have no probs paying $1200.00 as the bottom line price including that charge is what I agree to. However I do have a huge problem paying any ammount when I am told that "this is for a pre-delivery inspection" which clearly has not been done.
And I would be very unhappy if I found out my Pre-Delivery wasnt done either.. I think maybe the thread got hijacked by other peoples agenders.
I use to be in the trade last century as dealer mechanic (Holden) I dont think the silly games that get played at dealers has changed much over time. If you can prove you didnt receive a service or goods you have paid for then a visit to your states fair trading department should fix the problem.
Oh tisk tisk
the 18s look sensational on Seduce.
Maybe you need to get Mr Denmac to swap a set off another car for you :nana:
I am over spending money on it... I just want to see it....
Yellow_Festiva
30-01-07, 12:54 PM
I think name "Pre Delivery" should be changed to "Pre-Pickup"....
When I bought my car new, the dealer kept saying "the car weill be ready for delivery in 2 weeks" etc etc,
Funny, they never "delivered' the car... I had to go pick it up.....
But funnily enough i have met people buying their first car who really assumed that their car would be delivered to their door......
allypally
30-01-07, 04:19 PM
I have heard of dealers dropping the car off at the door, or the office. But I think they got charged a pre delivery fee for it. it is a vicious cycle, isn't it?
I think you would find that (dare I say a majority of dealers?) do charge for something they are not doing. That is why, I would love to see the actual breakdown of the charge. Before I am screamed down.. I don't think all dealers do it. OK? There must be at least one honest dealer out there.
If items such as checking that doors, lights etc are working, then I would challenge that as covered under warranty. I would consider the "charge" to cover those costs passed on from ford to the dealer. Or to cover the manual labour involved in getting the car registered. What else could there be?
It would be interesting to ask Ford themselves what they feel is a pre delivery costing and give a breakdown from their perspective.
And yes. If you look at the whole buying experience as a "drive away" price, it is not so painful. After all, it is the bottom line that we are interested in. Isn't it?
I think you would find that (dare I say a majority of dealers?) do charge for something they are not doing. That is why, I would love to see the actual breakdown of the charge. Before I am screamed down.. I don't think all dealers do it. OK? There must be at least one honest dealer out there.
If items such as checking that doors, lights etc are working, then I would challenge that as covered under warranty. I would consider the "charge" to cover those costs passed on from ford to the dealer. Or to cover the manual labour involved in getting the car registered. What else could there be?
I am with you 100% about honest work for the money. And obviously not all dealers do it, due to the human element. We all make mistakes, it's just that that this just so happens to be an area we all have a concern with. Most times, like with every workplace, you have lazy careless people who may ruin an otherwise positive experience for the customer. This customer will then go and tell their friends about how the dealer forgot to fit the weathshields/ or the engine bay is filthy etc. So it then becomes a negative experience.
It would be interesting to ask Ford themselves what they feel is a pre delivery costing and give a breakdown from their perspective.
And yes. If you look at the whole buying experience as a "drive away" price, it is not so painful. After all, it is the bottom line that we are interested in. Isn't it?
Ford only build the cars only give a dealer licence to those they deam to be the ones who most likely will do a good job representing the brand. Other than that they really have little or no say on the day to day running of a dealership. They tried to run dealerships (RJV) and they failed.
But one thing I think we all agree on is the driveaway price. That is what counts.
BAWagonWheels
30-01-07, 05:27 PM
haggle like a cheapskater... some dealerships won't budge on dealer delivery. we were shopping around for my mother in laws Toyota Yaris and got different prices from several Toyota dealerships. you'll find if you do shop and haggle then you'll realise which dealership is more for you in value. and those that are profit greedy.
Elguapo
30-01-07, 06:37 PM
I think the drive away price is all that matters. I don't care how a dealer wants to allocate every thing out. I just want to know the full price for me to drive the car out of the dealership.
My recent purchase consisted of..
