The 'Automotive Environmental' Thread - Electric Cars/Fuel Quality/Alternative Fuel

[au2000]

Herald sun today ran a article re melbourne's new hi tech tram fleet, summary of that article is that due to introduction of these new trams, the network needs 20 new substations built as the current systems cannot supply enough power, as a result these substations are being built in residential areas with the first completed one copping fines off the EPA as the hum they produce is past acceptable levels for local residents, so my real point is this , if we can't currently supply enough power to adequately part of our public transport network, how the hell are we gonna do it for every household with a electric car?

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by au2000

Herald sun today ran a article re melbourne's new hi tech tram fleet, summary of that article is that due to introduction of these new trams, the network needs 20 new substations built as the current systems cannot supply enough power, as a result these substations are being built in residential areas with the first completed one copping fines off the EPA as the hum they produce is past acceptable levels for local residents, so my real point is this , if we can't currently supply enough power to adequately part of our public transport network, how the hell are we gonna do it for every household with a electric car?

This would be figured out by the smart engineers, as the world uses more electricity every year.

50 years ago we used a tiny fraction of electricity, it will be easily solved its not that complex.

In Norway 60% of their new cars are EVs, their grid is ok.

Shenzen China it has converted all 22,000 taxis and 16,000 buses to electric !!!

Have a look at the smartphones 10 years ago.

[PG2]

Originally Posted by kmav23

This would be figured out by the smart engineers, as the world uses more electricity every year.

50 years ago we used a tiny fraction of electricity, it will be easily solved its not that complex.

In Norway 60% of their new cars are EVs, their grid is ok.

Shenzen China it has converted all 22,000 taxis and 16,000 buses to electric !!!

Have a look at the smartphones 10 years ago.

kmav, you said this in another thread.

Norway's grid and Australia's grid(s) do not compare and this goes for China's as well.

I'll concede that things like solar and wind will help ease that demand on our grid but it is not going to be enough for the demand that EV's will create.

You have to admit, that if everyone in Australia was to buy an EV tomorrow the grid would not cope.

Considering this, when do you think Australia will be ready for everyone to own EVs?

Originally Posted by kmav23

This would be figured out by the smart engineers, as the world uses more electricity every year.

50 years ago we used a tiny fraction of electricity, it will be easily solved its not that complex.

In Norway 60% of their new cars are EVs, their grid is ok.

Shenzen China it has converted all 22,000 taxis and 16,000 buses to electric !!!

Have a look at the smartphones 10 years ago.

Not being smart but if it is not that complex, then try and explain to someone as dumb as me.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by PG2

kmav,




Not being smart but if it is not that complex, then try and explain to someone as dumb as me.

^^^^^^^^^^^Plus one to This. ^^^^^^^^^^^^

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by PG2

kmav, you said this in another thread.

Norway's grid and Australia's grid(s) do not compare and this goes for China's as well.

I'll concede that things like solar and wind will help ease that demand on our grid but it is not going to be enough for the demand that EV's will create.

You have to admit, that if everyone in Australia was to buy an EV tomorrow the grid would not cope.

Considering this, when do you think Australia will be ready for everyone to own EVs?

Not being smart but if it is not that complex, then try and explain to someone as dumb as me.

100% EV is not going to happen overnight, there is plenty of time.

To phase out all ice cars will take 20 years, if we stop selling new Ice cars by 2030.

20 years ago Australia has a population of 20 million and people were saying how are we going to handle more people in Australia ?

What about the infrastructure and schools etc blah blah...

We have now an extra 5 million people in Australia.

So in 20 years Australia was able to handle the increase electricity usage of 5 million more people plus people use more electricity overall now.

Other countries have had even greater increases in populations in cities.

[PG2]

Originally Posted by kmav23

100% EV is not going to happen overnight, there is plenty of time.

To phase out all ice cars will take 20 years, if we stop selling new Ice cars by 2030.

20 years ago Australia has a population of 20 million and people were saying how are we going to handle more people in Australia ?

What about the infrastructure and schools etc blah blah...

We have now an extra 5 million people in Australia.

