Crush street racers' cars

[digitalpunk]

I saw this on Sunrise this morning and cannot believe it is being considered, I think it will get to the stage where cars caught racing or speeding will be crushed. But, what annoys me is what will define street racing? What will define a hoon? If a $1 million supercar is caught speeding will that be crushed?

To me this is just a knee jerk reaction to put a big band-aid over the real issue.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...-29277,00.html

Crush street racers' cars - top cop
August 05, 2007 03:17pm

ANOTHER street race just a kilometre from the site of a crash in which a couple were killed has prompted a call by NSW's top cop for tougher action against hoons.

Commissioner Ken Moroney was incredulous after police charged a disqualified driver and a P-plater over an alleged street race in St Marys early this morning.

A 17-year-old boy from Kingswood and a 21-year-old man from Busby, were arrested after police observed them allegedly racing side-by-side on the Great Western Highway at 3.40am (AEST).

Mr Moroney said the message of responsible driving campaigns did not seem to be getting through to car hoons, who needed to take greater personal responsibility for their "moronic'' behaviour.

He said more extreme measures might be needed to stamp out illegal street racing.

"You have to question whether, as in the case of the United States, the solution to this problem is in part the compacting of vehicles into a cube dropped on the front lawn of their homes,'' Mr Moroney told reporters today.

"Maybe that's the message that they've got to understand.''

In today's incident, the 17-year-old was driving a Toyota Camry with two 16-year-old passengers while the 21-year-old, already disqualified from driving until 2010, was driving a Daihatsu Charade, police said.

Their cars were confiscated once they were questioned at Penrith Police Station.

The 21-year-old was charged with taking part in a vehicle race, driving while disqualified and providing false details.

He was refused bail and will appear in Parramatta Bail Court this afternoon.

The 17-year-old youth was charged with taking part in a vehicle race, and not complying with vehicle passenger restrictions.

He was granted bail to appear at Penrith Local Court on 27 August.

The incident occurred just a kilometre from the site of the crash in which Alan and Judith Howle were killed when their car was hit as two Holden Commodores allegedly raced side-by-side down the Great Western Highway at St Marys on July 29.

Mr Howle, 71, was killed instantly while Mrs Howle, 70, died before she could be rescued from the wreck.

One of the men allegedly responsible for the deaths, Robert James Borkowski, 37, of Claremont Meadows, has been refused bail on charges relating to the smash.

Police have yet to charge a second man allegedly involved in the incident.

[agony]

Maybe it will take something like this for all the idiots out there to listen, I say bring it on.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by agony

Maybe it will take something like this for all the idiots out there to listen, I say bring it on.

Agreed. To many flaunt the law because they can get away with it. IMO it should be for a second offense.

But on the flip side, why get a second chance? They could have killed someone else the first time. Wipe yourself out for all I care, but when innocent bystanders going to do the shopping get killed then thats whack to say the least.

[digitalpunk]

Originally Posted by agony

Maybe it will take something like this for all the idiots out there to listen, I say bring it on.

IF it will stop these idiots driving at ludicrous speeds putting everybody elses life in danger I wouldn't mind it, but what will define as Street Racing? what do they define as a hoon? and if it is successfull, will they bring it in for all people caught speeding over a certain amount?

I am a tad uncertain about it all though.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by digitalpunk

IF it will stop these idiots driving at ludicrous speeds putting everybody elses life in danger I wouldn't mind it, but what will define as Street Racing? what do they define as a hoon? and if it is successfull, will they bring it in for all people caught speeding over a certain amount?

I am a tad uncertain about it all though.

Pretty simple the way I see it.

Street racing is deliberately lining up another car, and racing. ie - staging at the lights and then speeding/zipping through traffic/narrowly missing other cars

Hooning is like dropping a burnout in a car park, a little sideways action around a corner etc.

Two very different things, racing being ALOT worse than hooning, but some hooning can lead to injury so its a tough call.

Its only the smart-ar$es that will cry about the definitions. Just dont be a tool in a public place and you will be fine. And if you must, pick your battles its really not brain surgery. If you notice the people being caught, a high IQ score would not their strong point.

As an example, I was on the hume the other week, out near Ford, and these two POS BMW's were doing atleast 120 through a section that is 60-80! Zipping across 3 lanes, just missing cars, trucks all over the place. I was hoping I would see the pair of them mangled up ahead. Sounds harsh, btu people like this know damn well what they are doing. We all do silly things but there has been more than enough warning.

[ED Classic]

Originally Posted by Polyal

staging at the lights and then speeding/zipping through traffic/narrowly missing other cars

.

