TDCI Pinging / Detonation

karma_33 · 09-04-2011, 09:23 AM

Hi all, just wondering if anyone has had trouble with their Mondeo " pinging ".
I understand that diesel injectors make a ticking and the engines are not the quietest, but .....

When at highway speed, light throttle applications cause a tinkle / pinging sound, and when accelerating from low revs, leaving the lights or exiting the shops there is a quite a severe knocking sound, and some stumbling / missing, after 2200 rpm it is smooth and quiet.

Ford service took it for a drive and the performed a particle filter burnoff procedure, it dosen't seem to be any better though, will have to take it back....

karma_33 · 09-04-2011, 10:28 AM

EDIT : Sorry, should have included this, It's a 2011 MC Titanium with 5500 kms.

burnz · 09-04-2011, 10:50 AM

borrow another diesel of someone, diesel run on pinging so to speak..
compare it to yours then make a judgement..

apstar · 09-04-2011, 02:44 PM

What brand fuel are you using! maybe change it to another

apstar

Dave_Mc · 09-04-2011, 03:00 PM

My MC Titanium Hatch has been back at the dealer for the better part of a week while they try to get to the bottom of the same problem! As you mention, it is a 'tapping' or 'pinging' noise under acceleration/low revs. Dealer initially recommended I try a different fuel, which I did (Is there a big difference in diesel fuels?). The problem has only seemed to have gotten worse!

The dealer called me yesterday, their techs are stumped and have had to arrange for a specialist technician from Ford HQ look at the car on Monday! They also mentioned they tried to contact Ford in Europe to see if any similar problems have occurred, but they have had no such reports. I'll advise anything I hear back from my dealer on Monday.

gh172 · 09-04-2011, 03:32 PM

I have also heard a similar sound though not too noticeable . Tried using the caltex Vortex diesel and it seemed to be a little less noticeable. I just assumed it was typical of a diesel sound having never owned a diesel before. When we took the car in for the 3k service we mentioned it to the dealer as its really been annoying my wife. They came back with the predictable response of saying that the car was running and sounding as it should. My biggest gripe is with the transmission. It holds on to gears way too long, especially on light acceleration. It's a real contrast to my GTI. I have a DSG transmission and it tends to upchange early so as to try to optimize fuel economy . I've now found myself using the manual mode on the mondeo so I can upchange when it feels like it should. Also feels a lot smoother. Don't remember our test drive being like this. Also mentioned this to the dealer with the same response. I'll be taking the car elsewhere for the 15k service. Really love the car but the drive is slightly spoiled by the transmission.

apstar · 09-04-2011, 04:43 PM

Don't forget its an adaptive gearbox and may still be learning you driving style had a similar problem when I took it in for a 30K service they updated the firmware and reset my auto settings, same thing holding gears much higher e.g. 6th gear engaged spot on at 60Km/h now its almost 70km/h after 3 weeks its now coming back to the original setting wish Ford had the gears displaying on the display in auto D1 D2 etc

apstar

redpoptop · 09-04-2011, 05:21 PM

Same Pinging / Detonation problem with my MC 2011 Titanium TDCI wagon,
with only 1,330 Ks.

I will ask the dealer to have a look at this matter when it has its 3000 Ks check.

Al when driveing at 50Ks the power shift auto keeps moveing up and down as it it can not find the gear.

7summit7 · 09-04-2011, 06:03 PM

I Also Have noticed this Pinging Sound. I have been using Vortex diesel about to try Shell too see how it goes.

I does seem to be variable though sometimes there sometimes not.

I have 2500k on the clock and intend to discuss it with the dealer on the first service.

Cheers

Mark

gh172 · 09-04-2011, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apstar

Don't forget its an adaptive gearbox and may still be learning you driving style had a similar problem when I took it in for a 30K service they updated the firmware and reset my auto settings, same thing holding gears much higher e.g. 6th gear engaged spot on at 60Km/h now its almost 70km/h after 3 weeks its now coming back to the original setting wish Ford had the gears displaying on the display in auto D1 D2 etc

apstar

Thanks for the reply. I am aware that it is an adaptive gearbox, as is my GTI. Unfortunately in this case the gearbox has been this way since new and seems to be getting worse.

burnz · 09-04-2011, 11:55 PM

you know i have to wonder are ford setting the valve clearance cold??
maybe be they should do it hot..

ask your dealer to check when hot..

karma_33 · 10-04-2011, 10:02 AM

Thanks for the replies, both good and bad to know I am not the only one.

