Buying a Territory

[Sam_Boss260]

HI all,

First I have to say that this forum is great for people wanting to buy a new car and are doing some research. You can't always believe the stuff that you read, and certainly can't believe everything you hear from a car salesman (sorry if I have offended anyone).

I'm looking at buying a TX RWD Territory, with a few options like the iDesign Trim, alloys, fog lights etc.

Two questions, hsa anyone actually seen the new iDesign trim? The partial leather gear? And also, the dealer told me last week that there will be a price rise July 1. I think it was a ploy to get me to sign sooner. Has anyone heard anything like this?

And lasltly, if anyone has any comments or suggestions, please reply.....

[johnydep]

Welcome saml

I can only comment on a few things, I have a Ghia & the leather shifter & steering wheel are great.

If you need a tow bar, go for the factory unit as it comes with a heavy duty automatic transmission cooler, which is beneficial for extended trans life.

If you like listening to music, go for the upgraded sound system.

If the dealer told you there is a price rise coming, more than likely there will be. Just find out why, if the price rise is coming with a model upgrade that includes a 6 speed auto you might want to wait, or screw the dealer for a bigger discount.

[Territory]

Hi Sam and welcome.
The dealer is correct. The is a likely July price rise and sorry but it is not a model upgrade.

iDesign trim looks quite smart and is in the same colour tones as the TX trim.

The leather gear shifter definitely looks better but is not as critical as if it were on a manual!

[Sam_Boss260]

Thanks Territory.

Is the price hike going to be a huge one? Do you know roughly how much?

And as far as the leather is concerned, when I said "leather gear" I meant the entire trim package.

I can't seem to get any really good pictures and the dealer was trying to tell me that you could not get any trim options on the TX, but he stood corrected when he checked his paperwork. I guess not being able to actually see the iDesign trim is hard to determine if the $1500 is worth it. I know the partial leather seats are the sides, headrest and back in leather and the bolster is an embossed leather????? Is that right?

[davester]

I know the partial leather seats are the sides, headrest and back in leather and the bolster is an embossed leather????? Is that right?

These parts of the leather trim are the non-perforated sections, and have embossed texture. The grey leather trim while showing dirt sooner than black leather, stays cooler than the black leather in my previous XR8. Dont think I'd go back to black leather personally, though some are unhappy about the dirt that shows on light tanned leather.

[zetec]

It's VERY much like the XR sports leather, with embossed leather/suede in the inserts and normal leather on the headrest and bolsters, with twin stitching (orange). It looks fantastic.

[Sam_Boss260]

Cool. Sounds like it is worth the extra cash.....

So if I try and look for the XR leather (not the full leather) then I should get the idea. Plus it will be in that Territory grey.

Thanks

[SAMTX]

I wonder what we each paid for our vehicles? Obviously it will be different from state to state but it may be of benefit for potential Territory owners to see what spec. cars cost what and from where, it would be a good tool for anyone who may be about to do a deal to see what others have negotiated.
I am more than comfortable to report the following. I purchased my car in new in Jan 2005 it is a Dec. 2004 build TX SX RWD, 'blaze' paint, cruise, tinted and floor mats. From Maughan Thiem Ford in Adelaide S.A. $38,000 on the road.

[Raptor]

.....
I'm looking at buying a TX RWD Territory, with a few options like the iDesign Trim, alloys, fog lights etc.
.....

Hi saml,

I haven't seen the iDesign trim so can't comment on that.

Have you considered the TS or is it definetly a TX.

With the TS you already get the alloys you are talking about optioning plus you get different trim (though still not leather). Plus the Ghia spec premium audio that comes with the colour screen and the split climate control HVAC system plus side curtain airbags. These features were enough to tempt me into a TS and the DSC of the AWD helped justified that.

If you can wait until August there is a nice new colour coming too, Kashmir!

http://www.ford.com.au/territory/images/1/clr_kashmir.jpg

[Sam_Boss260]

Hey Raptor,
I have been pulling my hair out about the TX vs TS. And it pretty much came down to this.... the price diff between a TX and TS is around $6k for the extra bits that you mentioned. So if I add alloys, side curtain airbags and cruise, I am looking at an extra $3k with the TX. still leaves me with $3k to play with, and to be honest the superior sound system and console isn't worth $3k to me. So for $1500 I'll add the idesign trim.

[Fast forward]

HI all,

First I have to say that this forum is great for people wanting to buy a new car and are doing some research. You can't always believe the stuff that you read, and certainly can't believe everything you hear from a car salesman (sorry if I have offended anyone).

