My FGX XR8 denied warranty

[Whitey-AMG]

Was just having a flick through the Ford Australia warranty info and it seems the boys in blue are also in the same bucket of ?!'& as Kempy as Ford won't cover cop cars either...

Point 4 in the warranty exclusions list

4. Is being used as a police or other emergency vehicle.

http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/BlobS...=max-age=86400

[WHYME]

Not that I'd condone this sort of behaviour, but you're pretty much safer (in terms of warranty and insurance) thrashing your FPV's down the public roads than the track. At least you'll still be covered if anything goes wrong mechanically/and or if cosmetic damage occurs. Just sayin'

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Fully6

Not that I'd condone this sort of behaviour, but you're pretty much safer (in terms of warranty and insurance) thrashing your FPV's down the public roads than the track. At least you'll still be covered if anything goes wrong mechanically/and or if cosmetic damage occurs. Just sayin'

They'll repair your supercharger whilst the car is being impounded. Meanwhile the cop car that chased you that blew it's trans isn't covered..... World has gone nuts.

[JG33]

Some people need to read this carefully:

8. When will the Ford Vehicle Warranty not apply?

The Ford Vehicle Warranty will not apply unless the Part which is alleged to be defective is found by Ford to be defective in factory materials or workmanship under normal and proper use and operation within Australia. Accordingly, the Ford Vehicle Warranty will not apply if the failure of the Part in the Vehicle to which your claim relates is caused by or is attributable to:
• misuse of such Part or of the Vehicle;
• failure to properly maintain and care for the Vehicle;
• failure to have the Vehicle properly, regularly and punctually serviced in accordance with the instructions and recommendations specified for the Vehicle by Ford; or
• exceeding the operating or capacity limitations specified for the Vehicle by Ford in the use and operation of the Vehicle.

In this regard, overloading the Vehicle, using it on obviously unsuitable terrain or surfaces are instances, but not the only instances, of abnormal or improper use or operation which could cause or result in the failure of a Part and lead to a rejection of a claim in connection with such Part under the Ford Vehicle Warranty.

A claim under the Ford Vehicle Warranty will also be rejected if a Modification (other than a Modification made by, or at the direction of, Ford) is made to the Vehicle by, or for you and such Modification adversely affects the Performance / Compliance of the Part in respect of which such claim is made.
In this regard the use of a part, component, assembly, equipment or accessory not supplied or approved by Ford will be regarded as a Modification and may lead to the rejection of a claim under the Ford Vehicle Warranty if the use of such part, component, assembly, equipment or accessory adversely affects the Performance / Compliance of a Part in respect of which a claim is made under the Ford Vehicle Warranty.

[kazawaki]

Yep that's why theres no exhaust mods on my pursuit, no wider tyres ,no wheel changes, no flash tune.No posts on media .Like a lot of things in todays world your guilty until you can prove your innocence .

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by Fully6

Not that I'd condone this sort of behaviour, but you're pretty much safer (in terms of warranty and insurance) thrashing your FPV's down the public roads than the track. At least you'll still be covered if anything goes wrong mechanically/and or if cosmetic damage occurs. Just sayin'

It's still 'misuse', whether at the drag strip or on a public road. If there's evidence of misuse, good luck trying to claim anything on warranty.

[Mowdit]

Originally Posted by JG33

Some people need to read this carefully:

8. When will the Ford Vehicle Warranty not apply?

The Ford Vehicle Warranty will not apply unless the Part which is alleged to be defective is found by Ford to be defective in factory materials or workmanship under normal and proper use and operation within Australia. Accordingly, the Ford Vehicle Warranty will not apply if the failure of the Part in the Vehicle to which your claim relates is caused by or is attributable to:
• misuse of such Part or of the Vehicle;
• failure to properly maintain and care for the Vehicle;
• failure to have the Vehicle properly, regularly and punctually serviced in accordance with the instructions and recommendations specified for the Vehicle by Ford; or
• exceeding the operating or capacity limitations specified for the Vehicle by Ford in the use and operation of the Vehicle.

In this regard, overloading the Vehicle, using it on obviously unsuitable terrain or surfaces are instances, but not the only instances, of abnormal or improper use or operation which could cause or result in the failure of a Part and lead to a rejection of a claim in connection with such Part under the Ford Vehicle Warranty.

A claim under the Ford Vehicle Warranty will also be rejected if a Modification (other than a Modification made by, or at the direction of, Ford) is made to the Vehicle by, or for you and such Modification adversely affects the Performance / Compliance of the Part in respect of which such claim is made.
In this regard the use of a part, component, assembly, equipment or accessory not supplied or approved by Ford will be regarded as a Modification and may lead to the rejection of a claim under the Ford Vehicle Warranty if the use of such part, component, assembly, equipment or accessory adversely affects the Performance / Compliance of a Part in respect of which a claim is made under the Ford Vehicle Warranty.

