The gradual removal of the "average/family" enthusiast choice - Page 2

Swordie · 23-12-2021, 08:57 PM

Forget BMW 1 Series for 5 people. There's not much room in the back seat unless they are small children.

Some suggestions. Buy they best you can afford. They could seat 5 but it will be tight.

Mazda 3
i30 N Line
Holden Astra
Golf
Honda Civic

bb_zetec · 24-12-2021, 12:09 AM

Missus and I test drove a manual i30 nline sedan.
We diddnt like the interior...it smelt of plastic and felt cheap. Infotainment is older type and the seats and steering wheel felt rough.
We had real high hopes for it.
The manual at 32k only comes in the standard version, the premium is much better but auto only.

I asked the dealer how many manuals they sold versus auto...answer is none. They can't offload the demo unit, how will I ever resell what nobody wants?

The i30n hatch from Europe is much nicer, but a but small.

oldel · 24-12-2021, 05:08 AM

What you want is unobtainium. you're basically wanting the ideal car that never existed, so it was never 'removed'.
5 seater has usually been commo size, and they've never got under 10l/100km, because 5 seats required bulk.
Compromises, "pick 2" etc.
Closest thing would be mondeo size, but they're fwd. That's the closest to economy and size you want but they were a flop, no one wants them even with man trans, so it seems the market has decided your wants are not worthy.
Otherwise
ecoboost falcons are auto.
maybe lancer? (which is fwd of course.)

bmw australia never imported plain 5 series manuals. But overseas the 5 series is what a buyer like you would buy. BMW really are the last manufacturer to sell family sedans to meet your spec, pity bmw australia harldy ever import manuals. (Might be worth checking jap-imports for man bmw)

Maybe look at old 3 ser? While BMW aus don't have 5ser manuals they were more generous with the importing of 3er with man trans.

Or get a bargain with a manual mondeo because no one wants them.

last thought: nissan/infinti? No idea if they sell manuals but again they made cars that meet the brief that no one cared about. Late edit: yeah, seems australian importers just don't sell manual trans. US/japan got heaps of manual nissans (and BMWs)

Every enthusiast wants what you specced but no one ever bought them in great numbers, so manual is dead, rwd is dead, a sporty sedan that seats 5 is dead.
People that buy cars either don't care about economy if it's a rwd, or if they care about space and economy they never cared about the trans or which wheels driven.

To get a spacious man trans rwd sedan that also gets great fuel economy is either a dream - or something new/exxy/and wouldn't want to own it out of warranty - ie turbo, hpfp, lean tune/egr. port injection etc.

Forget 5 seat capacity, or forget rwd, or forget manual, or forget undr 10l/100km. Forget 2 of those things ;).
Lucky you don't want something new! At least you're willing to look at up to 20 years old so you have the option of mondeo/626, lancer, bmw 3 ser e46 with the last of the old reliable engines (2001 for 4cyl, 2004 for 6cyl) etc.
E: Big ask for 5 people in a 3er but you are the one that mentioned a 1er BMW...

Everyone buying new these days just gets a hyundai, mazda 3, camry or rav 4 LOL

**Polyal** · 24-12-2021, 08:48 AM

oldel, agree with most of what you say, the 5 series that come in manual are the bangles (which I love) but most of them are TDI's with 200,000kms.

This is our second car, I imagine 80% of the time it will be just me going to work but if for whatever reason I need to pick some of the kids up I need enough room that a <1hr trip is not like Twister.

Throw in the want for it to be a bit of fun to start and end the day and thats all I am after.

Ive got a test drive of a Euro R in the 28th so that will be interesting. it actually has 150,000kms but Im a little flexible with that on a NA Honda engine. It is FWD obviously but something draws me to it.

I did see one 2013 6 cylinder BMW 3, that had a I6T and it was snapped up very quickly.

Ohh found another one, but not quite in the condition I am after..shame

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/coop...cle/1286198083

**janddbone** · 24-12-2021, 11:02 AM

I am doing similar looking for a car for my nephew. We settled on A 1 or 3 series BMW for the reasons you list!

