Dick Johnson...said

MO · 18-02-2005, 11:52 PM

Heard on ABC radio a few days ago ..Dick is a member of AMC( Australian Motoring Council, I think) and this council is pushing for the banning of smoking whilst driving,becuase it is a distraction from concentrating on driving and may lead to the road toll.As well as start bushfires...which I can prove is highly improbable...by tossing butts out.
Now before all you non smokers take up the cudgel and say yea...think about this extrapolation.... if smoking while driving is a distraction where does that leave you with eating, drinking(softies),talking and listening to the radio or the cd and talking to your passengers.
If they're successful in getting the non smoking thru the rest will follow.
What are your thoughts on this.

**Peuty** · 19-02-2005, 12:00 AM

Hmmm, I think it's a stupid idea. They (all the stupid organisations) are trying to ban everything. If everyone just used a bit of common sense while driving, surely that would be enough.

(I'm a non-smoker BTW)

XD 351 Ute · 19-02-2005, 12:01 AM

Quote:

As well as start bushfires...which I can prove is highly improbable...by tossing butts out.

I'd like to debate that issue.......
A number of fires in our local area have been started by these, especially on median strips.

Ed

MO · 19-02-2005, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XD 351 Ute

I'd like to debate that issue.......
A number of fires in our local area have been started by these, especially on median strips.

Ed

I can provide research by the CSIRO as well as my 37 yrs as a Firefighter.

Brute33 · 19-02-2005, 12:07 AM

Look out for the rock Dicky !!! He should have been concentrating more.

MO · 19-02-2005, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brute33

Look out for the rock Dicky !!! He should have been concentrating more.

Oh yea I can remember when they drove Bathurst,eating their lunch and smoking...a long time ago I know but i saw it!!

Brute33 · 19-02-2005, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peuty

If everyone just used a bit of common sense while driving, surely that would be enough.

(I'm a non-smoker BTW)

And if people didn't go around roundabouts the wrong way.
And if we had world peace , blah , blah , blah
Some people are/were born stupid , and this why such laws come into place.

paul7v7 · 19-02-2005, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XD 351 Ute

I'd like to debate that issue.......
A number of fires in our local area have been started by these, especially on median strips.

Ed

i agree, had a big grass fire a few years back in Narre Warren due to a cigarette being tossed out of a window.

MO · 19-02-2005, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul7v7

i agree, had a big grass fire a few years back in Narre Warren due to a cigarette being tossed out of a window.

Where's your proof????

**Captain Stubing** · 19-02-2005, 12:26 AM

I met Dick at his house, nice guy... but a bit misguided now? I've been a smoker for half my life, (now 18 days since I had one). Looking at how butts go out the window, mostly the slipstream pulls them towards the centre of the road... but that's not always the case, so throwing butts out the window is a bad thing! Throwing butts with bodies still attached is even worse!
On the concentration side, surely after learning to drive, getting your licence, driving after that... the act of driving becomes second nature. Smoking a cigarette is also second nature, not requiring any thought or concentration.
I suppose this is why some people don't indicate... because they're concentrating on their driving!???

SpoolMan · 19-02-2005, 12:28 AM

Wasn't there a state that wanted to ban smoking in there cars while kids were traveling in the car..

leonbray · 19-02-2005, 12:45 AM

they allready have a rule that says if you are eating or drinking while driving, and you are involved in an accident, you can be charged with careless driving

Kryton · 19-02-2005, 12:58 AM

i still have doubts that ciggy butts can actually cause a fire in most cases. i spent 3 weeks when i was a teenager putting this theory to the test in my own back yard. i couldnt make anything catch fire.....not even petrol or dry grass.
maybe you should ban dickheads from driving or old people that do 30kmh in a 60kmh zone.
ban what you want. at the end of the day it is MY body, it is MY car and i will damn well smoke where i please. the way it is now the 'thought police' are discriminating against us smokers by telling us we cant smoke here or there and now they dont even want us to smoke in our own cars.
if i was black would you say that 'you the black person' cant be here or cant be there?
this country needs to grow up and get a spine. i have rights too....keep discriminating against a minority and one day they will step up and reclaim their lawfull rights as has been done in the past by every minority that has been discriminated against.
this time though it will cost this country Billions.

