Idiots locking their kids in cars today.

[poppa smurf]

I locked my kids in the car quite a few times, buggers kept getting out again though.......Mind you they were 14 and 16 at the time.

not good, in this weather, to leave man, child or beast in a closed vehicle.

[chevypower]

I can't stand this either. It saddens me when I hear of children dying this way. What would a suitable law be? I don't think it should be ban all kids of being alone in a car, because I used to prefer waiting in the car rather than follow my parents in everywhere. I would have hated a law saying I wasn't allowed to do that. What about say kids under 6 shouldn't be allowed to, but the door must be openable from the inside of the car? Not like those cars with the deadlocks and the power windows off.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by JC

Did any of the kids actually suffer, or were the parents only away for a short time? Were windows down - doesn't help much, but does slow heat build up? If no kids suffered, then it's just people overreacting; if however, the kids suffered, then the parent/s ought to be held to account. People have been leaving kids in cars for as long as I can remember (I was one), so it's not a new thing. How many kids actually die from this each year? I'd guess it's less than those killed in MVAs throughout the year, and probably less than taking the same kids on holidays at Christmas time and trying to survive the Christmas road toll.

Is it uncomfortable in a hot car for a short period of time? Yep - I spent 2 hours in mine today working in 37+ heat with the doors ope, and it was like i was in a sauna, but I'm still here. Kids in cars for 10 minutes is not fatal - certainly for longer would be, but get a grip.......had the guy taken kids into a grog shop, there'd probably be a thread about that and how irresponsible that is......

Yet more nonsense from Can'tberra... What is in the water there? Do they still have lead piping?

[data_mine]

Don't blame us, it's the states making the stupid laws.

[irish2]

Just another extension of the lost common sense. Natural selection in full flight.

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

I wonder where you would stand legally if you bricked the window to get them out.

I would call for emergency services first (if the child is suffering from heat stress in needs help and fast and unless they are driving past, they are at least a few mins away and a few minuets can be the difference between life and death), and if the child is under obvious heat stress I would give little regard to the law and break the window to save the child.

I wouldn't do any more damage than was necessary to gain access, but, I don't think I would have any hesitation in smashing a window.

I'm not a legal wizz; but I like to think if it were me personally thats what I would do.

That and if the parrents turned up after I smashed the window I would probably want the emregency services people to hold me back form strangeling them

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by The Yeti

I would call for emergency services first (if the child is suffering from heat stress in needs help and fast and unless they are driving past, they are at least a few mins away and a few minuets can be the difference between life and death), and if the child is under obvious heat stress I would give little regard to the law and break the window to save the child.

I wouldn't do any more damage than was necessary to gain access, but, I don't think I would have any hesitation in smashing a window.

I'm not a legal wizz; but I like to think if it were me personally thats what I would do.

That and if the parrents turned up after I smashed the window I would probably want the emregency services people to hold me back form strangeling them

This is what I reminded my missus of yesterday is that RACV/ES etc ar'nt always just around the corner especially on a hot hot day. so if the kid is really suffering and even frightened/panicking trying to get out you would just have to do whatever you can to break a window......And if I had a brick I would throw it at the parents when they turn up!

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by JC

Did any of the kids actually suffer, or were the parents only away for a short time? Were windows down - doesn't help much, but does slow heat build up? If no kids suffered, then it's just people overreacting; if however, the kids suffered, then the parent/s ought to be held to account. People have been leaving kids in cars for as long as I can remember (I was one), so it's not a new thing. How many kids actually die from this each year? I'd guess it's less than those killed in MVAs throughout the year, and probably less than taking the same kids on holidays at Christmas time and trying to survive the Christmas road toll.

Is it uncomfortable in a hot car for a short period of time? Yep - I spent 2 hours in mine today working in 37+ heat with the doors ope, and it was like i was in a sauna, but I'm still here. Kids in cars for 10 minutes is not fatal - certainly for longer would be, but get a grip.......had the guy taken kids into a grog shop, there'd probably be a thread about that and how irresponsible that is......

Heres the stats for the US http://www.ggweather.com/heat/

http://www.kidsandcars.org/heatstroke.html

I think I see what your getting at, when I was kid I was left in the car with the windows down while mum ducked in to the corner shops for whatever, I think thats very different to a child being locked in the car while mum/dad plays the pokies, or gets caught talking in the shop while its 30+ outside in the hot sun

what we need to keep in mind is that temperatures inside a parked car can rise to between 30-40C above the outside temperature. Personaly I would get stressed and anxious if I was in just a 30 - 40C car let alone 60 - 80C

Think about how you feel physically on a 40C day standing outside what do you think your body will do at 50, 60, 70+ A child left in a parked car under those conditions can very quickly become distressed, dehydrated and can die from organ failure.

