WA Reduces Speed Limits. By up to 50km/hr. !!!!!

[aussiblue]

You can't be serious.

I've worked in the bureaucracy many years ago and the amount of dead wood was staggering. What was even more staggering was how many of the senior positions were filled with said wood; every single one of these peanuts did no work other than stuff that justified keeping their head in the trough. No one was ever sacked, they were always "reassigned" somewhere else when they cocked up, no one was ever demoted, no one was ever held truly accountable for their stuff ups or not working in the best interest of the electorate.

This "layered detailed accountability"... a smoke screen.

I spent most of 40 years in the WA State Public Service in many different Departments and Agencies before I retired. I also had the opportunity to work in private companies on and off and my response is:

a) Yes; "many years ago' and when I joined in the 1970's there were severe efficiency issues. But remember in those day many managers had left school in grade 7 and/or were promoted on the basis of their war service. But with higher standards of recruitment (mostly University graduates) and professionalism this has changed considerably.
b) Efficiency was often a related to agency size and goals. Small agencies were always more efficient as everyone knew what was going on, staff resources were scarce and there were common understood goals. Stable agencies with clear goals where all staff believed that they making the world a better place (e.g. Fisheries) were generally more efficient (more committed staff) than the more politically volatile agencies where policy changes were frequent and politically driven and there was always some uncertainty about if its activities and outcomes were really going to make the world a better place.
c) My experience in working in large multi nationals was that they were just as bureaucratic and as inefficient as any large Government department. Size and similar accountability issues seems to create these issues. I also found in medium sized private companies I worked in (around 40 staff) a high level of cronyism and employing of unproductive deadwood relatives and friends.
d) Fortunately the inefficient, incompetent and obstructive are now a small minority in the State Public Service and other staff soon work out how to work around them. However, it may be going downhill again soon as I do think the EEO requirements that no longer require staff over 65 is now an issue. There are people I know in the public service that have declined in performance, and even become obstructive, with age and should be retired. Unfortunately they are probably ineligible for the current redundancies and may stay on while younger staff that are perhaps more efficient and effective take the money and run off to another job.

People do get sacked for being incompetent or inefficient from time to time but as I soon learnt you have to do it fairly immediately; once they have been around for any length of time you tend to be stuck with them.

[aussiblue]

Rita's my local member and she's as thick as a plank.

Not only do these bureaucrats operate in a vacuum of accountability, they demonstrate a lack of basic understanding of how speed limits should be adapted. It's widely accepted world wide the 85th percentile method is the best and safest way to set speed limits. But that's a principle that evades these imbeciles.

So you don't like/trust the elected reps or the public servants. So perhaps a Kim Jon Un dictatorship with you at the helm then?

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

So you don't like/trust the elected reps or the public servants. So perhaps a Kim Jon Un dictatorship with you at the helm then?

No, I echo Nigel Farage sentiments when he said that bureaucrats have never created a single job in their working lives. If you can't cut it in business, commerce or trade there's always the public sector that will take you.

[aussiblue]

So back on topic. What particular speed limit changes of those specific roads and streets listed does anyone believe is unjustified and why?

[Trump]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

So back on topic. What particular speed limit changes of those specific roads and streets listed does anyone believe is unjustified and why?

The discussion is yet to stray off topic. It isn't simply a matter of the specific streets mentioned, it's the fact that essentially nameless people are making far reaching decisions on behalf of the community, not limited to but including (mostly) unjustified reductions of posted limits. They make these decisions based on the pressure from stupid interest groups (yes stupid and not special, because of people like Harold Scruby), wanting to be seen as doing something and basically propagating the govco mantra of speed kills...

[Junkyard-Dog]

Good thing nobody lives in WA I guess.

[aussiblue]

I think throwing slanderous remarks at public servants in general is off topic. Many teachers, nurses, engineers, scientist and other public servants are very committed and many often work in arduous conditions and/or work excess hours with little recognition or adequate reward. Many also choose to work in the public service because of a desire to serve the public and make the world a better place despite the fact the that they have to put up with this sort of unfounded and unfair derision. And they are not in a position to defend themselves against these unfair criticisms and they are generally prohibited from making public comments in regard to to the agencies the work for. In any event, at the end of the day the performance and actions of Government agencies is a reflection of the legislation enacted by the Parliament elected by all and the elected and electing are equally responsible. I think it's actually cowardly to attack public servants as they are unable to defend themselves; if you must attack the politicians as they are allowed to respond albeit they may also choose to hide behind the public servants and deny any responsibility.

