Australia driving on the Right post '17 (LHD)

[AUwindsor]

Originally Posted by zilo

Sure...BMIO? (*1)

The steer by wire system has so many potential safety benefits that clearly outweigh the drawbacks and any fears of massive failure are statistically unfounded.

Driver assist sub-systems are evolving and steering is a NP (*2) of the vehicle industry's automation. strategy.

As some have mentioned one clear advantage, being "on topic" to this thread is the capability to readily reconfigure the vehicle for either LHD (*3) or RHD (*4) operation.



*1 but my informed opinion
*2 natural progression
*3 left hand drive
*4 right hand drive

Are you developing something like this for your job, by any chance? not hating, im just saying, you seem really defensive about the pros of this

or do you just simply want all the lhd cars to be available to us here in NANNA land (soon to be, we cant compete on a global scale land, but, the powers that be don't care anymore, land)

[zilo]

Originally Posted by AUwindsor

Are you developing something like this for your job, by any chance? not hating, im just saying, you seem really defensive about the pros of this

or do you just simply want all the lhd cars to be available to us here in NANNA land (soon to be, we cant compete on a global scale land, but, the powers that be don't care anymore, land)

Since cars are heading in a totally electric direction I simply see the innevitability of it because electric servo systems with closed loop systems are vastly superior in terms of control, with the sensory feedback being outputted to whatever control system the designer wishes to avail himself of.

We already have adaptive cruise control and when linked with a GPS lane aware system could easily form the basis of a very effective collision/drowsiness avoidance system that utilises car steering systems and throttle control for example.

ECU controlled steering could effectively compliment the ABS system to manouvere a slippery corner on a mountain road making precise corrections in nanoseconds thereby not being reliant on driver reaction times.

Just a couple of potential adaptations that I can think of, am sure there are plenty more.

[Road_Warrior]

We already access global LHD cars just that they are made in RHD format for our market and others. That's why they are global platforms. Incidentally the Australian new car market is one of the most open and competitive in the world so the cries about accessing more models seems to me to be whinging for the sale of having a whinge. As for that guy's argument about tourists..please!

Perhaps American car makers could get with the program and produce global platforms (Mustang S550 anyone?) instead of expecting others to change an entire regulatory scheme and infrastructure network to suit their products. It cuts both ways, something the LHD brigade overlook.

[LoudPipes]

Maybe we could start a list of cars that are LHD and not available here that if they were would actually be a sale success and not just a niche market.

That may put things into perspective for the grass is greener on the other side crowd.

[Franco Cozzo]

People are buying a few F series class vehicles from Performax International and from companies like VDC, its in the few hundreds per year now.

[Yellow_Festiva]

I think Samoa recently flipped from driving on the right to driving on the left. Apparently to access cheaper Japanese cars.

[Bonn]

Originally Posted by zilo

Since cars are heading in a totally electric direction I simply see the innevitability of it because electric servo systems with closed loop systems are vastly superior in terms of control, with the sensory feedback being outputted to whatever control system the designer wishes to avail himself of.

We already have adaptive cruise control and when linked with a GPS lane aware system could easily form the basis of a very effective collision/drowsiness avoidance system that utilises car steering systems and throttle control for example.

ECU controlled steering could effectively compliment the ABS system to manouvere a slippery corner on a mountain road making precise corrections in nanoseconds thereby not being reliant on driver reaction times.

Just a couple of potential adaptations that I can think of, am sure there are plenty more.

Might have been worthwhile saying that in the first place, rather than launching into unprovoked personal attacks on fellow AFF members that happen to express a personal preference. No wonder some members will hesitate to contribute to discussions.....

I took issue with:
1) being called a brain-dead rock-ape and luddite that wouldn't have been able to handle or understand the 'new technology' of power steering, had this discussion occurred in the fifties, promptly followed by

2) being called a three-letter-ancronym-loving w&nker for mentioning a widely accepted machinery/system/component rating, that just happens to be designated 'SIL1', 'SIL2', 'SIL3' & 'SIL4', dependent upon meantime to failure, as a function of repeated operations.

Two pieces of advice; Watch yourself and save the snide comments for around the water bubbler.

Over and Out

[Davehoos]

On a Tv show like top gear they showed a asian state [Myanmar ?] that changed to Drive on the Right but uses RHD cars.--the program showed it worked fine except the busses and the Tram like bus stops in the center of heavy traffic.