Better go take the Chrismas tree off my rear view mirror to keep my warranty
Ford warranty is clearly worth $0 then........

[PaulXR50]

Correct me if wrong i think Ford don't cover anything under warranty if launch conrol used on the xr8 manuals either.

Insurance co. don't cover damage as a result of racing etc either, so Ford would be correct in not covering it, unfortunately.

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by NX74205

It's still 'misuse', whether at the drag strip or on a public road. If there's evidence of misuse, good luck trying to claim anything on warranty.

Yes- you raise an interesting point.

Ford excludes "misuse". Not sure if there is a definition section in policy specifically defining misuse, but that term most likely will be read in the totality of the whole warranty and the operation booklet and the specs of the car.

They talk about instances of improper use including overloading, using a vehicle on unsuitable terrain/surfaces- being instances of misuse.

Similarly, The Ford Vehicle Warranty will not apply unless the Part which is alleged to be defective is found by Ford to be defective in factory materials or workmanship under normal and proper use and operation within Australia

Normal and proper use. What is that in terms of a performance vehicle, I would suggest that normal use of an XR8 would be to occasionally rev the engine to its limiter. However, if you are found abusing the law on a public road - ie spinning tyres and exceeding speed limits and sliding, arguably will not be normal use and proper use. (Well may be to a rev head- but not a Judge).

Using a car on a drag will likely be argued as not being normal use, proper use, and additionally used on unsuitable surface (stickier traction)- and all this putting aside the motor sport exclusion.

What this means my friends, is one should be aware drags, race track means you have no Ford Warranty.

Further, if one takes ones FGX XR8 out for a ride on the public road, and if testing its performance parameters - do so within the law, and by all means rev and use the vehicle as designed by its mechanical parameters as allowed by the factory tune. If it fails, the warranty is will likely apply.

So- no motor sport drags, racing, racetracks, no wheelspinning, sliding, or using the vehicle against the law on a public road.

What all this leaves us is driving the car in the law on a public road-and revving out the engine up to speed limit. Additionally, if driving on a closed road, means being able to drive the car using its revs, and normal use and proper use in that context as well as the sporting nature of the XR8 may even be extended to a bit of sliding and spirited driving.....but really who knows- this will be an interpretation open to argument.....

What an absolute cluster*#ck.

Ironically, I note that if I put on an intercooler, no tune, and the super fails, etc assuming the super has not leaked/somehow caused the super to fail, I will hold Ford to account because an intercooler will not likely have adversely affected the Performance / Compliance of a Part in respect of which the claim is made.

If anything an intercooler with no tune or other mods will likely positively improve performance by lowering AIT.

[SensationFG8]

Paul, that sounds a bit odd, they cant put a feature on a car then say "if you use it we wont warrant the vehicle"... The launch control is supposed to protect the driveline more than getting a perfect 100% traction launch, hence why it's slower.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

Paul, that sounds a bit odd, they cant put a feature on a car then say "if you use it we wont warrant the vehicle"...

That's exactly what Nissan were doing with R35 GTRs until they were taken to court- use launch control, warranty void. Although (despite this thread) I doubt Ford have it in them to pull something similar.

[GTP534]

Originally Posted by asagaai

Ironically, I note that if I put on an intercooler, no tune, and the super fails, etc assuming the super has not leaked/somehow caused the super to fail, I will hold Ford to account because an intercooler will not likely have adversely affected the Performance / Compliance of a Part in respect of which the claim is made.

Maybe, but the part wasn't fitted or approved or directed by Ford and will be deemed a modification which they say "may" lead to rejection of a claim.

That at least still gives them some discretion.

[2242100]

Originally Posted by kempy311

I'm more disappointed that ford didn't even look into it.

Something I haven't seen mentioned yet is that NT has removed the speed limit of a section of road.
So in that hot climate on that road, if an XR8 owner stops for some reason and then accelerates on full throttle to say 200 km/h (legal if safe) and drives at high speed for some time, I'm suspecting that might be quite a bit harder on the blower than dragstrip 1/4 mile runs.
So I'm wondering what Ford would say about that. Could that possibly cause a problem for the owner if a supercharger warranty claim was put in?
If so have any warnings been given to owners at contract signing time about legal high speed driving within the Northern territory.