I defy anyone to read this and not almost cry http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226732566622

DESPERATE attempts to revive an 11-month old Perth boy at a daycare centre failed, after his father appears to have had a tragic lapse of memory and left the child in his car.

Just after 4pm on Wednesday, staff at the centre in Perth's foothills called police and ambulance officers when the baby boy was found lifeless in the back of his father's grey Honda Civic.

The man had arrived at the centre to pick up his son, and was told no one had brought the child in that day. When the man and staff members rushed outside to the car, the child was found in the back seat.

Kim Beange, general manager of the Ladybugs Early Learning and Care Centre in Helena Valley, said her staff did all they could to help the child and his father after the discovery.

"Our staff became aware of a child needing first aid and they attempted to revive him with CPR. Unfortunately, it wasn't successful," Ms Beange said.

The family-operated childcare centre, which is promoted as "ideally located for families heading towards the city for work", offered its condolences to the parents and family of the child.

Police spokesman Sam Dinnison said the toddler's death was not being treated as suspicious, but they were still inquiring into the circumstances leading to the discovery. A report is being prepared for the coroner.


In July, Bendigo mother Jayde Pool was charged with manslaughter and conduct endangering life after the death of her six-month-old daughter, when she allegedly forgot to take the child from the back seat.

The 28-year-old said she had driven to the shop with her six-year-old son and baby daughter to buy takeaway food. Returning home, she and her son had gone inside, but she said she forgot to remove her baby daughter until 2 1/2 hours later.

A court hearing was told in July the temperature had averaged 30C in the car interior before Ms Poole retrieved her daughter. The baby died later. Police said there was no suspicion that she was affected by drugs or alcohol on the day. A committal hearing is set down for December.

A Royal Automobile Club of Queensland study found temperature levels inside cars can reach 40C in seven minutes. It says babies and young children should never be left unattended, even for a brief time.

[poppa smurf]

1 child suffering needlessly is one child too bloody many!.......doesn't need a death......

[TheSneakiness]

This is my take on it (yes I have a three and a half year old)

If on the rare occasion I need to get fuel and its only me and him in the car, I will put the windows down to fill the car and pay inside and leave him in the car during this time. In this time we have a chat and then I say not going to be long (in and out in a minute)

If I head to the shops of course I get him out of the car.

Are you going to smash my windows at the service station because I left him in the car for one minute on his own with the windows down? If so I would more than likely over-react and you'd be in hospital and I would be looking a magistrate in the face.

Speaking of over-react, some people in those situations do so I would be absolutely sure animal or human was in dire need of assistance before I did anything.

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

This is my take on it (yes I have a three and a half year old)

If on the rare occasion I need to get fuel and its only me and him in the car, I will put the windows down to fill the car and pay inside and leave him in the car during this time. In this time we have a chat and then I say not going to be long (in and out in a minute)

If I head to the shops of course I get him out of the car.

Are you going to smash my windows at the service station because I left him in the car for one minute on his own with the windows down? If so I would more than likely over-react and you'd be in hospital and I would be looking a magistrate in the face.

Speaking of over-react, some people in those situations do so, I would be absolutely sure animal or human was in dire need of assistance before I did anything.

I'm a father of 2 and what you described for fuel & shops is EXACTLY how I did it when my kids were the same age as yours and I would do it the same way today if my kids were young.

I'm not talking about, the scenarios you mentioned, I' talking about kids locked in cars with windows up in the sun and in obvious heat stress and in that situation I stand by what I said 100%

[GASWAGON]

Oh Yeti those two articles are really bloody sad.....How could anyone forget to leave a kid in a car!

And of course we are talking about cars with all windows up and seeing obviously distressed/crying kids!

Even parking in the shade on a hot day a car would still be bloody hot even for an adult.

As said when are they going to start charging parents for this......They take 4 whole demerit points for driving while talking/texting on phone in Vic now but nothing for locking a poor helpless kid in a stinking hot car???

[GASWAGON]

O.k I have actually just sent a complaint to Vic Police asking them to do SOMETHING/ANYTHING.....At least a fine for this pathetic behaviour from so called parents.

Its been 40+ for nearly a week in Vic...still tmrw to go!

[BENT_8]

Did anyone take a reading of the inside of these cars?
It is possible that the inside of the car may infact be cooler than outside.

