FG Falcon MKII

[4.0i OHC]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Interesting that so many journalists just assume that the RWD Falcon is dead and buried,
they are talking about a future global platform because that will save Ford money, I doubt it
because one of the greatest hallmarks of the own design Falcon is its ability to undercut costs
of international platforms like
- Fusion (FG Falcon)
- Taurus (AU falcon)
- Taurus (EA Falcon) (and stillborn Capricorn project)
- Granada (XD Falcon)
- US Maverick (XA Falcon)

I rest my case.....

Excellent post. The Falcon has been dead since 1979. Apparently.

I have one question. In my opinion, one of the greates blunders that Ford Australia made in the last decade was to drop the optional Aussie-designed AU IRS for the global Control Blade IRS (and then make it standard on the sedan range so that there is no escape from it). Was there a significant cost saving involved?

[4.0i OHC]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

You just need to remember to mention the Commodore and how much better you think it is in every article about Falcon, and you'll be writing for drive in no time.

The journos at drive can bring the Commodore into any Falcon article with the slightest possible segue. They will say something like "the Falcon has 4 wheels, and its largest competitor, which outsells it and is sending the Falcon to the graveyard, also has 4 wheels".

Then find a way to mention Falcon sales are declining and its just a matter of time before they stop manufacturing in Oz.

What are they going to go on about now that the Falcon (in FG Series II guise) has standard curtain airbags across the range?

I bet Josh is crying in bed about this.

[csv8]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Look at the sales volumes....

I agree, but Ford need something to get the punters back...looking...

[csv8]

Originally Posted by csv8

I agree, but Ford need something to get the punters back...looking...

\
On tv in America..I see an average of 3 Ford ads an hour..mainly the F truck..
Ford Australia must have a low advertising budget??

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by 4.0i OHC

What are they going to go on about now that the Falcon (in FG Series II guise) has standard curtain airbags across the range?

I bet Josh is crying in bed about this.

Oh, don't worry, they will find something else to whinge and nitpick about.

And yes, the CB IRS was cheaper to make than the AU IRS and allowed for greater harmonisation with modular manufacturing processes. Maybe not significant per unit, but over thousands of vehicles the saving adds up.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

And yes, the CB IRS was cheaper to make than the AU IRS and allowed for greater harmonisation with modular manufacturing processes. Maybe not significant per unit, but over thousands of vehicles the saving adds up.

Another justification was that the CB IRS is 20kg lighter in weight than the AU IRS.

Unfortunately the AU IRS was superior and without the potential bush problems.

[outback_ute]

The weight saving is indicative of big cost savings. I don't believe there is an issue with the CB IRS itself, just (!) the diff mounting which is a separate issue. The AU IRS was basically the an adaption of the Mustang Cobra wasn't it?

[FalconXV]

Is it superior just for roadholding or also for refinement? Does anyone know exactly why it's superior? I hope they revise CB to incorporate the best aspects of the AU setup. Seems the AU steered better than subsequent models aswell.

[AMGC63]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Another justification was that the CB IRS is 20kg lighter in weight than the AU IRS.

Unfortunately the AU IRS was superior and without the potential bush problems.

You don't remember the shock mount issues with the AU rear? its not without issues either..

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

Is it superior just for roadholding or also for refinement? Does anyone know exactly why it's superior? I hope they revise CB to incorporate the best aspects of the AU setup. Seems the AU steered better than subsequent models aswell.

The beauty of CB IRS is that ride quality can be tuned independently of road holding,
not many multi link IRS systems can do that and it's the reason what Falcon's IRS is so good.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by outback_ute

The weight saving is indicative of big cost savings. I don't believe there is an issue with the CB IRS itself, just (!) the diff mounting which is a separate issue. The AU IRS was basically the an adaption of the Mustang Cobra wasn't it?

Is there a fix for the diff mounting to stop it from chewing bushes?

[drew`SEVNT5]

Originally Posted by 4.0i OHC

What are they going to go on about now that the Falcon (in FG Series II guise) has standard curtain airbags across the range?

I bet Josh is crying in bed about this.

S******se sales figures should do nicely.

[jpd80]

Think about this, last month Falcon sold around 1625, Territory 1665 and Ute was 593.

Now even without considering the increase in sales that that EcoLPI will bring,

the average transaction price for the three mosels is probably around:
1) Falcon - $35K to $40 K -most are fleet special XR6s with a few G6, G6E, G6ET and XR6T
2) Territory - $45 to $50K - around 75-80% sales are diesels
3) Ute - $30 to $35K - most are fleet specials with a few XR6 and XR6 Ts

That puts the average price of all Falcon products at roughly, $38K to $42K per vehicle.
I'm no accountant but that looks like a fairly lucrative venture.....

