Fastest (1/4 mile) stock aussie made fords - Page 3

T3man · 24-09-2007, 07:46 PM

Take the Chase out of Bathurst and those times would change a bit eh ... Moff didn't have to brake, turn through the Chase, and then accellerate again, like cars have to do today (and at the fastest part of the circuit).

It simply isn't realistic to try to compare cars of 3 decades or more apart. The GTHO III has been the benchmark and probably always will be - a great testimony to it that this many years later people are still using it as such. But most 6cyl or 8 cyl performance cars today, even a 4cyl turbo tin can, would probably hose a HO (but not by much

)

PS. Oh, and the 1972 cars didn't have to comply with the same restrictions that the 12hr cars had to - and how many drivers of the calibre of Moff were at the 12 hr???

nugget378 · 24-09-2007, 07:47 PM

Now that is suprising 4vman.

bit of ownage too..

sbutler · 24-09-2007, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Here comes another round of T3 V Boss...

Cant wait!!

4Vman · 24-09-2007, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3man

Take the Chase out of Bathurst and those times would change a bit eh ... Moff didn't have to brake, turn through the Chase, and then accellerate again, like cars have to do today (and at the fastest part of the circuit).

It simply isn't realistic to try to compare cars of 3 decades or more apart. The GTHO III has been the benchmark and probably always will be - a great testimony to it that this many years later people are still using it as such. But most 6cyl or 8 cyl performance cars today, even a 4cyl turbo tin can, would probably hose a HO (but not by much

)

The chase is worth about 7 seconds i believe, but what are the improvements around the rest of the track worth? especially across the top?
Even without allowing for improvements that still puts the Phase 3 ahead of the XR6T and on 1972 rubber!!

I agree though, it probably isnt fair to compare...!

Falc'man · 24-09-2007, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 56L

That seems like a pretty reasonable order,how would that order go if you put them in on a circuit?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugget378

Forget the magazines.
What is the EBGT? I test drove one when they were new at Dominelli ford,IMO they are more an "image car" than anything.
Have a drive of one of these old cars with a good set of tyres and then decide,untill you do that you are just guessing.
Do you realise that there is 3 seconds a lap from today real good street tyres to a set of semi slicks,imagine the difference to the tyres of the 70's?
You cant transfer the times from back then to now,the tyres are a million times better,the track prep too,I wasnt going to bring this up for fear of stirring up a hornets nest,but a friend of mine has basically a "HO" spec engine in an XY fairmont,and it ran a fly's dick off a 12 on street tyres with a 3.5 rear/toploader combo.
The XY is lighter and these "built to spec" engines are making just shy of 400hp,its not rocket science to work it out,1500kgx390hp..

I was just answering the question, stock for stock and as per thread title. The argument of tyres/technology has nothing to do with it. I agree with you the I've always believed the P3 was capable of 13's especially with todays tyres.

And why should I forget the magazine? Agreed, they do have some BS from time to time but as soon as someone gives us that comparison of both cars on the same track and the same day you can't deny what that outcome was...

And one other thing about the magazines, they're the ones pumping up the tribal debates and they do stir some passion towards the Hoey... to alot of people (including myself) alot of our knowledge came from these magazines. Needless to say though, I certainly wouldn't ever consider myself anywhere near an expert of said legendary car.

And no doubt in my mind, old school is where my heart is...

nommic · 24-09-2007, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I know this will ruffle a few feathers and ego's but this year at the Bathurst 12hr event a BFXR8 out shone all the other local products including XR6T, F6 and T3 as the first local car home..

Best Lap times:

XR6T 2.46..
F6 2.39.88
T3 2.40.67
XR8 2.40.60

So the XR8 had a slower best lap than the F6 and about level with the T3. Not exactly a huge difference between all of them either.

windsor xxww · 24-09-2007, 08:37 PM

how fast over the 1/4 mile was the gt v6 capri?

fordAU · 24-09-2007, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by windsor xxww

how fast over the 1/4 mile was the gt v6 capri?

15's on a good day.

outback_ute · 24-09-2007, 10:52 PM

Not sure the TE50 or the F6 had a driver like John Bowe behind the wheel!

Aug 1992 issue of Wheels magazine had a comparison between the EB XR8 & Phase 3 (& VP HSV Clubsport & Brock VH SS Group 3) driven around Bathurst by Colin Bond - the XR8 & HO had identical lap times of 2:58.0. The Phase 3 pulled 0.35G acceleration vs 0.30G for the XR8 while the XR8 did 1.15G cornering vs 1.00G for the Phase 3 and 0.75G vs 0.60G braking. Pretty easy to see where each car made or lost time.

steamin63 · 24-09-2007, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You'd hope so too after 36 years of development, but when you look at 1/4 times we havent come very far at all considering a well tuned Phase 3 is capable of a high 13 on decent rubber...

can you imagine what the clevo would be capable of if 30 odd years of developement had gone into it. just look at the windsor. they transformed a wheezy old boat anchor into a pretty capable engine.makes you wonder.

