Why are Toyotas so reliable (and boring).

[aussiblue]

Nothing new but interesting nonetheless https://cavemancircus.com/2022/01/12...s-so-reliable/

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

Nothing new but interesting nonetheless https://cavemancircus.com/2022/01/12...s-so-reliable/

Have experienced their engineers/quality department, can confirm they don't fart around regardless of how insignificant something might be in the grand scheme.

Even with all OEMs, the difference between what the aftermarket will accept and what an OEM will are chalk and cheese, aftermarket are all cowboys in comparison.

Trying to get an OEM to make a change, you better have a bloody good reason to get it in front of their engineers, and once you do you gotta throw in the kitchen sink to get them to sign off on a design change.

[fordomatic]

Sometimes you need a boring car that is slow and underteched to use as a daily.

We've just hit 255k in our 2010 Outlander, all i've changed is the front brakes, rear shocks and a clock spring.

I've done all the servicing since 100k, I haven't even changed the CVT trans fluid since 130k. I've been waiting for it to die so I can throw it out, but it simply wont die. It costs me barely anything to run and service costs are oil and a filter every 10k. Last time I got tyres i got the shop to look it over, they found nothing wrong.

Boring and bland is good.

[Vesper Martini]

I bought an ST185 GT4 many years ago as it was the only one of the rally 4WD turbo cars around that didn't have a glass gearbox.

It was the first car I had owned that you could tell the quality was above par, they weren't cheap new

it did weight about 200kg more than the others though..

[b0son]

My dad's last 3 cars have been Toyota/Lexus. Only the Lexus is reliable. The Toyota's (Aurion, then RAV4) were problematic. The Aurion has a mysterious electricity 'leak', drains its battery within a couple of weeks of no use. Nobody can find the fault (Toyota or sparkie). The RAV4 had transmission oil leak Toyota couldnt successfully fix.

[Wretched]

The Toyota Way

[DJM83]

Reliable- Yes. My mum has a Rukus and its been bullet proof in the 12 years and 110k kms she has had it.
Wouldnt exactly call one of these boring


Not seen the Supra either?
I must be the only one the doesnt mind the looks of the current crop Toyotas.

[FTE217]

DJM83 I think the latest Sport and up spec model Rollas look great.

Jap are perfectionists be it bling or bland.
Fordo's right you need bland for they just tick the box's getting from A to B when maintained.
For all the people who have had one of those bad experience's there are countless countless more that don't.
Got the wife a CX5 - great run to date.

Mention of Lexus, can't deny how damn good they are.
The old man won't go back after countless Euros - again just ticks the box's, never a prob and the customer service is brilliant.

I still currently have a 2009 SR5 4x4 nearing 200k's passed onto my son.
Never thought I'd like it but I loved it, being a beachy taking it on dunes/tracks the fun is great.
Has never missed a beat - normal consumables and servicing.

They are smart cookies, the Germans I'm sure keep an eye on them.
Honda is another despite their range lacking today, they like Toy have shares in a good supplier range hence another reason why their product lasts.
Showa shocks/struts, even though associated with motor cycles/mono shocks etc many Hondas have Showa OE.
The product just lasts way longer than the usual suspects.
Then you have Tokico Shocks, another brilliant Jap OE brand supplier.
Both hardly care for Aftermarket, Jap OE is king despite the low margins to them.

So many behind the scenes Jap brand supplier links.

I don't think Toy company cares about the negatives some go on with.
Oh current DPF issues, LCruiser this issue, most owners love them and keep updating, the numbers are there.

[Crazy Dazz]

https://cavemancircus.com/2022/01/12...s-so-reliable/

What a badly-written piece.

Like most things, I suppose it is a combination of factors.

Part of it is that for Toyota "Quality & Reliability" is just "their thing" and I suspect it comes from an outgrowth of traditional Japanese Culture.
If you go back 60-70 years, Japanese cars were crap and mostly a joke. Toyota set out to change all that.
It certainly helped that for many decades they received massive help from their government and banks, but that simply help them along financially. It was Toyota that chose the focus.
Ultimately, all of the majors want market share, but the question is how they go about chasing it. Toyota's strategy was long-term, and simple. Make their cars cheaper but more reliable than the competition.

It sounds simplistic, but in many respects this reflects a fundamentally different paradigm. Rather than see service and repairs as just one more opportunity to fleece the customer (American style), Toyota actually strove to save their customers money.

Whether it was visionary, or simply happenstance, this also dovetailed with the massive growth in fleets, where reliability and maintenance costs are often a bigger factor than the upfront costs.

The appearance of conservatism is I think more to do with this focus.
Company A says "we want our car to be the fastest, and the best handling."
Company B says " we want our car to be the most economical, and the most comfortable"
Company C says "we want our car to be the cheapest to develop and build."
TOYOTA says "we want our car to be the most reliable"
When building cars for the mass market, it's a question of where do you spend your budget, and for decades Toyota spent theirs improving quality and reliability.