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Think about this, last month Falcon sold around 1625, Territory 1665 and Ute was 593.

Now even without considering the increase in sales that that EcoLPI will bring,

the average transaction price for the three mosels is probably around:
1) Falcon - $35K to $40 K -most are fleet special XR6s with a few G6, G6E, G6ET and XR6T
2) Territory - $45 to $50K - around 75-80% sales are diesels
3) Ute - $30 to $35K - most are fleet specials with a few XR6 and XR6 Ts

That puts the average price of all Falcon products at roughly, $38K to $42K per vehicle.
I'm no accountant but that looks like a fairly lucrative venture.....

Keep in mind that Ford have a very lean labour force too, would be interesting as to how profitable/unprofitable they are at this rate.

[prydey]

no no no, you have it all wrong. how can they be making money when commodore sells so many cars. how can they be making money if they aren't no.1 in sales. how can i win the arguments in the schoolyard if they aren't no.1!! or selling 15000/mnth.

[AMGC63]

It doesnt matter how many cars you sell if you lose money on each one.

Being profitable is more important than selling the most cars.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by prydey

how can they be making money if they aren't no.1 in sales.

They're No 2 actually. Mazda 3 is selling more units and Toyoma sells more cars.

[prydey]

i should use the emoticons more often.

[Gobes32]

Sarcasm is hard to detect sometimes..........

[FalconXV]

Look what this guy is claiming.
http://www.caradvice.com.au/138129/f...comment-314169

- ron says:
September 18, 2011 at 4:22 pm

What was also omitted here is that this car has a new set of headlights meaning that the short beams are PROJECTOR LIGHTS instead of REFLECTORS.

This gives a car a new look.

The new I6 4.0L is further tuned, however mechanically identical to the current FG I6.

It will make 212kW at 6000rpm and 425Nm of torque at 2500-3500rpm.

This is thanks to a brand new computer software that will manage the engine that is already in existence.

As we know the current model makes 205kW and 420Nm on premium 98 octane fuel.

With MkII it will make 212kW/425Nm as above on just 91 octanes. This proves the fact that this engine has a lot of untapped resources. Where on 98 according to two insiders it will push 225kW and close to 440Nm putting it in very potent category and with the new 7 speed French automatic it is claimed will do 6s 0-100km/h while the G6E and XR6 N/A will do 5.7s with a new 9 speed ZF from Germany a $12000 option. Final drivers are lower at 2.24:1 and not 2.73:1 as they used to be. They are all single spinners including the XR6 Turbo where its power remains at 270kW yet torque rises to 640Nm from 533Nm? how is this achieved? power static yet torque UP UP UP???????????

So in summary we can expect.

New projector lights on G6E and XR models.
212kW/425Nm from a standard N/A engine
270kW/640Nm from an XR6 Turbo engine (F6 however makes 350kW yet only 600Nm?????????????? but from 1100rpm to 6800rpm flat versus XR6 Turbo 640Nm from 1750 to 5750rpm)

new 7 speed frensh designed american made auto (same as the 5 speeder yet with 2 more cogs, one between 3rd and 4th and 4th and 5th , making the 7th 0.71 final drive at 2.24:1 final diff ration 100km/h speeds are expected at 1100rpm when clutch is locked in 7th gear.

You get a car that is essentially the same as the current model, but improved with bits and pieces that make it a lot prettier and smarter. What i do not understand why is the 9 speed ZF a $12000 option.
When i drove it , it felt like a 6 speed ZF that i have in my 5.4L BF 2005 Fairmont Ghia that now happily has reached only 290,000km and the last time i changed transmission oil was at 185,000km, still going.

So there ya go Folks
Ron

Vote +1 - ron says:
September 18, 2011 at 4:25 pm

and i have failed to note:

the I6 will get new set of coil on plugs, the front rotors will be borrowed from a previous BF XR8 MkII including calipers, new 17″ steels will be available for Utes to accommodate the new caliper size.

The car will not have DIRECT INJECTION. Everything is mechanically identical apart from ECU software and coil on plugs as far as engine is concerned.

An engineer told me that also the rear springs are 15% stiffer, the front ones are the same for the XT. This improves handling as early XT was a bit bouncy and like a boat or almost… like a boat.

cheers

- ron says:
September 18, 2011 at 4:25 pm

and i have failed to note:

the I6 will get new set of coil on plugs, the front rotors will be borrowed from a previous BF XR8 MkII including calipers, new 17″ steels will be available for Utes to accommodate the new caliper size.

The car will not have DIRECT INJECTION. Everything is mechanically identical apart from ECU software and coil on plugs as far as engine is concerned.

