Mullaly confirms Falcon and Mustang to share platform from 2016

[FPV GTHO]

How hard is it to get the engine sitting behind the front wheel line with a FWD? Too much of a nightmare with crash testing and still getting the engine/transmission to submarine underneath the safety cell?

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I know someone who was involved in three separate reviews of developing a FWD/RWD/AWD multi platform.
While it seems like an accountants dream, the reality is that there's so much tear up and redo between a
FWD and RWD car that the whole thing doesn't cost out well. Each time the verdict came down that
separate FWD and RWD platforms was more cost effective.

As I understand it, the majority of engineering and crash test data centres around the front end
and the changes needed to package engines for FWD and RWD is completely different.

A FWD car packages the engine and gearbox for ward of the front wheels, allowing the front seats to
move further forward and foot wells to move inside the inner guards. By comparison, a RWD engine
like the I-6 sits half of the engine behind the front axle necessitating a firewall and foot wells
positioned in line with the back of the inner guards.

Now, if you consider that designers try to get the maximum space utilisation out of a given platform,
it's easy to see how conflicted a FWD and RWD combined platform would be. Sure, you could stick a
transverse I-4 or V6 engine in a Falcon but look at the huge gap behind the wheels, what do you do with that?

And then there's the question of crash properties, a FWD car has completely different crash properties
and force vectoring compared to a RWD vehicle with a North/South engine...

Well put.


I don't see the point in Taurus' design. Being FWD it's supposed to be packaged better than a similarly sized RWD: It's neither roomier than the Falcon (As Raptor pointed out), although being externally bigger. And nor is it lighter.

Meaning to say it's nowhere near as economical as a hypothetical 3.7 litre V6 Falcon.

Let's see if they do it better next time. In all fairness, Mulally gave them a very short deadline (2 years?) to get it to market.

[Ghiadude]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

How hard is it to get the engine sitting behind the front wheel line with a FWD? Too much of a nightmare with crash testing and still getting the engine/transmission to submarine underneath the safety cell?

I dont know how much it would cost BUT surely this compromised FWD would be cheaper than a whole new platform SURELY? Lets face it the economy concious buyers of a falcon FWD platform wont give a toss if the handling isnt up to par. But if FoA could achieve this on the falcon platform just got a whole lot more interesting. I understand that the engine is USUALLY ahead of the front wheels - but what if they made it so it wasnt???

[jpd80]

FWD vehicles need to have their engines forward of the front wheels to provide maximum
down force to the driving wheels, placing the engine rearwards is a recipe for disaster
and invites loss of traction at moderate power levels.

A better plan would be for Ford to revisit the EUCD Mondeo, its track and wheelbase is almost
identical to Falcon yet rides on a narrower body. If the body width was increased to Falcon proportions,
V6 engineering done and AWD added, you'd have the ideal replacement for North America's Fusion
and a Taurus variant would be possible on a longer wheelbase.

Once the FWD line up has been consolidated and positioned in the market, how RWD cars role in the
product line up becomes clearer. Being performance orientated, you can ask more money for them.....

[banarcus]

FWD is also good for slippery, icey or snow covered roads. Especially in the United States.

[outback_ute]

Note that Audi and Subaru have their longitudinal FWD/AWD setups, which could be used in a RWD format.

Also after seeing a 2010 Mustang up at Emerald last month I think a size comparison with the Falcon would be pretty interesting - got numbers to play with now.

As a side note, the Toyota iQ has the engine behind the axle line, to move the wheel wells forward out of the cabin area. This could be done to larger cars also, it would mean that the weight distribution would be more even, although not by a large amount, say 66/34 to 60/40.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by outback_ute

Note that Audi and Subaru have their longitudinal FWD/AWD setups, which could be used in a RWD format.

Also after seeing a 2010 Mustang up at Emerald last month I think a size comparison with the Falcon would be pretty interesting - got numbers to play with now.

As a side note, the Toyota iQ has the engine behind the axle line, to move the wheel wells forward out of the cabin area. This could be done to larger cars also, it would mean that the weight distribution would be more even, although not by a large amount, say 66/34 to 60/40.

I'll talk in Imperial measurements for the benefit of older generation and international viewers:

FG Falcon:
Length: 195"
Wheelbase: 111.7"
Combined overhang: 83.3"

2010 Mustang:
Length: 188"
Wheelbase: 107.9"
Combined overhang: 80.1"

When you look at the Mustang and the Falcon
apart from the different overall length and wheelbase,
Falcon has only 3.2" more combined overhang....

The Mustang is 7" shorter than the Falcon, not that much eh?

[vztrt]

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...303-1bfj6.html

Aussies could design the next Ford Mustang Richard Blackburn
March 3, 2011 - 11:54AM

The next version of the iconic pony car could have a distinctly Australian flavour.

