Petrol Price crisis...... - Page 64

**kypez** · 06-07-2022, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The USA had a good relationship with the Saudi's. Until Biden called them murders for killing that journo. Justified, but they won't see it that way and will screw him by not increasing oil supply. He should know not to **** off people who can make life difficult for him.

Apparently he will go over there next week to beg for more oil supply, and they will laugh at his request. No one in the oil industry is going to lift a finger to help someone hell bent on destroying them. High oil prices are a win win for them. They get to reap the profits, all while their enemy is being slaughtered in the polls by americans losing their minds over the price of gas.

Not to mention the Saudi military is chock full of the latest US weaponry they give them. The USA sends billions of dollars of stuff over there, because they use them as the balance of power in the middle east.

Biden doesn't want more oil. He's quite happy with the high oil prices because he wants to see a transition to EVs and at a faster rate. He isn't going to beg them for cheaper oil.

**kypez** · 06-07-2022, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PooDog

Yep it's an interesting balance of greed and self preservation.....there's a lot of EV,s coming out in the next year most pretty pricey , these new BYD full EV,s out of China hitting our shores soon don't look to bad and are priced competitively.....it will be interesting to see whether there will be a time when they realize they're losing customers.....oil prices could go the other way?.....who knows, then there's only the greenie governments left to battle with

As much as I hate China and all things from there, the EVs they are producing are pretty good and BYD have a lot of experience in the space for many years now.

And getting on more EVs will see us remove this dependency. I didn't want to bring EVs into this discussion cause it always ends badly.

@Bossxr8, are these fuel prices enough to get Ford Aus to fast track a Ranger Lightning? Though, looking at Hilux hitting almost 8000 sales for a month with Ranger ramping, it seems the high fuel prices aren't hurting this segment all that much.

GASWAGON · 06-07-2022, 04:14 PM

Not many servos around Melbourne below 91 @$2.39 anymore.

I bloody hope its only temporary!

Bossxr8 · 06-07-2022, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PooDog

Yep it's an interesting balance of greed and self preservation.....there's a lot of EV,s coming out in the next year most pretty pricey , these new BYD full EV,s out of China hitting our shores soon don't look to bad and are priced competitively.....it will be interesting to see whether there will be a time when they realize they're losing customers.....oil prices could go the other way?.....who knows, then there's only the greenie governments left to battle with

Oil prices might drop if a global recession kicks in. I can't see it not happening at this point. Looks like oil has come down a bit in the last few days.

But who knows at this point, it could go either way. They must have some sort of strategy on how they are going to balance it, keeping profits up but without cutting themselves off at the knees.

But it's not just transport that uses oil, it's used in so many other things that it's still going to be needed for a very long time to come.

Franco Cozzo · 06-07-2022, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

@Bossxr8, are these fuel prices enough to get Ford Aus to fast track a Ranger Lightning? Though, looking at Hilux hitting almost 8000 sales for a month with Ranger ramping, it seems the high fuel prices aren't hurting this segment all that much.

That whole ute segment, the thing is tax incentives, business requirements, doesn't matter what fuel costs you'll always sell 4x2/4x4 utes to fleets or things like the Ranger Raptor for supervisors, business owners or just private buyers who want a 'premium ute' that can chop ****s at the lights and on the strip that happens to be a convenient car to have because you can put the family in it, as well as put some stuff in the tub.

I reckon you're on the money about a Ranger Lightning, perfect storm at the moment to push a business case for it but the problem is how slow the whole corporate juggernaut responds to market shifts and opportunities that open and close.

By the time the conversation happens in the board room for the people who call the shots where the money gets spent, it'll probably be 18-24 months time from fuel prices being $2.40/L for 91.

Itsme · 06-07-2022, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PooDog

You've got to wonder though the longer oil producing countries continue with these inflated prices the more pressure they put on people to buy EV,s and the more incentive for manufacturers to develop more EV,s and each time someone buys an EV that's a customer lost for good ......they're in effect sh#tting in their own nest

The oil producing countries are not sh#itting on themselves in any way; any one who thinks fossil fuels is going to stop in the near future is deluding themselves. Oil, petrol & diesel will be around for many more decades to come.
You have heavy transport, machinery and aviation with no practical solutions.
We still have a vey long way to go before EV's is the norm.