Picture this, you leave home on a 40* day to travel to the shop for a few minutes, on the way you have the A/C on full.
Upon arriving at the store, the vehicles interior is a good 15* cooler than the ambient.
It should take you 5 minutes to grab what you need.
If you take the kids out you instantly take them from 25* to 40*+ the 'on track' temp of the car park/road.
If you leave them in there for the 5 minutes it would be lucky to rise 10*.

What is worse?

[BENT_8]

I will be honest and admit that I have forgotten one of my children in the car for about 15 minutes.
He was about 6 months old and I had him one day when I was on an RDO.

Id been and done shopping and when I got home I went straight for the boot to get the groceries with the intention of waking and taking him in once done.
So I empty the boot and the landline rang.
I spoke for a few minutes and then went back to stocking the cupboards.
Luckily a mate called in and whilst we were talking on the front porch I heard the little tacker start crying.
I flew into the carport and retrieved him in a panic at what I'd done, but luckily it was the middle of winter and warmer in the car than outside.
In fact, if not for a dirty bum and hunger he would have probably slept longer.

Sometimes I think about that day and how it could have been different if it was summer and it sends a chill down my spine.

[data_mine]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Did anyone take a reading of the inside of these cars?
It is possible that the inside of the car may infact be cooler than outside.

Picture this, you leave home on a 40* day to travel to the shop for a few minutes, on the way you have the A/C on full.
Upon arriving at the store, the vehicles interior is a good 15* cooler than the ambient.
It should take you 5 minutes to grab what you need.
If you take the kids out you instantly take them from 25* to 40*+ the 'on track' temp of the car park/road.
If you leave them in there for the 5 minutes it would be lucky to rise 10*.

What is worse?

A car will heat up quicker than that.

Essentially a car becomes a small glasshouse, lots of windows, next to no insulation, and no air flow. Heat radiating in from the engine/exhaust (since there now no underbody airflow). That nice black duco does wonder for heating things up.

They heat up lots and quickly.


Only yesterday I pulled over to take a call (got to 42.5C), as you should do, pull over park, stop engine (and a/c) to prevent the popo give you a ticket, windows up to block road noise. Within 5 minutes I was a sweaty mess.

Now imagine your a baby/toddler who may have wanted a drink 15 minutes ago, doesn't have the option to open a door/window (they're strapped in remember). It'd be horrible.

[poppa smurf]

Little fellers undergo heat stress a hell of a lot faster and more destructive than an adult.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by data_mine

A car will heat up quicker than that.

Essentially a car becomes a small glasshouse, lots of windows, next to no insulation, and no air flow. Heat radiating in from the engine/exhaust (since there now no underbody airflow). That nice black duco does wonder for heating things up.

They heat up lots and quickly.


Only yesterday I pulled over to take a call (got to 42.5C), as you should do, pull over park, stop engine (and a/c) to prevent the popo give you a ticket, windows up to block road noise. Within 5 minutes I was a sweaty mess.

Now imagine your a baby/toddler who may have wanted a drink 15 minutes ago, doesn't have the option to open a door/window (they're strapped in remember). It'd be horrible.

Yeah, but that's assuming its a black car with no tint in full sun with no breeze.

What if its a white car, with dark tint, on an overcast afternoon ahead of a cool change with winds increasing.
Can you show some statistics to back up your claim of how fast a car will heat in a range of scenarios or is it speculation.

Im not condoning the actions but there are many factors worth considering apart from the wow factor of shock and awe that the media will run with.
Where do you draw the line, should you take your kids out of an air conditioned car to post a letter in a road side post box?
What if you had to park 20mtrs up the road to do so and someone saw you leave the car with kids in it.
Does that mean your irresponsible if someone else views your actions that way?
Is it responsible to even take kids out on a 40* day?

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by The Yeti

I'm a father of 2 and what you described for fuel & shops is EXACTLY how I did it when my kids were the same age as yours and I would do it the same way today if my kids were young.

I'm not talking about, the scenarios you mentioned, I' talking about kids locked in cars with windows up in the sun and in obvious heat stress and in that situation I stand by what I said 100%

I've done it on occasion as well, but I only do it with one particular servo because the whole forecourt is shaded and it is close to the shop, so it is easy for me to keep an eye on him while paying. Window down, car locked and he can see me as well as I can see him.

I have concerns with little children being on service station forecourts as they are quite dangerous places for anyone to be, let alone a toddler, especially in peak periods.

But the examples of people leaving/locking their kids in the car in shopping centre car parks while they go and do shopping/play pokies/have lunch is a whole new level of neglect and abuse and it staggers me that people do this and think that it is ok - especially in the middle of summer. In full sun these modern cars can get so stupidly hot inside in 10 minutes, what do you think this will do to a little child's body or a baby.