I have driven several times in the USA on holidays, about 20 000miles.
the complication is turning right from a one way street. The americans are smart, round about not very common.

I would prefer a lience driving test method to allow modified or non standard vehicle. I have a lience to drive a crash box truck-know of people that have lience to drive from home to a destination. Rego for older cars-In metro areas of NSW the average age of vehicle would show up that a 15 year old-[I thought it was 30], would only be used by collector and not a daily transport.. In my area of NSW average age of private owned cars would be 15-25 years old so these cant be blanket allowed to be classed as collectables.

I think lot of the crap that goes with this show that authorities are not serious. Going by some of the news bulletons I get I think that there is little thought going any place.

Garbage trucks and street sweepers have to be the most stressfull vehicle on OZ roads bar road side mowing and over sized loads. After being used for the job the driver has to swap back to the RHS to transport back--any B/S about safety and spacial judgement has gone out window as this is the preffered position. . would it not be safer to buy an off the shelf unmodified LHD truck that was made in a factory to be driven safely.

Drive By wire-I have driven and service medium size joy stick controlled vehicles-until they make the road control most the vehicle position on road then they should not be on the road with out restriction.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by HELLOYOU

People cant even drive on the correct side as it is, both young and old.

Correct. Driving standards should be raised to a minimum level as a PPL license (Private Pilots License).

We'd rid the roads of at least 85% of Australian drivers. Maybe then we could open the speed limits up as well.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Bonn

Might have been worthwhile saying that in the first place, rather than launching into unprovoked personal attacks on fellow AFF members that happen to express a personal preference. No wonder some members will hesitate to contribute to discussions.....

I took issue with:
1) being called a brain-dead rock-ape and luddite that wouldn't have been able to handle or understand the 'new technology' of power steering, had this discussion occurred in the fifties, promptly followed by

2) being called a three-letter-ancronym-loving w&nker for mentioning a widely accepted machinery/system/component rating, that just happens to be designated 'SIL1', 'SIL2', 'SIL3' & 'SIL4', dependent upon meantime to failure, as a function of repeated operations.

Two pieces of advice; Watch yourself and save the snide comments for around the water bubbler.

Over and Out

Now you threaten me?

You are a troll.

[MITCHAY]

It obviously can't be much of an issue if we have so many manufacturers selling cars here.

It is not worth converting a whole road network over to cater for LHD drive cars to save a few $$$ on a car.

Especially since it has long been proven, that despite Aussies knowing they are getting ripped off on pretty much everything, they will still pay for it.

[AUwindsor]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Especially since it has long been proven, that despite Aussies knowing they are getting ripped off on pretty much everything, they will still pay for it.

the best one for those reaping the profits, is the aussie who will spend extra on things just to show off he's got money!!!!!!!!!!

you wont see a 100k+ $AUD taxi on my door, when I know they pay half (exchange rate converted) for some of the same cars a short flight across the pond......

[imugli]

Regarding Steer by Wire, it's already here -

http://www.wired.com/2014/06/infinit...steer-by-wire/

[LoudPipes]

Mercedes were going to introduce Steer-by-Wire a few years back but market research indicated motorists at the time wouldn't buy cars without steering columns. They put it on the back burner while looking at more palatable options until the technology became more acceptable.



A couple of older articles.

Automotive News

By-wire age is coming; what's missing is trust

Systems slash weight, but fear of glitches keeps backup gear in cars

Lindsay Chappell RSS feed
Automotive News
December 2, 2013

Gingerly, the auto industry is stepping up the push for car features that work by electronic impulses instead of metal pumps, pinions and cylinders.

The motivation is clear: Vehicle technologies lumped together as "X-by-wire" -- brake-by-wire, steer-by-wire, drive-by-wire -- promise to make cars lighter, safer, easier to build and more fuel efficient.

But selling that point has been tough.

While the technology has been advancing for at least 20 years, its progress has been impeded by consumers fearful of runaway cars and luxury owners persnickety about unfamiliar driving sensations. A recent lawsuit against Toyota Motor Corp. successfully used a "ghost in the machine" argument to turn a jury against Toyota's use of throttle-by-wire. The argument questions whether safeguards and regulations can protect a driver from the occurrence of software glitches.

Those concerns have restrained the industry's zeal for X-by-wire.

Until now.