PooDog · 06-07-2022, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

As much as I hate China and all things from there, the EVs they are producing are pretty good and BYD have a lot of experience in the space for many years now.

And getting on more EVs will see us remove this dependency. I didn't want to bring EVs into this discussion cause it always ends badly.

@Bossxr8, are these fuel prices enough to get Ford Aus to fast track a Ranger Lightning? Though, looking at Hilux hitting almost 8000 sales for a month with Ranger ramping, it seems the high fuel prices aren't hurting this segment all that much.

Understand your hesitation to bring EV,s into it ....I haven't been a fan but after recently test driving the the latest Outlander PHEV I must admit it was quite impressive.....feel the same about China......but their battery technology is quite Impressive Elon may have the jump on them but I bet he's looking over his shoulder

PooDog · 06-07-2022, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsme

The oil producing countries are not sh#itting on themselves in any way; any one who thinks fossil fuels is going to stop in the near future is deluding themselves. Oil, petrol & diesel will be around for many more decades to come.
You have heavy transport, machinery and aviation with no practical solutions.
We still have a vey long way to go before EV's is the norm.

Agree ......diesel makes the world go round not petrol and cars but that wasn't my point every time someone switches to EV that's a customer lost and a lot of companies will be morally pushed that way , the longer they keep the pressure on with these prices the more incentive there is once attitudes change and there's a viable solution to ICE trucking the tide will change real quick......whether that's hydrogen who knows ......there's not a lot of love left for oil companies

Wretched · 06-07-2022, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PooDog

Agree ......diesel makes the world go round not petrol and cars but that wasn't my point every time someone switches to EV that's a customer lost and a lot of companies will be morally pushed that way , the longer they keep the pressure on with these prices the more incentive there is once attitudes change and there's a viable solution to ICE trucking the tide will change real quick......whether that's hydrogen who knows ......there's not a lot of love left for oil companies

Hydrogen and Electric buses in Melbourne have started trials.

https://roadsonline.com.au/hydrogen-...lbournes-west/

https://roadsonline.com.au/first-loc...rne-bus-fleet/

**Polyal** · 06-07-2022, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretched

Hydrogen and Electric buses in Melbourne have started trials.

https://roadsonline.com.au/hydrogen-...lbournes-west/

https://roadsonline.com.au/first-loc...rne-bus-fleet/

Mining is also ramping up tests and conversions to alternatives other than diesel so while it wont be next year it certainly wont be decades away.

Franco Cozzo · 06-07-2022, 05:57 PM

Hydrogen is a bit of a joke for cars but it makes sense for applications where you can't have huge battery banks like commercial vehicles where the more the vehicle weighs the less **** you can carry with it.

At least as a hold over until battery technology gets its **** together and has better energy density.

**kypez** · 06-07-2022, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PooDog

Understand your hesitation to bring EV,s into it ....I haven't been a fan but after recently test driving the the latest Outlander PHEV I must admit it was quite impressive.....feel the same about China......but their battery technology is quite Impressive Elon may have the jump on them but I bet he's looking over his shoulder

Oh, I'm a big fan of EVs. I have 3 with a 4 th joining soon. I love them. Just that others on this forum don't and EV discussions seen to antagonise them so I don't usually talk about them as much these days.

I'm waiting for a Ranger Lightning or F150 lightning. Just can't make a case for the others. Not the the cost of fuel is a big problem for me (I've been lucky in life) but I actually really enjoy the drive of EVs over ICE (though I still love my Manual V8s)!

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

hayseed · 07-07-2022, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PooDog

......there's not a lot of love left for oil companies

Didn't realise that there was ever lot of Love for Fuel Companies in the first place...

PooDog · 07-07-2022, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

Oh, I'm a big fan of EVs. I have 3 with a 4 th joining soon. I love them. Just that others on this forum don't and EV discussions seen to antagonise them so I don't usually talk about them as much these days.