Nobody has yet suggested an alternative fair, scientific. workable and democratic method of setting the speed limits but are happy to throw crap at those just doing their job probably very professionally and inline with world standards. And I suspect if we investigated the list we would find most changes were in response to submissions by local councils that in turn were responding to local residents concerns.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

I think throwing slanderous remarks at public servants in general is off topic. Many teachers, nurses, engineers, scientist and other public servants are very committed and many often work in arduous conditions and/or work excess hours with little recognition or adequate reward.

Teachers and nurses aren't bureaucrats; engineers and scientists worth their mettle won't be anywhere near the public service.

Originally Posted by aussiblue

Many also choose to work in the public service because of a desire to serve the public and make the world a better place despite the fact the that they have to put up with this sort of unfounded and unfair derision.

Nurses and teachers, you're on the money, service to others is the primary motivator for these people. As to the rest of the pube service...

Originally Posted by aussiblue

Nobody has yet suggested an alternative fair, scientific. workable and democratic method of setting the speed limits but are happy to throw crap at those just doing their job probably very professionally and inline with world standards. And I suspect if we investigated the list we would find most changes were in response to submissions by local councils that in turn were responding to local residents concerns.

No one has suggested an alternative probably because there isn't any way to implement one; the current crop of mouth breather bureaucrats excel at justifying their ongoing employment and any moves to displace them from the trough is met with great resistance.

I might sound like I am rather vocal and disgruntled with public servants in the bureaucracy, it is because I am. I was in that mix for long enough to realise that the one constant in pubeland is infinite inertia and a lot of smeg, a place where brains are checked in at the door and sometimes not picked up at the end of the day.

[Junkyard-Dog]

"...sometimes not picked up at the end of the day."

Replace "sometimes" with "usually" and we're cooking with gas Donald.

[Windsor220]

Southern River is mostly new housing estate now. Obviously the limit was going to be dropped. Surprised it was 110 anyway. Usually that is reserved for the freeway or roads out in the sticks.

[TICKFORD220]

Nothing to do with bloody safety.... money hungry bassterds,they need to pay cut those useless parliament clowns and make them actually work for their pay... instead they try and scab speed fine money off regular joe by road safety speed limit dropping,what a joke.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Trump

Teachers and nurses aren't bureaucrats; engineers and scientists worth their mettle won't be anywhere near the public service.



Nurses and teachers, you're on the money, service to others is the primary motivator for these people. As to the rest of the pube service...



No one has suggested an alternative probably because there isn't any way to implement one; the current crop of mouth breather bureaucrats excel at justifying their ongoing employment and any moves to displace them from the trough is met with great resistance.

I might sound like I am rather vocal and disgruntled with public servants in the bureaucracy, it is because I am. I was in that mix for long enough to realise that the one constant in pubeland is infinite inertia and a lot of smeg, a place where brains are checked in at the door and sometimes not picked up at the end of the day.

I couldn’t have said it better myself. Slanderous remarks is something from the Marxist left, along with hurt feelings. I have to temper my language because I hurt someone’s feelings? SMH........

There’s nothing the government does that couldn’t be done by the private sector cheaper, and more effectively. Government has lost it’s function, it’s too big, employs to many people (note I don’t mention the word ‘work’) and is a drain to the tax payer.

The recent report into government management of projects in WA serves to demonstrate the utter incompetence of government bureaucrats ability to make sound financial decisions, or perhaps even more, any sound decisions.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by Romulus

I couldn’t have said it better myself. Slanderous remarks is something from the Marxist left, along with hurt feelings. I have to temper my language because I hurt someone’s feelings? SMH........

There’s nothing the government does that couldn’t be done by the private sector cheaper, and more effectively. Government has lost it’s function, it’s too big, employs to many people (note I don’t mention the word ‘work’) and is a drain to the tax payer.

The recent report into government management of projects in WA serves to demonstrate the utter incompetence of government bureaucrats ability to make sound financial decisions, or perhaps even more, any sound decisions.

Govco only needs to worry about the essential services and nothing else. If it absolves itself of the rest of the crap it takes "responsibility" for, the budget problems would disappear overnight. Dare I say it, a fair whack of the crap currently under the govco umbrella could be discarded altogether (the various arts bodies, anything to do with minorities etc).