That's not to say that they spent no money in the other areas,it's always a balance, but for a long time those other factors took a back seat.

I think that FoA's Falcon engines were a great example.:
They were big enough that they never worried too much about extracting maximum power.
For a long time (far too long probably) fuel economy was only a secondary consideration.
But the biggest target seems to have been that Taxis be able to do half a million kms with minimal maintenance.

[jpd80]

Ironic isn’t it that Toyota now has the market share and return buyer volume that old old Holden used to have.
Some will tell you that Toyota, Hyundai and Kia took their market share from Ford and Holden but the truth is
GM and Ford have been throwing away return buyers for years because those are not the sales they want….

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by FTE217

.....LCruiser this issue, most owners love them and keep updating, the numbers are there.

Bought my first Landcruiser April 1980 and except for a six-month period in 98' I have owned one ever since....I have two at the moment

[simon varley]

I'm not so sure Toyotas really are any more reliable than other cars. The difference is that when you take an issue to a dealer it is generally resolved quickly and efficiently. Hence you don't get people shouting on line that their cars are crap

contrast to the Ford dealer experience....

[FTE217]

Toyota have a bucket load of return buyers for yonks….especially private from sources I know.
SV - putting aside dealership service I’ve been in the aftermarket for 30+ yrs.
Used to be on the road repping originally, met countless workshop owners in every State working nationally and still on the pulse.
Most would say otherwise in general.
Ive asked many over the years or heard their comments what they recommend for a daily to a customer when they ask about updating.
A lot say the Toy car especially corollas for surburbia.
Obviously lately Hyundai comes into play next followed by Mazda for joe public.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Franco Cozzo]

I feel Mazda have lost their way in the past 10 years, they used to make cars that were nice to drive, now the Mazda 3 and Mazda 6 are turds, we had a Mazda 6 company car and it's like they just focused on isolating the driver completely from the car, absolutely no steering feel, poorly programmed auto box etc.

I feel like they should just given me a PS4 controller and let me drive it from the back seat because the steering wheel was like holding onto a pool noodle except solid.

[98TLS]

Toyotas reputation for reliable and boring started decades ago thing is/was the people that bought them didnt give two hoots about boring and why would they,didnt want a supercar just wanted a reliable form of transport,worked at a Toyota dealership in the late 80s through to mid 90s,how many base model Corolla hatchbacks done 300k + still driving fine we traded ive long forgotten.

[98TLS]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Bought my first Landcruiser April 1980 and except for a six-month period in 98' I have owned one ever since....I have two at the moment

Tough as boots mate,hearing ya.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by b0son

My dad's last 3 cars have been Toyota/Lexus. Only the Lexus is reliable. The Toyota's (Aurion, then RAV4) were problematic. The Aurion has a mysterious electricity 'leak', drains its battery within a couple of weeks of no use. Nobody can find the fault (Toyota or sparkie). The RAV4 had transmission oil leak Toyota couldnt successfully fix.

Are these newly purchased vehicles or already been around the block?
as per Simons Post #12 Toyota dealers don't normally have the Reputation of unable to fix.
both issues should be easy to resolve

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

Are these newly purchased vehicles or already been around the block?

Bought new. The RAV had its issue mostly since new, the Aurion's developed after a couple of years. It's had more batteries than a vibrator.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by b0son

Bought new. The RAV had its issue mostly since new, the Aurion's developed after a couple of years. It's had more batteries than a vibrator.

Some may think its been used alot in that case
Wear and tear oh what a feeling Toy yo ta lol....

[thefargo]

I have a number of vehicles, 2 are toyotas - limited edition Hi Lux Black Edition and my preferred daily drive 80 series landcruiser. the old 80 series is basic; no turbo, big diesel 6 cylinder, just keeps on going. change filters often add fuel. the only major expense (lately) has been the cost of fuel.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by b0son

Bought new. The RAV had its issue mostly since new, the Aurion's developed after a couple of years. It's had more batteries than a vibrator.

for the RAV I would suggest another dealer or escalate to Toyota, no new car should have a leaky Transmission even the cheapest brands, certainly not the norm.

The Aurion must be minimum 4 years of age now, perhaps its they type of battery purchased rather than the car, if it was fine a couple of years ago.

look - many things can happen to cars as they get older. our old Prado needed a new battery a couple of times, My wife wanted a new car each time it caused her grief.

[rare ss]

Hired Toyotas can do amazing things.. ask any miner

[BENT_8]

Personally I believe the sentiment is a carry over from a bygone era when the competition was less reliable and Toyota we're in their golden age, somewhere around the late eighties through to 2000.
They cars they delivered in that time were relatively simple with focus on over engineering.
The 80 series cruiser for mine is probably the best version ever built and have stood the tests of time.
The Vienta with quad cam v6 was a very well built car and the Carolla speaks for itself.

