New Nsw Car Hoon Laws . Grandma Policing .

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by shonkymofo

I guess that's my point. I agree what I would do is probably not rational. But if someone would engage in a pursuit for the dumb reasons they do, say cause they don't know if they've had 4 or 6 beers, rather than biting the bullet and going "I've f*$%ed up and am going to the watchhouse", why would you think when there actually is something substantial at stake they would not run. If I am speeding except in very rare circumstances I would accept I have done the wrong thing and cop a reasonable penalty that is in proportion to the offence. Hell even if it is outlandish I would just get on with life, but what we are talking about enters the realms of ridiculous. In the case of my car, a $70,000 fine for the second offence in 5 years. This is not a rational situation and I would therefore not react in a rational way. I don't think I am alone.

I have at no point said I condone speeding. I would rather not waste time on a one legged **** kicking contest like that.

Bad legislation results in bad outcomes. You should think for yourself a little instead of quoting the materials produced by the state.

as yes.. the old "its the laws fault" excuse.....

The law made me run away, after i broke one law, I figured I may as well just keep going and keep breaking a few more.

I shot one person, may as well shoot an other.... it was the laws fault.

[VICFPV]

[QUOTE=Kevaclone]So you took off from lights and were doing what? 120 in a 60 zone?? or something like that??
and you call it a "momentary of lack of concentration on my speedometer"

if you are not aware you are going twice the speed limit without looking at your speedo then you deserve to not have a licence

The Judge and police know the difference between a "Momentary loss of concentration"(still not a valid excuse) and plain stupidity. that is why you got no leniency[/QU

It was 109 in a 60 zone.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by VICFPV

It was 109 in a 60 zone.

I drive a lot of different cars for a living and do understand it is easy to creep over the speed limit without knowing it, especially in a high performance car.

However going over the speed limit by 40+ Kays requires right foot heaviness, especially from a standing start. This is why people are taught to squeeze the throttle, rather than stomp on it.

So what KEVACLONE has said makes alot of sense.

I am sure you have learnt your lesson, so I don't see any reason to continue on with it.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by Dave3911

You do realise this country has different states with different laws, right? He is talking about Victoria. I can tell you 100% he is correct. In Victoria The ONLY way to get an immediate suspension(note NOT a disqualification - which is a totally different thing and is ONLY done by the court) is under Section 51 of the RSA, for drink or drug driving.

Automatic suspension's for speeding exist in Victoria, however they are not immediate and require either an appearance in court or for the infringement notice to be proven.

So your saying I can get suspended from driving and not worry about copping any further penality if a copper pulls me up again, whilst driving suspended?

Don't think so.


Coppers suspend you until the courts determine what, if any term of disqualification is put in place. Hence the reason they have a charge driving whilst suspended and another driving whilst disqualified.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

So your saying I can get suspended from driving and not worry about copping any further penality if a copper pulls me up again, whilst driving suspended?

Don't think so.


Coppers suspend you until the courts determine what, if any term of disqualification is put in place. Hence the reason they have a charge driving whilst suspended and another driving whilst disqualified.

Well after being busted 45 over for overtaking a semi (luckily no impound as it was in the middle of nowhere), rang Vic roads to see how many points I had lost the day after. Was still on zero, license still valid to drive. Went interstate the next day and did a transfer. I requested to cancel Vic license and paid the fine. Didn't hear anything more of the speeding fine or proposed 6mth disqualification and no demerit points 2 years later.

[Blue Blooded]

Sorry if it has already been covered, I've only read half of the replies but all this talk of roadworks is starting to annoy me.

Let me start by saying I do NOT agree with the new laws, I drive a new GT and enjoy giving it a squirt when the oppurtunity arises and have taken it on the chin when I get caught but for the cops to have the right to take my car is just CRAP.

But back to roadworks. I'm in the road industry and although I spend most of my time in an office these days I've spent well over 10 years working on the road. The speed limits at worksites are there for a few reasons, the first and most important is to protect the people on the site, another reason is because of the works the traffic lane may be narrower or have a temporary chicane in place requiring a lower speed limit.

You driving through a worksite at 2 in the morning have no idea of the traffic conditions ahead, hell it may seem deserted to you but over the hill ahead could be a couple of blokes putting temporary line marking in place ready for the morning, and don't tell me that it was fine the night before because they can change in an hour with traffic switches etc.

