Open Speed Limit Highway in NT???

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

That doesn't even warrant a comment, suffice to say, google accidents on the autobahn

I dug up the German road toll for 1998, that's the first result I found, and compared it to the Australian road toll in 1998.
I figured out the percentage killed based on the total population of the country, and the two percentages were very similar. I think the German percentage was slightly lower.

[fg_nitro]

Originally Posted by flappist

Then a simple question Trev.

Two cars, one a XY Falcon the other FG Falcon hit the same immovable tree, the XY at 100km/h the FG at 150km/h.

Which occupants have the best chance of surviving?

Change the speeds to 60 & 100, speed is not the only factor in road trauma and remember that travelling from one end of Victoria to the other is just a trip to the shops in NT, WA or western QLD.

Technology has come a long way.....

Flappist great point you raise, I have noticed a few roads I travel on where the limit was 100 now that has been scrubbed out and reduced to 70 or 80 without any change to the area.... (no housing or new side roads).

Yet when the limit was 100 the average car owned by someone using that road would have been a 1992/1993 Falcon or Commodore at best.

Yet we have ANCAP 5 cars on the roads now and speed limits reduce? Nonsense!

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by fg_nitro

Flappist great point you raise, I have noticed a few roads I travel on where the limit was 100 now that has been scrubbed out and reduced to 70 or 80 without any change to the area.... (no housing or new side roads).

Yet when the limit was 100 the average car owned by someone using that road would have been a 1992/1993 Falcon or Commodore at best.

Yet we have ANCAP 5 cars on the roads now and speed limits reduce? Nonsense!

Yeah, it seams cars are getting safer, roads are being built and maintained better, and speed limits are still dropping.

With better roads and cars, you would think the speed limits would slightly go up, or at the very least stay the same. But that seams to not be the case.

In the past few years I have seen many locals roads drop there speed limit, and only 1 raise it. Well the 80 zone was extended after major road improvements. About 500 metres of road was increased from 60 to 80.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Ben73

I dug up the German road toll for 1998, that's the first result I found, and compared it to the Australian road toll in 1998.
I figured out the percentage killed based on the total population of the country, and the two percentages were very similar. I think the German percentage was slightly lower.

a more relevant figure is fatalities per km driven.

[04redxr8]

I thought the topic was about an open (or derestricted) speed limit in the NT.

[Keepleft]

The return of (//) is CLP policy, and that is absolutely approriate.

Where AUS states had this allowance historically, only Labor governments saw to its removal. (NSW under Wran lost it back in July 1979 by replacing its prima facie 80km/h 'rural' limit, signaled by way of then (//) sign,- with a stupid 100km/h rural default maximum).

I had suggested to CLP (//) not as a 'rural default' as in past prasctice and currently a looney 110km/h in the NT, but rather applied on a per-length-of-road basis, in the manner of a speed-limit sign application/install.

Australia's left-wing academics (Monash) and road agency employees from each jurisdiction, and advocates like Scruby - responsible for AS1742.4, where the speed derestriction sign (//) was catalogued as sign "R4-2" in the 1999 version of that standard and earlier versions, removed ALL reference to it in the 2008 edition.

Removal from the national standard of the speed derestriction (//) sign is a quite deliberate attempt by them (academics and certain staffers + advocate Scruby) at preventing any elected government (by way of policy), or future progressive state transport agency;- from ever reintroducing speed derestriction.

There are many ways to reintroduce a speed derestriction allowance (or type of) in the NT (or other jurisdictions) that the bleeding hearts cannot fathom or 'kontrol':-)

Anyhow, I have suggested that when CLP does this, and it chooses to use the (//) sign again, which on a per-length-of-road application ceases when a speed limit is posted further up, that underneath the (//) symbol the words "DRIVE TO CONDITIONS" be included on the sign at border entry points, a la certain NSW signs of same!

Note: AS1742.4 - SPEED-LIMIT signs, regardless of numerals are catalogued 'R4-1'.

R4-12 is the END SPEED-LIMIT sign (eg; END 50), but this sign cannot be used to cease all speed limits, as by AS1742.4 its use falls back to a measurable 'rural default' speed-limit, AND its use is intended when you are entering a hazardous road in a rural area, this unique sign and 'meaning' design has no International law backing.