Australians could design one of America's greatest motoring icons, with Ford Australia's Broadmeadows design studio asked to submit styling ideas for the next-generation Mustang.

The studio recently designed another traditional American staple, the Ranger "pick-up" truck that is being sold around the globe.

Ford's group vice-president for global product development, Derrick Kuzak, told US automotive industry newsletter, Automotive News, that an Australian design would be among a handful of global designs considered for the next generation Mustang, due in 2014 or 2015.

Advertisement: Story continues below In the past, Ford's US studio was solely responsible for the design of the famous "Pony Car", the performance hero of the Blue Oval line-up.

"It is a common process we [now] use on every vehicle," Kuzak told Automotive News.

"The Ranger was done by the Australian studio with input from the European studio," Kuzak told the publication during an interview at the Geneva motor show. The Ranger was the first global vehicle designed Down Under and had its global reveal at the Sydney motor show.

The news of the Mustang design opportunity is a much-needed shot in the arm for Ford's Australian operation, which is under growing pressure in the face of dwindling sales of its locally-built Falcon, Territory and Falcon ute.

Sales of locally built Fords have almost halved in the past five years as buyers have flocked to smaller cars, and things have got even worse this year, with sales in the first two months dropping by almost a third.

The decline has thrown the future of the Falcon into doubt, and it now appears almost certain that the current model will be the last to be designed and engineered in Australia. Ford executives in the US have all but confirmed the next Falcon will be based on the US-designed Taurus and will be front-wheel-drive instead of the rear-drive layout that has served the Falcon for more than 50 years and was once seen as a crucial part of its DNA.

[Polyal]

All but confirmed FWD...ah when? Pretty flippant statement.

[vztrt]

Ford Australia part of next Mustang’s design

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257848001891B1

Product boss reveals Ford Australia has role in reshaping America’s iconic pony car

3 March 2011

By TERRY MARTIN

FORD’S next-generation Mustang could have a distinctly Australian flavour, with Ford Australia’s Broadmeadows-based design team involved in submitting styling ideas for the redesigned muscle car to head office in Detroit.

Ford Motor Company’s group vice-president for global product development, Derrick Kuzak, has told US industry journal Automotive News at the Geneva motor show this week that studios outside North America have, for the first time in the Mustang’s 47-year history, become involved in styling the iconic sportscar.

He also used the Australian designed and engineered Ranger utility – the first global vehicle designed by Ford Australia – as an example of international product co-operation now being used across the Ford world.

“It is a common process we (now) use on every vehicle,” Mr Kuzak told AN.

“When we embark on a new product, particularly one that is all-new, it involves all of the studios. Then J (Mays) and the design team pick the best of those themes.”

Mr Mays is Ford’s group vice-president of global design and chief creative officer. He told GoAuto at the Detroit motor show in January that Ford Australia was also competing with design studios in Dearborn (US), Dunton (UK) and Cologne (Germany) to win the contract for the next-generation Falcon – a final decision on which is due soon and is likely to see a move to a front-wheel drive platform.

Mr Mays said “I wouldn’t be holding my breath for rear-wheel drive” for future Falcons, while at the Paris motor show last September he told us that Ford Australia’s design team was involved in four different programs, one of which now appears to be the Mustang.

“They are contributing to major programs that we are working on, whether they are sold in Australia or not,” Mr Mays said in Paris. “We have got them involved in four different programs at the moment.

“They are an integral part of our design organisation … on everything from trucks to passenger cars.

“Next Falcon is just starting to shape up, and they’re contributing to that as well. We have a global team, and a global design competition on the design programs, and the Broadmeadows team, along with Cologne and Dearborn, are all working on derivatives.”

With Mustang, Ford has not confirmed whether the design and development program in which Australia is involved includes engineering, as was the case with Ranger and which Holden enjoys as the design and engineering source for Mustang’s arch-rival, the Chevrolet Camaro.

Camaro is built off the same vehicle architecture as the Commodore, known as Zeta.

If the Mustang development program does include engineering, this could explain Ford’s reluctance to confirm in absolute terms whether the next Falcon will move to a front-drive vehicle architecture shared with models such as the US Taurus, or remain rear-wheel drive on a development of the pony car’s platform.

Overseas reports indicate that the new-generation Mustang and Falcon are both due to appear in 2015.

In Geneva, Mr Kuzak told Automotive News that Ford’s Dearborn studio will have responsibility to turn the selected styling theme for the Mustang – a car he described as “not just an icon in North America, it is an icon globally” – into a production vehicle.

As GoAuto has reported, Holden’s Port Melbourne-based design team was also recently asked to submit a design for the seventh-generation Chevrolet Corvette, which if adopted could result in the iconic American muscle car being styled by a GM design team outside the US for the first time in its history.

