Ford strike back with police cars - Page 3

Road_Warrior · 12-03-2010, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

I've seen pretty good evidence of this being Taurus based and that they have spawned 2 versions of it off Taurus platform so far.

We'll see.

LWB/SWB? The new Exploder is D3 based too, so it may not necessarily be a sedan either...

JPFS1 · 12-03-2010, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

LWB/SWB? The new Exploder is D3 based too, so it may not necessarily be a sedan either...

2 variants meaning the P.I and a LWB (limo is how they described it?)

Road_Warrior · 12-03-2010, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

2 variants meaning the P.I and a LWB (limo is how they described it?)

Limo huh, that's interesting. Sounds like a Town Car replacement. Or it could be a LWB cop car - they will need a little bit more wheelbase to accommodate the standard size prisoner partition in the back seat area.

P.S., the official reveal site is here:

http://www.fordpoliceinterceptorreveal.com/

fou_bleu · 12-03-2010, 05:10 PM

Well... who feels like getting up at 3:30am to watch the unveiling?! :P Not me! Lol

Anyways, Falcon would be nice, but look at the $$$ side of things... too expensive - and the time constraints as mentioned.

They'd have to have been working on it for moths now if it were to be production ready for late this year... Although, there was that GT-E spotted in Michigan (I think) the other day... (Probably just Coyote evaluation tests though).

chevypower · 12-03-2010, 05:39 PM

Will it be body-on-frame like the Crown Vic? They do use these cars to nudge other cars, and cause spin-outs just like in the movies. Maybe a sedan will be built on the F-150 platform? 6.2L V8 Boss engine with EcoBoost added? RWD or AWD?

JPFS1 · 12-03-2010, 05:47 PM

How often do they use the PITT? manoeuvre and is it viable to engineer the car to be able to handle it if those manoeuvre's are not very frequent?

As I said, Ford are saying to certain groups that they will use Taurus. If PITT is important to them (but I suspect general durability is more important) then they can increase rigidity and strength in certain areas to achieve this.

Brazen · 12-03-2010, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

How often do they use the PITT? manoeuvre and is it viable to engineer the car to be able to handle it if those manoeuvre's are not very frequent?

As I said, Ford are saying to certain groups that they will use Taurus. If PITT is important to them (but I suspect general durability is more important) then they can increase rigidity and strength in certain areas to achieve this.

I always thought the factory bull bars on the Commodore and Falcon could be transplanted to any US police export version to add some strength in doing PITT moves, although the Falcon no longer has a factory bull bar only the Commodore.

I reckon the new Interceptor will just be a Taurus with heavy duty suspension, bigger alternator etc.

geckoGT · 12-03-2010, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

hard to fathom the falcon or commy being "too small".

To be able to understand this you need to understand the differences between the way australian and US police operate. Australian police do not transport many "customers" in their sedans as they usually call out a paddy wagon (hilux with the tupper ware plastic box on the back). The US tend to transport more frequently with their sedans and therefore require more leg room.

Now, yes the falcon may have sufficient leg room for family duties, but how many families fit out their car with a big heavy metal and perspex safety barrier between the front and rear seats. Once these shields are fitted in a commodore or falcon sized sedan there really is not enough room for a rear passenger, particularly one in handcuffs. Added to the the rear seat has to be far enough away from the protection barrier to afford crash safety, something that can not be done without a LWB sedan. That is why they need the extra leg room of the LWB such as statesman offers. Australian police get around this by the frequent use of paddy wagons.

They also require a particularly large boot due to the amount of equipment even GD coppers carry. Have a look some time in the boot of an aussie cop car and you will see what I mean. The amount of equipment that they carry and the way it needs to be carried (for example the body armour is carried on a special shelf so access is never restricted) results in the falcon and commodore being very tight in terms of boot space.

I can also completely understand the comment about the stock falcon brakes. I have driven a falcon under lights and sirens conditions and it was woeful. Yes the power was good, the handling was ok but the brakes were terrible, heat fade comes in way too early. Our Mercedes Sprinters inspire more confidence in their braking ability. In QLD Ambulance most of the falcons have been moved from Station officer duties (who respond lights and sirens frequently) and moved to Clinical Support Officer (education) duties, as these officers do not respond lights and sirens very often.

I can also understand the utility belt issue (we wear them too, although we have less on them than cops do). On my belt I have a dangerous drug pouch, pager, stethescope/trauma shears/small torch pouch, mag light 3 cell torch, rescue tool and UHF radio. All these items make getting in and out of, and sitting in a sedan difficult and often painful. The commodore is bad, the new forrester is a little worse and the falcon, well I have to take the damn thing off for the falcon (the torch just about breaks ribs and it is only a 3 cell). Cops do not have the luxury of taking their belts of due to weapon security.

By the way, someone said that falcons are not used as HWP in australia and only FPV models are. Not quite true, QLD has a number of XR8 and XR6T that they use in HWP.

Back on topic, considering the promise of "engineered and made in the US", plus the lack of a falcon in LWB form, it will have to be a LWB US platform such as a modified Taurus. It will be interesting to see what Dearborn puts out.

geckoGT · 12-03-2010, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

How often do they use the PITT? manoeuvre and is it viable to engineer the car to be able to handle it if those manoeuvre's are not very frequent?

As I said, Ford are saying to certain groups that they will use Taurus. If PITT is important to them (but I suspect general durability is more important) then they can increase rigidity and strength in certain areas to achieve this.

If the PITT maneuver is to remain authorised, the vehicle must be built allow its use safely, this would be mandated by the workplace safety legislation in the US that is applicable to law enforcement agencies.

Road_Warrior · 12-03-2010, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

How often do they use the PITT? manoeuvre and is it viable to engineer the car to be able to handle it if those manoeuvre's are not very frequent?

As I said, Ford are saying to certain groups that they will use Taurus. If PITT is important to them (but I suspect general durability is more important) then they can increase rigidity and strength in certain areas to achieve this.

They cynic in me suggests that the yanks use it every 5 seconds, along with shooting people's tyres out (not tires), but I would suggest that PITT is only used on an authorisation-only basis and that mechanical and physical durability is much more important, as you suggested.

Whether the Toreass based car with its transverse powertrain can handle other more common aspects of HD police work, such as mounting kerbs and median strips at speed, idling for hours on end after a thrashing in stinking heat, and driving on grassed/unsealed/rough highway medians at 60mph, is another question entirely.

EDIT: I've just had a thought. If this LWB variant is what I think it is, then this is effectively a cancellation for one of the proposed GRWD variants and another nail in the post-2015 Falcon's RWD coffin.

Road_Warrior · 12-03-2010, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Inside, nearly 90 percent of the interior has been designed specifically to meet the unique needs of law enforcement customers including a column shifter, customized seats to accommodate officer's utility belts and a media center to accommodate electronic accessories. (3/12/2010)

That's a Taurus steering wheel and interior.

E: Why isnt the pic working >:-(

**Fordman1** · 12-03-2010, 08:37 PM

Here it is...

Taurus !

Chilliman · 12-03-2010, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

EDIT: I've just had a thought. If this LWB variant is what I think it is, then this is effectively a cancellation for one of the proposed GRWD variants and another nail in the post-2015 Falcon's RWD coffin.

Oh God I hope not

:

JPFS1 · 12-03-2010, 09:57 PM

Franco Cozzo · 12-03-2010, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Holy Jesus thats a load of awesome.

I accidentally my pants.

G6E Turbo 2 · 12-03-2010, 10:05 PM

This maybe a really dumb question , as i did not read every post on this thread

Did anyone see the Advert on TV about the Commondore Police car being built as standard equipment in australia with all the Tech stuff built in for them off the shelf ??

Why the hell are Ford not doing this

Ford seams to be letting lots of opportunities pass to their competitors without a fight including Wagons, Fleets and now cop cars

Bloody hell !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Road_Warrior · 12-03-2010, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Photoshop.

Ford wouldnt be dumb enough to make a povvo pack PI look the same as a $35,000USD Taurus SHO.

Would they?

Guys?

JPFS1 · 12-03-2010, 10:12 PM

Well it's come from ford media site... apparently.

sxckevo · 12-03-2010, 10:14 PM

sorry does'nt do it for me boys, hope thats a photoshop

:

Road_Warrior · 12-03-2010, 10:16 PM

If that image is indeed the Taurus PI then Ford has just given all its high-end Taurus and Taurus SHO buyers the middle finger.

EDIT: it is.

jpd80 · 12-03-2010, 10:52 PM

I'm glad our Falcon didn't suffer this fate.

I'd much rather Ford pursue Ecoboost I-4 and V6 diesel variants of
Falcon/Territory into Europe, Asia and anywhere except the USA.

Make the Falcon global outside of North America and relegate Taurus to a domestic US platform

Falc'man · 12-03-2010, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Well it's come from ford media site... apparently.

Judging by the background (same as what's shown in the official link) I'd be certain it is.

geckoGT · 12-03-2010, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

If that image is indeed the Taurus PI then Ford has just given all its high-end Taurus and Taurus SHO buyers the middle finger.

EDIT: it is.

Like FPV did to their buyers, money talks.