My point is as a fellow car nut and a guy who works on the roads, for your sake and mine obey worksite limits, any argument using roadwork speed limits as an excuse to speed can come spend a night on site with me.

[Streets]

Originally Posted by Blue Blooded

The speed limits at worksites are there for a few reasons, the first and most important is to protect the people on the site, another reason is because of the works the traffic lane may be narrower or have a temporary chicane in place requiring a lower speed limit.

You driving through a worksite at 2 in the morning have no idea of the traffic conditions ahead, hell it may seem deserted to you but over the hill ahead could be a couple of blokes putting temporary line marking in place ready for the morning, and don't tell me that it was fine the night before because they can change in an hour with traffic switches etc.

This. A lot of people get busted speeding in roadworks and whinge that "there weren't even any workmen around!" but there could've been gravel on the road, an uneven/patchy road surface, ruts cut in the road, fresh bitumen etc. Hit that at 60kph and then they'll be whinging that the council should replace their buckled rims.

I don't understand the self-entitled attitude that people have where they think they have a right to drive at full speed through areas of changed traffic conditions. Are people just too important to slow down for 30 seconds?

[Dave3911]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

So your saying I can get suspended from driving and not worry about copping any further penality if a copper pulls me up again, whilst driving suspended?

Don't think so.


Coppers suspend you until the courts determine what, if any term of disqualification is put in place. Hence the reason they have a charge driving whilst suspended and another driving whilst disqualified.

No, I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying is that, in Victoria, the automatic, mandatory, speeding suspensions are not immediate.

So you get caught speeding, doing 25km/hr over. A copper pulls you over and gives you a ticket. This offence in Victoria has a 1 month suspension attached to it and the ticket will advise you of that. However, you are currently not suspended as it's effect is not immediate (the ticket also advises that, as will the copper who gives it to you). Your license is not suspended until you a) Attend court and lose. b) Pay the fine.

It effectively gives you a 28 day grace period. You can drive away from the copper that day, and for the next few weeks just fine. If you get pulled up in the next few weeks for anything else, your license won't show suspended and you won't be committing the offence of driving whilst suspended.

Now, this is not the case for drink or drug driving. In the right circumstances (ie. not low-range drink driving, as that is just a demerit point offence) the police have the power under Section 51 of the Road Safety act to immediately suspend your license. They will issue you with a notice on the spot, fax a form immediately to Vicroads and take your license off you.

I'm a police dispatcher, I deal with this stuff every day I go to work and I know it inside out and back to front.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Dave3911

No, I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying is that, in Victoria, the automatic, mandatory, speeding suspensions are not immediate.

So you get caught speeding, doing 25km/hr over. A copper pulls you over and gives you a ticket. This offence in Victoria has a 1 month suspension attached to it and the ticket will advise you of that. However, you are currently not suspended as it's effect is not immediate (the ticket also advises that, as will the copper who gives it to you). Your license is not suspended until you a) Attend court and lose. b) Pay the fine.

It effectively gives you a 28 day grace period. You can drive away from the copper that day, and for the next few weeks just fine. If you get pulled up in the next few weeks for anything else, your license won't show suspended and you won't be committing the offence of driving whilst suspended.

Now, this is not the case for drink or drug driving. In the right circumstances (ie. not low-range drink driving, as that is just a demerit point offence) the police have the power under Section 51 of the Road Safety act to immediately suspend your license. They will issue you with a notice on the spot, fax a form immediately to Vicroads and take your license off you.

I'm a police dispatcher, I deal with this stuff every day I go to work and I know it inside out and back to front.

And within that 28 day period, if you do a license transfer application and answer the question 'not currently disqualified from driving in any state' with a 'yes', you are not doing anything illegal. correct?

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by Dave3911

No, I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying is that, in Victoria, the automatic, mandatory, speeding suspensions are not immediate.

So you get caught speeding, doing 25km/hr over. A copper pulls you over and gives you a ticket. This offence in Victoria has a 1 month suspension attached to it and the ticket will advise you of that. However, you are currently not suspended as it's effect is not immediate (the ticket also advises that, as will the copper who gives it to you). Your license is not suspended until you a) Attend court and lose. b) Pay the fine.



.