A spokesman for Ford Australia was unable to confirm whether the Broadmeadows design team was working specifically on the next-generation Mustang, adding that it was not a certainty that engineering would also be part of any development program.

“While we have the capability here to design and engineer an all-new vehicle – as with (the) coming Ranger – by virtue of the fact we are part of the design proposal process does not in any way mean we will be engineering the vehicle as well,” he said.

Ford Australia is also understood to be currently involved in developing a compact car for the Chinese market, following on from the (previous-generation) Fiesta-based Figo light car it has developed for India.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by vztrt

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...303-1bfj6.html

Way to go Blackburn. Whenever you get the chance to have a positive story about Ford Australia, you always end with a Falcon will die or go FWD.

Fact is with the Territory now getting the 6R80 transmission behind the diesel engine (confirmed in 2011 Territory thread) which is the Ford 'corporate' gearbox that is a licensed carbon copy of the ZF (including the ratios) it means that Ford Australia and it's Falcon and Territory models are being ever more integrated into the Ford Global pool. Add the RWD Ecoboost into that too, which will almost certainly have the 6R80 too.

We are getting the latest PCM for engine / gearbox control and 'gizmos' as used in the latest global Fords.

We have the Coyote based supercharged Miami. Will be getting NA Coyote for XR8/G8E too.

Then add our suspension sets (FG / SZ alloy wishbone front and rear controlblade which may go alloy too) and how the Americans want them in Mustang/Lincoln. It starts to make a compelling case for GRWD in whatever form that takes.

It is highly encouraging that Ford Australia is considered for designing the next gen Mustang!

[SM1DY]

Originally Posted by phillyc

We have the Coyote based supercharged Miami. Will be getting NA Coyote for XR8/G8E too.

I must've missed where that was confirmed

[Burnout]

Originally Posted by Mr Mays

“I wouldn’t be holding my breath for rear-wheel drive” for future Falcons.

The end for Falcon..........no aussie built car could make a comeback from this. Sales are low enough now, this design move will kill falcon.........Bloke won't even be able to buy a decent Ute.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Burnout

Bloke won't even be able to buy a decent Ute.

Keep rebuilding the decent ute you want. I know when Falcon goes I'm never buying a new car, I'll be one of the second hand brigade.

[Burnout]

Originally Posted by Burnout

Bloke won't even be able to buy a decent Ute.

Originally Posted by vztrt

Keep rebuilding the decent ute you want. I know when Falcon goes I'm never buying a new car, I'll be one of the second hand brigade.

You have a point of course, I just wonder how long some of this electronic stuff will last, already know of a couple of BA EEC's spitting the dummy on a tune. How many starts/checks will a BEM cope with.....etc..
Might have to go back the XH or something.

[Polyal]

I wouldn't be slitting your wrists just yet Burnout...have faith that the right decision will be made (RWD off shared platform). FoA has been pretty good to Ford...hopefully the favour is returned.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I wouldn't be slitting your wrists just yet Burnout...have faith that the right decision will be made (RWD off shared platform). FoA has been pretty good to Ford...hopefully the favour is returned.

The sad truth is that Ford Australia have probably historically been less good to themselves than Ford HQ have been to them.

There had been offers of using the Australian Boss 5.4 intake and putting it into the FRPP catalog. Ford Aus said no to that lucrative deal...

Ford US wanted Australia to use the alloy modular engine for the AU. We kept the Windsor. For the BA, we had the option of the iron blocked supercharged 4.6L (Terminator - under rated at 291kW/529Nm - actually about 330kW/570Nm), but we cobbled together the Boss 260/290 instead. Just think, each time GMHolden/HSV upped their badge by 10kW. We could've just added 1/2psi of boost.

I think both parties now realise what they have. Ford Aus is a terrific engineering and design resource. I hope we continue to manufacture here. I believe we will.

In the Falcon and Terri, we have enviable suspensions, RWD engineered One Ford powertrains (Coyote/EcoBoost/6R80) and a very good platform. Ford US have terrific powertrain, electrics and marketing.

[Quicksand]

Originally Posted by phillyc

It is highly encouraging that Ford Australia is considered for designing the next gen Mustang!

Is it? Or is it just a case that they are going to take away our RWD Falcon and to water it down, they will give us development of the next RWD Mustang instead?

"You cant have the Falcon, sorry, but this should tide you over for now. Its the next best thing".

I dont care what people say. The Mustang is great, but it is NO substitute for the Falcon. Good luck fitting three baby seats in the back of a Mustang.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Quicksand

Is it? Or is it just a case that they are going to take away our RWD Falcon and to water it down, they will give us development of the next RWD Mustang instead?

"You cant have the Falcon, sorry, but this should tide you over for now. Its the next best thing".

I dont care what people say. The Mustang is great, but it is NO substitute for the Falcon. Good luck fitting three baby seats in the back of a Mustang.

