Hypothetical New Car

388cube_edxr8 · 20-10-2009, 08:01 PM

Most of us have a particular car we are saving for - one we would like to own at some point in an ideal future. For me, it's a BF GT. Or maybe you are about to buy a car. Fiesta, Gallardo, whatever.

My hypothetical is this:

If your next car was available in another model, exactly as it is now with the following differences, would you consider a test drive/purchase?

The transmission would be an automatically or manually shifted CVT (you choose).

The car is available with All Wheel Drive, with a front/rear drive split of your choice (all the way from 0% front, 100% rear to 100% front, 0% rear, or any point in between).

The car runs a non-electric regenerative braking system, yielding a 50% increase in combined fuel economy.

There is a 10% reduction in boot space to accommodate the regenerative braking system.

All the other aspects of the car remain identical to the particular model you are already considering (price, engine choice, weight, ride comfort, build quality, reliability, etc.).

Does this hypothetical vehicle interest you? Please vote in the poll.

Yellow_Festiva · 20-10-2009, 09:05 PM

So, same car with half the consumption and 90% of the boot space, along with the other bells and whistles.

Sure.

My poor XF · 20-10-2009, 09:09 PM

For me it would depend on how good the CVT is, if its anything like the Colts at work (granted my only experience with it) i would run and hide.

If the CVT was good sign me up.

**SSD-85** · 20-10-2009, 09:30 PM

I guess i'm just too old fashioned lol.

Iggypoppin' · 21-10-2009, 12:03 AM

CVT?
Excuse my ignorance

Ghiadude · 21-10-2009, 12:06 AM

i voted yes - providing it was as reliable or more so than my current ride

Ghiadude · 21-10-2009, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 76txcoupe

CVT?
Excuse my ignorance

constantly variable transmission

Paxton · 21-10-2009, 12:25 AM

Nope.

The transmission is the killer for me.

No Gears, no interest.

brendo83 · 21-10-2009, 07:27 AM

I'm assuming he means dual clutch transmission, not constant variable transmission.

388cube_edxr8 · 21-10-2009, 01:43 PM

No actually I mean constantly variable transmission. Being the nutty professor that I am, I have designed a CVT that does not limit the power output from the engine, and is seamlessly integrated with an industry leading AWD system and Hybrid technology. It even has built-in traction control. All these features can be easily tuned and adjusted by the driver, even while on the move. All of these features (minus the CVT) are easily adaptable to work with an existing automatic or manual transmission, should the potential buyer prefer it.

I just wanted to make sure that at least a few people are interested before I invest in it any further.

388cube_edxr8 · 22-10-2009, 01:52 PM

Well the general consensus seems to be that most people would be interested in this new driveline. I wonder if that's because most of us on here are car enthusiasts and know of the common limitations of a CVT and AWD system, of becuase it promises a fuel saving. If some of the people who voted could provide a little insight to their decision it would be very much appreciated. Who knows, the people who liked it might have one of their own in the near future.

brendo83 · 25-10-2009, 11:23 AM

Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean by automatic or manually shifted CVT? CVT has no gears so there's nothing to shift. what are you shifting?

Yellow_Festiva · 25-10-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brendo83

Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean by automatic or manually shifted CVT? CVT has no gears so there's nothing to shift. what are you shifting?

You would be shifting the ratio of the pulleys and belts. There will be a pre determined ratio where regular gears ratios would fall, and selecting low or 2 in an auto box will probably just stop the CVT from increasing the ratio over the pre-set ratio.

Well, this is just my assumption.

chevypower · 25-10-2009, 06:22 PM

Well I want the 2011 F350... the CVT would put me off, unless it had all the benefits the regular auto had, and I can't think of a CVT being able to be that strong. But in this theoretical example, you did say it has all the benefits of the existing technology, so why make a change to CVT - what are the theoretical improvements? Even if CVT did work on this vehicle, I honestly don't think it would improve it in reality.
What I would prefer is electric propulsion with regen braking, a smaller internal combustion generator. 400-500kw/2000Nm+ 50mpg+ and improved capability, performance and durability from the current generation - that's when I will be very impressed. All these other things may (not guaranteed), may make marginal fuel economy enhancements, but electric propulsion is the only one that is going to make a significant improvement.

