Are high rise vehicles safe in built up areas? - Page 2

stockel · 21-12-2005, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big_pete

i dont see a problem with it.
it all comes down to the driver. which is the same for ALL vehicles.

I agree with this to a piont but isn't the main concern what happens in the event of an accident? It doesn't matter how good a driver you are they can still happen!

Abacus · 21-12-2005, 04:48 PM

I agree with the sentiments expressed regarding raised 4WDs, to the effect that: they are pigs in the city, potentially unsafe in the wrong hands, and not used for appropriate purpose by the majority of owners, who probably wouldn't slip them into 4WD during their complete period of ownership of the truck.

BUT you need to be careful when you call for any vehicles to be banned, on the basis that nobody really “needs” such a vehicle. If the government ever introduced laws limiting such vehicles, this could be the thin end of a very nasty wedge. Environmentalists could claim who “needs” those nasty fuel guzzling V8s – Ban Them!!. The Harold Scrubys of this world would scream who “needs” turbocharged engines , or anything with more performance than a Holden Barina – Ban Them!!.

I find any large 4WD a pain the backside in the city. They take up too much room on the road, you can’t see through them, and there is no doubt that many, if not most, of their drivers would probably have a real problem in a crisis situation. At the end of the day, however, you have to consider whether going down the road of government intervention might end up at a very unpleasant destination.

stockel · 21-12-2005, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turboute

Irrespective of driver skill the 4WD will probably kill someone, due to the bull bar going straight through the window and missing all the side impact protection. Also it's larger mass means that It will take much more energy to stop it - ie it will go through the car while the average sedan will stop much closer to the initial point of impact.

my piont exactly (only better put!)

:

21-12-2005, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

So i need a special licence to drive my Territory ... because that's over 2-tonne.

What I'm getting at is roll-over potential of the vehicle and the height of a frontal colision point ie if the front bar is in the window/head region should determine whether a special licence is needed.

A truck like in the image shown is pretty tall and the colision point is pretty much head height, or the chest of a pedestrian. Also if one was to wrench the steering wheel of that Toyota to avoid a rear ender, it would roll. The driver should need a special licence.

Whereas a Territory has a lower front bar, making it more safer to pedestrians and in the instance of a T bone accident would have a bit of protection from the side impact bars and side airbags. Also the territory is a more nimble car and is less likely to roll over.

**Raptor** · 21-12-2005, 04:56 PM

I voted "If prime movers, tractors, etc. are allowed, so can these".

Afterall they are enthusiasts with a hobby just like many of us. We should be sticking together not trying to take each other out. First it'll be 4wd's, then V8's, then anything lowered or too noisy etc. There are already laws for this.

To my way of thinking many of the modifications done to the extreme 4x4 will be against the law anyway so they are already not allowed on our roads. But there are still there aren't they.

Really, if they are driven accordingly and within the capabilities of the vehicle and for the conditions then let 'em be. If they, or anyone else for that matter, drives like a ******** then throw the book at them, confiscate the car and lock 'em up. Some real driver training to get a licence in the first place would help, maybe we should all have to attend defensive driving courses every few years in our everyday cars. That would make people more aware of their vehicles shortfalls. Then a police force who monitor and maintain traffic flow and sensible behaviour rather than a dozen+ roadside camera's calibrated to collect revenue for minor speed infrigements but totally miss ******** behaviour like tailgating, weaving in and out and ignore the prevailing conditions of light/dark, wet/dry etc.

Big 4x4's, powerful V8's, thumping audio systems I don't really care, whatever floats your boat. Just be sensible when on public roads and use the modifications for where they were intended; offroad, racetrack, carshows and eliminate the dickheads.

stockel · 21-12-2005, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abacus

I agree with the sentiments expressed regarding raised 4WDs, to the effect that: they are pigs in the city, potentially unsafe in the wrong hands, and not used for appropriate purpose by the majority of owners, who probably wouldn't slip them into 4WD during their complete period of ownership of the truck.

BUT you need to be careful when you call for any vehicles to be banned, on the basis that nobody really “needs” such a vehicle. If the government ever introduced laws limiting such vehicles, this could be the thin end of a very nasty wedge. Environmentalists could claim who “needs” those nasty fuel guzzling V8s – Ban Them!!. The Harold Scrubys of this world would scream who “needs” turbocharged engines , or anything with more performance than a Holden Barina – Ban Them!!.