[kazawaki]

All this supercharger talk has me wondering,the charger on my pursuit is considerably louder than it was in the first few thousand ks,even on just idling along say 2-3,000 rpms.Should I have this checked by an independent mechanic and if there is a problem then approach ford with independent opinion in hand just so I avoid the yes they all do this rubbish.I am not saying there is a problem but I am a little paranoid about it now.And no it hasn't been to the drag strip.

[EDManual]

how much is it to fix a supercharger anyway?!

[aussiblue]

I still think the Ford warranty clause that voids all claims is Page 16 Clause 2 of Ford's warranty terms and conditions

Where this warranty will not apply

It being used or has been used or tested in preparation for, or participation in, any form of motorsport.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by 2242100

Something I haven't seen mentioned yet is that NT has removed the speed limit of a section of road.
So in that hot climate on that road, if an XR8 owner stops for some reason and then accelerates on full throttle to say 200 km/h (legal if safe) and drives at high speed for some time, I'm suspecting that might be quite a bit harder on the blower than dragstrip 1/4 mile runs.
So I'm wondering what Ford would say about that. Could that possibly cause a problem for the owner if a supercharger warranty claim was put in?
If so have any warnings been given to owners at contract signing time about legal high speed driving within the Northern territory.

This man raises a very good point.

Kempy, what exactly failed on the supercharger?

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by joolz

So if you take a 4X4 out in the bush and something fails you are not covered by warranty.... Ford AU this is a performance car, the SC failed doing what you said it was made for...

If you're referring to the Ranger I wouldn't doubt it at all. Ford already deny any drive line vibration issues is not so uncommon in the PX Ranger.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by JG33

Some people need to read this carefully:

8. When will the Ford Vehicle Warranty not apply?

The Ford Vehicle Warranty will not apply unless the Part which is alleged to be defective is found by Ford to be defective in factory materials or workmanship under normal and proper use and operation within Australia. Accordingly, the Ford Vehicle Warranty will not apply if the failure of the Part in the Vehicle to which your claim relates is caused by or is attributable to:
• misuse of such Part or of the Vehicle;
• failure to properly maintain and care for the Vehicle;
• failure to have the Vehicle properly, regularly and punctually serviced in accordance with the instructions and recommendations specified for the Vehicle by Ford; or
• exceeding the operating or capacity limitations specified for the Vehicle by Ford in the use and operation of the Vehicle.

In this regard, overloading the Vehicle, using it on obviously unsuitable terrain or surfaces are instances, but not the only instances, of abnormal or improper use or operation which could cause or result in the failure of a Part and lead to a rejection of a claim in connection with such Part under the Ford Vehicle Warranty.

A claim under the Ford Vehicle Warranty will also be rejected if a Modification (other than a Modification made by, or at the direction of, Ford) is made to the Vehicle by, or for you and such Modification adversely affects the Performance / Compliance of the Part in respect of which such claim is made.
In this regard the use of a part, component, assembly, equipment or accessory not supplied or approved by Ford will be regarded as a Modification and may lead to the rejection of a claim under the Ford Vehicle Warranty if the use of such part, component, assembly, equipment or accessory adversely affects the Performance / Compliance of a Part in respect of which a claim is made under the Ford Vehicle Warranty.

Based on this information the OP has clearly not gone outside the scope of the warranty. Using the vehicle at the drags constitutes proper use i.e. used in a legal manner and has not exceeded the operating or capacity limitations of the vehicle.

What is Ford Australia's position regarding the use of a Ford vehicle in the Northern Territory's unrestricted speed zones? Porsche recently did 350km/h in their 918. Some punter with their foot flat to the floor in a FGX XR8 is not braking the law and availing themselves to the performance of their vehicle. I'd hazard a guess the pile of junk will need a tow truck back to the dealer before the 200 odd km section of highway was covered.

Ford Oz, you got it all wrong

[zilo]

Couple of thousand bucks should find a new blower....so no big deal really.

Probably just the bearings stuffed, 300 bucks worth of parts and away it runs for another 40 thousand k's.

[blackwasp]

Originally Posted by kempy311

Load of bull modern cars don't need bedding in. It also is very hard to find a set of rings in a supercharger.

you missed my point! but to be honest it was expected. also i do know there are no rings in the blower assembly ,thanks for pointing that out! you keep driving new cars the way you drive them and i will drive they way i drive them and we'll see who ends up in the workshop again crying about a mechanical problem again!