I understand that diesel engines are generally noisier than petrol, but the tinkle sound / stumble / missing is a real concern.

I have heard these sounds before in pertrol engines, it was a timing problem, caused all sorts of issues including a cracked piston.

We generally use Caltex Vortex diesel, but there is a BP a bit further up the road, will try them next.

I'll be taking the car back to Ford tomorrow.

apstar · 10-04-2011, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karma_33

but there is a BP a bit further up the road, will try them next.

I'll be taking the car back to Ford tomorrow.

BP Ultimate Diesel has its own site with station outlets on Google maps not all BP stations carry it

apstar

Batman105E · 11-04-2011, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karma_33

Hi all, just wondering if anyone has had trouble with their Mondeo " pinging ".
I understand that diesel injectors make a ticking and the engines are not the quietest, but .....

When at highway speed, light throttle applications cause a tinkle / pinging sound, and when accelerating from low revs, leaving the lights or exiting the shops there is a quite a severe knocking sound, and some stumbling / missing, after 2200 rpm it is smooth and quiet.

Ford service took it for a drive and the performed a particle filter burnoff procedure, it dosen't seem to be any better though, will have to take it back....

My Mondeo doesn't have this issue but I know that D4D Hiluxes have had this issue for ages... particularly bad when the engine is cold or at times under light load and small throttle appilcations.

There are a few things that Toyota do to fix the issue including reflash of the engine computer module, changing fuel injectors and so on. Sometimes with success other times without. This information comes from a forum on the D4D Hilux that I frequent. It is very common and frustrating for the owners but apparently does no damage to the engine...

Maybe it could be a tune issue with the new model.

Ask them to reflash the engine control module. If that fails ask them to check the injectors and see if they are ok.

Dave_Mc · 13-04-2011, 11:57 AM

Well I picked my car up from the dealer on Tue. The conclusion of the specialist was there is nothing physically wrong with the car. Apparently the issue is due to the ECM and its programming for the fuel injection system. The service manager has put in a request for Ford Europe to provide an update to the firmware, which they believe will fix the issue. This has also been requested for a few other MC Titaniums they have.

The service manger couldn't provide a timeframe for a fix, so we just have to suffer with the noise. I'm not really happy, as my new car (with only 3000ks) sounds dreadful, but there doesn't appear to be much else that can be done in the short term!

karma_33 · 15-04-2011, 02:23 PM

The service manager has put in a request for Ford Europe to provide an update to the firmware, which they believe will fix the issue. This has also been requested for a few other MC Titaniums they have.

Thanks Dave, Just wondering if you could let me know which dealer you have been going to, just want to be able to pass the info on to my dealer if they want to know.

I took mine back and they did a full diagnostic check, and found nothing physically wrong, but they agree there is a "detonation like noise"

I'm nearly read for another tank of fuel, so will try BP Ultimate this time and see if it is any better.

Will be interesting to see how this all pans out

Brent L · 17-04-2011, 09:59 AM

I’ve got the same problem with my Dec 2010 build MC Titanium TDCI wagon of 2 weeks, a large if not dangerous flat spot it appears when you are rolling along at low speed and then take off again, like when you don’t have to come to a complete stop at a roundabout or at a giveway sign and it happens before turbo lag would kick in, the car just momentarily stops.

It also pings it's head off all day, sounds like it has an exhaust leak at idle (when you are standing at the front of the car**, and even worse it sounds like a sick rattly old tractor just off idle, just as you take off.

The Powershift auto wants to be as close as possible to sixth gear at any speed, so at 60 kays an hour on a flat road the car is shuddering along the road under load with the engine is doing 1300 RPM, most of the time at low speeds it does not have a clue what gear wants, a couple of times it has just refused to change gear.

Yet when to hustle the car along and have some fun it is a sensational engine and gearbox package.