AWD Ghia
Window tinting
Towbar
Roof racks
rear window shades
Alloy spare
I made it quite clear to each delaer that I wasn't interested in the break down of price as all that matters to me is the final price. This gives me a playing field upon which to compare quotes. I also made it quite clear that I was only visiting them once and that this was their one and only chance to give me a good price. Only one dealer would see me a second time and that was when I came to place the order.
I knew what the full price of the car should be before I started. (RRP + options + DD+ ORC) and I set a desired price based on that.
I had already done all my research and test drives prior to this and it really was money for jam for the dealer the got my order.
I got 4 quotes from local dealers. I had quotes that verged on the ridiculous to one that eventually got my business that surprised even myself.
I pick the car up this Friday and to date I am happy with the level of service I am getting from this comparatively small dealer in Melbourne.
I got 4 quotes from local dealers. I had quotes that verged on the ridiculous to one that eventually got my business that surprised even myself.
I pick the car up this Friday and to date I am happy with the level of service I am getting from this comparatively small dealer in Melbourne.
That's the way it should be. A happy experience.
At the end of the day you should just be looking for a driveaway price. If you are happy with the final amount who cares what part of it is the dealer delivery.
I agree the driveaway price is what counts, the problem sometimes is when the things that should have been found and rectified in Pre-Delivery are not. People then think of how much money was charged for this service.
Customer satisfaction is the key, not reducing delivery costs if not done correctly.
Miss Sullivan
05-02-07, 11:21 AM
lol... Dealer delivery is a cost that involves not only the prep to have a vehicle ready for the customer, but also to have the vehicle delivered to the dealership by Ford (cost of trucking), the preparation of documentation, mechanical inspections, interior and body inspections, pre delivery vehicle set up (ie clock, radio, codes etc), detailing and also after delivery follow ups by Ford and the dealer. If you are told that the delivery fee has been waved - trust me it is in there somewhere. Surely it is in everyones best interest to have the vehicle perfect for you and it is regretable when the HUMANS working on cars do make HUMAN ERRORS! Perhaps we should invent a pre delivery robot? Hmmmm
lol... Dealer delivery is a cost that involves not only the prep to have a vehicle ready for the customer, but also to have the vehicle delivered to the dealership by Ford (cost of trucking), the preparation of documentation, mechanical inspections, interior and body inspections, pre delivery vehicle set up (ie clock, radio, codes etc), detailing and also after delivery follow ups by Ford and the dealer. If you are told that the delivery fee has been waved - trust me it is in there somewhere. Surely it is in everyones best interest to have the vehicle perfect for you and it is regretable when the HUMANS working on cars do make HUMAN ERRORS! Perhaps we should invent a pre delivery robot? Hmmmm
I would love to see the IP address of this post...
Miss Sullivan
05-02-07, 11:55 AM
lol... Just explaining the charge. Lighten up mowog ;o)
lol... Just explaining the charge. Lighten up mowog ;o)
Ok I will :hi5:
lol... Dealer delivery is a cost that involves not only the prep to have a vehicle ready for the customer, but also to have the vehicle delivered to the dealership by Ford (cost of trucking), the preparation of documentation, mechanical inspections, interior and body inspections, pre delivery vehicle set up (ie clock, radio, codes etc), detailing and also after delivery follow ups by Ford and the dealer. If you are told that the delivery fee has been waved - trust me it is in there somewhere. Surely it is in everyones best interest to have the vehicle perfect for you and it is regretable when the HUMANS working on cars do make HUMAN ERRORS! Perhaps we should invent a pre delivery robot? Hmmmm
There is a huge difference between "errors" and plain not done. Hmmmm. Go back through this thread and you will find many many times where discrepancies simply cannot be explained by the term error.:yeees:
Miss Sullivan
05-02-07, 01:25 PM
All I am saying is that obviously with any (Ford, Holden, Toyota etc etc...) used/new car things can go wrong or not be working properly, other wise there wouldn't be so many mechanics in the world - this does't mean that you have been over charged for dealer delivery. Doesn't it cost the dealer more to not have it done properly the first time and to have you go back unhappy - so in effect they are ripping themselves off by not making sure things are perfect in the first place.