**Bluehoon** · 24-09-2007, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steamin63

can you imagine what the clevo would be capable of if 30 odd years of developement had gone into it. just look at the windsor. they transformed a wheezy old boat anchor into a pretty capable engine.makes you wonder.

Viva La Hurricane.. Clevo re badged!!!!

Piotr · 25-09-2007, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outback_ute

Not sure the TE50 or the F6 had a driver like John Bowe behind the wheel!

Aug 1992 issue of Wheels magazine had a comparison between the EB XR8 & Phase 3 (& VP HSV Clubsport & Brock VH SS Group 3) driven around Bathurst by Colin Bond - the XR8 & HO had identical lap times of 2:58.0. The Phase 3 pulled 0.35G acceleration vs 0.30G for the XR8 while the XR8 did 1.15G cornering vs 1.00G for the Phase 3 and 0.75G vs 0.60G braking. Pretty easy to see where each car made or lost time.

Your kidding youself if a stock Flacon will pull 1.15g's in corners.

nugget378 · 25-09-2007, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steamin63

can you imagine what the clevo would be capable of if 30 odd years of developement had gone into it.

Dont have to imagine,Im building one

:

smally289 · 25-09-2007, 06:44 PM

Im guessing some of these 'stock' later model cars with times claimed by owners are equipped with better rubber than they left the factory with.

Id love to see what a stock Ph3 with the 3.5 diff and a set of ET Street tyres would do. Or maybe an F6 with Aquajets!!!

RACINGdork · 25-09-2007, 07:10 PM

my times were on factory dunlops

ST · 25-09-2007, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Best Lap times:
F6 2.39.88
XR8 2.40.60

Your numbers say the F6 was the quickest...?

4Vman · 25-09-2007, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSW

Your numbers say the F6 was the quickest...?

Um, yes and? the point was more to do with comparing modern day Ford times to the HO times from 72, none the less the XR8 finished ahead of the F6 too...

Tiapan · 25-09-2007, 08:17 PM

if the holdens fastest car is the VE gts which runs flat 13.00's then that would make the six speed typhoon the fastes aussie production car!!!!

might go tell the holden fellas :P

Steffo · 25-09-2007, 08:18 PM

Its not really an effective comparison. The track was different when the HO raced for starters...

4Vman · 25-09-2007, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

Its not really an effective comparison. The track was different when the HO raced for starters...

I agree, there are pro's and cons for both era's, today the track is a well maintained race track, in 72 it was a bumpy country road full of pot holes.. still its not that much different when you balance things out..

mongoloid · 25-09-2007, 08:21 PM

My personal best Manual T3, 13.56, stock everything (rubber included)

Steffo · 25-09-2007, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I agree, there are pro's and cons for both era's, today the track is a well maintained race track, in 72 it was a bumpy country road full of pot holes.. still its not that much different when you balance things out..

The comparison is still null and void. We don't have a time machine and an F6 to race in 1972 and, well, do you have GT-HO times from today?

fairBA · 25-09-2007, 08:44 PM

correct me if I'm wrong but the Bathurst race was 500 laps back in the phase 3 days - How would a moden day f6/xr8 feel after 500 laps around a 6k track?

fairBA · 25-09-2007, 08:44 PM

arn't we gone of the days of factory/production racing? the v8 utes only seem to do around 15 laps per race??

smally289 · 25-09-2007, 08:48 PM

500 laps makes it a 3,100km race!!!

It was 500miles, or 800 km.

fairBA · 25-09-2007, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smally351

500 laps makes it a 3,100km race!!!

It was 500miles, or 800 km.

Indeed what i ment -
but again, could an F6/xr8 been driven like that for 800km straight????

T3man · 25-09-2007, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fairBA

Indeed what i ment -
but again, could an F6/xr8 been driven like that for 800km straight????

Well they were driven around Bathurst for 12 hours - just a tad longer than the GTHOs were ever asked to do eh?

mainyard · 25-09-2007, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fairBA

correct me if I'm wrong but the Bathurst race was 500 laps back in the phase 3 days - How would a moden day f6/xr8 feel after 500 laps around a 6k track?

161 laps i do believe it is now.

fordAU · 25-09-2007, 09:06 PM

According to the link below 7 Falcon XY GTHO's entered the 1972 race, 3 DNF so as far as reliability goes they were probably no better or worse than a modern day Falcon.

This link could be of interest re Bathurst.
http://nmrm.velocity.net.au/fact.cfm?&startAt=26

56L · 25-09-2007, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordAU

According to the link below 7 Falcon XY GTHO's entered the 1972 race, 3 DNF so as far as reliability goes they were probably no better or worse than a modern day Falcon.

This link could be of interest re Bathurst.
http://nmrm.velocity.net.au/fact.cfm?&startAt=26

That was more due to bad weather conditions wasnt it,a majority of engine failurers were due to simple reasons that were not allowed to be addressed due to factory only parts e.g unbaffled sumps,no roller rockers

Does anybody have the bathurst lap times of the xy gt,s in historic NC class races ,i think these cars have been modded to match the likes of the current technology