Swordie · 24-12-2021, 11:16 AM

BMW 320d F30 manual. $22,990, 53,245km

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/donc...ual/1277553353

**DFB FGXR6** · 24-12-2021, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bb_zetec

Missus and I test drove a manual i30 nline sedan.
We diddnt like the interior...it smelt of plastic and felt cheap. Infotainment is older type and the seats and steering wheel felt rough.
We had real high hopes for it.
The manual at 32k only comes in the standard version, the premium is much better but auto only.

I asked the dealer how many manuals they sold versus auto...answer is none. They can't offload the demo unit, how will I ever resell what nobody wants?

The i30n hatch from Europe is much nicer, but a but small.

Hyundai's and Kia's have a rather strange odor to their cabins for some reason.

naddis01 · 24-12-2021, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Hyundai's and Kia's have a rather strange odor to their cabins for some reason.

I can't say I've noticed any weird smells in our new I20N. It smells like any new car.

It's been a surprising good little car. Well in the week we have had it. The interior is filled with hard plastic but other than that it is a very inviting. The seats are very comfortable, the ride is good and the N mode is addictive with the exhaust pops and rev matching. I'm about 186cm tall and can fit in the back seat behind where I would have the driver's seat with leg room to spare. The boot is non existent though.

bb_zetec · 25-12-2021, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

I can't say I've noticed any weird smells in our new I20N. It smells like any new car.

It's been a surprising good little car.

Yeah we tested an i30N (not nline) hatch and while we loved the performance, it was too.small.

The interior in the European built N series is like chalk and cheese compared to the Korean stuff.

But you get what you pay for as they say.

Hyundai for 2022 has released a i30N sedan in manual, that you should consider.

happy1 · 25-12-2021, 03:14 PM

All performance petrols are far thirstier than the 8 or 9 per 100 that you mentioned. If you could find a diesel they have a lot of torque at a lot less consumption. BMW with the 3 litre 6 cylinder diesel are stealth race cars. 130d, 330d, x3 3.0 :-) and beware the BMW 2.0d had timing chain design problems

DoreSlamR · 26-12-2021, 11:52 AM

Just bite the bullet and take your pick from dozens of boring medium sized SUV’s

That’s the future of family cars

Franco Cozzo · 29-12-2021, 10:43 AM

I wonder when ex Victoria Police BMW 530D's will be hitting the used car market and how much they'll go for?

Speaking of which BMW 535D is appearing within your budget if you don't mind playing Russian roulette with 3 in the chamber.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...SE-AD-11928109

It's auto though but it exceeds your fuel economy requirements by a mile and with 600nm torque I reckon it'll rip mad skids - 220KW/600NM and sub 8L/100km.

It's also pre DPF/SCR bull****.

Edit: Appears to be Euro V - may have DPF

Ford17 · 30-12-2021, 11:55 AM

Out of interest, set the filters on Carsales to match the original criteria (except the fuel consumption):
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/?q=...))&sort=~Price

Only 28 cars show, many of them Commodores.

Of these 28, I'd choose this XR6T:
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...1843376/?Cr=11

Gumtree with similar filters applied has a slightly larger range, but cannot group body types together:

Edit: the below links contain the filters, but they don't initally work when clicked on.
=> The transmission and drivetrain filters need to be re-selected:

3x Hatchbacks:
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-cars-va...0.00__30000.00

34x Sedans:
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-cars-va...0.00__30000.00

In Focus · 30-12-2021, 07:32 PM

A couple of AWD options.

The newer Scooby.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/?so..._.Model.WRX.))

Older Scooby.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/?q=....)&sort=~Price

Lancer Ralliart. Automatic, but would fit a lot of the other requirements.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/mit...e/under-30000/

EDIT: I see now WRX came up previously, but I'll leave these here anyway. Always good to have options.

naddis01 · 30-12-2021, 08:26 PM

Some shameless self promotion. Despite being 2 door, it has been our family car for the past 5 years and we have never had a problem being 2 door. The Recaros flip and slide forward very easily. I am 6'2" and 100+kg and can get in the back easily.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...12106624/?Cr=0

**DJM83** · 30-12-2021, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

Some shameless self promotion. Despite being 2 door, it has been our family car for the past 5 years and we have never had a problem being 2 door. The Recaros flip and slide forward very easily. I am 6'2" and 100+kg and can get in the back easily.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...12106624/?Cr=0

image

Heard some horror stories about that blue on them being poor quality etc.
Yours looks in as new condition, bloody nice car they are.

