Towing a boat with a BA or EF.

jlef5 · 23-10-2010, 01:09 AM

Currently I own a nissan patrol ute and I'm looking at selling it due to not going 4x4ing anymore and miss having something fun to drive. I plan to sell my ute for about 25 to 30 with the slide on camper. Buy a boat for about 10 and a car for about 10 to 15.

I owned an ef fairmont with 5ltr a few years back until it was written off ( not my fault rear ended while waiting for a park) and loved it, great car to drive. I've been looking and narrowed my options for a car down to an ef/el or ba falcon/fairmont. seriously considering the BA Fairmont with 5.4 v8.

I'm concerned about towing a boat with a sedan as I have always towed with a 4x4. How does the above cars go towing both manual and auto, 4ltr 6 and 5ltr/5.4ltr v8. Boat will weight about the tonne mark at most and will normally be towed about 60km to 150km to local dams for barra season and about 40km in winter to salt water ramp.

Cheers.

Crazy Dazz · 23-10-2010, 01:53 AM

I have towed a large boat (~2t) with an EB sedan and an EF wagon. Both great tow cars with plenty of power, although I certainly recommend fitting a transmission cooler.

However they got very wet when launching and retrieving, and lacked traction on many ramps. Sometimes I had to be hauled out by a 4wd. I changed to a GU patrol, and found it much better for launching and retrieval, and whilst heavier and slower it was equally competent as a tow car. In short, for launching and retrieving boats anywhere, you can’t beat 4wd.

jlef5 · 23-10-2010, 02:09 AM

I know for towing / launching 4x4 is best, but I've recently moved from where i had all highway driving to do to work about 15km one way from my house to work and 14 km been 100k/h zones and used to car pool to work so only drove 1 week out of 3 to mackay 3 months ago where I drive 18km to work everyday and it's all city driving and running the patrol is killing me as my everyday car.

Ive been stuck with my patrol and had to put her in 4x4 to get off a few mud/dirt ramp myself so thats one concern of mine but I will only be launching at concrete ramps and I'l probably look at an extension for the trailer pull to allow the car to stay high and dry.

I more worried about the cars ability to tow the boat, maintain speed and not doing damage to the car by towing.

Crazy Dazz · 23-10-2010, 03:05 AM

Change to a Diesel Patrol or fit LPG to reduce your running costs???

Even concrete ramps get wet/sandy/slimy. I sometimes had to get the family to sit in the boot to get traction.
GQ (yeah GQ not GU) was on LPG so running costs were ok.

But yes, Falcons make great tow cars, just fit the transmission cooler, and stay clear of the V8 if you’re worried about running costs.

tankclare · 23-10-2010, 03:17 AM

I use my lowered EF fairmont ghia 6 to tow cars around without a problem. Plenty of power to pull and no problem sitting on 100km/h. And for a lowered car it rides very well with a loaded car trailer so a boat shouldn't be a problem.

wrongwaynorris · 23-10-2010, 04:47 AM

My EF ( 4 litre six ) tows with consumate ease .

Pedro · 23-10-2010, 08:23 AM

A friend used his EL XR6 (when it was new) to tow an 18' boat and he experienced diff problems.

RAREV8 · 23-10-2010, 10:39 AM

I regularly tow a 1300kg rig with a double axle trailer with absolutely no issues. I've put the boat in some very steep and slippery places and the FG G6 does it all easily.

T3man · 23-10-2010, 11:35 AM

You will have no problem towing with either of the cars you mentioned.

However if I had the choice I would go with the BF 5.4L - great motor for what you want to do - heaps of low down grunt - better than the BOSS motors and more economical too.

And, if at some time you decide to go dual fuel the 5.4 will respond well enough to the LPG. Just get a donut tank to go in your spare wheel well and you won't lose any boot space. When you tow the boat you can throw your spare in it to travel.

PS. Notice I said BF - I would keep away from BAs.

vanman_75 · 23-10-2010, 11:39 AM

wish i had photos of the day i backed my old 16 foot fibreglass into the howard bridge boat ramp at low tide ...mud up to the sills with about 20 metres to the water ...the old fairlane sportsman did it piece of p.... your main thing i would suggest is to make sure you get a falcon with limited slip diff , a lot of 4x4s only drive 2 wheels anyway .Been towing stuff with falcons since i could drive as long as its within its tow rating sweet as .
ps ask anyone who knows the ramp im talking about you would be impressed ....was a bit muddy in the car but floormats fix that .