[blackwasp]

Originally Posted by EDManual

Draging cars from new is good for them :-)

I had my new v8 built, ran it in as meant :
20 minutes at 2000-2500 rev to bed in cam
Then 2 x Flat out 3rd gear to 2000-4500, then 2x 3rd gear 2000-5500, then 2 x 3rd gear 2000-6500! I noticed the difference in just these few minutes as the rings bed in!
This was with running in oil, then did about 30km, did about 4 quarter mile drags, then changed to new running in oil another 80km, then another 4 drags, another 50km changed oil to normal. Done.
Yep, and thats meant to stop any gasses blowing by the rings, as when you do it slowly you can get gaps. Thats what all the race cars and motorbikes do for best power and efficiency.
My brother worked at fords, all engines are run in already just like above on a stand dyno with huge torque being made. Theres no need to run them in or be nice to them at all. I dont get Fords problem, and a supercharger surely needs no running in?!!

this advice is so wrong it's not even funny! how can you compare drag strip engines with road car engines that are meant to last 300000km . unbelievable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mik]

Originally Posted by zilo

Couple of thousand bucks should find a new blower....so no big deal really.

Probably just the bearings stuffed, 300 bucks worth of parts and away it runs for another 40 thousand k's.

8000 k`s sounds a bit early for bearings, but if that was the case perhaps there would probably be other stuff needed for repairs as well one would imagine.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by joolz

So if you take a 4X4 out in the bush and something fails you are not covered by warranty.... Ford AU this is a performance car, the SC failed doing what you said it was made for...

From a legal perspective, it doesn't matter whether it's a 1.0 litre Fiesta or an XR8. The warranty terms and conditions are the same. The things that would void the warranty on a Fiesta will also void the warranty on an XR8. Also from a legal perspective, these are road cars designed to be driven normally on the road to get you from A to B. They're not designed as a track car.

As aussieblue has pointed out, Ford are not unique in this. Most manufacturers - including Porsche and Lotus - will void your new car warranty if the car has been used "competitively". Another example, Mercedes-Benz warranty does not cover:

"If you misuse your vehicle - including not driving it in accordance with the instructions in the owner's manual, driving at excessive speeds, engaging in competition or motor sports or exceeding the vehicle’s capacity in regards to use, application or load."

I fail to see what Ford has done wrong here.

[Express]

Originally Posted by blackwasp

........you keep driving new cars the way you drive them and i will drive they way i drive them and we'll see who ends up in the workshop again crying about a mechanical problem again!

If the price of playing is the occasional mechanical problem then bring it on.

What’s the point of a performance car if you don’t get to feel its exhilaration once in a while?

If you’re cautious take it easy for the first 2,000km maybe, to wait as you've said a minimum of 5,000 if not 10,000km seems excessive.

I’ve got a couple of cars that took me 5 years to reach that mileage.

I’m on kempy’s side and even more so as he’s taken it to the strip, the perfect and safest place to enjoy it.

I don’t own a new Ford to be able to check the run-in requirements but I did check those of a couple of my other cars.

My Holden says when running in the vehicle between the first 1,000 and 5,000km heavy acceleration in lower gears can be used. Vehicle speeds above 110km/h should be limited to five minutes per use.

If Kempy got the XR8 down the track in under 5 minutes then by Holden’s run-in requirements he should be fine.

My BMW run-in instructions say not to exceed 4,500rpm or 160km/h for the first 2,000km and after that engine and road speeds can be gradually increased.

My AMG run in instructions says not to rev the engine pass 4,500rpm for the first 1,000km and after that increase the engine and roads speeds then hold onto your valuables.

[Express]

Originally Posted by NX74205

From a legal perspective, it doesn't matter whether it's a 1.0 litre Fiesta or an XR8. The warranty terms and conditions are the same. The things that would void the warranty on a Fiesta will also void the warranty on an XR8. Also from a legal perspective, these are road cars designed to be driven normally on the road to get you from A to B. They're not designed as a track car.

As aussieblue has pointed out, Ford are not unique in this. Most manufacturers - including Porsche and Lotus - will void your new car warranty if the car has been used "competitively". Another example, Mercedes-Benz warranty does not cover:

"If you misuse your vehicle - including not driving it in accordance with the instructions in the owner's manual, driving at excessive speeds, engaging in competition or motor sports or exceeding the vehicle’s capacity in regards to use, application or load."

I fail to see what Ford has done wrong here.

The car companies get away with the grey area of what is abuse and forces it onto the majority of owners because it never gets to court.

They've tried it for years with the stupid must be serviced at a dealership sham.

Now I’ll admit I know nothing about the legal aspects of consumer law, I leave that to the experts but I do have a lot of experience in dealing with extreme customer dissatisfaction at a corporate level where company legal advice would always be to back off if the customer is not intimidated as the last place the company wants to find itself is in a court battle where a legal precedent could be set.