All I am saying is that obviously with any (Ford, Holden, Toyota etc etc...) used/new car things can go wrong or not be working properly, other wise there wouldn't be so many mechanics in the world - this does't mean that you have been over charged for dealer delivery. Doesn't it cost the dealer more to not have it done properly the first time and to have you go back unhappy - so in effect they are ripping themselves off by not making sure things are perfect in the first place.
Things going wrong is once again different to things not being done. for e.g. look at post #55 in this thread:
Rattles in the front end, missing disk for the SatNav, Boot Liner missing, Rear right passenger window not tinted (all the rest were, go figure), Nearly No Oil in the car & the lifters failed 15kms from the dealership so the enging blew up 45mins after picking the car up, Drivers Seat not adjusting when the 2nd remote was used & a position set for the seat
or post #17
So how come nobody picked up the power steering fluid leak all over the engine bay and puddle under the car when I pick up my new car. Oh and also my missing options and missing door sills, scratched paint where they obviously scraped off my door sills and gave them to someonelse and the wait for missing options.
Dealer Delivery Charge, well with my dealer it just went straight into their profits.
these are just two examples of the PD not done.
You can stop digging now, I think you are in deep enough :evil3:
It would still be very interesting to know where Miss Sullivans IP address leads us too..
All of her/his's posts are in defence of dealers.
Miss Sullivan
05-02-07, 03:38 PM
It would still be very interesting to know where Miss Sullivans IP address leads us too..
All of her/his's posts are in defence of dealers.
Big deal where my IP address sends you... Wow what a sleuth/stalker? Last time I checked it was ok to constructively disagree without being harassed.
If you want one sided opinions why do you public post? Yes lets all agree that the world is a nasty place where all car dealers are out to rip you off. I'm a glass half full type of person myself. Best wishes.
johnydep
05-02-07, 03:42 PM
Big deal where my IP address sends you... Wow what a sleuth/stalker? Last time I checked it was ok to constructively disagree without being harassed.
If you want one sided opinions why do you public post? Yes lets all agree that the world is a nasty place where all car dealers are out to rip you off. I'm a glass half full type of person myself. Best wishes.
Welcome to the forums :eclipsee_
We're a varied bunch, that's what makes this place so much fun :Reverend:
Miss Sullivan
05-02-07, 03:46 PM
Welcome to the forums :eclipsee_
We're a varied bunch, that's what makes this place so much fun :Reverend:
Thanks Johnydep, my sentiments exactly :o)
Big deal where my IP address sends you... Wow what a sleuth/stalker? Last time I checked it was ok to constructively disagree without being harassed.
If you want one sided opinions why do you public post? Yes lets all agree that the world is a nasty place where all car dealers are out to rip you off. I'm a glass half full type of person myself. Best wishes.
I have followed some IP addresses to very interesting places in the past. You are just a little too defensive in your atttitude. If you work at a dealer or even Ford fair enough, you are trying defend your employer.
sleuth/stalker maybe maybe not, or just curious of your agenda here. It might help your case if you are a little more upfront about what your agenda is instead of trying to divert with distracting posts.
mowog, surely some people are allowed to disagree with out being interigated?
Miss Sullivan
05-02-07, 03:59 PM
I have followed some IP addresses to very interesting places in the past. You are just a little too defensive in your atttitude. If you work at a dealer or even Ford fair enough, you are trying defend your employer.
sleuth/stalker maybe maybe not, or just curious of your agenda here. It might help your case if you are a little more upfront about what your agenda is instead of trying to divert with distracting posts.
Mowog, Can't I have an opinion on the matter with out it being an agenda? The thread is realated to dealer delivery... yet you have turned it into a thread about me - un wanted flattery thank you, as I said I am on here to discuss matters relating to Fords and not my private life so lighten up.
mowog, surely some people are allowed to disagree with out being interigated?