An engineer told me that also the rear springs are 15% stiffer, the front ones are the same for the XT. This improves handling as early XT was a bit bouncy and like a boat or almost… like a boat.

cheers

- ron says:
September 22, 2011 at 10:48 pm

correction everybody.

its an 8 speed mid range variant of a ZF gearbox, its torque capacity is 650Nm for all stock XTs, G6s, G6Es and turbos across the board.

the 7 speed is a French designed box, just as the 5 speeder, this one helps with mid range acceleration and increases economy as revs drop down when the torque converter utilises its clutch at the full lock up it will do 1050rpm at 100km/h at 100km/h with out a single shake or rattle.

that is according to the info.

the typo was indeed with the 9 speed ZF, the 11 speed ZF is coming in 2015, who needs that many gears anyway.

The new VF Commo will have a 7 speed with a 3.9L SIDI V6, 3924cc … i wonder why haven’t they made it a flat 4.0L V6?

CHEERS TO YA ALL enjoy, and the power figures wont remain the same, they will go up, engine will however mechanically stay the same and identical.

Potential MY13 upgrade or Troll?
In his defense, the details are pretty specific, diff ratios, engine cc etc.
But why would Ford omit things like this from their press release?
Looking at the Facts, Ford now has the 6R80, which I read was modeled on the ZF. Now it wouldn't make much sense to continue importing the ZF6HP26 if they can get 6R80 for cheaper. However, the contract with ZF might still be valid ( anyone shed light on this?) and so they want to maintain cache and upgrade perhaps?

Bearing in mind they didn't have to calibrate the BF , and kept the BMW 5 series settings, they could do the same with the 8 speed, which must be getting cheaper by now? Makes sense to me..
Or have I just wasted everybody's time?

[stang65]

Interesting ,Laughable, could it be possible? Who knows sometimes it sounds like crap and bang it hit yah. But I very much doubt it. Funny though.

[Polyal]

XR6T at 640NM....um no

[SteveJH]

I call Troll.

[Professor Farnsworth]

LOL troll central - probably one of the old e series guys. The art of trolling is to articulate and include recent comparisons and provide good detail. This is done pretty well.

[dylancox]

Did Ford really just use the BMW 5 series calibration in the ZF? Never heard of this.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Polyal

XR6T at 640NM....um no

that would be an easy target to hit imo, there is already someone on the forums with a 6t with way more than that iirc.

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by dylancox

Did Ford really just use the BMW 5 series calibration in the ZF? Never heard of this.

No idea, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was quite similar.

I doubt it would be exactly the same because the engines in the 5 series have different characteristics to the engines in the Falcon.

[Poidevin]

Considering the new skoda monte carlo rs is scoring a 7 speed auto why not the falcon? I'm not saying the above stuff from Ron is correct, just wondering about the possibility of a 7 speed falcon.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by dylancox

Did Ford really just use the BMW 5 series calibration in the ZF? Never heard of this.

Both my Utes give ungodly and almighty shunts in the rear end everytime we slow down, or slow to a crawl. I've been told this is the ZF. Our X5 3.0d had the same gearbox and never ever was anything but smooth and fantastic. Ford has clearly buggered something up in the implementation. Take it to a service and they act like they don't notice it. Pathetic.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by mik

that would be an easy target to hit imo, there is already someone on the forums with a 6t with way more than that iirc.

On a note of truth, Ford did build one Ecoboost V6 with 313 Kw (420 hp) and 625 nm (465 lb ft) on their own software
but there was no gearbox in the engineering group that could reliably maintain that torque in a heavy vehicle like F150
so the power was clipped to 270 KW and 565 nm and a modified supplier program used to meet delivery deadline.

Originally Posted by FalconXV

Potential MY13 upgrade or Troll?
In his defense, the details are pretty specific, diff ratios, engine cc etc.
But why would Ford omit things like this from their press release?
Looking at the Facts, Ford now has the 6R80, which I read was modeled on the ZF. Now it wouldn't make much sense to continue importing the ZF6HP26 if they can get 6R80 for cheaper. However, the contract with ZF might still be valid ( anyone shed light on this?) and so they want to maintain cache and upgrade perhaps?

Bearing in mind they didn't have to calibrate the BF , and kept the BMW 5 series settings, they could do the same with the 8 speed, which must be getting cheaper by now? Makes sense to me..
Or have I just wasted everybody's time?

IMO, I don't believe any of the power improvement claims made by the anonymous poster for FG II I-6.
The simple point is that most buyers are more interested in fuel economy than power as evidenced by
Diesel Territory, the soon to be released EcoLPI and next year's Ecoboost I-4 engines....

Ford is in the throws of deciding which way to go with the post 2015 Falcon, I seriously doubt there are any plans to
introduce 7/8/9--speed transmissions before that time, they are extremely expensive and only FPV could justify them.