AU 5.0 header Q's

raised by monkeys · 08-01-2012, 06:21 PM

G'day

my goal for my ute is 200rwkw - 210rwkw. So im not after huge numbers.
My Q is, the stock te50 headers seem like a good choice if a set were available at a good price over aftermarket.

stock te50 headers have 1 5/8" primaries and 2.5" collection is that correct?

I am on a budget, but should i just spend the extra $$ and go aftermarket stainless HPC with bigger primaries?

b2tf · 08-01-2012, 07:03 PM

Secondhand set of pacies would be the go. You will get 4.6 million answers as to who prefers 4 into 1s, tri-y's etc to be honest I would just get whatever you find that suits the budget. Anything is going to be better than stock.

**Whoosha** · 08-01-2012, 07:35 PM

Why bother with SSHPC set, as Austin said if your on a budget just get some Pacies or secondhand 200 220s, on a 200kw motor your would be flat out picking the difference on the road

b2tf · 08-01-2012, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whoosha

on a 200kw motor your would be flat out picking the difference on the road

You bloody 220 owners, think you're all that don't ya

XH5LWEPN · 08-01-2012, 10:25 PM

If we are talking 200-210rwkw on an unopened motor id be going to a set of PH4006's.
Factory headers are great if you cut off the 2.25" collector and open it up to 2.5".
But if your chasing every last drop of power, id go to the tuned length 1-5/8" Pacemakers.

Sox · 08-01-2012, 10:34 PM

Aside from hand made headers like my own, these are the best performing and best value IMO.

http://www.bestmufflers.com/bshop/pr...5412124e98d5a5

Sox · 09-01-2012, 08:59 AM

Take a gander at this thread -

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11345274

BZINGA · 09-01-2012, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

Aside from hand made headers like my own, these are the best performing and best value IMO.

http://www.bestmufflers.com/bshop/pr...5412124e98d5a5

I ended up using these, no complaints ..

raised by monkeys · 09-01-2012, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XH5LWEPN

If we are talking 200-210rwkw on an unopened motor id be going to a set of PH4006's.
Factory headers are great if you cut off the 2.25" collector and open it up to 2.5".
But if your chasing every last drop of power, id go to the tuned length 1-5/8" Pacemakers.

I am new to 5.0's and bigger engine mods. Looking at a mild street cam later on down the track, nothing serious, and some possible porting to match the intake and to make things flow a little better.

All input and advise is welcome from you all

Sox · 09-01-2012, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raised by monkeys

I am new to 5.0's and bigger engine mods. Looking at a mild street cam later on down the track, nothing serious, and some possible porting to match the intake and to make things flow a little better.

All input and advise is welcome from you all

The Hurricanes shown will take you wherever you want, all the way from 200kw to 300kw and more, no problem.
They'll also provide the greatest spread of power for street use you could hope for.

There may be other pipes which might show you slightly higher peak figures, but the spread of power will be smaller.

XH5LWEPN · 09-01-2012, 10:49 AM

Suprises me how well these Hurricanes perform with only 1-1/2" primaries.
Factory headers are 1-5/8" correct?

Sox · 09-01-2012, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XH5LWEPN

Suprises me how well these Hurricanes perform with only 1-1/2" primaries.
Factory headers are 1-5/8" correct?

Why, the little 5L isn't a deep breather, and with the unmolested factory ECU it only spins to 6250rpm.
Spin it to 8000-9000rpm on a regular basis and things may be different.

Yes, factory headers are 1 5/8".

XH5LWEPN · 09-01-2012, 11:28 AM

I guess on a set of std GT40P's with their small exhaust ports they might work.
Put on a set of decent sized heads With larger exhaust ports(AFR165, TFS170) to turn it into a "deep breather" and id be using nothing less than 1-5/8".

I wonder why these superior Tickford engineers chose an 1-5/8" primary 4-1 for all 185-200-220-250kw 5.0's

raised by monkeys · 09-01-2012, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XH5LWEPN

I guess on a set of std GT40P's with their small exhaust ports they might work.
Put on a set of decent sized heads With larger exhaust ports(AFR165, TFS170) to turn it into a "deep breather" and id be using nothing less than 1-5/8".

I wonder why these superior Tickford engineers chose an 1-5/8" primary 4-1 for all 185-200-220-250kw 5.0's

Does anyone know how well, or speculate how well an AFR & stock explorer manifold combo; with portining to match, may work. Looking at aftermarket heads probably isnt in my budgets best interest, but if the few extra $$ over stock gt40p heads (then selling to a pre-Au owner) means easier breatheing/economy/options, then it may have to be a consideration.