True...
allypally
05-02-07, 06:34 PM
Ho Hummm... I thought this thread died a week or so ago.
Without wanting it to go on, let me say that although at least one dealer worker got involved (I say 'at least'), I noticed none of them offered a breakdown of their charge.
Maybe they were just embarrassed by the behaviour of other unscrupulous dealers? Or just felt non obliged to do so, which is their right. Same rights apply to those having to pay the charge, wanting to know exactly what they were paying for. After all, if it is a charge "for a service", then the failure to do that "service" is fraud. If it is a charge for stamping the book and doing some administration, then it is a steep charge.
But...that's just my opinion. My IP adress is.........available for all who make a formal request via surface mail.
It would seem this whole dealer delivery issues has touched a few raw nerves. Let me re-state for me its about the bottom line drive away price.
However if part of that cost is a service I have paid for I expect that service to be done, and done properly. My first experiance with a new Ford was that it wasnt done properly and a serious safety issue got thru.
For those of you who work in dealers maybe you should take it as a customer service issue rather than a personal attack. Many of the people who work for dealers are up front about it and those people have provided great advice from an expert in the business and I and many of the members value that input. I have brought a car from one of those members.
If you work for a Ford dealer and dont like negative comments then I would suggest that you had better find another forum to read. Most of us here like our Fords but I can tell there a number who dont like "Ford" or some of their dealers very much.
Miss Sullivan
05-02-07, 09:41 PM
It would seem this whole dealer delivery issues has touched a few raw nerves. Let me re-state for me its about the bottom line drive away price.
However if part of that cost is a service I have paid for I expect that service to be done, and done properly. My first experiance with a new Ford was that it wasnt done properly and a serious safety issue got thru.
For those of you who work in dealers maybe you should take it as a customer service issue rather than a personal attack. Many of the people who work for dealers are up front about it and those people have provided great advice from an expert in the business and I and many of the members value that input. I have brought a car from one of those members.
If you work for a Ford dealer and dont like negative comments then I would suggest that you had better find another forum to read. Most of us here like our Fords but I can tell there a number who dont like "Ford" or some of their dealers very much.
Do you own the Forum? you think that you can dictate who can say what/when? I'll have you know that although I have only started voicing my opinion here, I have many friends on this site that know me and what I stand for... so If you are questioning things then be prepared to hear the truth and not just a validation of your own opinion.
The best solution would be if everytime a price was written down it was driveaway or inclusive of all costs, taxes etc. This would extend to options. Then you could look at a car and say it costs $44444.44 keys in hand plus $4444.44 in options steps, towbar, tint, satnav, etc. $48888.88
Then if a dealer offers you 3000 off you know what your getting.
Dealer delivery fee should buy a quality relationship where minor niggles and quality issues are dealt with in a timely and corteous manner - Some owners are nightmares, so are some dealers and some cars.
If you could take a Ford back and get things fixed as easily as we could with Mum's Toyota then Ford would have a great quality rep. If the Avalon had've been a Ford it would have been called a lemon by most. It was a Toyota so it was either just a 'Friday car' or a blood d Avalon
Laminge
05-02-07, 10:24 PM
Do you own the Forum? you think that you can dictate who can say what/when? I'll have you know that although I have only started voicing my opinion here, I have many friends on this site that know me and what I stand for... so If you are questioning things then be prepared to hear the truth and not just a validation of your own opinion.
Nope, Hes not, I am one of those that do though....
I would hope that we, after having seen us sniff each other whilst going in circles, can just get on with some decent discussions.
allypally
05-02-07, 10:43 PM
Nope, Hes not, I am one of those that do though....
I would hope that we, after having seen us sniff each other whilst going in circles, can just get on with some decent discussions.
Now I won't be able to sleep with that vision in the back of my mind.
johnydep
05-02-07, 10:49 PM
Now I won't be able to sleep with that vision in the back of my mind.
You to? :embarasse
It would seem this whole dealer delivery issues has touched a few raw nerves.
No I don't agree. It's more a case of it being explained somewhat yet the question keeps popping up again.
To help clear it up again why don't you tell me what you do for a living first.
No I don't agree. It's more a case of it being explained somewhat yet the question keeps popping up again.
To help clear it up again why don't you tell me what you do for a living first.
What I do for a living no problems I have mentioned that in a number of threads when the topic has come up...
I started life as mechanic I spent some time in a small service station and then a large Holden dealer in Townsville. I then spent 20 years and 17 days serving this country in the Airforce as an Aircraft Tech.
I now work as a Software automation specialist. I am a contractor so I work for the highest bidder. The current highest bidder is the Queensland Govt..
I am not shy about who I am or what I do and I have met a number of members of this forum.
My point here has been that Ford and is dealers have an image problem those that work in the industry should take on board what their customers have to say and look for ways to improve the customer experiance.
Nope, Hes not, I am one of those that do though....
I would hope that we, after having seen us sniff each other whilst going in circles, can just get on with some decent discussions.
Sorry mate I will be a good boy now..... :notworthy
Laminge
06-02-07, 08:30 AM
Ill take you on that or I will post pictures of my body kit in this thread
Ill take you on that or I will post pictures of my body kit in this thread
Now thats just plain nasty... :saywhat:
What I do for a living no problems I have mentioned that in a number of threads when the topic has come up...
I started life as mechanic I spent some time in a small service station and then a large Holden dealer in Townsville. I then spent 20 years and 17 days serving this country in the Airforce as an Aircraft Tech.
I now work as a Software automation specialist. I am a contractor so I work for the highest bidder. The current highest bidder is the Queensland Govt..
I am not shy about who I am or what I do and I have met a number of members of this forum.
The question wasn't regarding whether you have revealed what you actually do. The point is, as a Software Automation Specialist, do you have to specify the brake up of your hourly charge and what exactly you do for all that money? (I'm not refering to an invoice)
Have you ever actually made a mistake in your line of work?
Have you ever been openly scrutenised by people outside your industry?
The question wasn't regarding whether you have revealed what you actually do. The point is, as a Software Automation Specialist, do you have to specify the brake up of your hourly charge and what exactly you do for all that money? (I'm not refering to an invoice)
Have you ever actually made a mistake in your line of work?
Have you ever been openly scrutenised by people outside your industry?
When I was an Aircraft Tech my work was checked by a team of people and later as a supervisor I was part of a team that checked the work of others.
My contract role well the customer pays a lot of money for my time and they want to know what they get for it and generally my customers are not IT people so they are outside of my Industry. What I do is listen to their needs and respond to that. My work work is also subject to peer review. Software developement well most days you make mistakes but the big thing is you learn from them and dont repeat the same mistakes. This is something the automative game just cant seem to get right...
Have you ever been openly scrutenised by people outside your industry?
Yes in IT.. every place I have worked has external auditors who look at the Quality systems in use these Auditors are put in place by the customers to ensure standards are being met.
Maybe we as customers should seek to place Auditors in dealerships to ensure that delivery standards are what they should be...
mowog, I really respect you and your views. I understand where you are coming from regarding the whole issue.
However, as far as being scrutenised, I was refering to a forum. Lets say something like AFF! No auditors here as far as I know.
Anyway, the important thing is I understand your point of view and will do everything I can to do my job the best that I can.
Cheers.
RATT
AFF may not have auditors but we do have somthing far more scary... MINGE...
Sometimes it can be very hard to make a point on a forum.
Anyway Peace and goodwill to all :hi5:
Laminge
06-02-07, 10:02 AM
Im not scary.
I just like hugs and cuddles like anyone else
I just like hugs and cuddles like anyone else
Now theres an image I can do without :twitch:
allypally
06-02-07, 06:02 PM
Must say... I support Mowog's views in this one.
I just like hugs and cuddles like anyone else
Garry I dont think you want to remind me of this later this month at the FPV Family Day...LOL
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