T3man · 23-10-2010, 11:56 AM

This is the sort of thing would suit the job ...

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?trecs=63&tsrc=allcarhome&__Ntk=CarAll &Cr=0&__Ntt=v8&R=9024756&__Qpb=true&__D=v8&silo=10 11&__Ns=pCar_RankSort_Int32|1||pCar_PriceSort_Deci mal|1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&key words=v8&__No=45&__sid=124297FF4AD0&__N=1216%20124 6%201247%201252%201282%204294966463%204294966280&_ _Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&seot=1&__Nne=15&__Dx=m ode%20matchany

Or if you really wanted a BA you couldn't go past this ...

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?__Qpb=true&tsrc=allcarhome&__Ntk=CarA ll&Cr=4&__Ntt=v8&R=9059184&__D=v8&silo=1011&__Ns=p Car_RankSort_Int32|1||pCar_PriceSort_Decimal|1||pC ar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&keywords=v8& __No=0&__sid=124297FF4AD0&__N=1216%201246%201247%2 01252%201282%204294966463%204294966280&trecs=63&__ Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&seot=1&__Nne=15&__Dx=mo de%20matchany

T3man · 23-10-2010, 11:58 AM

deleted - repost

T3man · 23-10-2010, 11:58 AM

deleted - repost #2

effin stoopid browser!

Kamshaaft · 23-10-2010, 12:01 PM

Go for an auto with a nice big aftermarket trans cooler rather than a manual in either and you'll be happy, but the Falcon 6 works just fine for towing has pulled car trailers with other falcons, 180SX and Silvias before quite easily.

jlef5 · 23-10-2010, 01:49 PM

Going to have to be a ute now. Just got informed by the missus she doesn't want to get a Navara now so its going to have to be a ute so i can transport the dogs.

T3man · 23-10-2010, 02:28 PM

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?trecs=12&tsrc=allcarhome&__Ntk=CarAll &Cr=4&__Ntt=XR8%20ute%20lpg%20dual%20fuel&R=947968 4&seot=1&silo=1011&__Ns=pCar_RankSort_Int32|1||pCa r_PriceSort_Decimal|1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Mo del_String|0&keywords=XR8%20ute%20lpg%20dual%20fue l&__D=XR8%20ute%20lpg%20dual%20fuel&__sid=124297FF 4AD0&__N=1216%201246%201247%201252%201282%20429496 6463%20412&PriceTo=412&__Ntx=mode%20matchallpartia l&__Qpb=true&__Nne=15&__Dx=mode%20matchany

jlef5 · 23-10-2010, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3man

PS. Notice I said BF - I would keep away from BAs.

Why should i stay away from the BA's I will only have abut 20 thousand for boat and car so more i spend on car less for the boat. would like to have about 8 thousand for the boat. 12 or so for the car.

Ben73 · 23-10-2010, 05:36 PM

Towing 1 tonne with a powerful sedan will be no problem.
Getting the car out of a boat ramp will be a pain in the ***. I'd suggest some sort of AWD for that.
When I eventually get my boat. I want a Jeep Grand Cherokee with a V8 engine. Power and 4WD grip.

RAREV8 · 23-10-2010, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben73

Towing 1 tonne with a powerful sedan will be no problem.
Getting the car out of a boat ramp will be a pain in the ***. I'd suggest some sort of AWD for that.
When I eventually get my boat. I want a Jeep Grand Cherokee with a V8 engine. Power and 4WD grip.

There is some merit in what you say- just because a car has a tow rating of 1600kgs for example doesn't mean that it can get those 1600kgs back up a slippery boat ramp etc......having said that, most boat ramps I've used around NSW are perfectly navigable with an RWD sedan such as a Falcon/commodore.

My work are giving me an Aurion (loathsome car) next year in place of the G6- I rang Toyota to discuss how good a tow car they were and they gave me a similar reply- tow rating good but being FWD, they would not like to guarantee my success pulling 1300kgs up a boat ramp!

