The importance of brand value: example Toyota 86 v Subaru BRZ

[Syndrome]

A car that was jointly developed by both companies, are almost identical except for minor details, both models are solely built by Subaru and are similarly priced.

So why is the Subaru BRZ outsold by the Toyota 86 by a wide margin? Answer: in Australia the masses hold the Toyota brand in much higher regard than Subaru brand.

Anybody at Ford listening?

[Adamz Ghia]

Subaru never expected to sell anywhere near what Toyota sells with this model. From memory when they first went on sale the BRZ was harder to get than the 86, even considering their online only strategy.

[turbo4]

I think there is an agreement in place that only allows Subaru to sell a small amount of BRZs compared to 86 sales.
Toyota allegedly has 90% of production volume but, from article I have read, neither company would confirm exact figures.

For what it's worth, I'd buy the BRZ because I don't like Toyota.

[Mr Brooksy]

Originally Posted by turbo4

I think there is an agreement in place that only allows Subaru to sell a small amount of BRZs compared to 86 sales.

For what it's worth, I'd buy the BRZ because I don't like Toyota.

I remember reading somewhere that in Australia at least the BRZ was only allowed to sell a small amount. In other countries it's the opposite.

[FPV GTHO]

The Toyota will outsell the Subaru not only globally, but in every country on s sale. Toyota put up the money to develop it, do they made an agreement to have more units made in their name.

[Bossxr8]

BRZ is a bit more expensive too.

[MITCHAY]

There are two models of the 86 and I think the BRZ is intended to come between them in price and equipment.

[malazn mafia]

Old news. I am sure that more people bought Holden Commodores than Toyota Lexcens, Camries than Apollos, corollas than novas, XF Utes than Nissan NXF Utes, Nissan Patrols than Ford Mavericks

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Old news. I am sure that more people bought Holden Commodores than Toyota Lexcens, Camries than Apollos, corollas than novas, XF Utes than Nissan NXF Utes, Nissan Patrols than Ford Mavericks

You are off the mark.

All of the cars you listed above sold in greater numbers when wearing the badge of the manufacturer. I highlighted the original models red for you and it can be seen the clones were not as popular. Furthermore these joint ventures were forced on the car companies as part of the failed Button Plan.

In the original example I supplied it is the other way around. Subaru builds all of them but more Toyota badged versions are being sold. Neither of the Japanese brands were forced to do this shared program.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

You are off the mark.

All of the cars you listed above sold in greater numbers when wearing the badge of the manufacturer. I highlighted the original models red for you and it can be seen the clones were not as popular. Furthermore these joint ventures were forced on the car companies as part of the failed Button Plan.

In the original example I supplied it is the other way around. Subaru builds all of them but more Toyota badged versions are being sold. Neither of the Japanese brands were forced to do this shared program.

Has more Toyota DNA in it then Subaru. Firstly underpowered, has styling cues of an LF-A, and doesn't sport AWD. Not exactly the type of a car a Subaru purist would buy..

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Has more Toyota DNA in it then Subaru. Firstly underpowered, has styling cues of an LF-A, and doesn't sport AWD. Not exactly the type of a car a Subaru purist would buy..

Tell me one Toyota model which has a boxer engine other than the 86? That is pure Subaru DNA.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Tell me one Toyota model which has a boxer engine other than the 86? That is pure Subaru DNA.

Engine is only one small part of the equation. Toyota has built many many more rwd 'sports' cars than Subaru has.

Personally I don't see why Toyota need Subaru. Toyota made some bloody awesome small fwd cars with the bzr levins, and trueno siblings. They just need to rwd that basic plan and it would be an awesome car.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Tell me one Toyota model which has a boxer engine other than the 86? That is pure Subaru DNA.

the word i hear on the grapevine is that toyota has had some input into the boxer engines bits, so maybe its not 100 % boxer , but dont quote me on that ..

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Has more Toyota DNA in it then Subaru. Firstly underpowered, has styling cues of an LF-A, and doesn't sport AWD. Not exactly the type of a car a Subaru purist would buy..

It's a modified Impreza platform, with a modified Impreza engine. It's more Subaru than Toyota.