Far from it!! (Most) I see are 2,3, or 4 cars on the highway who get a set of lights together, then make sure they have a clear lane so its all equal, then give it 2 or 3 gears and back off. Still not legal (Of Course), but far from zooming around traffic at ridiculous speeds. Not sure about organized meetings as I dont attend, and Im sure your the same.

[b2tf]

How is it the car's fault? I dont see how crushing them serves to solve the problem.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by agony

Maybe it will take something like this for all the idiots out there to listen, I say bring it on.

Interesting comment.
What’s the legal definition for a “street racer”? So the next time you take your "super hot Street rod" for a spin and give it a quick rev from the lights “up to the speed limit” and some tool in a Nissan Pulsar decides to keep up with you, are you now classed as a street racer?

Going by the BS that the media are reporting lately, surely you’ll be considered a street racer and a prime candidate for the crusher.

Would you have the same opinion then?

[Nikked]

1. These people will just get another car, and do the same thing again
2. More people will try to outrun the cops.
3. Most poeple being are in shitbox stockers.
4. Real enthusist will be the ones who cop it
5. If your car has a loud exaust or "looks fast", your a hoon.
6. Sunrise and the Dialy telegraph a run by who spin stuff to gain viewers/readership.

LOL at Camry vs Charade.

[5tumpy]

I'm all for it, as long as the standard is the same as in criminal cases, i.e beyond reasonable doubt.... If not and all a copper has to do is say you were street racing to force you to cop a fine sweet (it's happened to me with the hoon laws "Well mate, I saw your wheels loose traction, I don't care if its wet and you backed off as soon as the wheels broke loose, that's neg driving. If you don't like it, I'll have you charged under the new hoon laws, and we'll take your car off you as well").

So yeah, if it's done well, go for it, if it can be abused, no thank you!

[fiery]

The thing I personally think everyone on here is forgetting that YOU all (or at least most) did something stupid at one stage of driving, being it speeding, racing, 'hooning', little skids or maybe that full on burnout (just to leave your mark). Anyone that rubbishes on that they didn't do it, I don't particularly believe you are completely innocent.

Anyway my point is when any of us 'older' ones did it, we had massive long stretches of road that were either not busy, no houses and in relatively good condition (with bugga all traffic, it is hard to not have good roads). That is no longer available, there is no longer that spare block of hundreds of acres sitting there with a bitumen area that you can use to do things on or in.

Again I have veered, sorry. My actual point is how about banding together and demanding our moronic government get back to fixing the problem, not sticking a useless band aid over it.

Education, training and more facilities open more often at a reasonable cost is going to go a heck of a lot further than sticking that useless band aid of taking or crushing cars.
The next thing will be having to sit back and watch innocent people have their cars stolen so morons can race, skid, do burnouts etc.

Think about that one!!!



:

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by fiery

The thing I personally think everyone on here is forgetting that YOU all (or at least most) did something stupid at one stage of driving, being it speeding, racing, 'hooning', little skids or maybe that full on burnout (just to leave your mark). Anyone that rubbishes on that they didn't do it, I don't particularly believe you are completely innocent.

Anyway my point is when any of us 'older' ones did it, we had massive long stretches of road that were either not busy, no houses and in relatively good condition (with bugga all traffic, it is hard to not have good roads). That is no longer available, there is no longer that spare block of hundreds of acres sitting there with a bitumen area that you can use to do things on or in.

Again I have veered, sorry. My actual point is how about banding together and demanding our moronic government get back to fixing the problem, not sticking a useless band aid over it.

Education, training and more facilities open more often at a reasonable cost is going to go a heck of a lot further than sticking that useless band aid of taking or crushing cars.
The next thing will be having to sit back and watch innocent people have their cars stolen so morons can race, skid, do burnouts etc.

Think about that one!!!



:

I agree to a point..but, some people learn the hard way, and some dont learn at all; so why put up with it in the mean time. All the education in the world will not help some people.

Your right, we all do silly things when we are young. I got 4 speeding fines with 6 months of having my license, so I would have been stuffed if these laws where around.

But in saying that, I wouldn't have been stupid enough to continue stuffing around if I knew the penalty would be so great. Perhaps thats the point?

And I think it goes without saying that if someone has stolen your car, and used it to "race" then its not going to be crushed, thats a tad ridiculous.

[fiery]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I agree to a point..but, some people learn the hard way, and some dont learn at all; so why put up with it in the mean time. All the education in the world will not help some people.

Your right, we all do silly things when we are young. I got 4 speeding fines with 6 months of having my license, so I would have been stuffed if these laws where around.

But in saying that, I wouldn't have been stupid enough to continue stuffing around if I knew the penalty would be so great. Perhaps thats the point?