A speed derestriction can be applied, in theory, to any rural highway, but also to the freeway category.

[Keepleft]

http://www.facebook.com/ntnews

http://www.facebook.com/questions/10...598/?qa_ref=qd

Coverage and discussion at the NT News on FB.

Strong support for (//). Attachment is the sign example advoacted for NT border entry points. Its a NSW sign.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by sudszy

a more relevant figure is fatalities per km driven.

Topic has nothing to do with the German road toll keep it on topic

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by sudszy

a more relevant figure is fatalities per km driven.

Ok it's off topic but, Germany is a tiny country with alot more people then here. So they would probably have more congestion with a bigger chance of two cars coming together.
In NT there is not much to run into. Most the odd bit of wildlife.
If there was an open limit in NT that doesn't mean everyone has to do 160 all the time. People with common sense will only go as fast as they can based on thier car, time of day, etc.

[NFURY8 Ute]

We all want higher speed limits and to be able to go fast, but look at the state of our roads, i dont know what the rest of australia is like but nsw roads are crap, especialy the F3.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by NFURY8 Ute

We all want higher speed limits and to be able to go fast, but look at the state of our roads, i dont know what the rest of australia is like but nsw roads are crap, especialy the F3.

And this is another part of the problem.

Mention open limits and the antis immediately see school zones, congested urban link roads and poor quality damaged rural roads as if these are the only roads in Australia.

Further to this in the (//) system all cars MUST be going absolutely flat out because if the sign says 80 you must do 80, not 79, not 81.

I suspect the fear they have is that if people started to actually make decisions about their driving rather than just doing as they are told they may possibly start to want to make decisions about other things which will erode the govco "empires".

[dogfish]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

As a former VicSES road accident rescuer, I can tell you that when a car hits a pole/tree at 100km/h there is significant damage and injury, but when that same car hits that same pole/tree at much higher speeds there is significantly more damage and injury, I didn't think you needed to be Albert Einstein or Isaac Newton to work that out.

Mate when you have 20+ indigenous members of the community in the back of a troop carrier and it rolls you don't have to be Einstein to work out why the road toll jumps in leaps and bounds in the Territory.

People are currently struggling to come to grips with driving now given their level of ability and concentration.

How so not in the NT I felt I was more focused Driving at 170kmh down the Stuart Hwy rather than 130kmh. As the peripheral vision is reduced as you travel faster hence more concentration required. I know I am a better driver from having the benefit of No speed limits on HWY's as I know I can drive and Ride at high speed for distance driving and also overtaking at high speed to get pass Road Trains etc.

This is not an argument about speed limits, this is an argument about compliance with simple rules, this is about I want everything now, it is about I need to be somwhere NOW, oh so typical of the NOW generation.

The open speed limit was in the NT for as long as anyone can remember so what does this relate to people wanting to get places faster now?
People just want what they had back.
I have over taken police at high speeds especially between Adelaide River and Pine Creek and they didn't batter an eye lid the odd one or two looked to see if my Bike/Car complied with the roadworthy requirements and if they were capable of doing such speeds and due to having 12monthly vehicle inspections you don't see half as many people driving around on flogged out tyres Ridiculously lowered vehicles etc etc as you do in Vic and Qld.
I would Never Ever contemplate riding a Motorcycle whilst I live in QLD.

[NAK302]

some folks really need to think away from their cities. we're talking rural NT where there is NOTHING but fresh air for 100's of kilometers.

[NAK302]

Originally Posted by dogfish

The open speed limit was in the NT for as long as anyone can remember so what does this relate to people wanting to get places faster now?
People just want what they had back.
I have over taken police at high speeds especially between Adelaide River and Pine Creek and they didn't batter an eye lid the odd one or two looked to see if my Bike/Car complied with the roadworthy requirements and if they were capable of doing such speeds and due to having 12monthly vehicle inspections you don't see half as many people driving around on flogged out tyres Ridiculously lowered vehicles etc etc as you do in Vic and Qld.
I would Never Ever contemplate riding a Motorcycle whilst I live in QLD.

another sensible post

[fatcorty]

Originally Posted by NFURY8 Ute

We all want higher speed limits and to be able to go fast, but look at the state of our roads, i dont know what the rest of australia is like but nsw roads are crap, especialy the F3.