Powerful global industry factors, such as the mandate for better fuel economy and the competition for emerging markets, are stimulating new interest by automakers in X-by-wire systems. Not least among them is the new industry race for self-driving vehicles, which proponents say is impossible without X-by-wire.

On the very near horizon are advances in electronic braking that will make inattentive drivers safer, electronically controlled gear shift systems that will keep the most inexperienced drivers from stalling their cars, adjustable chassis to compensate for inferior road conditions, and tunable steering systems that give luxury drivers and enthusiasts more control over the driving experience.

"These technologies are gaining traction," reports Robert Beaver, chief engineer for brake maker Continental Teves' North American vehicle dynamics business. "Customers are lining up for them. There's a big movement for new solutions."

Conti and other technology giants have been working for years to move the market on X-by-wire auto systems. In the past few years, the biggest area of growth has been among electric cars and hybrid vehicles, including the Toyota Prius and the Lexus CT 200h, which use a shift-by-wire transmission.

Conti engineers are developing a brake system with the internal name "MKC1" that will reach the market in 2018. The company declines to reveal what vehicles are scheduled to receive it. But it will give Conti customers in Europe and North America smaller, lighter, electronically controlled brakes that do not use a vacuum pump -- a standard building block of traditional mechanical brakes.

"Until now, we've been putting brake-by-wire on hybrids and electrics," Beaver says. "We're going to start putting them into standard gasoline vehicles.

"We're going to see a drastic reduction in the number of parts in the car as we move into wire systems," he adds, referring to X-by-wire concepts in general. "There won't be vacuum pumps anymore. Power steering pumps are going to disappear, and we're going to electric steering."

It's not that removing pumps makes for an inherently better vehicle. It is that automakers desperately want to improve fuel economy on the coming generation of vehicles. And that means ending the standard engineering practice of running various pumps off of engine power, like so many extension chords plugged into a wall socket.

Fewer devices draining power from the engine means better fuel economy.

Brake, clutch by wire

Competitor Robert Bosch GmbH is on a similar track with an electronic brake system it plans to introduce under the name iBooster. Bosch is also preparing to begin supplying a clutch-by-wire system called the eClutch.

The iBooster will improve energy efficiency on electric and hybrid vehicles by using an electric motor to boost braking power in place of a vacuum pump, says Bosch technology spokesman Udo Ruegheimer.

By building up braking pressure in a third of the time required by a traditional system, iBooster enables a more instantaneous brake response, which will be the foundation for an autonomous-drive vehicle.

Bosch's eClutch allows drivers of stick-shift cars to smooth out the engine surge of rpms between gears, which promises to improve fuel consumption by about 10 percent. Using sensors to monitor engine acceleration and deceleration, it anticipates gear changes, allows drivers to start in second gear from a standing stop, and dispenses with some clutch work while driving.

The by-wire technology also prevents engine stall. An eClutch car will continue idling when stopped, even if the driver fails to put his foot on the clutch pedal.

That feature lends itself to emerging markets, which tend to favor small manual-transmission vehicles. The technology should prove attractive to inexperienced drivers in stick-shift cars, as well as commuters facing the stop-and-go clutch-work of heavy traffic congestion, Ruegheimer says. It allows automakers to program the same by-wire clutch system to use in different vehicles.

"You give the clutch the characteristics you wish through the software," he says. "It can have one characteristic in an American sedan, and another for an Italian racer."

Infiniti steer-by-wire

This summer, luxury marque Infiniti introduced steer-by-wire as an option on its new Q50 sedan. Nissan developed the system internally and markets it as Direct Adaptive Steering.

Infiniti market planners have mostly promoted the feature as a luxury innovation. Because the steering is governed by software settings rather than mechanical pumps and shafts, drivers will be able to scroll through settings on the car's touch screen to select the steering feel they want for any particular drive. One steering setting might be attractive for performance driving on an isolated stretch of country road. A softer setting might be preferable for driving slowly through a crowded shopping mall parking lot.

But Infiniti also says steer-by-wire addresses driving safety.

"By eliminating the mechanical losses that can dull the responses in conventional systems," the company's marketing material reads, "steering response is faster and vibration at the steering wheel is eliminated."

The hybrid version of the Q50 includes Direct Adaptive Steering as standard. To obtain the system on a gas-powered Q50 requires the purchase of a deluxe tech package that costs $5,000 but includes other features.