**ebxr8240** · 23-10-2010, 08:04 PM

I have never had any issues pulling boats from ramps in NSW..
I have extension draw bar on trailor so we DON'T have to back the wheels into the water.. Yes I've had some wheelspin.. But eventually it pulls boat out without too many issues.. The auto cars do it easier ...
Helps if the guys that go with you help remove sand from in front of boat wheels too...

Crazy Dazz · 23-10-2010, 08:53 PM

FORGET V8s unless you definitely plan to go LPG. If you don’t like the running costs of your patrol, you won’t be impressed with a V8 towing a boat. Any decent ford 6 with a transmission cooler is more than upto the task.
If you need to “launch” your boat, then an extended drawbar can make that a hairy experience. Better just to get a car that you don’t mind getting wet.
Ignore all the “my 1966 Falcon once hauled the Queen Mary up Mt Kosciusko” stories. Anybody that says they have never experienced traction problems recovering a boat with a 2wd is either full of ****, or has never owned a decent sized boat. I hauled a 23ft Caribbean Crusader around for many years, with three different cars, and have launched and recovered it from many different ramps. I speak from real world experience.

If you are planning on a RWD UTE, then you’d better have some really FAT mates to ride in the back, or you will really struggle for traction. A LSD won’t help, and can actually make matters worse. It can’t magically restore traction to a slimey/sandy ramp, and spinning both wheels is worse than one.

Exactly how BIG are your dogs…. What about a wagon with a cargo barrier?

Between my EB sedan, and EF wagon, I found the wagon with it’s leaf springs and extra weight to be better. Air shockies can help lift the rear. Just make sure the tailgate seal is good.

T3man · 24-10-2010, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlef5

Why should i stay away from the BA's I will only have abut 20 thousand for boat and car so more i spend on car less for the boat. would like to have about 8 thousand for the boat. 12 or so for the car.

The BF has six speed auto available is the main reason. Your figures have changed from your opening post. If you now only have 12 for a ute then you better be looking at AUs. Better proposition than a BA. (I just don't like BAs if you haven't noticed.)

It's total garbage that you need AWD or 4WD to pull the boat you have alluded to up any ramp. Any car will do it - yes, even a FWD. And a LSD is never a disadvantage when trying to pull the boat out. However TC will work just as well if your car has 4 channel ABS.

wrongwaynorris · 24-10-2010, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAREV8

There is some merit in what you say- just because a car has a tow rating of 1600kgs for example doesn't mean that it can get those 1600kgs back up a slippery boat ramp etc......having said that, most boat ramps I've used around NSW are perfectly navigable with an RWD sedan such as a Falcon/commodore.

My work are giving me an Aurion (loathsome car) next year in place of the G6- I rang Toyota to discuss how good a tow car they were and they gave me a similar reply- tow rating good but being FWD, they would not like to guarantee my success pulling 1300kgs up a boat ramp!

My company did the same thing to me , the Aurion would not pull an old lady off a tin ****pot with a bit of dew on the ground . truly truly pathetic tow vehicles , come to think of it just pathetic vehicles period .

Crazy Dazz · 24-10-2010, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3man

It's total garbage that you need AWD or 4WD to pull the boat you have alluded to up any ramp. Any car will do it - yes, even a FWD.

Oh

There are ROADS in this country where you need 4wd just to keep moving, so how could you possibly say there aren’t any ramps where it’s necessary???Contrary to what some city folk seem to think, not every “ramp” is some nice engineered piece of masonry provided at great expense by your friendly local council.
Try retrieving a heavy boat on a mudflat, and then walk back and tell me again how you don’t need 4wd.

As I said, I originally towed my boat with my EB and EF, and mostly it was fine. I often struggled for traction retrieving on slippery ramps, but extra weight usually fixed that. Obviously I stayed away from unsealed ramps, but even so I had to be helped a couple of times by a 4wd. The Patrol not only made those routine trips MUCH easier, but allowed me to venture further afield. I recall one particular trip, where I really thought I was buggered. There were no other cars around, and the Patrol was sinking into mud. Shoving branches under the wheels, and deflating the tyres, we slogged out of there with the **** sliding everywhere spraying mud over everything. There is not a 2wd car on the planet that could have got us out of that.