Just the front diff was removed to make it RWD.

[Dave R]

Not really a fair comparison. In addition to having different entry prices, Toyota also has a much larger dealership network than Subaru. They were always going to move more.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Not really a fair comparison. In addition to having different entry prices, Toyota also has a much larger dealership network than Subaru. They were always going to move more.

Good point. Lots of two horse towns have Toyota dealers or authorised repair shops, but Subaru?

Also The point that it isn't AWD and Subaru has built it's whole marketing point for the last ten years plus on being "Symmetrical AWD" and how much safer it was than RWD or FWD, and then they have suddenly have something for sale that's just rear wheel drive...

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Toybaru has 12.5:1 compression at a start, then 86mm square bore/stroke but I'm unsure what a normal Subaru has

I think the motor in the XV was a whole new engine...deliberately built not to be too powerful (what?) and understressed. We looked at one when they were released and you could notice the lack of oomph, especially with the CVT transmission.
I think the "normal" 2.0 engine is the older style more powerful one.

[Stefan]

I'd buy the Subbie over the Toyota.

But hate to admit it my gf had a 98 SX Celica and damn that was fun car to drive, comfy, reliable and dam quick for a na 2.2. Really well geared for spirited driving. I dislike Toyota but that was a great car.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I think the motor in the XV was a whole new engine...deliberately built not to be too powerful (what?) and understressed. We looked at one when they were released and you could notice the lack of oomph, especially with the CVT transmission.
I think the "normal" 2.0 engine is the older style more powerful one.

Ours is the cvt and is definitly not fast lol. Great daily but.

When we were at the subie dealers they had a brz and wax beside each other in that limited edition pale blue, brz looked friggn awesome next to the wrx.

Just seems so obvious... Pull the motor out of the awd sedan, and drop it into the 2 door coupe. What an absolute cracker of a car that would be then.

[P6LTD351]

It can be spun any way that people like. Toyota is seen as the better brand or the "Commodore" to Subaru's "Lexcen" (BRZ).

Volumes yada yada. If I wanted a BRZ, I would wait until one came in. Fact is, more people want the 86. We're not talking about a pair of shoes here.

The OP is right.

[FPV GTHO]

Again it's nothing about brands, Subaru is limited by Toyota on how many they can build and sell.

[csv8]

http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles...stake-pays-off
Toyota own 17% of Subaru

[mik]

Originally Posted by csv8

http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles...stake-pays-off
Toyota own 17% of Subaru

Nice find.

[mik]

it was probably a project of convenience, Toyota wanted to build a very good handling sports car and use a power unit with a low centre of gravity,
Subaru had the boxer engine and certainly wouldn't mind getting some more brand publicity and sales from the joint effort as well .

[creative]

The 86 is also stamped everywhere with the Subaru logo... except the badge on the bonnet. I laughed the first time I had a look at one.

[Marquis]

I had a read of a mag article when these cars come out. They said Suburu were only allowed to sell one in 10 of volume sold. Can't remember the reason though. Def nothing to do with brand recognition

[MAGPIE]

A better example would have been Falcon vs Commodore

[nstg8a]

I wonder what the difference is between 2.0 subie motors. Brz/86 has roughly 140 kW, our subie xv, which is a n/a 2.0 is only 110kw.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

I wonder what the difference is between 2.0 subie motors. Brz/86 has roughly 140 kW, our subie xv, which is a n/a 2.0 is only 110kw.

Toybaru has 12.5:1 compression at a start, then 86mm square bore/stroke but I'm unsure what a normal Subaru has

[Express]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

So why is the Subaru BRZ outsold by the Toyota 86 by a wide margin?

It's got me buggered, I wouldn't buy either.

[MITCHAY]

The BRZ would be a hard sell to anyone that has owned a WRX except on a price.

The WRX is a more functional car, has more power and 9/10 times will probably handle the same at least with the AWD. The BRZ/86 platform has great potential if you're willing to mod it.

That is really where brand value is in Toyota because the 86 is literally the only sporty car they have at the moment so if they only want a Toyota, the 86 is an easy sell.