Will the Holden brand survive?

[Nikked]

I've noticed the local Holden dealer is showing more tv ads for its Kia and Mitsubishi franchises...this dealer had a massive referb a few years back for its holden showroom and workshop too...

[JIm260]

Our local Holden dealer is focusing its ads on its Mazda sales and only mentions Holden in terms of servicing and parts supply.


Cheers
Jim

[Syndrome]

Nasty times for Holden dealers. Makes their mid 1980s turmoil pale into insignificance.


What Muirs Holden looked like last year:


https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-33....7i13312!8i6656

[solarite_guy]

There was once a saying to the effect "what's good for GM is good for America". Looks like that mentality may have caught with them in Australia in dramatic fashion.

I know I am an outsider and miss a lot of the day to day details on issues, but this situation with GM certainly comes across as a handful of "smart people" making decisions in a vacuum.

[Nikked]

I think Holden just took its patronage for granted, ford wooed us with the Mustang and the Ranger is enough of a hit to forget that ford was once the "Falcon car company".

Perhaps they just underestimated how much the Commodore meant to the Holden brand, to Australia at least...the commodore seems to be doing ok in NZ.

[danzvtil]

https://www.caradvice.com.au/685429/...rending&slot=1

Barina gone.

[Trendseeker]

Our local Holden dealer has split their showroom and yard into thirds. Volkswagen and Volvo now occupy the other two thirds of the dealership.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

Our local Holden dealer has split their showroom and yard into thirds. Volkswagen and Volvo now occupy the other two thirds of the dealership.

It is the only way that they can survive,by multi-franchising.The local Ford dealer in my area also sells MG,KIA & Isuzu ute.Cheers

[BAWITHLOT]

Originally Posted by hackney

It is the only way that they can survive,by multi-franchising.The local Ford dealer in my area also sells MG,KIA & Isuzu ute.Cheers

Even here in the big smoke, the dealers are selling every brand. What is does do is allow you to almost check every model at the one place!

[hackney]

Originally Posted by BAWITHLOT

Even here in the big smoke, the dealers are selling every brand. What is does do is allow you to almost check every model at the one place!

It is all about survival.You cannot rely on one brand alone ie: Ford or Holden.Gone are those days of the big three.Cheers

[Trendseeker]

Originally Posted by hackney

It is the only way that they can survive,by multi-franchising.The local Ford dealer in my area also sells MG,KIA & Isuzu ute.Cheers

Yep, that’s my point. The brands that are not large enough can’t stand alone. That wasn’t an issue for Holden a few years ago, but not any more. The local Toyota and Mazda dealers don’t sell any other brands. The local Ford dealer also sells Renault.

[EBSXR6]

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

Yep, that’s my point. The brands that are not large enough can’t stand alone. That wasn’t an issue for Holden a few years ago, but not any more. The local Toyota and Mazda dealers don’t sell any other brands. The local Ford dealer also sells Renault.

In the Capital cities quite a lot of Dealers are controlled by Companies that have a lot of different dealers. Preston Motors, Jefferson Automotive Group, Automotive Holdings Group and Gasmak Motor group are a few.

[Trendseeker]

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

In the Capital cities quite a lot of Dealers are controlled by Companies that have a lot of different dealers. Preston Motors, Jefferson Automotive Group, Automotive Holdings Group and Gasmak Motor group are a few.

Agreed, but they maintain separate showrooms and yards for the brands that can stand alone. The brands with smaller sales volumes are sold from the one showroom and yard, and that is what has happened to the local Holden dealership that has operated in the area since the sixties. It’s single showroom and yard, which is quite large and once sold only new Holdens, plus any variety of traded used cars, now hosts 3 brands.

[jpd80]

Mazda's success in Australia must be a real kick in the balls for Ford,
they had all of that potential to partner on vehicles and threw it away...

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Mazda's success in Australia must be a real kick in the balls for Ford,
they had all of that potential to partner on vehicles and threw it away...