In other words negotiate your way out of it or give into the customer.

For example the last thing Ford would want is to have to give technical evidence to a court as to the difference between harsh acceleration on a public road versus harsh acceleration on a prepared private track and why one doesn’t damage components and the other does. To lose that would have consequences far beyond the cost of backing down and no company I’ve ever worked for has ever been prepared to risk that.

The repeated or sustained stress of some motorsports is a different matter but a couple of hard accelerations may possibly be accepted by a court to be within the working capabilities of the vehicle.

The good thing for most corporations is that very few people persist after the initial company denials and legal mumbo jumbo is thrown at them and those that do are quietly appeased and quietened with non-disclosure and no liability accepted clauses.

Also remember to fight is costly and in many cases the consumer can’t honestly justify that against the cost of the failed product.

I and I’m sure there are others on this forum have seen many things in companies that are quietly dealt with so as not to draw attention to a manufacturing problem.

If the fix is cheap I’d just walk away, if it was going to cost me thousands then I may seek a professional and if they believe I have a case then I would have them approach the issue from a legal perspective and see if it stirs up any positive action.





In regard to your Mercedes-Benz example, my AMG warranty doesn’t make any reference to driving at excessive speeds.

It says:

it doesn’t cover normal wear and tear resulting from regular usage, nor does it cover defects arising out of misuse, neglect or use of the vehicle in competitive motorsports, and shall not apply to goods which have been altered outside the Company’s works, or to vehicles which have been let out for hire, or to any parts on which the identification number or marks have been defaced.

[timeout]

take it to court.... remember the warranty (risk management / sales tool)is for them to cover defects over a fixed period for the least amount of cost.

now lets see how many others drop before rhe 3/5 year warranty is up.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by zilo

Couple of thousand bucks should find a new blower....so no big deal really.

Probably just the bearings stuffed, 300 bucks worth of parts and away it runs for another 40 thousand k's.

Its an auto
So he may see a ZF milkshake as well soon. May not make it to 20,000.
I guess we all know the answer to that warranty claim as well.

[CQB-241]

I concur with several here that dragging a 2000km old car constitutes abuse. I won't be belting mine in that way at that time of its life.

Regardless of that, Ford has realistically delivered the FGX XR8 as an appeal to the enthusiasts in the transition from manufacturer to importer in Australia. In doing that there has been extensive effort expended on promoting the car's performance credentials to the enthusiast market on what is essentially a dead man walking nameplate. Ford Fanatics (day and video), covering the homologation costs when leaving V8 SC and provision of a fairly sizeable fleet to motoring journalists to thrash are all examples of this. The enthusiasts have responded by trying to buy cars in spite of the issues many have had I the past (and now) with the dealership experience from many outlets. I ended up lucky, but only because I didn't put up with being dicked around and zeroed in on a good dealership team early.

In this circumstance the written warranty conditions are pretty clear. It will be an uphill arguement to overcome resistance when the dealer is unsupportive. In saying that, what is that resistance worth? These sorts of issues have all the makings of the recent Jeep saga and its resultant fallout with informed consumers. There needs to be an inspection of the part to see if it was fit for purpose....a few episodes of abuse would still not be expected to cause a blower to run its bearings in 8000km and it sounds like there had been no check if there was a manufacturing issue.

Given the dealer in question with regards the noisy supercharger car trades on their performance credentials, including sponsorships and even a stint on the motorsport venue board by the principal AND Ford have clearly pushed the car's performance message, there should be persistence in asking for the supercharger to be inspected for fault and if dealer resistance continues this request should be made direct to Ford without concealing what was done with the car. I think the response will be positive as the repercussions are not worth it for the minimal cost of sorting it to them. I would say tough luck if it was a driveline issue (even though it reasonably should be engineered to cop what standard tune can deliver) but it is not and at least deserves a fair look, just like a fault with Sync, paint, power windows, trim (etc) would.

It will be interesting to see where this goes. I had already made my decision re the bulk of the dealerships in your locality which is why I got mine from one with no official performance history. It would be disappointing if the manufacturer supports the use of weasel words in the contract and its extensions to escape liability from manufacturing-related faults.

As for those who believe thrashing a new car is good for it, just remember if you break it doing so the warranty says you fix it. I for one however agree with challenging refusal to cover parts (and the associated labour to inspect/rectify) that should not be excessively stressed by what is otherwise excessive use.

[kempy311]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

This man raises a very good point.

Kempy, what exactly failed on the supercharger?

If I knew I would let you know. But all that's has happened so far I'm pretty sure is the belt as been taken off and started and they have found there is no noise.