Sox · 09-01-2012, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XH5LWEPN

I guess on a set of std GT40P's with their small exhaust ports they might work.
Put on a set of decent sized heads With larger exhaust ports(AFR165, TFS170) to turn it into a "deep breather" and id be using nothing less than 1-5/8".

One of the guys on the T forum has a 5.6L with AFR165 and claimed he got the best results with the Hurricanes too.
Again, we're still talking less than 6000rpm.

My P250 has similar pipes.

Quote:

I wonder why these superior Tickford engineers chose an 1-5/8" primary 4-1 for all 185-200-220-250kw 5.0's

Who knows, but at a rough guess they're 4-1's because of cost, and they likely needed the bigger diameter because of there length.

Sox · 09-01-2012, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raised by monkeys

Does anyone know how well, or speculate how well an AFR & stock explorer manifold combo; with portining to match, may work. Looking at aftermarket heads probably isnt in my budgets best interest, but if the few extra $$ over stock gt40p heads (then selling to a pre-Au owner) means easier breatheing/economy/options, then it may have to be a consideration.

It should work just fine, it may limit your peak power figure a little, but who cares?
You need to look at how much time your engine spends at 5000-6000rpm.

For street driving you want most power between 2000-5000rpm.

raised by monkeys · 09-01-2012, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

It should work just fine, it may limit your peak power figure a little, but who cares?
You need to look at how much time your engine spends at 5000-6000rpm.

For street driving you want most power between 2000-5000rpm.

Yeah, it wont spend too much time between 5000-6000rpm. Only want to give it a little squirt when taking it on a road trip, but nothing else. Just a nice cruiser.

Im not worried too much about the peak power, but if im going to the point of a cam and porting, a lot of the cost will be in labour, and if im going to pay a machinist to do some quality work why waste it on a stock combo that no matter how much posrting it aint gonna breath easy (and may even reduce the integrity of the stock gt40ps). So the few extra $$ may even be a safer and economical decision.

raised by monkeys · 09-01-2012, 12:00 PM

so, in saying all this, if i were to purchase a set of headers before doing any major mods, would it be pointless or will the same set of headers provide me with what i need later down the track also? and which option would be appropriate in such a scenario?

Sox · 09-01-2012, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raised by monkeys

yeah, im not worried too much about the peak power, but if im going to the point of a cam and porting, a lot of the cost will be in labour, and if im going to pay a machinist to do some quality work why waste it on a stock combo that no matter how much posrting it aint gonna breath easy (and may even reduce the integrity of the stock gt40ps). So the few extra $$ may even be a safer and economical decision.

There's a few guys making around 200rwkw and running mid to high 13's and they've just scratched the surface.
Headers, exhaust, a frag of intake fiddling, and a tune.

I'd say there's heaps more potential lurking within for not a lot of $$.

Sox · 09-01-2012, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raised by monkeys

so, i saying all this, if i were to purchase a set of headers shortly, before doing any major mods, would it be pointless or will the same set of headers provide me with what i need later down the track also?

No problem, IMO.
It's not like you'll ever spin it past 8000rpm.
It's unlikely you'll ever spin it past 6500rpm for that matter.

b2tf · 09-01-2012, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raised by monkeys

so, in saying all this, if i were to purchase a set of headers before doing any major mods, would it be pointless or will the same set of headers provide me with what i need later down the track also? and which option would be appropriate in such a scenario?

I think headers and a decent exhaust should actually be at the top of your mods list. It is one of the first things I did to my ute and the difference is noticable - there's no point trying to make the engine breathe better if it can't get the gas out.

As above, everybody has a different opinion on what works. I have 4 into 1's and for the cost and effort involved I wouldn't change them to anything else.

Grobbo · 09-01-2012, 01:09 PM

Depending on budget, if you have a 200kw motor, the stock headers are hardly rubbish - I mean they already liberate 15 more kw than the 185 headers don't they? (them being the only difference betwixt the two motors)

I always suspected I'd get more gains from changing out my old flogged out cats for new 100 cell items than changing the stock headers.

I often wondered what was also happening with peoples cats when they were talking about the gains they got from switching headers.

No science behind this hunch, just sayin'... But I had budgeted/planned to do cats, then some other stuff, before I changed the stock headers on my 200kw 4.9.

Sox · 09-01-2012, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grobbo

Depending on budget, if you have a 200kw motor, the stock headers are hardly rubbish - I mean they already liberate 15 more kw than the 185 headers don't they? (them being the only difference betwixt the two motors)

I always suspected I'd get more gains from changing out my old flogged out cats for new 100 cell items than changing the stock headers.

I often wondered what was also happening with peoples cats when they were talking about the gains they got from switching headers.

No science behind this hunch, just sayin'... But I had budgeted/planned to do cats, then some other stuff, before I changed the stock headers on my 200kw 4.9.

I'm not sure what all the exact differences are, but I do know the 200 has a bigger cam than the 185.
I actually thought the headers were the same, but I'm not sure.

FWIW, I actually do feel the the standard headers are pretty much rubbish for anyone chasing performance.
Firstly for street use tri-y provide a much wider spread of power.
Secondly, they are way too short and not tuned length.

As my old exhaust maker said, they're ok for a factory type header, being better than the old cast iron log manifold, but compared to a well made tri-y, they're *****.

XH5LWEPN · 09-01-2012, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grobbo

Depending on budget, if you have a 200kw motor, the stock headers are hardly rubbish - I mean they already liberate 15 more kw than the 185 headers don't they? (them being the only difference betwixt the two motors).

185kw headers were the same as 200kw, the extra 15kw came from the crow cam and 1.7 rockers.

Those 13sec unopened 220kw XR8's, wonder how many were running Hurricane headers? I know the AUII XR8 that i bought the 220kw engine out of for my ex missus fairmont Ghia was running 13.8's with PH4006's. Not sure what Craig was running on his..

Grobbo · 09-01-2012, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

I'm not sure what all the exact differences are, but I do know the 200 has a bigger cam than the 185.
I actually thought the headers were the same, but I'm not sure.

FWIW, I actually do feel the the standard headers are pretty much rubbish for anyone chasing performance.
Firstly for street use tri-y provide a much wider spread of power.
Secondly, they are way too short and not tuned length.

As my old exhaust maker said, they're ok for a factory type header, being better than the old cast iron log manifold, but compared to a well made tri-y, they're *****.

Well according to the info on this site (AU XR8 basic questions answered) the 185 and the 200 are identical motors, aside from the headers. I think I've also read that in an article elsewhere too. (Autospeed)

Yeah sounds about right about the headers I guess, in my case I couldn't do both cats and new headers, so I thought cats only would give me more gains. The exhaust man talked me out of it tho - said just save it till you can do both... :-) Sold it before that day came...

Sox · 09-01-2012, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XH5LWEPN

185kw headers were the same as 200kw, the extra 15kw came from the crow cam and 1.7 rockers.

I thought so, but I think they're 1.6 rockers.
Then the 220 had a smaller cam, but 1.7 rockers.
The trick for people with the 200 is to fit 1.7 rockers and they end up with a stouter setup than the 220.

Quote:

Those 13sec unopened 220kw XR8's, wonder how many were running Hurricane headers? I know the AUII XR8 that i bought the 220kw engine out of for my ex missus fairmont Ghia was running 13.8's with PH4006's. Not sure what Craig was running on his..

I think Craig once told me he had 4-1's, dunno the brand.

I thought one of the dudes (Whoosha maybe?) had standard headers and got into the 13's. But again, my memory is poor until something starts nudging it....

Even so, rock stock standard as Ford intended the 220's ran low 14's.
Hell, the the journos of the day were doing mid 14's, with a full tank of fuel and 2 people on board.

b2tf · 09-01-2012, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

The trick for people with the 200 is to fit 1.7 rockers and they and up with a stouter setup than the 220.

This is what my ute has - from factory too. Late build AU3 XR8 utes seemed to have been given 1.7 RR's, I have now owned 2 that had them.

Grobbo · 09-01-2012, 02:24 PM

Well there you go. I think I read 'identical heads' and assumed that meant 'identical cams'.

Must've forgotten it was a pushrod... :-)

Sox · 09-01-2012, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

This is what my ute has - from factory too. Late build AU3 XR8 utes seemed to have been given 1.7 RR's, I have now owned 2 that had them.

Perhaps they were the 220, snuck in while no one was looking?
Does it have the engine oil cooler?

XH5LWEPN · 09-01-2012, 02:30 PM

The 200kw got the Crow 621339 cam, the 220kw got the 631338, if you look at the lift figures on Crows website (listings are for 1.6 rockers) you'll see that the 200kw definately wasnt running 1.6 rockers from factory. Both were fitted with 1.7's.