I'm waiting for a Ranger Lightning or F150 lightning. Just can't make a case for the others. Not the the cost of fuel is a big problem for me (I've been lucky in life) but I actually really enjoy the drive of EVs over ICE (though I still love my Manual V8s)!

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

Yes I saw the ribbing you got ......I can't say I'm a fan ,the no noise is hard to get used to .....but the cost to run bit is easy to get and the instant torque helps to out weigh the lack of noise .....I can understand why you like them and I'm warming to the idea I think PHEV might suit us (baby steps) trouble is there's a flood of v8,s on lots over here so no one's interested in trading the xr8 over this side of the ditch, my timings not ideal

**Toiler** · 07-07-2022, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Hydrogen is a bit of a joke for cars but it makes sense for applications where you can't have huge battery banks like commercial vehicles where the more the vehicle weighs the less **** you can carry with it.

At least as a hold over until battery technology gets its **** together and has better energy density.

There are technologies coming that just may change that. Some interesting claims made but of course it is a start up selling itself.

https://youtu.be/brEm4mEizns

kevino · 07-07-2022, 10:16 AM

Auckland NZ has electric buses and is ramping up to 150+

From China state owned coy BRRC imported completely built up... no kiwi built body/seats/fittings etc

I travelled on 3 ... smoother quieter faster than a diesel.

Watch out MAN VOLVO MB .... the chinese are going to eat your lunch.

**FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0** · 07-07-2022, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretched

Hydrogen and Electric buses in Melbourne have started trials.

https://roadsonline.com.au/hydrogen-...lbournes-west/

https://roadsonline.com.au/first-loc...rne-bus-fleet/

Ran into a guy the other week out front of my place when his dog escaped from his new place just around the corner from me. Happened to have the garage open and he spied my 'Falcon garage'. He asked "Bit of a Falcon fan, are we?"

Anyway, turns out he used to work for Ford (actually worked with my cousin in the engineering department, and they still stay in touch even though my cous now lives and works in WA).

This guy now works for H2X doing design work for converting buses to run on Hydrogen. He couldn't go into detail, but I do wonder as to why he/they are basing themselves in Sale. Seems like a strange place to be basing your design office. Especially given Sale is not a big place and doesn't have a large bus fleet. Assume it must be state government related.

So, yes there seems to be a lot of work associated with converting the public transport system to run on hydrogen, atm.

Wretched · 07-07-2022, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Ran into a guy the other week out front of my place when his dog escaped from his new place just around the corner from me. Happened to have the garage open and he spied my 'Falcon garage'. He asked "Bit of a Falcon fan, are we?"

Anyway, turns out he used to work for Ford (actually worked with my cousin in the engineering department, and they still stay in touch even though my cous now lives and works in WA).

This guy now works for H2X doing design work for converting buses to run on Hydrogen. He couldn't go into detail, but I do wonder as to why he/they are basing themselves in Sale. Seems like a strange place to be basing your design office. Especially given Sale is not a big place and doesn't have a large bus fleet. Assume it must be state government related.

So, yes there seems to be a lot of work associated with converting the public transport system to run on hydrogen, atm.

Yes, the state government has been decentralising their offices for the past few years, moving some into the regions. I work with a couple of government departments and they have satellite offices in various locations in the east and north.

**Polyal** · 07-07-2022, 10:55 AM

Given the rate of hydrogen plants being announced it seems like a fairly logical next step.

The process will be endless until we work out teleportation...LOL

**fordomatic** · 07-07-2022, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

Oh, I'm a big fan of EVs. I have 3 with a 4 th joining soon. I love them. Just that others on this forum don't and EV discussions seen to antagonise them so I don't usually talk about them as much these days.

I'm waiting for a Ranger Lightning or F150 lightning. Just can't make a case for the others. Not the the cost of fuel is a big problem for me (I've been lucky in life) but I actually really enjoy the drive of EVs over ICE (though I still love my Manual V8s)!

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

99% of the haters haven't actually driven one, or driven one for a good period of time to feel how good they are. This is what annoys me most, "I hate EV's because they make no noise, the government is trying to force me to buy one and i prefer the feel of an ICE vehicle."

When you actually drive one (A Tesla Model 3 for me) you realise that they are amazing vehicles with awesome tech, are super reliable and cheap to run. People need to take EV's for what they are, not what they "think" they are.

I wanted to hate the Tesla so much, I was always an EV hater, then I drove one and if I was in the financial position, I would buy one in a heartbeat. I also still love my manual V8's but im not so one eyed that I don't appreciate a good car when I drive one. It's the way of the future and as soon as people get their heads around that, the easier the transition will be.

Tassie f100 · 07-07-2022, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordomatic

99% of the haters haven't actually driven one, or driven one for a good period of time to feel how good they are. This is what annoys me most, "I hate EV's because they make no noise, the government is trying to force me to buy one and i prefer the feel of an ICE vehicle."

When you actually drive one (A Tesla Model 3 for me) you realise that they are amazing vehicles with awesome tech, are super reliable and cheap to run. People need to take EV's for what they are, not what they "think" they are.

I wanted to hate the Tesla so much, I was always an EV hater, then I drove one and if I was in the financial position, I would buy one in a heartbeat. I also still love my manual V8's but im not so one eyed that I don't appreciate a good car when I drive one. It's the way of the future and as soon as people get their heads around that, the easier the transition will be.

Daughter bought a Hybrid Rav4 drives just like any other car,but uses about 1/4 of the fuel.Thing I like about it is no need for electric plug but still the advantages of EV

T3rminator · 07-07-2022, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordomatic

99% of the haters haven't actually driven one, or driven one for a good period of time to feel how good they are.

Haters gonna hate. I'm a forever V8 fan, so can't see myself owning one in the near future, but have driven a model 3? for a short period, and it was pretty cool. Nice gadgetries and acceleration.

The only thing I hate is being smashed off the line by middle to late aged ladies in cardigans, and then getting the dirty smart alec smile at the next set of lights.

**fordomatic** · 07-07-2022, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Haters gonna hate. I'm a forever V8 fan, so can't see myself owning one in the near future, but have driven a model 3? for a short period, and it was pretty cool. Nice gadgetries and acceleration.

The only thing I hate is being smashed off the line by middle to late aged ladies in cardigans, and then getting the dirty smart alec smile at the next set of lights.

I would love a Tesla as my daily and keep my V8's for the weekend.

Bossxr8 · 07-07-2022, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

Daughter bought a Hybrid Rav4 drives just like any other car,but uses about 1/4 of the fuel.Thing I like about it is no need for electric plug but still the advantages of EV

The hybrid Rav4 isn't really that much better on fuel than the conventional ones. About 2 litres per 100 km better. So about 25%.

On the official figures you'd have to drive 50,000 km to pay for itself. Which isn't too bad.

They simply don't have the efficiency of plug in hybrids, which in most cases can do 70-80km on electric power alone. But they are significantly more expensive than basic hybrid systems like Toyota use here. I'm pretty sure they offer full PHEV overseas, but I don't recall them bringing them here.

Seems like most plug ins cost around an extra 10k, whereas the hybrid option on the Rav4 is around 2k. The cost benefit of a PHEV depends entirely on how much you drive it between recharges. If you did less than the EV range everyday you could technically never use the ICE engine. But if you drive hundreds of k's a day and never charge it, it would cost a lot more to run.

The interesting thing i'm seeing now is the soaring price of metals like Lithium, which EV's use a lot of. They have been telling us for the past few years that EV's will become affordable, but it seems to be a lot of them have actually increased price now because of soaring material prices. But then again, all cars are heading that way. Will they ever become truly affordable? Will we ever see a 25k drive away EV?

I read something recently about the Mach E. Initially it was cost neutral for Ford to sell them. Now with the soaring price of precious metals, they are now selling for a loss. I think Ford will just accept the losses on them though, at least for a while. Funny how it's the profits of ICE's keeping EV's afloat at the majors.

**Polyal** · 07-07-2022, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

Daughter bought a Hybrid Rav4 drives just like any other car,but uses about 1/4 of the fuel.Thing I like about it is no need for electric plug but still the advantages of EV

Ohh yeah not quite the same, I am still sceptical on hybrids but they paved the way.