How's Mazda doing in the US, Europe and even their home market though?

I'd say it'd be much of a muchness for Ford if they had partnered with them, even though the Mazda range is pretty good overall.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

How's Mazda doing in the US, Europe and even their home market though?

I'd say it'd be much of a muchness for Ford if they had partnered with them, even though the Mazda range is pretty good overall.

Merely commenting on the Australian situation where sales have really kicked on,
there's something quirky about mazda's range and Aussie tastes that seem to match up...

[jpd80]

and with the right mix of car franchises, it means that a dealer group can capture a broad
range of buyers without really competing with each other, the combined sales is usually
better than would be the case if they were separate free standing dealerships.

Survival yes but also smart in that dealership groups are becoming more like supermarkets.

[EBSXR6]

I was talking to a mate the other day and GM pulled the pin on the dealer in the town where he lives and the Dealer was a top level Master dealer. There is one new car dealer in the town and the farmers are all buying their utes from that dealer.

We were talking about the future of Car Dealerships and he thinks the days are numbered.
People will buy online and the dealers will be a service centre, with a few cars in stock for a test drive.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

I was talking to a mate the other day and GM pulled the pin on the dealer in the town where he lives and the Dealer was a top level Master dealer. There is one new car dealer in the town and the farmers are all buying their utes from that dealer.

We were talking about the future of Car Dealerships and he thinks the days are numbered.
People will buy online and the dealers will be a service centre, with a few cars in stock for a test drive.

There is a Ford service center for Bayford in North Melbourne, its not a full dealership just an official workshop.

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

I was talking to a mate the other day and GM pulled the pin on the dealer in the town where he lives and the Dealer was a top level Master dealer. There is one new car dealer in the town and the farmers are all buying their utes from that dealer.

We were talking about the future of Car Dealerships and he thinks the days are numbered.
People will buy online and the dealers will be a service centre, with a few cars in stock for a test drive.

Here's an idea for an enterprising company or person...

You open a "new car supermarket" as a broker and partner with the big dealerships for every brand of mass-produced car on the Australian market.

You set up a huge showroom in an area where there are not many new car dealerships represented. Every new popular car... Under one roof.

The partnering car dealerships supply a new demo car of each model on consignment, so little expense in financing the cars for your showroom.

Basically, the advantage for them is you are selling their cars in an area they are not located, so expanding their customer base geographically.

Consumers can then come to your new car supermarket, test drive the cars, and once they decide on the one they want with all the options, you then organise the deal at the best price through the partnering dealerships and receive a decent commission for broking the deal.

That way, the car makers can't get upset, as you are not actually selling the new cars directly, just acting as a sub-agent or broker.

The idea could also be expanded to include different automotive services and fitting of aftermarket parts, So a complete "One stop shop" for everything automotive.

[PG2]

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

I was talking to a mate the other day and GM pulled the pin on the dealer in the town where he lives and the Dealer was a top level Master dealer. There is one new car dealer in the town and the farmers are all buying their utes from that dealer.

We were talking about the future of Car Dealerships and he thinks the days are numbered.
People will buy online and the dealers will be a service centre, with a few cars in stock for a test drive.

This was being discussed when I worked for a big multi-brand franchise back in the late 90s early 00s.

Essentially one person working the floor and and ordering your car through a menu - similar to McDonalds.

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

Here's an idea for an enterprising company or person...

You open a "new car supermarket" as a broker and partner with the big dealerships for every brand of mass-produced car on the Australian market.

You set up a huge showroom in an area where there are not many new car dealerships represented. Every new popular car... Under one roof.

The partnering car dealerships supply a new demo car of each model on consignment, so little expense in financing the cars for your showroom.

Basically, the advantage for them is you are selling their cars in an area they are not located, so expanding their customer base geographically.

Consumers can then come to your new car supermarket, test drive the cars, and once they decide on the one they want with all the options, you then organise the deal at the best price through the partnering dealerships and receive a decent commission for broking the deal.

That way, the car makers can't get upset, as you are not actually selling the new cars directly, just acting as a sub-agent or broker.

The idea could also be expanded to include different automotive services and fitting of aftermarket parts, So a complete "One stop shop" for everything automotive.

Unless things have changed...

Under a dealers licence agreement you cannot display cars outside your location. There are exemptions whereby you can display cars at exhibitions etc but you can not put cars in another location where business is conducted.

You will find that car makers have these sort of rules as well and were implement just to stop that sort of stuff you mentioned above from happening.

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by PG2

Unless things have changed...

Under a dealers licence agreement you cannot display cars outside your location. There are exemptions whereby you can display cars at exhibitions etc but you can not put cars in another location where business is conducted.

You will find that car makers have these sort of rules as well and were implement just to stop that sort of stuff you mentioned above from happening.

So I guess the way around this would be for the new car supermarket broker to buy the demo cars at trade price from the partnering dealers, then sell them off as used, when new models are released.
That way the dealers no longer officially own them so can't be guilty of displaying them outside their assigned regions.

[PG2]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

So I guess the way around this would be for the new car supermarket broker to buy the demo cars at trade price from the partnering dealers, then sell them off as used, when new models are released.
That way the dealers no longer officially own them so can't be guilty of displaying them outside their assigned regions.

The issue you have with brokers is that they have to buy the cars off dealers anyway. Brokers buy cars off dealers at effectively retail/ABN/small business prices. Unless something has changed, car makers don't give extra dealer bonuses for car brokers.

As a result, brokers work on very small profit margins. They can't very well advertise to come to them to get a great deal and then charge much more than a dealer would.

Because car brokers work on such small margins they would not be able to absorb the costs of having half a dozen demos sitting out the front depreciating. They also would have to pay someone for all of the associated costs of detailing the cars and general maintenance.

Then there would be the added cost of staff organising test drives etc and spending time with the clients going through all of the features within the car. You would also have to spend money on training staff in product knowledge (let's not get into the argument of the standard of product knowledge that current salespeople have).

Not trying to burst your bubble mate but if this was all possible and there was a dollar to be made there would be plenty of ex-car dealers/salespeople out there doing it.

[Bossxr8]

They had another horror month, and are struggling just to stay in the top 10. Finished 9th last month.

[BENT_8]

They sold 1600 units fewer than Ford and if you take utes from both brands out of the equation they outsold the rest of Fords lineup by 400 units and they dont even have a sports coupe to compete with Mustang.

[jpd80]

Not having a shot at you or your logic but,
You do realise that the majority of that 400 difference comes from Holden's
better bottom end sales, segments where profitability is comparatively less
and clearly where Ford couldn't do any worse if it tried......

Barina (229), Trax (550), Astra (571) and Equinox (407)........Total = 1,757
Fiesta (18), Ecosport (84), Focus (358) and Escape (403).........Total = 589

Notice how the difference declines as we move away from the subcompacts.
Above those segments, it's a lot harder for Holden fans to take comfort
so I'm not surprised that you cherry pick certain upper segments....

perhaps I just leave the figures here for you to think about....

Ford EcoSport 84
Ford Escape 403
Ford Everest 492
Ford Fiesta 18
Ford Focus 358
Ford Mondeo 128
Ford Mustang 736
Ford Ranger 4X2 432
Ford Ranger 4X4 3,083
Ford Transit Custom 178
Ford Transit Heavy 49





Holden Astra 571
Holden Barina 229
Holden Captiva 266
Holden Colorado 4X2 170
Holden Colorado 4X4 1,269
Holden Commodore 682
Holden Equinox 407
Holden Spark 11
Holden Trailblazer 197
Holden Trax 550
Holden Utility 4X2 4

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Not having a shot at you or your logic but,
You do realise that the majority of that 400 difference comes from Holden's
better bottom end sales, segments where profitability is comparatively less
and clearly where Ford couldn't do any worse if it tried......

Barina (229), Trax (550), Astra (571) and Equinox (407)........Total = 1,757
Fiesta (18), Ecosport (84), Focus (358) and Escape (403).........Total = 589

Notice how the difference declines as we move away from the subcompacts.
Above those segments, it's a lot harder for Holden fans to take comfort
so I'm not surprised that you cherry pick certain upper segments....

perhaps I just leave the figures here for you to think about....

Ford EcoSport 84
Ford Escape 403
Ford Everest 492
Ford Fiesta 18
Ford Focus 358
Ford Mondeo 128
Ford Mustang 736
Ford Ranger 4X2 432
Ford Ranger 4X4 3,083
Ford Transit Custom 178
Ford Transit Heavy 49





Holden Astra 571
Holden Barina 229
Holden Captiva 266
Holden Colorado 4X2 170
Holden Colorado 4X4 1,269
Holden Commodore 682
Holden Equinox 407
Holden Spark 11
Holden Trailblazer 197
Holden Trax 550
Holden Utility 4X2 4

I dont need to think about **** to be honest, im not a bean counter so i dont care who sells the higher margin cars, my point was that despite the discrepancy of sales and ladder position, Holden are still selling a greater spread of their range than Ford.
Holden dont have a competitor for Mustang, Transit custom or transit heavy which account for 960 of the 1600 unit deficeit so when comparing apples with apples its really only a 650 unit margin.

Holdens ladder position over the past 6 months is more to do with the performance of Kia, VW and Nissan and it wont be long before they are knocking loudly on Fords door at no5 as well.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I dont need to think about **** to be honest, im not a bean counter so i dont care who sells the higher margin cars, my point was that despite the discrepancy of sales and ladder position, Holden are still selling a greater spread of their range than Ford.
Holden dont have a competitor for Mustang, Transit custom or transit heavy which account for 960 of the 1600 unit deficeit so when comparing apples with apples its really only a 650 unit margin.

Holdens ladder position over the past 6 months is more to do with the performance of Kia, VW and Nissan and it wont be long before they are knocking loudly on Fords door at no5 as well.

Solid melt.

JPD made a solid point that Holdens extra sales in passenger cars are mostly segments where profits are nearly non-existant. Especially for Holden who are forced to discount the crap out of them just to get them off the lot. Their profit levels must be comically low.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I dont need to think about **** to be honest, im not a bean counter so i dont care who sells the higher margin cars, my point was that despite the discrepancy of sales and ladder position, Holden are still selling a greater spread of their range than Ford.
Holden dont have a competitor for Mustang, Transit custom or transit heavy which account for 960 of the 1600 unit deficeit so when comparing apples with apples its really only a 650 unit margin.

Holdens ladder position over the past 6 months is more to do with the performance of Kia, VW and Nissan and it wont be long before they are knocking loudly on Fords door at no5 as well.

Honestly, from your lips to God's ears that's true for Holden.

We simply can't ignore Ford's more successful vehicles to conjure some sort
of moral victory for Holden,that like living in bigger denial than Holden's execs.

Holden's ladder position over the last six months has more to do with it's lack
of buyers - it's not Ford's fault that Holden couldn't get a factory RHD Camaro
or that it can't get a relatively fresh Colorado to sell worth a damn against
an ageing Ranger.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Holden's biggest problem are margins, at wholesale and also dealer level. Theres very little fat left in cars with the push to move them.



Ford are also struggling with margins as per why you will no longer see online advertising on carsales come the end of this month. Yes Ford has a huge sales volume with Ranger but the margins at dealer level are quite low. No point in selling 4000 vehicles a month with $100 profit in each one. With the changes to to the finance industry and what commission dealers can make out of selling finance you will see a big shake up across the industry. My bet is cars will have less discounting in the future as dealers try to survive the hit that they are about to endure.