Road_Warrior · 12-03-2010, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Judging by the background (same as what's shown in the official link) I'd be certain it is.

About half an hour ago I got into that Ford media website (wieck?) via a backdoor and I can confirm that those pics are in there. So the new Ford PI is definitely a Toreass.

The Caprice PPV is going to kill it.

Paxton · 12-03-2010, 11:43 PM

Holden don't stand a chance. Let's not forget the stink the UAW will kick up if Holden sends hundreds of thousands of Police cars over to the US. I think the Taurus, if done properly, will allow Ford a better look in than the Caprice will.

Here's hoping that the Taurus has a longer wheel base than the Statesman does.

jpd80 · 13-03-2010, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

Holden don't stand a chance. Let's not forget the stink the UAW will kick up if Holden sends hundreds of thousands of Police cars over to the US. I think the Taurus, if done properly, will allow Ford a better look in than the Caprice will.

Here's hoping that the Taurus has a longer wheel base than the Statesman does.

The UAW won't say a peep, they are a spent force willing to take whatever they can get.
Their numbers at Ford have been reduced to half what they were in 2006 and GM aren't far behind...

The real ruckus will come from police departments who are encouraged to buy US or North American product.
If GM are smart, they will add a line at Oshawa and build the Caprice there avoiding negative press...

I'm prepared to keep an open mind on the Taurus until I see what they're offering
but like most here, I think Ford greatly underestimated the grass roots support PDs have for RWD,
the cars drive differently in high speed chases and cornering, imagine having a mixed fleet, there would
be serious problems with officers switching between vehicles with different handling characteristics.

Falc'man · 13-03-2010, 02:45 AM

A bit off topic but meh.

Quote:

http://www.thenewsherald.com/article...b414137336.txt

Ohio XB · 13-03-2010, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

Holden don't stand a chance. Let's not forget the stink the UAW will kick up if Holden sends hundreds of thousands of Police cars over to the US. I think the Taurus, if done properly, will allow Ford a better look in than the Caprice will.

Here's hoping that the Taurus has a longer wheel base than the Statesman does.

The Holden does not pass the 75-MPH rear impact rating. The Crown Vic has an optional rear collision safety package available that meets the rating, and now the Taurus Interceptor is built with the feature.

Here's an article about the Taurus Interceptor with actual pictures.
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/12/p...ford-unveiled/

It's too long to copy and paste but here are some highlights, and pretty significant I must say...

As such, the unibody structure of the Police Interceptor has been upgraded to meet twice the body durability requirements of the Crown Vic model, which should help alleviate some of the concerns of police agencies.

Safety is job 1 for police cars and Ford has developed the new Police Interceptor to withstand a 75-mile-per-hour rear collision. Fields claimed the car is the first in the industry to meet this standard. The Police Interceptor also retains all of the standard electronic stability and roll stability control systems featured in the Taurus. The systems, however, have been re-calibrated to meet the needs of police use

The Police Interceptor's brakes also have 60 percent more swept area than a standard Taurus and 20 percent more thermal mass to help resist fade.

The transmission shifter has also been moved from the console to the steering column to make room for all the gear that today's officers require be mounted in the center. Ford has even maintained the same nine-inch width between the seats to allow existing equipment to be mounted from older Crown Vic Interceptors.

One thing I know about is the Ford Police Advisory Board that Ford created about a year and a half ago comprised of many Police Chiefs and other top officers from across the country in order to get their input in developing the new Interceptor as well as having them test drive it and recommend changes.

I know the Crown Vic has many more welds in the Police version than the regular version. I am sure the Taurus is also bolstered with more welds and it already uses a lot of high strength steel too.

Steve

P.S. - Contrary to what many people believe, GM and Ford run their companies. The UAW fights for fair worker treatment. The UAW does not make manufacturing decisions for the company, nor do they have the power to do so.

Ghiadude · 13-03-2010, 09:08 AM

So - what are the implications of this decision to FoA ? When is the new taurus due?

Dr Smith · 13-03-2010, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

About half an hour ago I got into that Ford media website (wieck?) via a backdoor and I can confirm that those pics are in there. So the new Ford PI is definitely a Toreass.

The Caprice PPV is going to kill it.

Having watched the full video I'm not sure of that. The huge array of standard features available and allowance for aftermarket equipment installations is amazing.

Plus just a thought to those that think this might degrade the buyers of the luxury versions, do you think Holden SS buyers feel cheated when they see local interceptors on the road? In fact a remember a past Holden Marketing chief saying a Holden police car was a far more positive image leader then a taxi.

PS. I know I'd love the 8" kerb durability test on our G6ET so that I don't fret when my wife heads off to work, lol.