Joshmcmillan · 25-10-2009, 10:02 PM

A falcon with AWD, 50% more fuel efficient with a loss of only 10% boot space sounds awesome.

paule11 · 25-10-2009, 11:05 PM

if the transmission is as good as what I have now zf 6speed why not and who wouldnt want to use 50% less fuel
as for awd dont care if it is or still rwd I wouldnt buy a large car with fwd

andrewts · 26-10-2009, 12:50 AM

I voted yes but with a regular auto. I have driven cars with CVT and I think it worked pretty well, the fuel savings were there and they definitely seemed to get up to speed very quickly, but if I was buying it, I would want a conventional auto. It's just something you get used to having.
Otherwise all other prospects are very interesting. Who would miss 10% of their boot anyway, we all fill them with speakers and LPG tanks anyway lol.

388cube_edxr8 · 26-10-2009, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

Well I want the 2011 F350... the CVT would put me off, unless it had all the benefits the regular auto had, and I can't think of a CVT being able to be that strong. But in this theoretical example, you did say it has all the benefits of the existing technology, so why make a change to CVT - what are the theoretical improvements? Even if CVT did work on this vehicle, I honestly don't think it would improve it in reality.
What I would prefer is electric propulsion with regen braking, a smaller internal combustion generator. 400-500kw/2000Nm+ 50mpg+ and improved capability, performance and durability from the current generation - that's when I will be very impressed. All these other things may (not guaranteed), may make marginal fuel economy enhancements, but electric propulsion is the only one that is going to make a significant improvement.

Don't mean to shoot you down mate, but electric drive is a dead end with today's technology. Electric motors and generators are uneconomically expensive, and the batteries that would be needed for electric regenerative braking are heavy, bulky, unreliable, expensive and notoriously inefficient. The battery in a Prius, for example, returns about 75% efficiency. That means it is only possible to retrieve 75% of the power originally stored. Not to mention, the chemicals that go into making the battery for a Prius do more environmental damage than the Prius is claimed to save with its high fuel ecomomy, which are false claims anyway.

My system has no electric parts at all, save for a few solenoids.

The benefits of upgrading to a CVT are that the gear ratio can be optimised for efficiency when cruising, or power when accelerating. Think of driving to work at a comfortable 2000rpm, and then you need to overtake a truck. Floor it, and the revs shoot to 6000rpm and stay there, until you ease off the power.

Yellow_Festiva, the automatically shifted CVT would operate just like any other CVT out there, but my design means it can take more than 100nm of torque before it disintegrates. Quite a lot more actually. Think supercharged 5.4 Boss. The gearstick would be a regular T-Bar (PRND).

The manually shifted CVT is designed the same as the automatic, but instead of having a regular T-Bar, there is a "gear" lever, that is used to infinitely adjust the gear ratio while driving (or stopped).

Preferring a regular auto or manual transmission is understandable, and the system can be very easily adapted to work with an existing gearbox. I am actually in the process of retrofitting the AWD system to a base model ED Automatic.

Any more questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

[/WAFFLE]

chevypower · 26-10-2009, 04:28 PM

Oh I hate the Prius, but electric can be done right (in a series hybrid form at least right now). Eg: Fisker Karma, Chevy Volt, there was an F150 with 100mpg that got built by some company, a Mini with 3000Nm of torque and 150mpg. I know it can be done.. just a matter of when, cost etc etc.
This is the only kind of electric system I want to see. I hate the current parallel hybrids that still rely on 90% of propulsion from the internal combustion engine. It means there is still a $10k-15k premium and only a 10% reduction in fuel consumption.
As for battery technology, like everything else, will improve over time. Toyota's Lead Acid batteries (i think they use) big mistake!

View Poll Results: Would you be interested?
Yes, this alternative vehicle would interest me	23	46.94%
No, this sounds too complicated for little old me	12	24.49%
Yes, but I would prefer a regular manual transmission	10	20.41%
Yes, but I would prefer a regular automatic transmission	4	8.16%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll