HSV GTS LSA lettuce tomato & special sauce on a sesame seed bun

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by wildrider

but you might drive it and be disappointed with the power?? remembering that HSVs and SS seem too lose a lot of power via driveline and the 430kw at the fly wheel might only be 340rwkw?? HSVs and V8 SS are proof of this. just have too look on youtube for proof of this. that's why I don't see what the big deal is about it for less money you could get a F6 or GT tuned and would have more power or if you could buy an E2 play with it a little and get more power and it would still work out cheaper. if you want power there are cheaper ways of doing it then buying a new GTS

Fine if you are all about POWARRRR!

From what I am reading, those that are tempted or are giving respect are not swayed purely on maximum power and torque alone, but are swayed by that often used term 'total package' including all the different coolers, 9.9" diff, massive stoppers, suspension, etc - which as has also been mentioned many times, has not been tested, and there are no real world figures (yet) for a direct comparison to see if it delivers what it promises.

Until then, all anyone can go on is the spec sheet, which at this stage is quite impressive (bar price) if you do more than just traffic light drags or 1/4 miles - and even then it may still prove impressive at the drags or from green to the next red - or not, as it is yet to be seen if this will deliver the promised superior cornering, braking, and longevity of spirited driving - and as much as all those specs are mega, so is the price.

So yeah, it is possible they may not be as impressed with the power, but may be blown away with the handling, stopping, and ability to take sustained abuse - then also enjoy the gadgets when stuck in their daily commute.

Really is a matter of time - or some tests that deliver times - and then those into no more than power and straight lines can compare dyno figures and 1/4 mile times, and those that are in to spirited driving around a circuit or their favourite bit of black top can assess its suitability and possible superiority (or not).

Won't be long before we know if this horse suits our preferred course, whatever course that may be.

And despite the lettuce, tomato and special sauce - still not available in Country Pack

[BigKerp79]

I wouldn't write it off yet. That engine does really well in the chevs.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by Iggle Piggle

Fine if you are all about POWARRRR!

From what I am reading, those that are tempted or are giving respect are not swayed purely on maximum power and torque alone, but are swayed by that often used term 'total package' including all the different coolers, 9.9" diff, massive stoppers, suspension, etc - which as has also been mentioned many times, has not been tested, and there are no real world figures (yet) for a direct comparison to see if it delivers what it promises.

Until then, all anyone can go on is the spec sheet, which at this stage is quite impressive (bar price) if you do more than just traffic light drags or 1/4 miles - and even then it may still prove impressive at the drags or from green to the next red - or not, as it is yet to be seen if this will deliver the promised superior cornering, braking, and longevity of spirited driving - and as much as all those specs are mega, so is the price.

So yeah, it is possible they may not be as impressed with the power, but may be blown away with the handling, stopping, and ability to take sustained abuse - then also enjoy the gadgets when stuck in their daily commute.

Really is a matter of time - or some tests that deliver times - and then those into no more than power and straight lines can compare dyno figures and 1/4 mile times, and those that are in to spirited driving around a circuit or their favourite bit of black top can assess its suitability and possible superiority (or not).

Won't be long before we know if this horse suits our preferred course, whatever course that may be.

And despite the lettuce, tomato and special sauce - still not available in Country Pack

I agree but it doesn't stop some of the holden fan brigade and media bragging about its POWARRRR! claims plus the fact that some people think that because it has 430kw that FPV has nothing over that. power isn't everything but when I read someone say they want to buy a new GTS because of its power you have too wonder and the fact they love the power of a car they haven't yet driven makes me laugh. I personally cant wait too see the comparisons and also against the European luxury 4 doors seeing HSV think there on par with them

http://www.caradvice.com.au/231042/h...5-rs6-e63-amg/

[UberKnee]

Its amazing how well tacky can sell. Not having a go at Holden in particular, but just the HSV's have gotten more and more tacky and ridiculous looking with more speed holes, random blacked out spots, etc. Subtle and/or the old principle of KISS doesnt seem to matter much at all anymore.

[UberKnee]

Does price enter into the unmodded v unmodded, modded v modded, unmodded v modded argument?

When you're talking $100k for a GTS compared to $70k for a GT or $50k for a GS, both of which give similar power to the GTS and equal if not surpass it after a tune.

For those prices the Ford and Holden are in different markets and can't really be compared.