MO · 19-02-2005, 01:11 AM

davway;unfortunately too many ppl are sucked in by the propaganda put out by the would be's if they could be's.
It's time ppl looked beyond their own noses and started to think for themselves,this is said with regard to everything that goes down in our society.......do not believe everything you hear or read....... question it...no matter what!!!!!!!

**Peuty** · 19-02-2005, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brute33

And if people didn't go around roundabouts the wrong way.
And if we had world peace , blah , blah , blah
Some people are/were born stupid , and this why such laws come into place.

Yes, that was the point I was trying to make. Don't make laws to compensate for the stupid people.

XD 351 Ute · 19-02-2005, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John McMaster

I can provide research by the CSIRO as well as my 37 yrs as a Firefighter.

Oh well. I suppose your 37 years experience just kills my 10 then doesn't it.
The CSIRO may have research, but it doesn't mean they're always right.
There is always an exception to the rule.

Our fireies in town have told me of the fires that they said were caused by cigarette butts, so that's good enough for me.
Yes, sometimes there has been no physical proof, but for some of the fires I've seen, there has been no other logical explanation.
(Perhaps the ciggy butts were burnt in the process? - Who knows?)

They may not be bushfires, but I have also seen rubbish bins catch alight from these things as well.

I'm quite sure that there's plenty of cow cockies around that would argue with you on this one.

Regardless of whether they start fires or not, the throwing out of cigarette butts is an irresponsible practice that creates yet another source of rubbish.

I didn't intend to create an issue out of this, rightly or wrongly I am expressing my opinion, as you have yours.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

Ed

MO · 19-02-2005, 09:03 AM

To be fair the research did say conditions had to be almost perfect for a butt to start a fire IE..FMC fuel moisture content...critical to ignition..if greater than 7% then no fire,other conditions include wind speed at the surface of the fuel,if less than 3.6kmh then no fire.
To sum up the research concluded that it was possible,but unless conditions were perfect,improbable.

But this is side tracking from my original start of thread that being that if the do gooders get their way you won't be able eat,drink talk or listen to radio etc...because it is a distraction from concentrating on driving.

**cs123** · 19-02-2005, 10:24 AM

IMO using a mobile would be the worst thing for losing attention, probably followed by a conversation with a passanger. Smoking a ciggie is pretty much an automatic thing (unless you drop it in your lap) and I can't see what the big deal is

wulos · 19-02-2005, 11:38 AM

In certain states of the US (as well as in Aus unlessI'm mistaken - I think ACT for one) have an offense known as 'Not showing due diligence whilst driving'
This offense covers things such as using a mobile phone, putting on makeup, reading a paper, eating, drinking, whilst driving. Tis enforced at the discretion of the officer - who thinks that the offender through lack of care could be creating a hazard to other road users. Tis similar to a Negligent driving offense, but negligent driving is supposed to only be enforced AFTER witnessing poor vehicle control, not possible causes of it.

shane3 · 19-02-2005, 12:15 PM

I think things are way off track here, The idea to ban smoking while driving is to stop people having accidents not starting bush fires, the fact that a lot of people when the smoke and drive only have 3 fingers on the steering wheel and the other hand on the gear nob, How many people have freaked out when ash has fallen on them or come back into their faces???

shane3 · 19-02-2005, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wulos

In certain states of the US (as well as in Aus unlessI'm mistaken - I think ACT for one) have an offense known as 'Not showing due diligence whilst driving'
This offense covers things such as using a mobile phone, putting on makeup, reading a paper, eating, drinking, whilst driving. Tis enforced at the discretion of the officer - who thinks that the offender through lack of care could be creating a hazard to other road users. Tis similar to a Negligent driving offense, but negligent driving is supposed to only be enforced AFTER witnessing poor vehicle control, not possible causes of it.

On Monday going down Toorak Rd, the lady behind me was talking on the phone (wedged between her ear and shoulder) and doing paper work resting on her steering wheel while driving at 60km/h

:

NAK302 · 19-02-2005, 12:28 PM

maybe car companies should start putting ash trays back in the cars. i smoke in my car, butts go in the ash tray. now i need to educate the wife, hmm, may as well talk to the fridge. to her ash trays in cars are for loose change.

Yum-Yum · 19-02-2005, 12:29 PM

Well over here, my cousin got a fine for $60, I think that was the amount. He was done for smoking while driving, no speeding, no irratic driving, no drunk driving...SMOKING while driving!!!
I reckon this is gonna turn out to be like the 'Smoking in Bars' law.