The new technologies might help simplify vehicle development in the future. But they are certain to come with higher retail costs. Because of current safety regulations, most of them require backup components, which means redundant parts.

Fewer parts, less weight

Clearly, diverse issues are breathing new life into the technologies. Among them:

n Wire-based driving systems themselves require fewer moving parts -- aside from the requirements for redundancy. A steer-by-wire system directs the wheels primarily through an electrical wire, controllers and a software system. Having fewer parts would simplify a vehicle's manufacturing process. It means it is theoretically easier to design it into a vehicle model -- and easier to design it into a list of other models an automaker might want to spin off of the same platform. That means potentially lower development costs.

The industry's general feeling is that there always will be regulatory requirements for some form of safety-system redundancy. But future redundant systems will be simplified and pared down to fewer parts.

n Having fewer parts also translates to reduced vehicle weight, which appeals to automakers straining to meet fuel economy targets.

n Programmed microprocessor-based electronic safety systems can react to road issues in a fraction of the time it takes a driver to respond. That, in turn, helps prepare consumers for where the auto industry wants to take them in the coming decade: to autonomous-drive vehicles capable of stopping, turning, swerving and accelerating with no human input.

"The industry has no choice but to go to X-by-wire," says Egil Juliussen, principal analyst for advanced driver assistance systems at IHS Automotive. "It has had some problems getting started in the past few years.

"But now it's a different issue. You can't achieve autonomous driving vehicles without steer-by-wire and brake-by-wire."

The industry has been ballyhooing such technologies since the 1990s. And indeed, one piece of it -- "throttle-by-wire" -- already is widely accepted. Most new cars now accelerate according to electronic impulses received by throttle-position sensors instead of wires and valves.

But applying that same science to braking and steering has been a bit more challenging.

Mercedes' retreat

Mercedes-Benz blazed a trail into brake-by-wire a decade ago, with a system on its flagship E class marketed under the name Sensotronic Brake Control. But after it caused complaints and recalls -- mostly stemming from Mercedes owners' fears that the system too often failed and kicked on the car's more sluggish mechanical backup system -- Mercedes scrapped the technology and fell back onto traditional brakes.

Lexus uses a version of brake-by-wire in its low-volume LFA, although few consumers will ever see it. And the current Lexus CT 200h hybrid has luxury-class drivers changing gears by shift-by-wire. But that technology reached Lexus only because it was already engineered into the car's Toyota-brand version, the Prius. A Lexus spokesman declined to say whether the technology might spread into other Lexus models.

But even the widely used concept of throttle-by-wire has had its problems. Just last month an Oklahoma jury awarded two plaintiffs $3 million in damages in their case against Toyota. Lawyers successfully cast doubt on the safety of the electronic throttle system of a 2005 Camry without specifically proving that it caused the car to accelerate out of control in 2007, killing the driver and injuring a passenger.

Last year Toyota moved to settle hundreds of other lawsuits about allegedly out-of-control throttles, agreeing to pay $1 billion.

Juliussen says that the challenge to adopting more X-by-wire solutions in the coming decade is the same as it was a decade ago: Consumers have to be reassured that the systems work and can be trusted.

"There's no question that X-by-wire technology will bring all sorts of benefits to the industry," he says. "But automakers will really have to work hard at making sure their customers are willing to come along with them."

http://www.autonews.com/article/20131202/OEM06/312029967/by-wire-age-is-coming;-whats-missing-is-trust

Popular Mechanics

Active Steering Comes to Mercedes-Benz

February 12, 2013

Mercedes-Benz Active Steering

Of the flurry of advanced safety features debuting on the 2014 Mercedes-Benz E-Class (many of which presage the stuff you'll see on the upcoming S-Class flagship), Distronic Plus with Steering Assist is likely the most polarizing.

Unlike their so-called Active Lane Keeping Assist system, which gently steers the vehicle away from oncoming traffic by braking the inside wheels while vibrating the steering wheel as a warning, Mercedes-Benz's Steering Assist function uses Distronic Plus adaptive cruise control in conjunction with stereoscopic cameras and steer-by-wire electronics to keep the car centered in its lane based on lane marker detection and the presence of vehicles ahead.

While it's not quite the stuff of completely autonomous cars, this latest features certainly take big steps in that direction, especially considering its cameras are robust enough to perceive objects which are nearly 1,640 feet, or 1/3 mile, away.