[grandpa_spec_F6]

I think ill just kick back and enjoy what my kids will probably never get to experience in their lifetime.... two very iconic aussie built cars / platforms duking it out where HPand v8's are king.

lets all just agree that in this day and age we are spoilt rotten for choice when it comes these locally made monstors

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by grandpa_spec_F6

I think ill just kick back and enjoy what my kids will probably never get to experience in their lifetime.... two very iconic aussie built cars / platforms duking it out where HPand v8's are king.

lets all just agree that in this day and age we are spoilt rotten for choice when it comes these locally made monstors

we actually are quiet lucky too witness this. I hope it never ends but I reckon it will eventually. maybe not 2016 but it will end. either the manufactures will go or the "fun police" will stop them

[sleek7]

Looks OK, great specs on in, the rear end will need some getting used to that's for sure. Almost like an ugly child that only a mother can love...
Although I definitely wouldn't knock one back if I won it or got one very cheap, if I had ~$100k to spend on a car I would be looking else where.

[BEN189]

Wow, what a car, probably best bang for your buck car of all time with everything you get with it. I've always said I wouldn't spend $80-$100k on a falcon or a commodore but looking at this GTS I may change my opinion. Will FPV respond? I highly doubt it.

[BigKerp79]

Originally Posted by BEN189

Wow, what a car, probably best bang for your buck car of all time with everything you get with it. I've always said I wouldn't spend $80-$100k on a falcon or a commodore but looking at this GTS I may change my opinion. Will FPV respond? I highly doubt it.

Yeah I reckon that ford may lose a few of the faithful to the enemy.

[burnz]

where is it written 100+K price tag?

yet I hear 88~95k plus on roads.

[strik9]

as you can imagine ,they a laughing at fpv over on the hsv forum.
think the 335 has had its day in the sun now.

[Falcon SXR8]

What I will never understand is why did fpv underate the power figure on the gt ??? It boggles my mind on a performance car that you would do that. Its like the toyota guys advertising the 86 as handling slightly better than a corolla, is that gunna get people excited. HSV always just stick the biggest figure they got on there car and it makes people stand up and take notice. FPV should have imo stuck 380kw on there blown gt back when it was released and made people stand up and look. As it stands now it looks like HSV is up roughly 100kw over ford to the general public.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

What I will never understand is why did fpv underate the power figure on the gt ??? It boggles my mind on a performance car that you would do that. Its like the toyota guys advertising the 86 as handling slightly better than a corolla, is that gunna get people excited. HSV always just stick the biggest figure they got on there car and it makes people stand up and take notice. FPV should have imo stuck 380kw on there blown gt back when it was released and made people stand up and look. As it stands now it looks like HSV is up roughly 100kw over ford to the general public.

At a guess they didn't want the launch of the Miami to be overshadowed with super car scare stories. Another would be if the driveline proved to be a problem reliability/warranty wise, they could detune existing customers cars without breaking the promised performance the badge said the car has.

[Fireblade]

Lets all wait for real world figures before we roll over and surrender to HSV.

Burnz, the GTS is $95k retail with the carbon brake option pushing it over $100k then you add LCT and on roads and the ACTUAL cost of buying the car is well over $100k.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Fireblade

Lets all wait for real world figures before we roll over and surrender to HSV.

Precisely. All this techdickery and add-ons will come at a figurative price, and I'd love to know the kerb weight of this car. I'm guessing the 40kg weight difference of the VF vie a vie the VE has been blown to smithereens.

The other thing is: Ford still have the intercooled Miami up their sleeve. Whilst Prodrive took the development car with them, as I understand it the dev work was by and large finished at the time of the takeover by Ford, so for Ford, there shouldn't be an up-front 30 to 40 million dollar spend again on a new performance engine. This gives them the ability to focus some attention on other areas of the car to make it more competitive.

Of course whether they actually do it is another thing entirely.

[jpd80]

Perhaps now that FPV is under Ford control, there is opportunity to better position the cars
against their competition in terms of price, performance and features.

We often jump to the crowning glory hero car but maybe the real battle should be improving the GS to a point
where HSV just cannot compete, give it the GT package and make the new GT same as R-Spec but with intercooler..

Or ,
"Why does my $100K 430 Kw HSV struggle to dispense a 2014 GS with a mere 335Kw?"

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Perhaps now that FPV is under Ford control, there is opportunity to better position the cars
against their competition in terms of price, performance and features.

We often jump to the crowning glory hero car but maybe the real battle should be improving the GS to a point
where HSV just cannot compete, give it the GT package and make the new GT same as R-Spec but with intercooler..

Or ,
"Why does my $100K 430 Kw HSV struggle to dispense a 2014 GS with a mere 335Kw?"

The only way to beef the GS up in spec and not upset GT owners, would be if the GT-E/GT-P bits were added to the base GT. Not a bad idea, but I don't think just a higher engine output, would please GT owners.

Alternatively GS goes away and reappears as the XR8 the next day with less stripes, different wheels and a 15K price cut.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

The only way to beef the GS up in spec and not upset GT owners, would be if the GT-E/GT-P bits were added to the base GT. Not a bad idea, but I don't think just a higher engine output, would please GT owners.

Alternatively GS goes away and reappears as the XR8 the next day with less stripes, different wheels and a 15K price cut.

Why could Ford do all of the above, a basic 315 XR8, a 335Kw GS (Former GT) and a new GT (R-Spec plus intercooled V8)
I think the way the R-Spec sold out so quickly was an indication that Prodrive knew exactly what was needed by GT buyers..

I remeber Flappist's enlightened view on car customisation and how most options can be covered but some have to be
done by prospective owners to get the type of interior desired, maybe this is a idea that Ford could outsource as part
of future GTE packages....really plush sumptuous interiors worthy of the cash paid for them..

[Stefan]

I think the 100K pricing is a BIG issue for any falcodor variant be it HSV FPV what ever.

If I had $100K to blow on a 4 door performance sedan I'd be hard pressed to go past a second hand C63, plenty of beauties at that price.

Take looks into consideration at it is no contest at all, C63 all the way.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Stefan

I think the 100K pricing is a BIG issue for any falcodor variant be it HSV FPV what ever.

.

Really is 100k that much for something so special? The average buyer who trades in their Kia Sportage every 3 years would have ended up spending close to 100k in a decade. At least with a GTS or FU GTHO, it is the kind of car you can keep forever and pass on to your grand kids... Imagine going for cruises around the retirement village scaring the other grandpas and grandmas.

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Really is 100k that much for something so special? The average buyer who trades in their Kia Sportage every 3 years would have ended up spending close to 100k in a decade. At least with a GTS or FU GTHO, it is the kind of car you can keep forever and pass on to your grand kids... Imagine going for cruises around the retirement village scaring the other grandpas and grandmas.

I doubt your cost comparisons would add up? Take into account maintenance, rego, insurance etc, and I don't think that it would be a good investment. And I also reckon 100k is a hell of a lot of money whether it be for a car or not.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Really is 100k that much for something so special? The average buyer who trades in their Kia Sportage every 3 years would have ended up spending close to 100k in a decade. At least with a GTS or FU GTHO, it is the kind of car you can keep forever and pass on to your grand kids... Imagine going for cruises around the retirement village scaring the other grandpas and grandmas.

Based on that theory a rather worn out 300,000++ km ratty looking old commodore that used to be quite quick.......

[devoGT]

Originally Posted by Fireblade

Burnz, the GTS is $95k retail with the carbon brake option pushing it over $100k then you add LCT and on roads and the ACTUAL cost of buying the car is well over $100k.

The six pot calipers are standard on GTS, no option for better brakes on VF GTS.

This thread is longer than the GTS threads on Holden forums

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by devoGT

The six pot calipers are standard on GTS, no option for better brakes on VF GTS.

This thread is longer than the GTS threads on Holden forums

It's not so much about dragging down the GTS, it's more about how Ford and FPV intends to respond
or whether in fact FPV needs to do anything at all..

[burnz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It's not so much about dragging down the GTS, it's more about how Ford and FPV intends to respond
or whether in fact FPV needs to do anything at all..

FPV should try and respond, for their lack of sale's...

[flappist]

Badges smadges.......

How soon everyone forgets the 290kw V8 that had trouble competing with a 245kw rival.
Or the 270kw contender that humbled the mighty 325kw "king".

When there have been independent tests of actual production vehicles not "press specials" only then will the true story unfold.....

[ford man xf]

Is anyone else a bit suss on the 150 deposit claim? Sounds to me like a brillant publicity stunt, it made the papers and even one radio news segment that I heard plus it creates a bit of paranoia amongst prospective buyers that they may miss out or have to wait a long time to order one

[krypto71]

I've always liked the HSV's thru the years, but I think in the case of Gen-F, I'd rather a V8 Calais, lowered with some nice big rims.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

Is anyone else a bit suss on the 150 deposit claim? Sounds to me like a brillant publicity stunt, it made the papers and even one radio news segment that I heard plus it creates a bit of paranoia amongst prospective buyers that they may miss out or have to wait a long time to order one

Well a flock of seagulls may have flown over the factory, they leave deposits on everything.......