So in 20 years Australia was able to handle the increase electricity usage of 5 million more people plus people use more electricity overall now.

Other countries have had even greater increases in populations in cities.

Granted, that is all true about population increases etc and what we were saying 20 years ago.

Do you think that it will take 20 years though to make petrol/diesel cars almost obsolete? I am thinking more like 10 years, 15 years absolute maximum.

The reason I am thinking that the changeover will happen sooner is that once EVs become mainstream Governments are going to tax the hell out of fuel and diesel due to trying to maintain their tax stream and pressure from environmental/green groups. Also, as more EVs come on line, it will become less and less convenient for people to own, fuel and maintain petrol/diesel cars. The only thing I could see stopping from people from changing over will be the resale of their fossil fuelled vehicles.

Even if as you say by 2050 99% of Australia own EVs I still don't think that with our current crop of political leaders that we will have the infrastructure and/or systems in place for this sort of timeline.

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by PG2

Granted, that is all true about population increases etc and what we were saying 20 years ago.

Do you think that it will take 20 years though to make petrol/diesel cars almost obsolete? I am thinking more like 10 years, 15 years absolute maximum.

The reason I am thinking that the changeover will happen sooner is that once EVs become mainstream Governments are going to tax the hell out of fuel and diesel due to trying to maintain their tax stream and pressure from environmental/green groups. Also, as more EVs come on line, it will become less and less convenient for people to own, fuel and maintain petrol/diesel cars. The only thing I could see stopping from people from changing over will be the resale of their fossil fuelled vehicles.

Even if as you say by 2050 99% of Australia own EVs I still don't think that with our current crop of political leaders that we will have the infrastructure and/or systems in place for this sort of timeline.

I really think you guys are worrying too much about the grid.
In California there has been 500,000 EVs sold so far!

Their grid is okay.

[au2000]

Originally Posted by kmav23

I really think you guys are worrying too much about the grid.
In California there has been 500,000 EVs sold so far!

Their grid is okay.

Again, how about some Aussie power grid references

Callifornia's grid as below

Natural gas-fired power plants typically account for more than one-half of in-state electricity generation. California is one of the largest hydroelectric power producers in the United States, and with adequate rainfall, hydroelectric power typically accounts for close to one-fifth of State electricity generation. Due to strict emission laws, only one coal-fired power plant still operates in California, the 63 MW Argus Cogeneration plant in San Bernardino County.[2]

California leads the nation in electricity generation from non-hydroelectric renewable energy sources, including geothermal power, wind power, and solar power. California has some of the most aggressive renewable energy goals in the United States.[3] The state is required to obtain at least 33% of its electricity from renewable resources by 2020, and 50% by 2030, excluding large hydro.[4][5]Solar Energy Generating Systems (SEGS) is the name given to nine solar power plants in the Mojave Desert which were built in the 1980s. These plants have a combined capacity of 354 megawatts (MW) making them at one time the largest solar power installation in the world.[6] Other large solar plants in the Mojave Desert include the 392 MW Ivanpah Solar Power Facility,[7] opened in 2014, and the 550 MW Desert Sunlight Solar Farm and 579 MW Solar Star, both completed in 2015. The Alta Wind Energy Center in the Tehachapi Mountains is the largest wind power plant in the United States with 1,548 MW installed capacity.[8] A facility known as “The Geysers,” located in the Mayacamas Mountains north of San Francisco, is the largest group of geothermal power plants in the world, with more than 750 MW of installed capacity. California’s hydroelectric power potential ranks second in the United States (behind Washington State), and substantial geothermal and wind power resources are found along the coastal mountain ranges and the eastern border with Nevada. High solar power potential is found in southeastern California’s deserts.

Natural gas is half of their suppy and oh wait, hydro Is one fifth

[cs123]

Originally Posted by PG2

The reason I am thinking that the changeover will happen sooner is that once EVs become mainstream Governments are going to tax the hell out of fuel and diesel due to trying to maintain their tax stream

You'll be just like us smokers. Welcome and enjoy the reaming...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by PG2

Granted, that is all true about population increases etc and what we were saying 20 years ago.