I have just spent 3 years in an MA TDCI so I know how they sound, how they go, what turbo lag is and when it appears etc, I loved every klm of it so I bought this one based on the experiences of the last 3 years. Just what Ford wanted me to do.

My dealer acknowledges these are problems with the MC diesel and said I’m not the first and probably will not be the last and they intend to contact Ford about it, if enough Ford dealers complain maybe something may be done. Hopefully it’s just a case of recalibrating the engine and gearbox mapping with new software.

Unfortunately for Ford I know I have stopped the purchase of 3 Titanium diesels because of these issue’s after letting them have a drive and I’ve seen the puzzled looks on the faces of several “possible buyers” as I rattle, oops I mean idle my way around shopping centre carparks.

This car has the potential to be the perfect car just like my old MA so fingers crossed something can be done.

3Toed · 17-04-2011, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent L

I’ve got the same problem with my Dec 2010 build MC Titanium TDCI wagon of 2 weeks, a large if not dangerous flat spot it appears when you are rolling along at low speed and then take off again, like when you don’t have to come to a complete stop at a roundabout or at a giveway sign and it happens before turbo lag would kick in, the car just momentarily stops.

Same with my month old Nov 2010 build MC TDCi hatch. Being a diesel virgin before this I thought it is just turbo lag and/or the gearbox thinking I want to come to a stop. I'll mention it at the 3000km service and see what they say.

As for detonation, not sure if mine does it (again, first time diesel owner) as I just expect it to sound like a cement mixer full of gravel.

I've been using 7-Eleven diesel so I'll try some BP when I next fill up to see if there's any difference.

burnz · 17-04-2011, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3Toed

Same with my month old Nov 2010 build MC TDCi hatch. Being a diesel virgin before this I thought it is just turbo lag and/or the gearbox thinking I want to come to a stop. I'll mention it at the 3000km service and see what they say.

As for detonation, not sure if mine does it (again, first time diesel owner) as I just expect it to sound like a cement mixer full of gravel.

I've been using 7-Eleven diesel so I'll try some BP when I next fill up to see if there's any difference.

bahwah it cant be that bad

NZ XR6 · 19-04-2011, 05:48 PM

Sorry to hear about your problems. Makes me even more pleased with my runout MB TDCi.

I drove a Passat diesel in the UK last year that also engaged 6th at about 60 km/h, which was not at all pleasant when driving in a 40 mph speed zone. It took a reasonable prod to make it change down, and was back in 6th as soon as you eased the accelerator. I tried Sport mode, but that held the gears too long, so I finally gave up and used manual mode.

The main performance figure in Europe seems to be g/km of CO2, and I think all the manufacturers are tuning their cars for economy at the expense of driveability.

ian b · 20-04-2011, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

The main performance figure in Europe seems to be g/km of CO2, and I think all the manufacturers are tuning their cars for economy at the expense of driveability.

UK company car tax rates (and I think also increased road tax for higher emissions came in after I left) is determined by CO2 emissions so the manufacturers are looking to increase market by keeping CO2 as low as possible.

The tax system as it works effectively reduces the amount you can earn pre-tax as the CO2 produced by your company supplied car increases.

The same tax system over here would I suspect see the death of the Falcon/Commodore in favour of the lower CO2 euro/asian models. (The Ford website didn't appear to include this type of information so only an assumption that the 3 and 4l engines pump out more CO2 than their imported rivals.)

The new Euro emission regs are also having an impact on the CO2 levels(the demise of the Volvo T5 unit in the XR5 is an example) that cars are allowed to produce when sold in Europe.

NZ XR6 · 20-04-2011, 05:05 AM

A FG Falcon XT is 236 g/km of CO2. The MC Mondeo TDCi is 149 g/km and the Ecoboost 169 g/km (all power outputs).

I'd expect that the Ecoboost Falcon will be similar to the Mondeo as it will lose a lot of weight when the cast iron 6 and auto are replaced.

The diesel Fiesta is 107 g/km!

Dusty1 · 22-04-2011, 02:05 PM

My dealer told me there is some Eco mode accessable through the HMI. Perhaps it is activated from the factory or has bee inadvertently been turned on?

I know what I'd be like, rooting around in there, turning something on or off and then forgetting what I'd done.