I find any large 4WD a pain the backside in the city. They take up too much room on the road, you can’t see through them, and there is no doubt that many, if not most, of their drivers would probably have a real problem in a crisis situation. At the end of the day, however, you have to consider whether going down the road of government intervention might end up at a very unpleasant destination.

Well said.

21-12-2005, 04:57 PM

And for the record, I'm all for the freedom of choice of what car you choose to buy, so long as you can drive it properly.

LTDHO · 21-12-2005, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turboute

The real test of this question is :
you have 2 drivers A & B
Driver A is in a std falcodore sedan sedan and Driver B is in huge *** 4WD skysraper
upon approaching an intersection the driver sneezes - please note that sneezing is an uncontrolable bodily function and every part of you body including your heart momentarily stops. Also it is one of the few excuses that you may be able to get away with in court for causing an accident.

This stops them from being able to stop before the intersection and they both hit a car. Who do you think is going to do less damage? Irrespective of driver skill the 4WD will probably kill someone, due to the bull bar going straight through the window and missing all the side impact protection. Also it's larger mass means that It will take much more energy to stop it - ie it will go through the car while the average sedan will stop much closer to the initial point of impact.

Depending on where the hit occures the 4x4 driver may comes of worst. Being that hight the vehicle may get airbourne or flip. You will be surpise the times this happens. Hilux's are call Rollux for that reason! Hence the need to be able to contol the vehicle you are driving.

4x4's are no where near as safe as people think, I know and accept this when driving mine!

gozza · 21-12-2005, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bladexr8

Mate, I hope you never run into my wife... Are you an Ambulance member?

are you mandating my point lol??
or saying she'll beat me up for generalising women in 4wd's

Des · 21-12-2005, 05:44 PM

My out-laws have a Wrangler with 6 inch lift, 32 or 34 inch tyres, air lockers etc., etc.. Yes they use it, yes it's not as stable as other road cars (they know this and compensate for it) and yes it's more roadworthy them some of the taxi's I've seen still in service. If you want to ban these, then next would be delivery vans. Some of these have the dynamics of a bar of soap. Then lets ban anything over 10 years old, because let's face it, vehicle dynamics and technology has moved forward quite a ways since then. Let me see....Ahh yes, small cars aren't very safe because anything over 20 kg's travelling at a decent speed will go straight through them and well, big cars squash them. Whats that leave? Medium cars? Big cars squash them too. Big vehicles squash too many things, so buggar 'em. Horses can throw you off, so ban them as well. Shoes give you blisters....
Open the gates and watch the "banned" list grow.

jspec_sti · 21-12-2005, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gozza

are you mandating my point lol??
or saying she'll beat me up for generalising women in 4wd's

The first point mate, no other cars exist on the road when she's in her Explorer!

BroncosXR8 · 21-12-2005, 05:56 PM

It all comes down to the person in control of the vehicle, whether it's lowered, jacked up or whetever, the person needs to know their vehicle, now to say lets ban 4x4 from the city, does that mean all or just raised/modified ones, how does Jow Blow copper know the difference to a Raised Landcruiser and its standard rideheight, than to one thats modified.
And then what about people that only own a 4x4, and use it when its needed, do they need to own a special license and then be pulled over every 5min because the cops dont know if he/she has a 4x4 license. Then you have the question of contractors, builders and the like, how are they going to do there work in the city as well as rural, many of these guys have normal car licenses and operate 4x4s.
Now yes I do think 4x4 owners should do extra training, as should any driver regardless of what vehicle they drive!

Des · 21-12-2005, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroncosXR8

Now yes I do think 4x4 owners should do extra training, as should any driver regardless of what vehicle they drive!

Hello Government, are you listening?

herbs · 21-12-2005, 06:22 PM

As a 4wdriver, Ban it from the city.........er..........NO! how about those people who can't afford 2 cars yet want to go bush occasionally, do you make them move out of the city to access that? As long as any modifications arte legal, then what's the problem? Everytone should be working together to keep these priveliges, because there's plenty out there with no idea wanting to take it away from us...........

XLS99 Ute man · 21-12-2005, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnydep

Should these things be allowed in built up areas, such as cities & suburbs?