Nobody is saying that he will NEED 4wd on every occasion. As stated, a Falcon is more than upto the job of towing, and if he sticks to good quality concrete ramps he’ll have few problems and none that are insurmountable. The worst you will ever get is wheelspin, and on concrete you can usually overcome that with simply more weight.
However I will go as far as to say that 4wd will improve just about every launch and recovery, and would give him the option of straying further from the beaten track.

Given his budget I would recommend a 6 cylinder AU Wagon, and I would still seriously think about putting it on gas.

T3man · 24-10-2010, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Oh

There are ROADS in this country where you need 4wd just to keep moving, so how could you possibly say there aren’t any ramps where it’s necessary???Contrary to what some city folk seem to think, not every “ramp” is some nice engineered piece of masonry provided at great expense by your friendly local council.
Try retrieving a heavy boat on a mudflat, and then walk back and tell me again how you don’t need 4wd.

Oh here we go ...

Why can't people just read?

I know you are trying to offer good advice but the OP was specific in his situation and his requirements. That's all you need to answer. I do agree with the general sentiments behind what you've said.

I didn't read anywhere that he was wanting to tow a 2 tonne boat across the Gibson Desert (or even a mud flat).

He is getting rid of his 4WD for good reason - why keep trying to talk him out of it? He said he is launching about 1 tonne max and using only concrete ramps.

I did not say "there aren't any ramps where it's necessary" - I said "for the boat he alluded to you don't need AWD or 4WD ... " - oh, just go read it again (slowly) for yourself before you start arguing just for argument's sake.

As for your "city folk" comment; I live on a river just 200 metres from a couple of the most slippery ramps you'll ever come across, and not only have I used them myself for over 35 years, but have watched literally thousands of launches and retrievals from them. And I have used a 4WD to help retrieve people's boats for them many times, so I do know the types of conditions that may be encountered in the extreme.

More often than not when I see someone having trouble retrieving their boat it is because the operator has NFI - not because they have a useless vehicle.

PS. The heaviest boat I've ever retrieved is just over 40 tonne.

jlef5 · 29-10-2010, 11:13 PM

Thinking i will probably go a BA ute or BF if i can find one cheap enough, still tossing up between a 6 or an 8 though. I'm a sparky so having a ute won't be too bad of an idea. Will keep you all posted. Thanks for everyones input and ideas.

kennyboy · 29-10-2010, 11:33 PM

As my signature says i have a Ba RTV with v8, my boat is a 4mtere tinny with decking, probably doesn't weigh as much as the boat you have, but the trailer is home made galv steel, so weighs a lot more than the trailers most would have, plus i tend to overload it with eskies etc, have had the guards sitting on the tyres at times, i know stupid but fixed before major damage done. 2 xmases ago drove across the nullabor & back with boat loaded up no problems. Have since had the lilpg system fitted, no power lost & definitely cheaper to run.

jlef5 · 29-10-2010, 11:43 PM

Kennyboy have you ever had any of the wheel spin as discussed by some of the people in this thread if so how bad was it, the RTV is what im looking at.

kennyboy · 30-10-2010, 12:00 AM

yes, in my experience on ramps with wet or loose surfaces, have to be careful, choose second gear. problem is part the tyres for rtv are not the best for grip. only two tyres available, the original goodyears & bridgestones. The bridgestones are my current tyre, only a little better than the goodyears in the loose stuff. lack of weight over the rear wheels is another issue.

mrbaxr6t · 31-10-2010, 02:27 PM

I am relatively new to boating having just recently purchased a jetski, I have a BA xr6 turbo (6 speed manual) and have launched and retrieved the ski a couple times so far, I know its not that heavy but I did notice that below the waterline on a corrugated concrete boat ramp it was extremely slippery if you got your rear axles that low and onto the slippery stuff you would be in real big trouble - general rule is you want the tow vehicle to be at least as heavy as the load you are towing ideally the tow vehicle should be heavier for greatest stability and no speed wobbles, having a RWD falcon may limit your access to some ramps and limit the weight of the boat you can launch and retrieve, if you are aware of the limitations (and use the equipment accordingly) you will not have a problem