Speaking to taxi owners and hiring a camry hybrid they still use a bit of fuel to the point that a good TDi or 4 pot would not be far off without the battery issue sin 7-10 years time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordomatic

I would love a Tesla as my daily and keep my V8's for the weekend.

+1. Thats my plan.

T3rminator · 07-07-2022, 12:32 PM

WTI ($97) and Brent ($99) under $100. But pump prices really hitting its strides now.

I don't fully understand how all these "future" contracts work and how it affects current pump prices, but what is should realistically be the lag between oil price and what we see at the pump?

**kypez** · 07-07-2022, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordomatic

99% of the haters haven't actually driven one, or driven one for a good period of time to feel how good they are. This is what annoys me most, "I hate EV's because they make no noise, the government is trying to force me to buy one and i prefer the feel of an ICE vehicle."

When you actually drive one (A Tesla Model 3 for me) you realise that they are amazing vehicles with awesome tech, are super reliable and cheap to run. People need to take EV's for what they are, not what they "think" they are.

I wanted to hate the Tesla so much, I was always an EV hater, then I drove one and if I was in the financial position, I would buy one in a heartbeat. I also still love my manual V8's but im not so one eyed that I don't appreciate a good car when I drive one. It's the way of the future and as soon as people get their heads around that, the easier the transition will be.

Thats literally how I ended up with my Model S. It was on a whim that I went for a Test Drive and I wanted to hate it (at the time, I had 37 cylinders of ICE at home). I loved it so much that I'm now down to only 20 cylinders at home. It was such a joy to drive and after a couple of years, the Model 3 made perfect sense (especially for the wife as she didn't like my Falcons for being too big and the Model S is the same size).

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Haters gonna hate. I'm a forever V8 fan, so can't see myself owning one in the near future, but have driven a model 3? for a short period, and it was pretty cool. Nice gadgetries and acceleration.

The only thing I hate is being smashed off the line by middle to late aged ladies in cardigans, and then getting the dirty smart alec smile at the next set of lights.

I love my V8's but I can't justify driving them daily. So much money just "burning" without an asset.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordomatic

I would love a Tesla as my daily and keep my V8's for the weekend.

Exactly how I use them. I've done 4000kms in the last 12 months between the GTF and the Mustang and 30,000 kms in the Tesla. It would've cost me about $10,000 in fuel to do the same in the Mustang/GTF (working off a conservative $2 a litre which is now long gone!). Its been all but free in the Tesla. Done plenty of trips to Brissy and Melbourne in that time (actually driving to melbourne at the end of the month and will bring parts back for the Mustang from Herrod in the Tesla. I get free fast charging in the Tesla so the trip to Melbourne and back is free).

The money I save on fuel I put towards upgrades to the Mustang.

GASWAGON · 07-07-2022, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3rminator

WTI ($97) and Brent ($99) under $100. But pump prices really hitting its strides now.

I don't fully understand how all these "future" contracts work and how it affects current pump prices, but what is should realistically be the lag between oil price and what we see at the pump?

Thats great news hopefully pump prices drop after the present highs we have now.

Bossxr8 · 07-07-2022, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3rminator

WTI ($97) and Brent ($99) under $100. But pump prices really hitting its strides now.

I don't fully understand how all these "future" contracts work and how it affects current pump prices, but what is should realistically be the lag between oil price and what we see at the pump?

I think they say about 2 weeks. But the oil companies make it up as it goes to suit them, so who tf knows.

**kypez** · 07-07-2022, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I read something recently about the Mach E. Initially it was cost neutral for Ford to sell them. Now with the soaring price of precious metals, they are now selling for a loss. I think Ford will just accept the losses on them though, at least for a while. Funny how it's the profits of ICE's keeping EV's afloat at the majors.

There is an interview with the CEO of Ford, Jim Farley, who points out the Mach E is what allows Ford to continue to make V8 Mustangs. The Fleet efficiency standards were why Ford went with the Mustang moniker for the Mach E giving the V8 another 10 years at least.

EVs are helping the ICE keep going as well.

34 minute mark of the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid...ature=youtu.be