The problem then becomes, how does the community reconcile the sole objective for private enterprise (profit) with delivering said service better and more efficiently than it ever was under govco control...

[aussiblue]

The recent report into government management of projects in WA serves to demonstrate the utter incompetence of government bureaucrats ability to make sound financial decisions, or perhaps even more, any sound decisions.

No; that was a result of Barnett and his Cabinet playing King and Coutiers and going against central agencies' (especially Treasury) and senior public servant's advice and also spending unwisely on vanity project such as Victoria Quay.

See the actual report here https://publicsector.wa.gov.au/sites...s_volume_1.pdf and read at least the findings on page 65 onwards.

[aussiblue]

The problem then becomes, how does the community reconcile the sole objective for private enterprise (profit) with delivering said service better and more efficiently than it ever was under govco control...

Show me evidence where in the past a case of privatising a Government services in WA has increased efficiency or reduced the cost to consumers rather than see a private enterprise take advantage of the chance to control a monopoly service, pay directors big salaries and make profits and get these profits and over the top directors salaries by screwing the consumer with increased charges. Yes; there are a few exception and I have no issue with them getting out of the SGIO and the TAB but Landgate, power and water where there is a virtual monopoly supply position no.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

That's not as bad as it sounds, what was in force before was timed school zones which were different for every school!
Now we have 2-
25 when children present
25 when (crossing) lights flashing
I live near a school with the first one and in 5 years I've had to slow down outside of school times only twice, and I've never seen a cop there.

That's probably not too bad then.
There is a school zone I pass all the time that drops from 70km/h to 40kmh for 3 hours a day.
I have passed this school at 40kmh a couple of hundred times I have probably seen kids around less than 10 times. It's a tiny school plus most parents pick up on the residential street behind the school which makes sense.
I would happily slow to 25 if it were only when kids were around.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Gnangara Road, which used to be a single lane road had a gazetted speed limit of 90km/h. Now it's been upgraded to a dual carriage way the speed limit has reduced to 80km/h.........

It's not what the policies say they should do, it's the "Main Roads reserves the right to update this information at any time without notice." which is what we observe happening.

I remember the days when gnangara road was 110 and before that unlimited.
It's a built up area these days with shops etc along it.

80 is sensible, give it time and it will be 60.

[ozrunner]

The major WA metro speed limit change was a sly undertaking by a former Labor Government when a couple of weeks after re election, Michelle Roberts announced that the speed limit for all roads in the Metro area would now be 50kph unless otherwise indicated. No prior indication this was on the table.

There's no problems with this being applicable for all the mini streets in many new suburbs being developed where even Noddy would have had trouble traversing but totally ridiculous for the many older established outer suburbs where many could even be more than 60kph but are now 50kph.

An absolute joke and typical Labor.

[au350hp]

Apart from the obvious fatigue/speed/alcohol factors, driver distraction is the next biggest factor in accidents. The government continues to roll out the same useless approaches every so often, generally when the road toll stats increase annually. If we keep on building cars with communication centres in them, then it normalises multi-tasking behind the wheel. The only solution is to BAN PHONES IN CARS. When I got my license, mobile phones were like a car battery with a full sized handset on top. My point is, we all survived, our businesses ran fine and when you were in your car, the biggest distraction was the stereo if you had one..I can't understand that anybody thinks driving requires less than 100% of your attention, whilst sober, and the powers that be allow us to drink and drive to a point, and a slap on the wrist for using a handset. Bring on the day where in order to progress to your P plates, you must complete an advanced driving course. Real world demonstrations of how little control you have in a car when traction is lost, the distance covered when distracted and all the usual driving lessons involved. I can't think of any negatives associated with a programme designed around safety & awareness. The current system is majorly flawed in my opinion and the only way to change peoples attitudes is to get them at the start of their driving life. Stuffing around with the speed limits, does nothing but offer opportunity for HWP to cash in on confused drivers.

[cairns27]

I think it's like Aussiblue said, we make the laws, me and you. The majority must want lower speed limits..... You are a slow lot over there. I had a bit of a giggle about " when children present"; They're children, they can be there 24/7.