Imagine the damage of hitting or being hit by something that high, a side impact would be deadly.

Driving it feels like driving a cloud, it floats with the wind & road bumps; not dangerously so, but enough to make relaxed driving difficult. At 60km/h it feels like your doing 80, it has all the right type of gear underneath.

You need a hobby. Like seriously there a so many things that a potentially dangerous, lets all just stay indoors and not leave the house at all

AU1FORME · 21-12-2005, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLS99 Ute man

You need a hobby. Like seriously there a so many things that a potentially dangerous, lets all just stay indoors and not leave the house at all

Here here I agree with you XLS99 Ute man.

Geeezzz come one people PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!

you are arguing the same reasons why your car should not be on the road or you should not drive or be allowed to drive on the road.

nothing in this thread has any real basis for saying NO to this Poll.

have a listen to yourselves - I actually thought we had rational logical open minded people posting here, seems I was wrong.

AU1FORME · 21-12-2005, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnydep

Should these things be allowed in built up areas, such as cities & suburbs?

Imagine the damage of hitting or being hit by something that high, a side impact would be deadly.

Driving it feels like driving a cloud, it floats with the wind & road bumps; not dangerously so, but enough to make relaxed driving difficult. At 60km/h it feels like your doing 80, it has all the right type of gear underneath.

What a load of horse manure!!!!!!!!!!!!

These vehicles drive just as safe and as comfortable as a standard height or even lowered vehicle, and at 60k's it would feel like doing 40K's not the other way around ALL VEHICLES IN THE WRONG HANDS CAN KILL

mustang · 21-12-2005, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLS99 Ute man

You need a hobby. Like seriously there a so many things that a potentially dangerous, lets all just stay indoors and not leave the house at all

wat if the house collapses

: or if the house catches on fire and ur too affraid to go outside cause of a big bad 4x4

:

like the sayin goes for most demo derby drivers...."you could get hurt getting out of bed in the morning" :nutsycuck

AC · 21-12-2005, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AU1FORME

ALL VEHICLES IN THE WRONG HANDS CAN KILL

Amen to that

Psycho Chicken · 21-12-2005, 07:12 PM

Jeez some of you!

We should ban 4WDs and tax them out of existance? Have you ever thought for a moment that people have different hobbies when it comes to cars? Inexperienced drivers in V8s can be dangerous, let's ban them or tax them to hell and back!

4WDs have their purpose. For people who do a lot of towing they are a much better choice than a Falcon or Commo. Yes there are too many Toorak tractors around, but that doesn't mean we should ban the lot. Everyone jumps up and down when we are stereotyped as hoons, yet you're all so quick to brand all 4WDs as Toorak tractors? Anyone with have a brain can figure out that Cruiser actually goes off road and the driver more than likely knows it's limitations.

johnydep · 21-12-2005, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLS99 Ute man

You need a hobby. Like seriously there a so many things that a potentially dangerous, lets all just stay indoors and not leave the house at all

Why? Because I get a bit of interesting debating going instead of looking at porn of mountain women. :evilking:

tex · 21-12-2005, 07:17 PM

Hell, is this forum - subscribed by MANY people who mod their car the right place to be slinging mud.
In my opinion, if the vehicle has been modded within the law, well it has as much right to be in a bloody city as any other LEGALLY modded vehicle. Why don't we start on far kin scooters, scateboards or treadlies. Surely a bus would be more dangerous than a new 'cruiser with a lift kit and bull bar .....
What if the 4 x 4 owners, or any other chunk of society were to push (harder) for a ban on vehicles modded to acceed the factory original pwr output.... 'cause there's no need for more pwr than std on public roads ????
In this day and age of "political correctness", the battle on hoons, modded vehicles and the fact that emmediate death will occur if you exceed the prescribed speed limit, we should be supporting expression of individuality with vehicles, all be it LEGAL and properly engineered ones.

XLS99 Ute man · 21-12-2005, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnydep

Why? Because I get a bit of interesting debating going instead of looking at porn of mountain women. :evilking:

Bah! i think you posted it so someone like me will bite back!
and no porn till after 9,

johnydep · 21-12-2005, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AU1FORME

What a load of horse manure!!!!!!!!!!!!

These vehicles drive just as safe and as comfortable as a standard height or even lowered vehicle, and at 60k's it would feel like doing 40K's not the other way around ALL VEHICLES IN THE WRONG HANDS CAN KILL

You have no idea.

I drove that Landcruiser and what I wrote before is how it drives.

It has been designed for rock climbing not highway driving.

How can a vehicle with such a high centre of gravity, extra heavy duty springs & extremely high profile tyres be as safe as a standard heght or lowered vehicle?

:

Come on, I'm waiting for an answer.

nang3 · 21-12-2005, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

.....
Quite a few friends of mine have "high-rise vehicles" (mucho money spent too) ... and they get used for their intended purposes ... but also get used in suburbia too. But they all know their vehicles aren't built for speed and cornering ... and their drive accordingly to be safe.

This is exactly true. I had a patrol that was jacked up 9 inches over standard with a high COG and i adjusted accordingly and never came close to crashing or causing damage to another car...

Quote:

Originally Posted by mustang

can u tell me where i can buy a 100 series cruiser from @ that price and then where i can buy that suspension set up from for 15k. i mean u would be lookin @ 50k for the car plus bout 30-40k for ALL that gear i mean really

yeh the hundy would be closer to 50K but i doubt 30-40K for that gear?? well maybe if he has the works, both diff locks, rollerdrawers, chev conversion etc etc.. but that spring kit would only be about $3K or $4K.. point is it is easy and cheap to get a 4wd lifted.. cost me a total of $4000 to get 7 inches higher than stock, BUT it all comes down to the driver..

Quote:

Originally Posted by gozza

stupid women sitting up in them thinking there so powerfull and mighty alot of 4wd also tend to think they have right of way everywhere

I dont think they think they are high and mighty, they are just bad drivers to start with and dont notice anything around them adn have no clue ... i work next to a surf shop and there are literally dozens of soccer moms in 4wds rocking up everyday - 80% of them cant even park them, 60% open their doors straight into whatever car is next to them, and 100% of them need a 700pt turn to get out again... the soccer dads dont have that problem though

:

johnydep · 21-12-2005, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLS99 Ute man

Bah! i think you posted it so someone like me will bite back!
and no porn till after 9,

No, I wasn't expecting people to bite back.

:

All I'm interested in is some civil & honest discussion on those types of vehicles driven as a daily comuter in the city, everyone has a point of view.
Share yours without attacking someone elses.

Is that 9am or pm?

:

stockel · 21-12-2005, 07:28 PM

Here here I agree with you XLS99 Ute man.

Geeezzz come one people PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!

you are arguing the same reasons why your car should not be on the road or you should not drive or be allowed to drive on the road.

??? I don't understand this statement maybe I'm stupid or something tho?

:

nothing in this thread has any real basis for saying NO to this Poll.

have a listen to yourselves - I actually thought we had rational logical open minded people posting here, seems I was wrong.

Examples?

XLS99 Ute man · 21-12-2005, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnydep

No, I wasn't expecting people to bite back.

:

All I'm interested in is some civil & honest discussion on those types of vehicles driven as a daily comuter in the city, everyone has a point of view.
Share yours without attacking someone elses.

Is that 9am or pm?

:

ah well maybe its just me looking for a fight...its been a long day,
I must thankyou for the "Dont Care" Option
Cheers
Ed

**Mechan1k** · 21-12-2005, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ndOwner

Amen to that

Hey I nearly killed myself in a little Proton Satria ... hee hee.
Doesn't take much

Fryday · 21-12-2005, 09:04 PM

I'm not against 4x4's but I think a separate licence for drivers of 4x4's is the way to go. It forces driver training and hopefully awareness, would deter alot of people who have no need for one or ever use it as it's intended from buying one, limits bad exposure for enthusiasts who get out there and use it as intended and it would also save my doors - I'd say 99% of the carpark dents in my car are from 4x4's. It doesn't seem to matter where I park, there's always one (and a new dent) when I return.

View Poll Results: Should these things be allowed in built up areas, such as cities & suburbs?
Yes.	57	32.95%
No.	68	39.31%
If prime movers, tractors, etc. are allowed, so can these.	25	14.45%
Suburbs only.	3	1.73%
Who cares.	20	11.56%
Voters: 173. You may not vote on this poll