Do you think that it will take 20 years though to make petrol/diesel cars almost obsolete? I am thinking more like 10 years, 15 years absolute maximum.

The reason I am thinking that the changeover will happen sooner is that once EVs become mainstream Governments are going to tax the hell out of fuel and diesel due to trying to maintain their tax stream and pressure from environmental/green groups. Also, as more EVs come on line, it will become less and less convenient for people to own, fuel and maintain petrol/diesel cars. The only thing I could see stopping from people from changing over will be the resale of their fossil fuelled vehicles.

Even if as you say by 2050 99% of Australia own EVs I still don't think that with our current crop of political leaders that we will have the infrastructure and/or systems in place for this sort of timeline.

They tried to hike taxes on diesel and ban diesel cars in France and look what that started when people realised they were going to get the pinecone with no lube:



If the Government tries to hike fuel prices massively prior to them becoming mainstream/viable under some BS environmental excuse people will crack the ****s big time.

In my opinion its not happening before 2050 here unless there is exponential leaps and bounds in battery technology and power infrastructure in Australia.

We cant even have a train line prior to 2045 from Melbourne CBD to Melbourne Airport because we sold our soul to Transurban and NBN is still going after only a single government change a term in before the dismantled it.

Unless you get rid of 3 year election cycles in Australia and overhaul our political system, we can't do long term infrastructure projects exceeding two election cycles.

Voting doesn't overhaul political systems, history shows the only way political systems change is by violence.

You won't ever be able to pull of massive infrastructure projects like China can knock out hand over fist, they have a one party state and they do what they want without opposition - the byproduct of our democracy is that we spend much more time arguing on the fringes than actually building things.

If you're going to pull off long term infrastructure projects you need a government to go a few terms with a significant majority in both houses with a leader who can control the party with an iron fist - so far we've had like 36 prime ministers in the last decade with two major political parties with factions who don't see eye to eye with each other.

[ozrunner]

Originally Posted by kmav23

……….20 years ago Australia has a population of 20 million and people were saying how are we going to handle more people in Australia ?...………….We have now an extra 5 million people in Australia...………………….So in 20 years Australia was able to handle the increase electricity usage of 5 million more people plus people use more electricity overall now.

Are you for real. 20 years ago to now we had increases in coal fired power stations etc etc so this extra 5 million peoples electrical needs were nothing in the scheme of things.

But now ideological idiots are closing these down but we will still need more electricity for further population increases and now for freaking EV charging. Where's all that coming from Einstein.

And don't come up with renewables as you just have to look at SA for a classic example of what NOT to do in relation to the renewable energy BS "bandwagon industry".

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by ozrunner

Are you for real. 20 years ago to now we had increases in coal fired power stations etc etc so this extra 5 million peoples electrical needs were nothing in the scheme of things.

But now ideological idiots are closing these down but we will still need more electricity for further population increases and now for freaking EV charging. Where's all that coming from Einstein.

And don't come up with renewables as you just have to look at SA for a classic example of what NOT to do in relation to the renewable energy BS "bandwagon industry".

Renewables were not the problem is SA. The battery has been a real winner in SA as well. Coal plants are closing around the world, renewables are getting cheaper. Eventually all will be closed in Australia as we have plenty of renewable sources.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by kmav23

Renewables were not the problem is SA. The battery has been a real winner in SA as well. Coal plants are closing around the world, renewables are getting cheaper. Eventually all will be closed in Australia as we have plenty of renewable sources.

Renewables are getting cheaper, yes. However coal plants are on a net increase, a massive increase. Why? China and India. If you believe in the link between CO2 and global warming/climate change; and if you believe that the upper level CO2 emission levels will lead to climate catastrophe, then we're toast, no matter what Australia does.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/c...buildup-2018-9

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45640706

https://www.theepochtimes.com/china-...y_2679901.html

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by kmav23

This would be figured out by the smart engineers, as the world uses more electricity every year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGUNPMPrxvA

President Camacho : "Number 1: We've got this guy Not Sure. Number 2: He's got a higher IQ than ANY MAN ALIVE. and Number 3: He's going to fix EVERYTHING."