I'm looking at buying a TX RWD Territory, with a few options like the iDesign Trim, alloys, fog lights etc.

Two questions, hsa anyone actually seen the new iDesign trim? The partial leather gear? And also, the dealer told me last week that there will be a price rise July 1. I think it was a ploy to get me to sign sooner. Has anyone heard anything like this?

And lasltly, if anyone has any comments or suggestions, please reply.....



as far as price goes try doing this ... Send out an email via www.drive.com.au to all the delaers in your state and they will all contact you with very aggressive pricing on the Terri. Then you go to your local dealer and get him to match it.

it is on the right hand side.

http://drive.com.au/buy/new/car_features.asp?from=4&m=ford%7cterritory%7c4.0+ts+sss&vt=1&init=64340320050201


and also try www.discountnewcars.com.au as a guide.

happy shopping ;)

[Peter B]

Also checkout the Ford factory demos at your dealer. 2004 Ghias start at about $42000 with about 12000ks, which is what we bought, with 3rd seat.The upgraded audio, a/c, control screen and seat memory are well worthwhile -definitely aim to get them.We just love the ease of use of the Ghia audio and a/c. We still can't believe that we have such a stunning vehicle. We marvel every time we go in it.It has put the fun back into driving, whether as a passenger or driver.

[Sam_Boss260]

Yeah I'm looking at leasing the Territory through work, so they can get a pretty good deal with fleet discounts and everything. So I'm pretty good on price - but still trying to get the best deal and best value for monty.

[Dodge]

black with chrome 22" boots .

[saba]

Yeah I'm looking at leasing the Territory through work, so they can get a pretty good deal with fleet discounts and everything. So I'm pretty good on price - but still trying to get the best deal and best value for monty.That's the way to go. I'm salary packaging mine. I got a fleet discount on an 05 Black RWD Ghia with 3rd row seats, carry bars, aux cable, tow pack, alloy scuff plates and tint for $51,000 including all on-road costs. Plus after the tax breaks of packaging, the tax man ends up paying a third of the lease. After 5 years I will have the option of buying it outright or trading it in. If I choose to buy it outright my own personal total outlay will be about $49,000.

[Fast forward]

That's the way to go. I'm salary packaging mine. I got a fleet discount on an 05 Black RWD Ghia with 3rd row seats, carry bars, aux cable, tow pack, alloy scuff plates and tint for $51,000 including all on-road costs. Plus after the tax breaks of packaging, the tax man ends up paying a third of the lease. After 5 years I will have the option of buying it outright or trading it in. If I choose to buy it outright my own personal total outlay will be about $49,000.



??

your figures are wrong mate.

What will the buy figure be in 5 years and why would you want to buy it ?

You are renting a car that you will not own at the end of its duration. 5 years is a long course as well .

Each to their own.

[jwr]

I've recently ordered a car via Leaseplan, and the prices 'appear' to be pretty sharp. A RWD Ghia, list price $44,999 - national discount $4976 + Delivery $750. I work for a big company so I also got the group discount of $2488.
I'm sure they catch you up in the lease payments, so for me it was a matter of timing. I needed a new car (3 kids) so I 'll lease then buy it out at the end of the lease.

You can check it out here:
http://simulators.leaseplan.com.au/vehicle_database.jsp

[saba]

??

your figures are wrong mate.

What will the buy figure be in 5 years and why would you want to buy it ?

You are renting a car that you will not own at the end of its duration. 5 years is a long course as well .

Each to their own.No, my figures are not wrong. If you understand what salary packaging is you will know that the lease payments are made in pre-tax dollars, which effectively reduce the amount of income tax that needs to paid.

My deal is as follows.

My lease payments are $415 a fortnight over 5 years. However these payments come from pretax dollars, lowering my tax obligations by $153 a fn. Offset the tax savings against the lease and my personal outlay is $262 fn.

Multiply this by 5 years 262 x 26 x 5 = $34060

Now IF I take up the option of buying the car at its 30% residual after 5 years it will cost me another $15300. Therefore my total outlay to OWN the car after 5 years will be $49360. I don't have to buy it and if I return the car and my total outlay will only be $34060 to use a brand new territory for 5 years.

The lease company still get the full amount, my 262 + taxmans 153 = $415 = $53900 + 30% residual over 5 years.

Compare this to finacing a car through HP, a $57,000 car (thats what it would cost with ORC if I didn't lease it) over 5 years has repayments of $514 a fn. Thats $66800 to own the car after 5 years. $49360 v $66800 - its a no brainer.

5 years ownership of a car is too long??? Seems fairly average to me.

I've been packaging another car for 3 years now, I know how this works.

[Sam_Boss260]

Yeah saba, this is really the only way I can myself into a Territory, plus I need to drive around in it for work.
I'm looking at the TX RWD, cruise, upgrade trim (leather), alloys, tint and mats for $36,900 ex GST drive away. I thought that the tax man pays for much for than a thrid? Did you novate lease - where all car expenses are included in the package?

And how did you get to that $49k figure.... I thought that its much more than that.

PS. If you don't want to disclose too much personal info, no probs mate. This is the first time that I have salary scarificed a car and I'm a little scared to be honest !

[saba]

Yeah saba, this is really the only way I can myself into a Territory, plus I need to drive around in it for work.
I'm looking at the TX RWD, cruise, upgrade trim (leather), alloys, tint and mats for $36,900 ex GST drive away. I thought that the tax man pays for much for than a thrid? Did you novate lease - where all car expenses are included in the package?

And how did you get to that $49k figure.... I thought that its much more than that.

PS. If you don't want to disclose too much personal info, no probs mate. This is the first time that I have salary scarificed a car and I'm a little scared to be honest !Hi saml, yes its a novated lease and some of the running costs are packaged as well. I only focused on the actual lease costs in my example. What the tax man contributes depends on your tax scale, (the higher the salary the better the saving) and how many km you will do. Do less than 25000km and the tax savings are reduced. The tax man is contributing to 37% of my lease. The salary packaging has pushed my base salary into a lower tax bracket, so the saving is not as great as it could be. The 49k figure is what my lease manager, my financial adviser (which is obligatory by my employer) and myself have independently come up with based on my situation. I currently also lease a Saab 9-3 which has slightly higher costs than the Territory and the quoted/calculated figures closely correspond to what I'm paying for the Saab. Its a bit scary to start with but once you are into it, it is quite straightforward. I wouldn't ever do it any other way. Its cheaper than paying cash up front. I'd rather put that money into other investments that actually appreciate rather than depreciate like cars.

[Sam_Boss260]

saba, the way that you put it makes perfect sense. And yeah I agree with the scary part !!! I'm glad to hear from others, that this works so well.

Much appreciated

[Fast forward]

. I'd rather put that money into other investments that actually appreciate rather than depreciate like cars.


Well you picked the worst of the lot in a Saab so you need some appreciating assets.

[saba]

Well you picked the worst of the lot in a Saab so you need some appreciating assets.Not as much as Fords. My 2003 Saab was $52000, a 2003 BA Fairmont 4.1 Ghia was also $52000 (well a tad under). Redbook has the Saab at $31700 -36300 and the Ford at $26,800 - $30,800 (private sales). I know the red book isn't the be all and end all, but all things being equal...Its a bit of an urban myth about depreciating Saabs, perpetuated by those without much of an idea on these things.

[Mechan1k]

Next car I get I'll do it through the Lease Plan at work.

But I just coughed up the cash for my Territory ... I didn't see it worth getting the TS .. when the TX was missing only a couple of little things anyway ... and I have heard about the high-series climate control ICCs stuffing up ... expensive fix to.

I bought the TX AWD and optioned it up a bit for what I needed ... and still got it way cheaper than a TS with no extras (got a ton of extras on my TX).

I got mine for about $42,000 inc ORC new ... with a long list of extras.
Also helped that I knew the salesman and he did a top deal for me.

[Sam_Boss260]

Mechan1k,

What options did you get?

[johnydep]

No, my figures are not wrong. If you understand what salary packaging is you will know that the lease payments are made in pre-tax dollars, which effectively reduce the amount of income tax that needs to paid.

My deal is as follows.

My lease payments are $415 a fortnight over 5 years. However these payments come from pretax dollars, lowering my tax obligations by $153 a fn. Offset the tax savings against the lease and my personal outlay is $262 fn.

Multiply this by 5 years 262 x 26 x 5 = $34060

Now IF I take up the option of buying the car at its 30% residual after 5 years it will cost me another $15300. Therefore my total outlay to OWN the car after 5 years will be $49360. I don't have to buy it and if I return the car and my total outlay will only be $34060 to use a brand new territory for 5 years.

The lease company still get the full amount, my 262 + taxmans 153 = $415 = $53900 + 30% residual over 5 years.