If a car or driver can't comfortably sit On 130 the whole distance of the f3 neither should be on the roads.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by GT-0733

some folks really need to think away from their cities. we're talking rural NT where there is NOTHING but fresh air for 100's of kilometers.

this seems to be a good point. i have never been to the northern territory, but if the towns are as far apart as some suggest, then to make the trip 50% or so longer does not seem that smart to me. the rules regarding speed obviously worked for a long time and while speed can be a factor in accidents, so can fatigue, lack of attention and many other things . . . . and fatigue especially but lack of attention are much more dangerous than outright speed

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by sudszy

a more relevant figure is fatalities per km driven.

I actually would love to see Deaths and Hospitalisations per person kilometre.

[Bunyip04]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

this seems to be a good point. i have never been to the northern territory, but if the towns are as far apart as some suggest, then to make the trip 50% or so longer does not seem that smart to me. the rules regarding speed obviously worked for a long time and while speed can be a factor in accidents, so can fatigue, lack of attention and many other things . . . . and fatigue especially but lack of attention are much more dangerous than outright speed

Spot on mate, fatigue is easily the biggest problem drivin up and down the Stuart hwy a 130km/h

Not only did the open limits help with eliminating some fatigue issues, it helped all the road houses along the way with business from car magazine's! I remember an article in Motor not long after the open speeds were eradicated, they spoke of how much they utilised the hwy, it would definitely boost them back up again..

[Keepleft]

CLP's media release on the subject.
http://www.countryliberals.org.au/in...8&mediaId=2748

Application will not be like before, (//) re-introduction will simply be reserved for NT's safest lengths of highway, whereas it applied to ALL of NT's rural out of town geography. The reintroduction is way it should be, in my view:-)

What I've been slaving away at all these years anyhow.

[Bunyip04]

Yeah i'd still be happy for it along the safest roads too.

[Spudz27]

My question is about fuel. If you had an open limit and you chose to do say 160km/h, is there a short enough distance between towns so you don't run out? or are Jerry cans the go? I know in the BF at 112 (where I set cruise) I get around 8l/100kms, but if I lift the speed to say 120, that l/100 increases considerably.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

I've never driven in the NT before. I'll actually be heading down to Katherine for about 4 days before heading back to Darwin.

That is a really nice drive... Not really anything like the Hiway once you get south of Katherine. More bends where you will be driving. You will love it. You will also see how many Territorians treat the current 130 will utter contempt. And for the most part the law enforcment peope dont care too much. Rule of thumb, young police will be more likely to book you. Older, been around the block police, aren't that bothered. I was riding on the Lasseter Hiway about 4 or 5 months ago. I was sitting in my happy zone enjoying the ride and did not notice that I was doing 130kph in a 110kph zone. I got radar zapped and pulled over. Cop said that I should slow down a bit, otherwise he would have to book me... No fine, no points. If I was in Victoria, the wife and kids would be visiting me in jail....

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by Spudz27

My question is about fuel. If you had an open limit and you chose to do say 160km/h, is there a short enough distance between towns so you don't run out? or are Jerry cans the go? I know in the BF at 112 (where I set cruise) I get around 8l/100kms, but if I lift the speed to say 120, that l/100 increases considerably.

In my BF XR8 I have never had problems fuel range wise. And I rarely travelled slower than 160kph....

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Spudz27

My question is about fuel. If you had an open limit and you chose to do say 160km/h, is there a short enough distance between towns so you don't run out? or are Jerry cans the go? I know in the BF at 112 (where I set cruise) I get around 8l/100kms, but if I lift the speed to say 120, that l/100 increases considerably.

Beyond Outbackjack's response; the answer is to drive to prevailing conditions, that includes the vehicle condition.

Slow-down if you can't afford to drive 'safely' at speed, or in order to preserve fuel.

See AANT membership, and affilliated AAA member orgs and call them if ya run out:-)

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Beyond Outbackjack's response; the answer is to drive to prevailing conditions, that includes the vehicle condition.