[Mechan1k]

FG Falcon in EGO ... I had the interior nice and cool ... I have tint on it.
I went into the shops and was partially under the shade of a tree.
Just over 5 minutes I was back in the car ... no more than 10 minutes.

Outside temp was 36 deg C.

When i got back .... most of my LCD displays had faded due to heat (typical FG issues) ... and i forgot to put the window shade on as well. I couldn't touch the steering wheel and seat buckles. The air inside was stifling and i could barely breathe in there.

Ran the car and A/C and stood under the tree for a couple of minutes till i decided to get back into the car.

Doesn't take long to heat up ... just saying.

Tempted to get a thermo probe and leave it in the centre console to see how hot it gets. One good thing about the Territory though ... due to glass not being so angled ... it takes longer for it to heat up inside ... plus the paint is white as well. Makes a massive difference.

[GASWAGON]

We leave my son in the car if he's asleep so we don't disturb him.....Out in the bush in aback street so no one would ever steal him from car.

If we do that its def not on a 25deg or more day and we ALWAYS leave all the windows down.

These morons leaving the windows up and going to pokies/shopping for more than a few minutes need to be shot!

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by EF_6

We leave my son in the car if he's asleep so we don't disturb him.....Out in the bush in aback street so no one would ever steal him from car.

If we do that its def not on a 25deg or more day and we ALWAYS leave all the windows down.

These morons leaving the windows up and going to pokies/shopping for more than a few minutes need to be shot!

Sorry, no young child should be left in a car unattended windows up or down regardless of any temperature, that is my opinion but you do what you see fit & live with the consequences if any.

[tweeked]

It is not a one answer fits all. I always leave my kids in the car when paying for petrol. Way more kids in danger walking about a station forecourt than sitting in the car in the shade of an awning with the windows down. A mik bar to grab some milk? no problem.

In the sun windows up is a different matter.

Too many non parent blanket statements made here.

[data_mine]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Yeah, but that's assuming its a black car with no tint in full sun with no breeze.

What if its a white car, with dark tint, on an overcast afternoon ahead of a cool change with winds increasing.
Can you show some statistics to back up your claim of how fast a car will heat in a range of scenarios or is it speculation.

My post was purely my experience.

Here's a nice easy to digest (from 'murica!) report.

http://www.injuryprevention.org/stat...rs/hotcars.htm

Summary
On a 33C (93F in the report) day, it was over (in both a light and a dark car) 52C (125F) internally in only 20 minutes. Temps peaked at 60C (140F) in only 40 minutes.

And to reinforce the extra danger for babies and toddlers (direct quote from report)
"The primary causes of heat stroke vary with age. The most common cause of heat stroke in adults is strenuous exercise. Heat stroke in infants, however, is primarily associated with increased environmental temperature or poor fluid intake. Heat stroke occurs more readily in infants who are ill or have other predisposing conditions such as congenital nervous system abnormalities. However, healthy infants are also at risk for heat stroke. Studies show that infants in good health have been found to run a temperature over 101°F in a warm environment. "


Now 33C is hardly hot, ~10 degrees down on what we've had in Canberra this week.

Begin stuck in a car on a hot day is dangerous for infants in minutes, not hours.

[Giant Cranium]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

I wonder where you would stand legally if you bricked the window to get them out.

i was at bondi westfields doing some work one day and noticed one of those silly little dogs in the car next to me, all windows were up and this dog was going off! so i called security and they told me to break a window.
the hardest decision i had was what tool to use but settled on a lump hammer.

the bloke when he finally got back to his car an hour latter was going off his rocker. nearly hit him with the hammer. poor dog would have been dead.

ill tell you now if it was a child i would have broken window first, then called the cops, then flogged the bloke

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by trublu

Am I missing something here, why was your child in the car unattended when he locked himself in?

Easy to blame others but what about your self.

Some times people make bad judgement others don't care.

Mate we learned a big lesson from that morning....He is my first and only child and he had a fascination for playing in the car and pressing all the buttons etc.

We DO NOT let him play in the car anymore!

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by tweeked

It is not a one answer fits all. I always leave my kids in the car when paying for petrol. Way more kids in danger walking about a station forecourt than sitting in the car in the shade of an awning with the windows down. A mik bar to grab some milk? no problem.

In the sun windows up is a different matter.

Too many non parent blanket statements made here.

I don't think any one is really commenting on this sort of quick stop scenerio you mention but the ones who go to shopping centres/hotels or other venues where children can be left for longer periods of time unattended.

Agree there is no one answer fits all but common sense come into play.