**Mont5.0** · 30-12-2021, 11:13 PM

2nd hand Kia ftw. plobably end up with 3/4 of the warranty as well.

Schtoo · 02-01-2022, 02:03 AM

Sorry, I'm fresh out of unicorns. Still might have some rocking horse poop laying about though...

As you have probably guessed by now, what you're after isn't what 'most' folks have been buying, so there isn't anything kicking around for you to buy, not around here anyway.

Sooo, I took a look at my previous address, and it's BMW 320i with a manual, a buckfun of WRXs and a smattering of various other things like Renault 220, etc.

Legacy? I was actually hoping someone had been mad enough to spec a Levorg with a manual (sure it was an option when we were looking, decided against the Levorg because it was too nice with 2 kids and a dog.) Not RWD, but it's not FWD either.

Here's where I was looking, might be interesting. Set the search for 2000cc or bigger, 'sports' model (turbo, etc.), 5 seats, price range of $15-30K, manual, under 100,000km.

https://www.carsensor.net/usedcar/in...HMIN=2000&ST=R

What I did myself in a similar situation was bought into the SUV world because that's how things are. I wanted something interesting, had to settle for practical and comfortable. We got 7 seats (5 regular, 2 sometimes), really good fuel economy, obnoxiously comfortable, boring as bug poop but safe. It's the sensible family car. When the kids gets to driving age, they can have it. Boring and slow but if they drive into a truck, good chance they'll walk away from it.

As much as I'd like a 'fun' family car, I'm only 1 part of the 'family' and we all need to be happy, comfortable and safe in it. No point dad having a really nice drive if the kids are complaining about the back seat (and they were before the sensible SUV).

The 'fun' car arrives next week. No back seat. Only a single terrified passenger allowed, and apparently it'll be raining on the day I go get it, so that'll be extra fun...

Stu.

jstanovic · 02-01-2022, 03:03 AM

Mazda 6 MPS.

May struggle to get under 100,000km and they are 4wd but should meet your other requirements.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/mazda/6/mps-badge/

Poetic Justice · 05-01-2022, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I wonder when ex Victoria Police BMW 530D's will be hitting the used car market and how much they'll go for?

Speaking of which BMW 535D is appearing within your budget if you don't mind playing Russian roulette with 3 in the chamber.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...SE-AD-11928109

It's auto though but it exceeds your fuel economy requirements by a mile and with 600nm torque I reckon it'll rip mad skids - 220KW/600NM and sub 8L/100km.

It's also pre DPF/SCR bull****.

Edit: Appears to be Euro V - may have DPF

I was watching the cop BMWs go through auction at Pickles yesterday at high $40s

Franco Cozzo · 05-01-2022, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mont5.0

2nd hand Kia ftw. plobably end up with 3/4 of the warranty as well.

I've got a fetish for a black Kia Carnival on 17" interceptors, gangsta as.

Family - tick
Enthusiast - not so much

SSVPom · 05-01-2022, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I wonder when ex Victoria Police BMW 530D's will be hitting the used car market and how much they'll go for?

Speaking of which BMW 535D is appearing within your budget if you don't mind playing Russian roulette with 3 in the chamber.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...SE-AD-11928109

It's auto though but it exceeds your fuel economy requirements by a mile and with 600nm torque I reckon it'll rip mad skids - 220KW/600NM and sub 8L/100km.

It's also pre DPF/SCR bull****.

Edit: Appears to be Euro V - may have DPF

A few 2018 onwards ex-HWP 530d M Sports are on Carsales now, starting from high $40k’s. No sunroof, high kms, fire extinguisher in the boot and usually black wheels are the tell tale.

Sprintey · 06-01-2022, 12:06 AM

2013: 35K XR6 deals

Some noggin: "When our protected industry is gone, we will have cheaper cars"

2021: 35K Yaris

Sprintey · 06-01-2022, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

A little over your $30K limit, but these tick a lot of boxes for me, and the best steering of any car I have ever driven -

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/jaguar/xe/under-40000/

Seconded. Auto only and small back seat, but a RWD that handles and is everyman money now.