I used to be a Public Servant, They've got no power. So lets just slaughter all Politicians, and hire a CEO.

bye

[cairns27]

Originally Posted by Roostercam

Apart from the obvious fatigue/speed/alcohol factors, driver distraction is the next biggest factor in accidents. The government continues to roll out the same useless approaches every so often, generally when the road toll stats increase annually. If we keep on building cars with communication centres in them, then it normalises multi-tasking behind the wheel. The only solution is to BAN PHONES IN CARS. When I got my license, mobile phones were like a car battery with a full sized handset on top. My point is, we all survived, our businesses ran fine and when you were in your car, the biggest distraction was the stereo if you had one..I can't understand that anybody thinks driving requires less than 100% of your attention, whilst sober, and the powers that be allow us to drink and drive to a point, and a slap on the wrist for using a handset. Bring on the day where in order to progress to your P plates, you must complete an advanced driving course. Real world demonstrations of how little control you have in a car when traction is lost, the distance covered when distracted and all the usual driving lessons involved. I can't think of any negatives associated with a programme designed around safety & awareness. The current system is majorly flawed in my opinion and the only way to change peoples attitudes is to get them at the start of their driving life. Stuffing around with the speed limits, does nothing but offer opportunity for HWP to cash in on confused drivers.

There's a big knock for Advanced driving courses. Apparently they give some drivers a touch too much confidence.

[Rallye Sport]

Double demerits this weekend, wonder if the changes will catch anyone out.
All good here the only one I use regularly has gone up by ten k's... good times.

[aussiblue]

a big knock for Advanced driving courses. Apparently they give some drivers a touch too much confidence.

Yes; I can recall going to a risk management course where spoke about some research that showed, where companies had sent their on advanced driver training courses with the intent of decreasing accidents in company cars, the accident rate significantly increased post training.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by csv8

"Speed limits across Perth have been slashed up to 50km/h as part of a continuing review aimed at making roads safer.
The West Australian can reveal that speed limits on 25 roads have changed over the past 18 months. Of those, 20 have had their speed limits cut.
The biggest changes were in Perth’s outer eastern suburbs. A section of Karbro Drive in Cardup had its 110km/h default speed limit reduced to 60km/h. The speed limits on sections of Barrett Street in Southern River and Pickering Brook Road were reduced from the 110km/h default to 70km/h.
The biggest speed limit increase was in Baldivis, where the stretch of Nairn Drive between Wise Meander and Ridge Boulevard was increased from 50km/h to 70km/h.
“Speed limits across the network are continually assessed to ensure that all WA roads continue to meet driver expectations whilst also achieving a balance between traffic safety, land use amenity and transport efficiency,” a Main Roads spokeswoman said. “Many factors are taken into account during the speed zoning process including the road function, traffic volumes, types of road users, abutting roadside development, the frequency and type of intersections, reported crash data and prevailing traffic speeds.