Moving forward to now and there isnt really an unreliable vehicle that sticks out from any manufacturer, sure they have things that fail but as someone who has driven thousands of kilometers as part of my work life I cant pin point any particular car thats over represented for being roadside with the bonnet up.
Even the Craptiva and Cruze arent as obvious as we believe, they may be troublesome but they dont leave you stranded necessarily.

[jstanovic]

The 80s/early 90s was where Toyota cemented the reliability reputation. For example, the mid-80s Hilux had leaf springs all round, 3Y/4Y petrol motor that would barely keep it at 110kph but you could just throw it at anything and it would keep going. Load a tonne on the back at it kept going, just slower. Under stressed driveline to the max. Didn't have enough power to snap axles/gearboxes. Corollas were the same, boring and slow but just kept on going.

Even the 2.7L petrol in the late 90s, super duper reliable. Not a powerhouse or the most efficient but regular oil and filters kept it going forever.

Most competitors have caught up, whilst new Toyotas aren't perfect, dealers have a reputation of repairing genuine issues quickly and with least inconvenience to the customer. That's why customers keep coming back and often don't look at other brands.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by jstanovic

whilst new Toyotas aren't perfect, dealers have a reputation of repairing genuine issues quickly and with least inconvenience to the customer. That's why customers keep coming back and often don't look at other brands.

I've a a sneaking suspicion that Kia/Hyundai are using the same modus Operandi to get & keep customers.. !!!

[Tonz]

damb beat me to the same thought totally agree

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Personally I believe the sentiment is a carry over from a bygone era when the competition was less reliable and Toyota we're in their golden age, somewhere around the late eighties through to 2000.
They cars they delivered in that time were relatively simple with focus on over engineering.
The 80 series cruiser for mine is probably the best version ever built and have stood the tests of time.
The Vienta with quad cam v6 was a very well built car and the Carolla speaks for itself.

I tend to agree with that, those years where they had the edge in refinement and reliability over key rivals gained them a lot of repeat customers and a reputation that has stayed with them. During that period, Toyota also invested in getting dealers into every corner of the country, giving people readily accessed places to buy and then service a new car. This built trust and reassurance.

Specifically in terms of reliability, Toyota have a habit of sticking with platforms, powertrains and technology for extended periods of time. This means they are not making massive changes every few years, rather evolving and refining. There is nothing exciting about that choice, but that stability means what they build is well proven and reliable. Consider the Echo and the following two generation of Yaris, spanning almost 20 years on one platform and powertrain combinations.

Lastly, and don't mean to offend here, but for many who buy into the notion of Toyota reliability are less likely to shout loudly about a problem or fault with their vehicle for fear of being red faced.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

I tend to agree with that, those years where they had the edge in refinement and reliability over key rivals gained them a lot of repeat customers and a reputation that has stayed with them.

Lastly, and don't mean to offend here, but for many who buy into the notion of Toyota reliability are less likely to shout loudly about a problem or fault with their vehicle for fear of being red faced.

Looking back over my life, and all the different cars I looked at, considered, or even just dreamed of owning...
Then expanding that to friends and family...

The almost total absence of Toyotas is astounding.

The only Toyota I ever considered remotely attractive was the original TA Celica. Might even have bought one, if I'd be a decade older and a hairdresser.

Ultimately Toyota positioned itself perfectly to ride two massive waves:
The growth in fleet vehicles, and the surge in ownership of cars by people with no interest in cars.
Think about it. Imagine you know nothing about cars, have no desire to learn, and you just want something that will transport you comfortably and hopefully cause the least disruptions.
You'll either buy the cheapest shiniest POS available, or you'll listen to your mother and buy a Toyota.

Toyota also understood something that only a few companies seem to grasp. Its why production of the 747 lasted over 50 years, and the A380 only around 15.
That is the importance of the 2nd hand market.

I think that also coming in late to the market Toyota had to find a new take on Brand Loyalty. Nobody ever bought a Tojo because their Dad was a "Toyota Man" or because they formed an emotional bond with the Brand at a young age.
Instead they built their own (equally illogical) loyalty. The number of fekking arguments I've had to wage over the years, against moronic maintenance nongs who only wanted to buy Toyota...

[383hq]

By brand it has traditionally been Toyota, Porsche, Kia and Hyundai.
No real change in rankings for dependability on last years report by JD Powers, typically the benchmark in auto.
And overall, car quality and dependability just keeps improving

Dependability is as expected - consumer reviews of 3 year old cars


Then I nearly choked on my coffee
Dosge / RAM at top of the biblical JD Powers Initial quality studies for auto - Complete opposite to Chrysler at the bottom (expected)
Toyota in the middle.

Most issues nowadays are infotainment / smart phone connection issues...
Not like the old days at all

[Ben73]

The car with the highest Kms I have driven was a Prado. 555,000km and 5 years old. It had a lot of things fixed and replaced in it's short 5 year life, but it still drove really well.
Boring, slow, expensive and lacked modern features though.