Quasi · 19-02-2005, 12:31 PM

Since I don't smoke in my car I couldn't care less, actually.

As for you being able to prove that throwing lit cigarette butts out the window of a moving vehicle does not cause bushfires....well, as an experience firefighter I don't see how you can possibly dispute it. Despite what you say about the CSIRO findings, it's already been shown time and again that this does happen.

Tell it the people who have lost their homes in a bushfire started by a burning butt on the side of the highway.

Yaw · 19-02-2005, 12:35 PM

I am an ex smoker...have been an ex smoker since april 2004.
Each and every day I still crave cigs...its not an easy thing to do.
I understand what you guys are saying about thought police etc.
There are a few facts we all need to get used to:
Smoking bans are comming like it or not.
Qld original legislation actually stated you could not smoke in your own private vehicle unless you were the sole occupant. It was for passive smoking reasons. The other one they stated was any buisness use car, because it was a place of work. This did get dumped from the original legeslation but it will come back again.
It is now as of January 1 2005 that you cannot smoke within 4 meters of a non residential building entrance. Pubs And Clubs will all be no smoking within the next 1-3 years depending apon state. This will include outdoor beer gardens. Now as the years go on, the logic will be you will only be allowed to smoke on private property and at that will probabnly have to be out doors if there is any other occupant of the house.
Tobbaco companies are going to keep getting sued and eventually they will pack up shop. (that is still a few years away but it will happen).
With health reasons being sited your thoughts on eating/drinking etc won't be considerations...THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.

NAK302 · 19-02-2005, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaw

I am an ex smoker...have been an ex smoker since april 2004.
Each and every day I still crave cigs...its not an easy thing to do.
I understand what you guys are saying about thought police etc.
There are a few facts we all need to get used to:
Smoking bans are comming like it or not.
Qld original legislation actually stated you could not smoke in your own private vehicle unless you were the sole occupant. It was for passive smoking reasons. The other one they stated was any buisness use car, because it was a place of work. This did get dumped from the original legeslation but it will come back again.
It is now as of January 1 2005 that you cannot smoke within 4 meters of a non residential building entrance. Pubs And Clubs will all be no smoking within the next 1-3 years depending apon state. This will include outdoor beer gardens. Now as the years go on, the logic will be you will only be allowed to smoke on private property and at that will probabnly have to be out doors if there is any other occupant of the house.
Tobbaco companies are going to keep getting sued and eventually they will pack up shop. (that is still a few years away but it will happen).
With health reasons being sited your thoughts on eating/drinking etc won't be considerations...THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.

fair enough. but when it comes how will the governments operate on the billions of dollars lost in tax revenue from cigerette sales?

Kryton · 19-02-2005, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nak351

fair enough. but when it comes how will the governments operate on the billions of dollars lost in tax revenue from cigerette sales?

oh that ones easy! you get the priviledge of paying more tax on petrol, rego, income tax, and other things like that.

NAK302 · 19-02-2005, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

oh that ones easy! you get the priviledge of paying more tax on petrol, rego, income tax, and other things like that.

funny, that's what i was thinking. so in a few years time there will be a thread here moaning about how much extra we have to pay for the above.

back on topic. throwing butts anywhere is just not on, regardless of the fire issue or not. i don't think driving with one in your hand is a big deal, just some more anti-smoking propaganda doing the rounds to try and get it noticed again. the health issues have been done to death (no pun intended) so it's another angle to be attacked.

T_Terror · 19-02-2005, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

oh that ones easy! you get the priviledge of paying more tax on petrol, rego, income tax, and other things like that.

Dont forget the "tax" from teh extra speed cameras they will set up as well

paul7v7 · 19-02-2005, 03:07 PM

I know I am near alone on this but I can't wait till smoking is banned in all places. The smell gets everywhere and everything stinks cause of it.

As for cars, i have seen many throw butts out and have dobbed them in. So as I said before I agree with DJ.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John McMaster

Where's your proof????

Mate I don't need the proof, I am not a fire fighter or a CSIRO scientist. I read about the fire in the local paper and the guy that made the claim was a firefighter (what do you know

_ ).
Can I ask this..Can you gurantee that every smoke butt thrown out of a window is properly extinghuished, that a breeze on dry grass won't help it a long? Did all your testing and experience prove that it is IMPOSSIBLE for a fire to start this way?