Mickmelb · 23-04-2011, 02:51 PM

The Eco mode is 1 of those options that you will use once and never look at again. It just tells you how economical your driving is it doesn't actually do anything other than give you a rating. It told me im an eco champion and had a little picture of a cup so not very exciting.

Dusty1 · 23-04-2011, 08:18 PM

A cup? Lucky you Mick!
Bet that made your day.
What do you get if you give it a bootful?

Menai Mark · 26-04-2011, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karma_33

Hi all, just wondering if anyone has had trouble with their Mondeo " pinging ".
I understand that diesel injectors make a ticking and the engines are not the quietest, but .....

Hi All. I too had this problem with my MC Mondy sounding like a tractor on start up and pinging at low to mid revs. It's now all but gone.

At the 3k service Ford dealer gave the usual crap - 'try different diesel', 'had it on the computer and it looks fine' yadda yadda yadda. I'm now in Adelaide after driving open highway from Sydney and it's running a whole heap better. The tappet noise is really only on start up and low revs, and pinging is all but gone. Travelled nearly 5k since new. I'll be back in Sydney over the weekend and will see how it is then. Plus also once I get back into my start stop drive into work whether the problem comes back. It may be that the engines need time to settle down and/or a long open highway drive. Lets hope this is the case. I'll provide an update in a few weeks.
(BTW <6.8L/100kms for the 1400ks from Sydney to Adelaide - happy with that.)

Menai Mark · 03-05-2011, 03:51 PM

**Update to previous post** Back in Sydney now. The mondy purred like a kitten all the way back from Adelaide. Sat on 105 - 115k's all the way. No pinging. Sydney start / stop traffic and pinging has now returned, although not as bad as previously. Usually happens at low revs under 2k and under initial acceleration. I had a loan MB LX Mondeo the other week and the TDCi on that didn't exibit any of the symptons described in this thread. They've obviously made a change to the engine for the MC, probably something to do with the timing, but other than sounding more like a diesel, doesn't seem to have affected the performance (in my POV anyway.)
BTW best economy on trip - 6.11L/100k's

Travelled 950k's Adelaide to Wagga and still had 12 litres left! Used cruise control most of the way and stuck to 5k's over.

msford · 04-05-2011, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menai Mark

Sydney start / stop traffic and pinging has now returned, although not as bad as previously. Usually happens at low revs under 2k and under initial acceleration.

I've never owned a diesel before nor am I very knowledgable on mechanics so I'm not sure if my enging is pinging or not but your description here sounds similar to my car, but the sound (if any) seems fairly quiet to my ears so I just assumed it was normal diesel sound. That is one thing I've noticed compared with petrol cars; that the engine constantly revs much lower, ie under 2k, especially in traffic. A friend told me that's normal for diesel, but I don't know how expert his comment was. Otherwise, on open road and freeways; it purrs, as far as I can tell.

Basically, my question is; how do I tell if it's pinging or not? I've already done the 3000km check (I've driven 5000) and nothing was mentioned by the dealer so I assume everything's ok.

NZ XR6 · 04-05-2011, 09:13 PM

Be aware that not all diesel fuel is the same. The diesel equivalent of octane is cetane number (CN), which is a measure of how quickly the fuel burns. The CN of Australian diesel is lower than in Europe, which may have something to do with the "pinging". Ultimate diesel has an additive to improve CN, and my engine is definitely quieter running on Ultimate than Gull diesel.

Also, a diesel engine is noisy until it warms up. I usually let mine idle for a minute or two when it's cold until I drive it , and take it easy until the temp gauge comes up.

gh172 · 05-05-2011, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

Be aware that not all diesel fuel is the same. The diesel equivalent of octane is cetane number (CN), which is a measure of how quickly the fuel burns. The CN of Australian diesel is lower than in Europe, which may have something to do with the "pinging". Ultimate diesel has an additive to improve CN, and my engine is definitely quieter running on Ultimate than Gull diesel.

Also, a diesel engine is noisy until it warms up. I usually let mine idle for a minute or two when it's cold until I drive it , and take it easy until the temp gauge comes up.

Would caltex vortex be basically the same as BP Ultimate?