If your suspended ON THE SPOT, you automatically book a date with the court. If you aren't suspended ON THE SPOT you have the option of the booking. Correct???? I reckon so

[Dave3911]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

And within that 28 day period, if you do a license transfer application and answer the question 'not currently disqualified from driving in any state' with a 'yes', you are not doing anything illegal. correct?

No, your not. But it doesn't make the infringement go away. When you transfer your license to another state, your Vic license will be cancelled and a notation made that you now have an interestate license. When the infringement is finalised (ie. You pay it, or go to court, or an enforcement order is made) Vicroads will still notify the state you now hold a license in of the offence. Now I have no idea how the other state's traffic authority handle these things, but in the reverse situation (ie an offence in NSW on a Vic license) they apply the demerits and suspension as if the offence occured in Victoria. I would assume other states traffic authorities do similar things, but I have no idea. I suppose in some states you might get a free kick?

Originally Posted by svo supporter

If your suspended ON THE SPOT, you automatically book a date with the court. If you aren't suspended ON THE SPOT you have the option of the booking. Correct???? I reckon so

The court booking is irrelevant. The 'choice' to go to court goes both ways, not only do you have the choice if you get an infringement - but police have the choice at the time of the offence. They don't have to give you a ticket, they can summon you to court for ANY offence. Under 'normal' circumstances they just choose to process it via way of a traffic infringement notice. The recent industrial action they took last year is a good example of this - they had people attending court on all sorts of minor offences that normally would've just been tickets.

The point is that the ONLY way to get an immediate suspension in Victoria is via section 51 of the road safety act for a drink drive, or a drug drive offence - not speeding. Everything else waits until the offence is finalised before Vicroads will suspend. Whether you attend court or not isn't really relevant.

As for what happens in other states.... I'm lead to believe it varies GREATLY, but I can only speak with any confidence about Victoria.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by Dave3911

The court booking is irrelevant. The 'choice' to go to court goes both ways, not only do you have the choice if you get an infringement - but police have the choice at the time of the offence. They don't have to give you a ticket, they can summon you to court for ANY offence. Under 'normal' circumstances they just choose to process it via way of a traffic infringement notice. The recent industrial action they took last year is a good example of this - they had people attending court on all sorts of minor offences that normally would've just been tickets.

The point is that the ONLY way to get an immediate suspension in Victoria is via section 51 of the road safety act for a drink drive, or a drug drive offence - not speeding. Everything else waits until the offence is finalised before Vicroads will suspend. Whether you attend court or not isn't really relevant.

As for what happens in other states.... I'm lead to believe it varies GREATLY, but I can only speak with any confidence about Victoria.

So you're saying, if someone goes driving at speeds well above posted limits,(ie above 45 KPH) the locals in that state will allow you to drive away with your car after the accustomary piece of paper.

No wonder that state is in disarray

[Dave3911]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

So you're saying, if someone goes driving at speeds well above posted limits,(ie above 45 KPH) the locals in that state will allow you to drive away with your car after the accustomary piece of paper.

No wonder that state is in disarray

Well at 45km/hr over you'd be looking at a month impound.... So no. But nothing stopping you driving away in another vehicle.

[XR6Naranja]

Just like to add that I live in NSW of current and I was pulled up doing 65 in a 50 zone, now the zone was previously a 60 zone before road works and bike lanes, and had thought it to of not changed, the extra 5 was going down the hill.

The copper was in the side street, the signs are in low visioned areas, and so I pondered about going to court over the incident rather then losing my job and license.

So I proceeded to look it up, turns out that you cannot go to court under your own will, not the cops, if you haven't held a full license for 1 year.

And myself going to court under the reasons I had which were, he was on a side street, I was told this wasn't allowed truth or not, not sure, he was originally parked not ready to turn at all, and I was going to do my own study and provide a tonne of evidence about previous road works, current state of the street and the location of the signs, but rather cop it on the chin then be laughed at in court if what I provided would get me no where, 3 months no license and $128 fine, maximum from 10-20km over offences.

[wulos]

We're chasing our tails here.
Those that support the changes, will always support them, those that don't won't.
Not amount of arguing about shades of grey, or talk of driving car "x" or fighting in out under condition "y" is going to change that.
Time to move on - at least until the next thread arguing about road law comes along.