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by Giant Cranium

i was at bondi westfields doing some work one day and noticed one of those silly little dogs in the car next to me, all windows were up and this dog was going off! so i called security and they told me to break a window.
the hardest decision i had was what tool to use but settled on a lump hammer.

the bloke when he finally got back to his car an hour latter was going off his rocker. nearly hit him with the hammer. poor dog would have been dead.

ill tell you now if it was a child i would have broken window first, then called the cops, then flogged the bloke

Yep nice one! 1 hour FFS! I seriously cannot believe the stupidity, dogs or kids....

[JC]

Originally Posted by The Yeti

Heres the stats for the US http://www.ggweather.com/heat/

http://www.kidsandcars.org/heatstroke.html

I think I see what your getting at, when I was kid I was left in the car with the windows down while mum ducked in to the corner shops for whatever, I think thats very different to a child being locked in the car while mum/dad plays the pokies, or gets caught talking in the shop while its 30+ outside in the hot sun

what we need to keep in mind is that temperatures inside a parked car can rise to between 30-40C above the outside temperature. Personaly I would get stressed and anxious if I was in just a 30 - 40C car let alone 60 - 80C

Think about how you feel physically on a 40C day standing outside what do you think your body will do at 50, 60, 70+ A child left in a parked car under those conditions can very quickly become distressed, dehydrated and can die from organ failure.

I defy anyone to read this and not almost cry http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226732566622

DESPERATE attempts to revive an 11-month old Perth boy at a daycare centre failed, after his father appears to have had a tragic lapse of memory and left the child in his car.

Just after 4pm on Wednesday, staff at the centre in Perth's foothills called police and ambulance officers when the baby boy was found lifeless in the back of his father's grey Honda Civic.

The man had arrived at the centre to pick up his son, and was told no one had brought the child in that day. When the man and staff members rushed outside to the car, the child was found in the back seat.

Kim Beange, general manager of the Ladybugs Early Learning and Care Centre in Helena Valley, said her staff did all they could to help the child and his father after the discovery.

"Our staff became aware of a child needing first aid and they attempted to revive him with CPR. Unfortunately, it wasn't successful," Ms Beange said.

The family-operated childcare centre, which is promoted as "ideally located for families heading towards the city for work", offered its condolences to the parents and family of the child.

Police spokesman Sam Dinnison said the toddler's death was not being treated as suspicious, but they were still inquiring into the circumstances leading to the discovery. A report is being prepared for the coroner.


In July, Bendigo mother Jayde Pool was charged with manslaughter and conduct endangering life after the death of her six-month-old daughter, when she allegedly forgot to take the child from the back seat.

The 28-year-old said she had driven to the shop with her six-year-old son and baby daughter to buy takeaway food. Returning home, she and her son had gone inside, but she said she forgot to remove her baby daughter until 2 1/2 hours later.

A court hearing was told in July the temperature had averaged 30C in the car interior before Ms Poole retrieved her daughter. The baby died later. Police said there was no suspicion that she was affected by drugs or alcohol on the day. A committal hearing is set down for December.

A Royal Automobile Club of Queensland study found temperature levels inside cars can reach 40C in seven minutes. It says babies and young children should never be left unattended, even for a brief time.

Yep, my point (and maybe I didn't write it too well - typical Can'tberrans, I suppose; thanks Superyob cos we've never heard that term before.....) was that just because a kid is in a car, doesn't mean the kid is in danger, even on a hot day.

I went to the shops the other day, and one of my (10 Year old) kids wanted to stay in the car with his 20 year old cousin because they were playing their Ipod game together (if it was just him, I don't leave them in the car because I believe they are too young and there are too many sickos out there looking for opportunities which I won't be giving them). Anyway......I left the windows down, and they were happy. They were a little warm when I returned to the car 10 minutes later, and even commented that it was hot, but they stayed in the car even though they could've got out and come into the shops.

Would I endorse leaving a young child in a car (say under 12 - the legal age that you can leave a child alone) with the doors and windows locked on a hot (say 30+) day? No way. But some people will and as long as no harm is done, then what is the harm? None......

[GASWAGON]

If they make new laws just like they have for driving while talking/texting so a fine + 4 demerit points SURELY it will deter some from doing it.....We are not talking about 1 or 2 callouts this was 25 for one day!

Also, if Emergency Services think it was a poor decision by the parent and the kid/s were in danger they should have the power to call the police to turn up on the site so at least a fine can be written out.

My mum just told me about another incident where a drugged up mother from Brisbane parked in her own driveway and went inside and fell asleep while the baby died in the car........Horrible!