“The recent changes were implemented because the existing speed zones were no longer considered appropriate for the road environment.”
Main Roads has a detailed set of regulations governing speed limits. But in 2011, then-premier Colin Barnett admitted some speed limits “do not make sense”.
“When I drive on country roads, which I do regularly, I am dismayed at the number of changes in the speed limit,” he said. “For example, it can go from 70km/h to 110km/h back to 80km/h. It makes no sense.”
At the time, a RAC survey of members revealed motorists were often confused by speed limit changes (87 per cent) and unsure of what speed zones they were travelling in (80 per cent in the metropolitan area and 60 per cent on country roads).
Yesterday, RAC general manager corporate affairs Will Golsby said ensuring speed limits reflected road conditions was a vital part of the road safety mix.
“We support and encourage regular reviews of speed limits across all road networks, particularly in areas that have experienced a change in conditions,” he said.
In 2016, most of the significant speed limit changes in the metropolitan area were the creation of more 40km/h zones in areas with “increased pedestrian and traffic movements” often caused by new high-density apartments.
NEW SPEED ZONES
- Berrigan Drive Jandakot: 70km/h to 60km/h between Pilatus Street and Karel Avenue.
- Connolly Drive, Currambine: 60km/h to 70km/h between Neerabup Road and Lukin Drive.
- Indian Ocean Drive: 110km/h to 100km/h between Breakwater Drive and Lancelin Road.
- Lord Street, Dayton: 80km/h to 70km/h between Reid Highway and Harrow Street.
- Daviot Road, Caversham: 80km/h to 70km/h between Reid Highway and Suffolk Street.
- Erindale Road, Hamersley: 70km/h to 60km/h between Balcatta and Beach roads.
- Two Rocks Road, Yanchep: 60km from 90km/h north of Zamia Rise.
- Scotthorn Drive, Alkimos: 40km/h school zone between McGriffen and Brainbridge avenues.
- Wray Avenue, Fremantle: 50km/h to 40km/h between South Terrace and Manning Street
- Perth Airport precinct: 70km/h to 80km/h on Airport Drive northbound between Tonkin Highway and Paltridge Road, on Leach Highway between Abernethy Road and Airport Drive and westbound on Tonkin Highway between Kewdale Road and Airport Drive.
- Farrall Road, Middle Swan: 80km/h to 60km/h between Morrison and O’Connor roads.
- Helena Valley Road, Helena Valley: 70km/h to 60km/h between Midland Road and Allamanda Gate/Drummond Gardens and between Lakeside Gardens and Scott Street.
- Karbro Drive, Cardup: 110km/h to 60km/h between Hopkinson and Soldiers roads.
- South Western Highway, Byford: 80km/h to 60km/h between Nettleton and Cardup Siding roads.
- Barrett Street, Southern River: 110km/h to 70km/h between Balfour and Lakey streets.
- Gilmore Avenue, Kwinana: 70km/h to 60km/h between Berthold Stfreet and Wellard Road.
- Johnson Road, Bertram: 70km/h to 60km/h between Bertram and Millar roads.
- Walcott Street, Mt Lawley: 60km/h to 40km/h between Field and Roy streets.
- Scarborough Beach Road, Mt Hawthorn: 60km/h to 50km between Eucla and Buxton streets and to 40km/h between Buxton and Oxford streets.
- Willmott Drive, Cooloongup: 50km/h to 60km/h between Read Street and Ennis Avenue.
- South Beach Village: 50km/h reduced to 40km/h on many roads.
- Quill Way, Henderson: 50km/h to 60km/h.
- Southern River Road, Huntingdale: 80km/h to 60km between Gay and Holmes streets.
- Pickering Brook Road, Pickering Brook: 110km/h to 70km/h from Kings Mill Road.
- Nairn Drive, Baldivis: 50km/h to 70km/h between Wise Meander and Ridge Boulevard."
https://thewest.com.au/news/perth/sp...-ng-b88751788z

My comment : Revenue raising disguised as road safety,

With the mining boom over they need to generate revenue via other streams.

[au350hp]

Originally Posted by cairns27

There's a big knock for Advanced driving courses. Apparently they give some drivers a touch too much confidence.

I get that but there will always be 'idiots' on the roads so I would rather be sharing the road with an idiot with some understanding of when and how a car loses traction, than not. The idea is to educate all drivers, just like we do now, but give them a broader skill set. The 'idiot' may force another driver to do something drastic, and if that happens, that advanced course maybe the thing that saves them & avoids them hitting others.

[au350hp]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

Yes; I can recall going to a risk management course where spoke about some research that showed, where companies had sent their on advanced driver training courses with the intent of decreasing accidents in company cars, the accident rate significantly increased post training.

I would be very interested to see those studies. Not that I don't believe you, but I can't see why a sales rep for example, would start driving any differently, as they still need to keep their licence & points to keep their job for one. I dare say that was a financial choice as most companies lease fleets, not buy their cars.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

I remember the days when gnangara road was 110 and before that unlimited.
It's a built up area these days with shops etc along it.

80 is sensible, give it time and it will be 60.

Yes, it used to be a bitumised goat track, now it's a modern, dual carriage way from Lord Street round about all the way to Landsdale. There's no reason why the speed limit cant be set at 90-100km/h between the intersections of Drumpellier/Gnangara Road to Alexander Drive.

Government policies indicate speed limits 'should' be set using the 85th percentile as a criteria; it's patently clear this is not the case. We're at the mercy of some unelected, knuckle dragging bureaucrat, who could never cut it in the private sector, making decisions for the masses. Disgraceful.

[Mercury Bullet]

Very soon it's going to carry all the traffic on the perth-darwin hwy extension through ellenbrook.

It's going to be a car park.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

Very soon it's going to carry all the traffic on the perth-darwin hwy extension through ellenbrook.

It's going to be a car park.

Let's see, from where I am in the swan valley it should take 20 minutes less travelling time to get to Kewdale/Welshpool than it currently takes. It will tie in well with the recent Gateway project.

[Mercury Bullet]

Yeah it will be interesting.

I know a lot of people up my way are looking forward to using it.
I only really go to Hillary's or Scarborough so it's still back roads for me.