Slow-down if you can't afford to drive 'safely' at speed, or in order to preserve fuel.

See AANT membership, and affilliated AAA member orgs and call them if ya run out:-)

Also, take a long hard look at your cars tyres and pressures. Every rental I have ever driven they have beed all over the place. Another rulle of thumb. Run your tyres at one or two PSI lower if you are planning of long 130 drives. It also helps when it is summer to let a PSI or two out.

[hawker]

As someone who used to live in Darwin for 20 odd years, growing up there etc, I think it's important to note, that a lot of the statistics for death on the roads in the Territory carefully omit where people died. Many of the deaths are on suburban roads and usually with young kids in stolen cars, often running from the cops. I'm not saying people don't have accidents on the highway, or die on the highway, but if you read the NT News (ha ha, yeah, who would) for a month or two, you'd find most car deaths happen near Darwin or Alice Springs.

I personally don't mind if the speed limit comes back or not, I have no desire to go back to the top end, I hate the place, it's very dead-end. Very good for a holiday, but that's about it (just my personal opinion). But if anyone has ever actually driven the highway, you'll know how bloody boring it is, it's the same bloody scenery for hour on hour on hour. This is why, a lot of people die from crashing after fatigue. It's nothing to do with the 'now' generation, a lot of people don't want to stop at some of the sh#t holes along the highway. Most of the best places are well off the highway... We used to do our rest stops just off the highway, stay in the car, sleep, bang, straight back out there once the light was up!

3 people were killed by a fire truck only a week ago, it was only about 15 minutes from the CBD of Darwin...

[NAK302]

Originally Posted by hawker

As someone who used to live in Darwin for 20 odd years, growing up there etc, I think it's important to note, that a lot of the statistics for death on the roads in the Territory carefully omit where people died. Many of the deaths are on suburban roads and usually with young kids in stolen cars, often running from the cops. I'm not saying people don't have accidents on the highway, or die on the highway, but if you read the NT News (ha ha, yeah, who would) for a month or two, you'd find most car deaths happen near Darwin or Alice Springs.

I personally don't mind if the speed limit comes back or not, I have no desire to go back to the top end, I hate the place, it's very dead-end. Very good for a holiday, but that's about it (just my personal opinion). But if anyone has ever actually driven the highway, you'll know how bloody boring it is, it's the same bloody scenery for hour on hour on hour. This is why, a lot of people die from crashing after fatigue. It's nothing to do with the 'now' generation, a lot of people don't want to stop at some of the sh#t holes along the highway. Most of the best places are well off the highway... We used to do our rest stops just off the highway, stay in the car, sleep, bang, straight back out there once the light was up!

3 people were killed by a fire truck only a week ago, it was only about 15 minutes from the CBD of Darwin...

true that.
i remember a few people getting killed in rollovers on the Central Arnthem Hwy. at the time we knew it as the Gove track, which is an usealed road.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Beyond Outbackjack's response; the answer is to drive to prevailing conditions, that includes the vehicle condition.

Slow-down if you can't afford to drive 'safely' at speed, or in order to preserve fuel.

See AANT membership, and affilliated AAA member orgs and call them if ya run out:-)

Keepleft, have you heard anything further about the 120 or 130kmh limits being introduced to NSW? there was some talk a while back. Barrier Hwy between Broken Hill and Willcania or Cobar would be perfect (well, unrestricted would be better actually).

[2011G6E]

The best stats I saw was that in the 12 months following the introduction of the 130kph limit, the road toll went up by 50%. A police road safety guy said one possible explanation was that drivers, left to thier own devices, usually travel at a speed comfortable for them...for some people that could be 150, for others it could be 100 to 110. Suddenly though you say "Hey, it's "safe" to do 130kph...go for it", and drivers who probably wouldn't have driven that fact before suddenly tried it out and came to grief when they ran out of talent.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Ben73

I dug up the German road toll for 1998, that's the first result I found, and compared it to the Australian road toll in 1998.
I figured out the percentage killed based on the total population of the country, and the two percentages were very similar. I think the German percentage was slightly lower.

Now do a search about rescue and medical infrastructure in place along the autobahn and let us know what you find.