And I think it goes without saying that if someone has stolen your car, and used it to "race" then its not going to be crushed, thats a tad ridiculous.

You have missed my point about the stolen part though. You crush the 'hoons' car they will go steal someone else's. I know it happens now, but watch it increase if these moronic rules come into play.

Again, my point was when we had an area of getting IT out of our system, we did. Therefore we weren't so moronic around built up areas.
I have watched it get worse with the whole driving thing slowly over the years with facilities closing, raising the cost above what is reasonable, and those empty areas being not so empty anymore.
I know the 100acres we all learnt to handle our cars in is now houses, not from the owner wanting to sell, but being forced to. Yes it happens.

How do you know if you would have learnt? You didn't learn with how many you got anyway, so there is nothing to say that your thought process at that particular age and time would have been different. You are looking at it differently now because A) you are older B) you got IT out of your system somewhat.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by fiery

You have missed my point about the stolen part though. You crush the 'hoons' car they will go steal someone else's. I know it happens now, but watch it increase if these moronic rules come into play.

Again, my point was when we had an area of getting IT out of our system, we did. Therefore we weren't so moronic around built up areas.
I have watched it get worse with the whole driving thing slowly over the years with facilities closing, raising the cost above what is reasonable, and those empty areas being not so empty anymore.
I know the 100acres we all learnt to handle our cars in is now houses, not from the owner wanting to sell, but being forced to. Yes it happens.

How do you know if you would have learnt? You didn't learn with how many you got anyway, so there is nothing to say that your thought process at that particular age and time would have been different. You are looking at it differently now because A) you are older B) you got IT out of your system somewhat.

I would have learnt because the consequences are alot higher. All I did was waste money and loss some points on a licence. Mind you my fines were never 20kph or greater over, and I wasn't racing or "hooning", just speeding.

Going on about stolen cars and hooning without knowing the exact facts is a bit pointless. How many cars involved in racing are actually stolen? How many are the registered owner? We dont know that so I guess we will get no where debating it.

Also comparing "when I was young" to the kids now is not valid as things are different. The roads are different (more congested), the cars are capable of more for less $$$ etc etc. You cant keep the laws the same forever.

Originally Posted by ED Classic

Far from it!! (Most) I see are 2,3, or 4 cars on the highway who get a set of lights together, then make sure they have a clear lane so its all equal, then give it 2 or 3 gears and back off. Still not legal (Of Course), but far from zooming around traffic at ridiculous speeds. Not sure about organized meetings as I dont attend, and Im sure your the same.

So hang on you are saying thats ok..little confused? "Street Racing" does come in a lot of forms, I never said I knew/have seen all them.

Originally Posted by mr_xr8

to subjective

would a hill start that got a cherp out of the wheels be classed as burnout???
would i then have my car crushed because i misjudged a hill start????

Surely you are not serious? Or course not, and if an officer was going to be so tight, you are not going to get your car crushed..LOL..relax people.

Im not trying to argue here, but there are some people out there that do not deserve a license, and they endanger others without thinking twice about it. Thats what the racing laws etc are aimed at. Not some pimpley kid who accidentally got a bit sideways around a corner, or chirped it on a hill start.

[mowog]

Originally Posted by BlackLS

LOL at Camry vs Charade.

I had fool in a Charade trying to drag my XR6 Turbo. Just to be clear I didnt even try to race him if fact I had to keep backing off so he could stay level.

But it displays the mentality of these fools what the hell are they thinking.

Did I break any laws? It was probably the slowest I had accelerated from the lights that morning. The Charade continued to rocket : down the road above the speed limit.

As for crushing cars... I have 3 kids who are Teenage drivers, I own the the 2 cars my kids share and drive. I dont think I would want to see one of my cars crushed but I would have no issue with the law holding one of the cars for a while at least it would be one car less I have to fill each week until it comes back.

[XR06T]

so i deserve a 30k fine for someone claiming i was racing? like ..

the hoon laws are too subjective to try to bring in a law like that

Better to auction the cars off and use that money to subsidise entry fees to WSID and have it running on more nights.

But whether it comes to crushing or selling, there should be some hard video or photographic evidence of the crime being commited.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by BlackLS

LOL at Camry vs Charade.

...But the rest of the detail...

Originally Posted by digitalpunk

The 21-year-old was charged with taking part in a vehicle race, driving while disqualified and providing false details.

The guy is a nuffty! :togo:

Originally Posted by XR06T

so i deserve a 30k fine for someone claiming i was racing? like ..

the hoon laws are too subjective to try to bring in a law like that

Hoon laws are subjective, so dont give them a reason to be. Racing is pretty clear cut.