Barely anyone even uses Falcons or Commodores for family cars anymore, everyone has SUVs, they're the new "in thing" and that section of the market sells a LOT of cars.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by Quicksand

Is it? Or is it just a case that they are going to take away our RWD Falcon and to water it down, they will give us development of the next RWD Mustang instead?

"You cant have the Falcon, sorry, but this should tide you over for now. Its the next best thing".

I dont care what people say. The Mustang is great, but it is NO substitute for the Falcon. Good luck fitting three baby seats in the back of a Mustang.

Mullaly was very impressed with the Falcon after he drove one a couple of years back, most thought (myself included) that this meant a GRWD Falcon. Instead because of alot of mitigating circumstances it's looking like the Mustang will go global (with some input from Ford Australia)

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Barely anyone even uses Falcons or Commodores for family cars anymore, everyone has SUVs, they're the new "in thing" and that section of the market sells a LOT of cars.

Yep i'll take a Mustang and plenty of FPV owners would too.

No crap, if they bought out a right hook GT500 at 75K I can think of four sales off the top of my head.... all sharing my surname, and that's before you get to the GT/Boss302 range.

I wonder how many people buy a 4 door FPV because it has 4 doors, and not because they have no choice?

Daniel

[Flat Top]

Originally Posted by vztrt

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...303-1bfj6.html

Now that makes a lot of sense , Australia has the credo to do it and the technical capabilities. Wonder how they are gonna "get government money this time??

[aquahead2001]

Originally Posted by Flat Top

Now that makes a lot of sense , Australia has the credo to do it and the technical capabilities. Wonder how they are gonna "get government money this time??

Have a look at this for the team from Drive, hammering another nail in the still open coffin of Falcon....

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...304-1bh3k.html

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by CAT600

Yep i'll take a Mustang and plenty of FPV owners would too.

No crap, if they bought out a right hook GT500 at 75K I can think of four sales off the top of my head.... all sharing my surname, and that's before you get to the GT/Boss302 range.

I wonder how many people buy a 4 door FPV because it has 4 doors, and not because they have no choice?

Daniel

I started a poll a while ago regarding this.. you're certainly not alone.
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...928&page=1&pp=

The next Mustang (~2014) is said to be smaller, lighter, and available with IRS. It will come in a range of motors starting off with a 2 litre Ecoboost, 3.7 V6, 3.5 Ecoboost, and of course, the 5 litre (which won't be promoted as heavily as the Ecoboost motors). Lincoln (and whatever else that may tickle the fancy) will also also have a coupe based off the same...

Then you have the larger four door models based off another platform; for premium Grand Tourers and Luxo-barges and whatnot. This could be developed here for the global market, because I know for a fact that there's a very strong case in Lincoln wanting the high-end FGs.

If Ford ever pull their fingers out and make the Mustang in RHD then I think we're going to be too spoiled for choice.

[Bossxr8]

Don't know where I read it but the writer was saying the 2014 Mustang will still have a live axle.

Who knows where he got his info so needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

[jpd80]

Design does not equal engineering, the input from other regions goes to style changes only
while the home room (FNA) incorporates those changes into it's development and engineering.



Go back to the very start, while Mustang and Falcon shared a lot of parts they were never the same platform.

Falcon and Territory are not the same platform but share around 40% of parts, about right for
true derivatives to maintain uniqueness but the parts they do share like power train, electricals
and suspension design are high cost modules while things like floor pan, shell, trim and glass
all add to the uniqueness of each vehicle, why can't it be the same for three vehicles like
Falcon, Territory and Mustang but still keeping their own uniqueness?

[FG XR]

mmm mustang

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by Quicksand

Is it? Or is it just a case that they are going to take away our RWD Falcon and to water it down, they will give us development of the next RWD Mustang instead?

"You cant have the Falcon, sorry, but this should tide you over for now. Its the next best thing".

I dont care what people say. The Mustang is great, but it is NO substitute for the Falcon. Good luck fitting three baby seats in the back of a Mustang.

Ford (and Holden) have been slowly pushing the Falcon and Commodore 'upmarket' for the last few years (with a greater emphasis on sports and luxury models) Who's to say Ford Oz wouldnt sell more Mustangs/2 door Falcons than the current 4 door XRs and FPVs while offering the option of/slowly pushing family men (and women) into sporty SUVs/people movers/Mondeo or Taurus?

The thing with a car like Mustang is that the car maker can focus on making a properly sporty car without compromising on packaging for a family car.

[SteveJH]

I don't like the mustang, its too retro for my liking. Now something like an XKR on the other hand.....

Unfortunately an XKR is out of most poeples price range.

[LeadFoot81]

Apparently the next Mustang will not continue with the overly retro styling of the current model. It will feature key Mustang elements, but be a very fresh, up to the minute design.