The most reassuring takeaways from our recent E-Class test drive? One Mercedes-Benz engineer, who told us the system is sensitive enough to know when a someone's hands are on the wheel, but that ultimate control is always ceded to the driver-- which is good news for us, since the last thing we want to do in a panic situation is have to wrestle Hal for control of our car.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/news/auto-blog/active-steering-comes-to-mercedes-benz

[Ford17]

Was watching a Top Gear episode the other day, where Clarkson was 'correcting' somebody who had an adverse opinion on RHD cars.

He said something along the lines of: "No, the steering wheel is on the Right side; yours is on the wrong side."

And I'm sure he had no doubts whatsoever his belief was correct, of course.

[Davehoos]

A few international contractor brought in for engineering job have told me off the cuff that it would be better if Australia was LHD because there is more personal symmetry[sp?] with a original design LHD compared to a converted to LHD post design.

I think it a load of crap that goes along with the its too hard to make a falcon LHD.

When I worked at landrover the vehicle was made for both LHD/RHD the silliness is that some parts could easily be used on both but they chose to have two or three parts for the job. and at great expence items like the chasis body panels and some axle parts could be used for both. The LHD was far worse due to the insistence of fitting the throttle on the right jambed up on the trans tunnel.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Davehoos

A few international contractor brought in for engineering job have told me off the cuff that it would be better if Australia was LHD because there is more personal symmetry[sp?] with a original design LHD compared to a converted to LHD post design.

I think it a load of crap that goes along with the its too hard to make a falcon LHD.

.

I have found that it's not a load of crap.

In my paddock I have a shell of a vehicle that was LHD and then adapted for the Aus RHD market.

I cut through it with a power cutting saw and discovered that there is extra reinforcing in the left hand chassis rail which would provides more structure for the driver in a LHD seating position.

The chassis is a box profile with an extra layer whithin the box.

The chassis is otherwise symmetrical except in the engine mount structure being a front wheel drive chassis.

I am convinced that in a LHD collision the driver would be marginally safer whether by extra steel or intended collision dynamics.

The vehicle is a Mitsubishi Galant sold in Aus as a 380.

It was quite a surprise and something to think about.

[Davehoos]

engine on a 380 is fitted on the right and provides more impact mass.so the left side would require strength.

Sale training claims it was to reduce production cost and reduce power [fuel economy] losses from the removal of the dummy shaft in all early mitubishi transmissions with engine on the left.

But my guess it is for the tourque steer. most Japanese RWD have solid box chasis in the right hand side. this is explained in sales training manuals to improve steering.

another claim was that the body should crush away from the driver as the steering tended to entude into the cab on older bodies.

[Bonn]

From: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-0...nkedin.company
Ford CEO Fields Predicts Driverless Cars on Roads in 5 Years
By Keith Naughton Jan 7, 2015 6:04 AM ET

Jan. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Mark Fields, chief executive officer at Ford, discusses the automaker’s approach to driverless cars, the future of automobile technology, and balancing shareholder dividends with increased investment in the company. He speaks with Bloomberg’s Brad Stone from the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas on “Market Makers.”
Ford Motor Co. (F) Chief Executive Officer Mark Fields said that an automaker probably will introduce a self-driving vehicle within half a decade, but it won’t be his company, which is focusing on less expensive features that assist in driving.
“Fully autonomous vehicles are a real possibility,” Fields said at a Jan. 5 dinner with analysts and journalists on the eve of the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas. “Probably, in the next five years, you’ll see somebody introduce autonomous vehicles.”
Automakers are racing to develop self-driving cars that safely transport commuters in congested urban areas. At the same conference, Daimler AG (DAI) CEO Dieter Zetsche unveiled the Mercedes-Benz F 015, a concept car that can autonomously move people.
If Ford’s forecast comes true, consumers may someday be able to buy a vehicle without a steering wheel or brake pedals that would operate in auto-pilot mode, driving more efficiently and reducing traffic jams. In the meantime, automakers are seeking a piece of the $11.3 billion in factory-installed technologies going into cars this year, according to the Consumer Electronics Association.
The F 015 Mercedes concept car has four seats, including the driver’s, that can face each other, rather than the road, Daimler said today in Las Vegas. Six screens allow passengers to monitor information about the vehicle and the outside world, using technology that responds to eye movements and gestures.