Sprintey · 06-01-2022, 12:31 AM

OK so I posted first on the title alone, shot from the hip, and now have read the thread and what Polyal is looking for.

The average/family enthusiast car was a beast evolved in Australia, for in the Olden Days before Wifi we had to spring everything off the same locally made platform, by and large. In the Cretaceous era it was a GS Falcon 500 - an honest car (more comfortable than the Holden in XY form) but optioned up with the wheels, manual stick shift, GT suspension, V8, tacho and those oh so nice stripes. .. There were some pretty good ones to follow - I think of the EBII S XR6 and its descendants as absolutely nailing the brief. Comfortable, roomy, affordable, could take the kids to sport, offered manual but many were auto for the bumper-to-bumper commute - and had some handling nous so Dad (or Mum!) could enjoy a winding country road or some corners - or take the tacho and speedo off the dial like the testers of this car famously did.

I'd suggest go for the latest and best of this kind you can still get your hands on, the manual XR6 or SV6 as late/good condition as you can. And then it will consume the extra L/100 but you will still smile.

Like this:

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...0416361/?Cr=12

You'll pay quite a bit less than 30K so that's a lot of fuel, quite a few years of fuel in fact.

My son bought an auto of this example as his first car, a 2011 limited edition XR6. He loves it. I love it. Taking the ZF and selecting gears on some of the winding roads here is a joy (3rd gear ftw), it can happily put up with congested traffic in town, it's comfortable (the front and back seats on the limited edition, wow). The example above is manual and about 100,000Km less than his, and his is still in great condition. The drivetrain will last. Personally, the non turbo is enough for me.

Last call for boarding, low km examples are leaving from the station about now...

Franco Cozzo · 06-01-2022, 12:45 PM

Everything ends in Falcon/Commodore or Territory regardless how it starts

I'm putting a vote in for an Ecoboost Falcon, its the redheaded stepchild of the Falcon range and thus, cheap(er).

.:4:. · 06-01-2022, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Everything ends in Falcon/Commodore or Territory regardless how it starts

I'm putting a vote in for an Ecoboost Falcon, its the redheaded stepchild of the Falcon range and thus, cheap(er).

I had the ginger stepchild falcon a few years back, so had a 2012 g6 2L, got it in 2014 for 19k with 23k on the clock. So i reckon that was a good deal at the time. Theres no real noticeable difference compared to my bf on the street, bar they dont sound like a barra. Flooring it my butt dyno couldnt tell a difference.

Franco Cozzo · 06-01-2022, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .:4:.

I had the ginger stepchild falcon a few years back, so had a 2012 g6 2L, got it in 2014 for 19k with 23k on the clock. So i reckon that was a good deal at the time. Theres no real noticeable difference compared to my bf on the street, bar they dont sound like a barra. Flooring it my butt dyno couldnt tell a difference.

Value for spondoolies

Also forced induction is always better if you want to have a play.

Sprintey · 06-01-2022, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Everything ends in Falcon/Commodore or Territory regardless how it starts

Well, this is Australian Ford Forums and they are Australian and two of them Fords.

Going further, on a worldwide scale the bang for buck - and performance bang for buck - they offered was phenomenal.

**Polyal** · 06-01-2022, 10:29 PM

OK so some small updates. I still dont know why but the Euro R has me now booking a test drive at the end of the month, I ran out of time the other week.

Otherwise I have done some internet research and it seems the FA20 WRX (>2015) actually doesnt drink like a fish, and there are plenty with <70,000kms for $35k or less.

So, I am no closer, but got a few things on over the next week so nothing will happen to the end of the month.

I do love the falcon, and I have thought about the romance of owning even a FGX XR6 NA manual as the "last" of its type but like others here I have dont the I6 and unless its I6T I dont know if I would go back.

One thing is for sure though, as soon as I save a car on carsales they are generally gone within a week which doesnt help with price negations!

The comments are interesting so thanks thus far, im not keen on an ecoboost falcon, I ranted about it back in the day but they should have popped that 2.7 TDi in the falcon instead.

If I go auto then it will be large displacement TDI, so 5 series, A6, or even a Chrysler 300. The latter saw examples with 50,000-80,000kms go for $25k which is alot of car for the coin (second gen)....but I am still chasing those manual feels.