Compare this to finacing a car through HP, a $57,000 car (thats what it would cost with ORC if I didn't lease it) over 5 years has repayments of $514 a fn. Thats $66800 to own the car after 5 years. $49360 v $66800 - its a no brainer.

5 years ownership of a car is too long??? Seems fairly average to me.

I've been packaging another car for 3 years now, I know how this works.

Great for some, but not for all.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but;
You're paying $415 a fortnight, and once a year the tax man gives back $153 of each payment; as long as your income stays the same and the Government don't change the tax laws and we don't have a recession. So there are some variables to take into account.

If you decide not to keep the car, the final cost is $53950 less the Tax credit.
If you keep the vehicle it will cost $53950 + 30% = $70135 less the Tax credit.
This sounds like the negative gearing some do with investments, but with a car instead.

Servicing of vehicle is set by the Leasing company at their specified agent for the life of the plan?

[saba]

Great for some, but not for all.
Thats obvious, neither are HP, or paying cash.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but;
You're paying $415 a fortnight, and once a year the tax man gives back $153 of each payment; as long as your income stays the same and the Government don't change the tax laws and we don't have a recession. So there are some variables to take into account.

Those factors affect all type of financing too. Take out a loan, interest rates go up, lose your job, have a recession, no difference. Fortunately my income has only gone up in the last 20 years so I'm not really concerned by most of that. I would hope they would honour existing leases if they changed the laws. It was the govt that gave the green light to this anyway and is widely used in government salary schemes.

The tax man has no record of the deal. My group certificate just reports my reduced salary due to the packaging. The taxman asks no questions at taxtime. My reduced salary is used by the tax man to calculate my taxable income. As far as he is concerned thats all I earn.


If you decide not to keep the car, the final cost is $53950 less the Tax credit.
If you keep the vehicle it will cost $53950 + 30% = $70135 less the Tax credit.
This sounds like the negative gearing some do with investments, but with a car instead.


Yes thats basically correct.

If I decide not to keep the car it is cost of the lease - tax credits.

ie (415 x 5 x 26) - (153 x 5 x 26) = 53950 - 19890 = $34060

I f I keep the car it is cost of the lease + (30% of the purchase price of the car) - tax credits.

ie 53950 + 15300 (+10% GST) - 19890 = 49360 + (1530) = $50890

If interest rates rise then so does the cost of the lease, however the tac break will be greater so some of the interest rate rise will be offset by the increased tax break,

Don't forget the tax break goes to the lease company. So they end up getting my 50890 (if I buy the car) + tax man's 19890. So the lease company gets a total of $70780. Makes a profit of about $20000 on the deal.

Nothing like negative gearing. Its simply a repackaging of salary. Like a Fringe Benefit, but with FBT negated by employee contributions. If I decide to buy the car at its residual 30% ($15300) I will have a GST liability of 10% ($1530). If I do not buy the car it will be sold by the leasing company. Anything they get above 30% goes to me, anything less than 30% I have to make up (there's a risk). But at 30% I would think it would be safe bet to be able to sell a Ghia for $15300 in 5 years time. If the residual was 40% then it may be borderline. Mind you, Fords don't seem to have good resale value. My residual is based on the discounted price to, so that works in my favour as well.

You run the same risk if you've paid cash outright. If your car is less than 30% of what you paid for it then you have lost the same. If I can't sell a leased Ghia for more than 30%, then I wouldn't be able to sell one I paid cash for either for more than 30%

Its a variation of a standard company car. In the past employers provided a car to an employee. Fringe Benefit Tax was payable on the car @ 20% of the value of the car (under 25k km done). Thats how the tax man got the bite of the cherry. However in a novated lease the employee pays an amount equal to the FBT payable on the car (in after tax dollars). The employee is now seen by the government as contributing to the car and it no longer attracts FBT. The employee contributions don't go to the tax man but go towards the running costs of the car. As the employee is contributing to the running costs of the car, this is seen by the tax man as a supply by the employer. GST is payable on the supply, but the employer can gain a input credit and passes that to the employee. This effectively means running costs are GST free as well.

For the uninitiated.
http://www.nlc.com.au/novated/index.html


Servicing of vehicle is set by the Leasing company at their specified agent for the life of the plan?
Servicing is done by whoever you want,whenever you want.

Novated leases are simply another way of financing a car. It is not suitable for everyone but is widely available. Its effectiveness depends on a number if factors and I would suggest anybody considering such a thing to consult a financial adviser.