Perhaps peoples opinions would be different it it was their Grandparents who were recently killed by that racing incident?

[Bucket]

Impound their car for a Month or Two, suspend their license for the same period of time and make them pay for the storage. If they are caught again driving in that time, their car goes away for another month as does their license.

[mr_xr8]

to subjective

would a hill start that got a cherp out of the wheels be classed as burnout there for it being hooning???
would i then have my car crushed because i misjudged a hill start????

[TZENU]

Originally Posted by mr_xr8

to subjective

would a hill start that got a cherp out of the wheels be classed as burnout there for it being hooning???
would i then have my car crushed because i misjudged a hill start????

And there lies the problem.... The punishment depends on what the acting officer perceives as hooning.. Some officers' views will differ from others and thats were i believe the loop hole exists

[BPXR6T]

Yeah right. If I take off a little fast from the lights and some cop fingers me for street racing then they crush my car. In my mind that is a declaration of war. I'd seriously pull out the guns and bleed the cost of my destroyed property out of the government. That crosses all kinds of lines and goes way too far.

[TUF514]

Im not really into street racing, but they will class " giving your car a bootful " as racing which i cant wait to do.

If they want to start crushing things that are dangerous to us, they should start with the politicians!

[ON_DUBS]

the idea of crushing somebody's vehicle is ridiculous.

impounding with a fine to get your car back serves the purpose,
i don't think the government should have the right to destroy somebodys car.

[Tiapan]

you can be done on the hoon law for things as little as... 'acting in a way that is testing the vehicls capability to brake or handle'

thats just taking a roundabout at 50km!

'acting in a way which is testing a vehicles accereration capability'

thats just getting to the speed limit too fast!!!

its all utter b*llshit!

what if i have my car crushed just because i acellerate a little fast for the first 40meters at the traffic lights just to tell the SS driver beside me not to bother?

i always give it a little squirt to jump ahead of any retard commodore driver just to remind him he is not driving a race car

and half of you on this forum think i should have my car crushed?? remember how easliy police can blow things out of the water, the power they could have can now take our car off us!!!

[TUF514]

Originally Posted by Tiapan

you can be done on the hoon law for things as little as... 'acting in a way that is testing the vehicls capability to brake or handle'

thats just taking a roundabout at 50km!

'acting in a way which is testing a vehicles accereration capability'

thats just getting to the speed limit too fast!!!

its all utter b*llshit!

what if i have my car crushed just because i acellerate a little fast for the first 40meters at the traffic lights just to tell the SS driver beside me not to bother?

i always give it a little squirt to jump ahead of any retard commodore driver just to remind him he is not driving a race car

and half of you on this forum think i should have my car crushed?? remember how easliy police can blow things out of the water, the power they could have can now take our car off us!!!

You wont get much support from these guys mate, but im with you! :

[VIBEBA]

Originally Posted by TUF514

You wont get much support from these guys mate, but im with you! :

Im in agreance with you there mate : : :

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Tiapan

you can be done on the hoon law for things as little as... 'acting in a way that is testing the vehicls capability to brake or handle'

thats just taking a roundabout at 50km!

'acting in a way which is testing a vehicles accereration capability'

thats just getting to the speed limit too fast!!!

its all utter b*llshit!

what if i have my car crushed just because i acellerate a little fast for the first 40meters at the traffic lights just to tell the SS driver beside me not to bother?

i always give it a little squirt to jump ahead of any retard commodore driver just to remind him he is not driving a race car

and half of you on this forum think i should have my car crushed?? remember how easliy police can blow things out of the water, the power they could have can now take our car off us!!!

OMG, mate relax. Some people must have shocking driving history if they are getting so worked up. From what I can tell your car is not sent instantly to the crusher for your first offense. And it is not sent for the "hooning" related laws. Surely that 3 strikes (compounding) criteria still applies for that.

Getting your car crushed is extreme, but I am tipping (obviously not 100%) its for multiple or major offenses.

What scottishxc is right, simple, dont be a clown and an officer wont even look at you. Also how you conduct yourself once being pulled over plays a part. I can think of two occasions that I have been pulled over and spoken my way out of a situation. Some people just have chips on their shoulders.

[TUF514]

Originally Posted by Polyal

What scottishxc is right, simple, dont be a clown and an officer wont even look at you. Also how you conduct yourself once being pulled over plays a part. I can think of two occasions that I have been pulled over and spoken my way out of a situation. Some people just have chips on their shoulders.

Mate, i cant see how you can say that. I cant remember cruising by a copper in any of my old cars and not being eyeballed.

The number of times i have been pulled up for " random breath test and license check " because of what i was driving is BS as well.