Ford strike back with police cars

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by bigsta

there is no point explaining it further to you.

Holden will do great out of this for years to come and this is good for Australia.

You're living in denial of history, Holden has struggled to make a profit since exports began to the USA,
look it up and you'll find Holden's profits collapsed with the introduction of Zeta, that's no coincidence.
Even Deveraux said that Holden plans to be a more regional (read domestic) producer from now on.

I see no joy in turning a beautiful $65,000 Luxury car into a police hack,
and in a way, I'm glad that this never happened to our beloved Fairlane.

[Chilliman]

Now that Camaro is moving onto the Alpha platform (maybe as early as 2013), if the police orders don't fire for Holden, Zeta could be in the same situation as the current Falcon - an orphan in an increasingly globalised world....Super Epsilon for Commodore in 2018 any-one?

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by jpd80

If Holden are exporting Caprice PPV for 12-14K wouldn't the government
hit them with price transferring to avoid taxation on revenue here?

Didn't Toyota get slammed like this in 2009 copping a huge fine?

Yes the ATO would look at it. Yes Toyota got slammed for something very similar and paid what ~$200M in back taxes and fines.

[Chilliman]

Originally Posted by phillyc

Yes the ATO would look at it. Yes Toyota got slammed for something very similar and paid what ~$200M in back taxes and fines.

I believe that because of that fine, they made a loss that year?

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Chilliman

Now that Camaro is moving onto the Alpha platform (maybe as early as 2013), if the police orders don't fire for Holden, Zeta could be in the same situation as the current Falcon - an orphan in an increasingly globalised world....Super Epsilon for Commodore in 2018 any-one?

I think that situation is all but confirmed. Holden could of course ditch Zeta all together and move onto Alpha themselves, but perhaps GM wouldnt bankroll such a move so if they want to remain RWD, staying on Zeta is the only option.

[mik]

its hard to imagine building an 1800 kg car for 14 k let alone transporting it to the US.

[jpd80]

About two years ago a person fairly versed in Commodore costings suggested break even on VE was AUS$25K

When Caprice PPV contract was negotiated in US dollars, Holden would have said we need the above price
to break even and at the time the exchange rate was 70 cents US or thereabouts, meaning US $18K.

Now if those figures are correct, Holden still gets USD$18K + freight per car but that is now around
AUS$7K less per vehicle due to currency shift, that makes a huge difference to the business case.

Holden have spent $200 million to get Caprice PPV, now they have to wait for sales...

[Road_Warrior]

Am I the only person who thinks a plane Jane stripped out Caprice V8 is appealing?

[banarcus]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Am I the only person who thinks a plane Jane stripped out Caprice V8 is appealing?

Only if it is a US spec police car otherwise an omega spec LWB wouldn't do it for me.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by jpd80

About two years ago a person fairly versed in Commodore costings suggested break even on VE was AUS$25K

When Caprice PPV contract was negotiated in US dollars, Holden would have said we need the above price
to break even and at the time the exchange rate was 70 cents US or thereabouts, meaning US $18K.

Now if those figures are correct, Holden still gets USD$18K + freight per car but that is now around
AUS$7K less per vehicle due to currency shift, that makes a huge difference to the business case.

Holden have spent $200 million to get Caprice PPV, now they have to wait for sales...

Fully agree on the what you assume is the cost price for a VE. A few years ago, Holden were offering employee discounts up to 25% of the lower models (and it was stated these were cut to the bone, no profit, maybe a little loss), just to move cars. Thus it probably would have taken the Omega down to about $25K.

But you last assumptions would be very worrying for its business case (200 million to get PPV). Although I havent heard this figue before, and dont know where you got it from. The following article states

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/ipad/pol...-1225991954106

A big deal could mean 10,000 orders per year. Which makes sense as the market is approx 70,000 per year, so Holden may pick up some sales, but it wont amount to much in the scheme of things due to pricing and country of origin etc.

Thus apart from the cost to build the car, Holden (GM)also need to write off the 200 million development costs. 30,000 sales (in a best case scenario) over 3 years, amount to nearly $7,000 per car in development costs alone.


You also got to love the following line from the article

GM Holden did well in the US with a Commodore that was tweaked into the hot Pontiac G8 but,

They made a $200 million loss on the G8 deal, and they did well. Go figure.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by banarcus

Only if it is a US spec police car otherwise an omega spec LWB wouldn't do it for me.

Yeah if it was 9C1 spec fitout like the cop cars used to be with the Executive it would be ok.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

But you last assumptions would be very worrying for its business case (200 million to get PPV). Although I havent heard this figue before, and dont know where you got it from.

Remember that secret loan for $200 million Holden secured from the government?
Well, that loan was to cover the development costs of another export, namely the Caprice PPV..

At the time, the Commonwealth bank wouldn't lend to Holden because GM was in receivership...

Yes, Holden went into debt to do this car.....

[atec77]

Originally Posted by zetec

It will be tragic if they don't use the Falcon.

The obvios thing is to build something suitable
lightweigh all the crap stripped out v8 and 6 speed manaul under 30k
it would be selling very quickly with factory backed cheap finance

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Remember that secret loan for $200 million Holden secured from the government?
Well, that loan was to cover the development costs of another export, namely the Caprice PPV..

At the time, the Commonwealth bank wouldn't lend to Holden because GM was in receivership...

Yes, Holden went into debt to do this car.....

what rubbish, it was a line of credit in case GM went under, it was never exercised.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

what rubbish, it was a line of credit in case GM went under, it was never exercised.

The line of credit was specifically to develop an export vehicle, that's why the government backed it.

The only question that springs to mind is whether that funding was divided between Caprice PPV,
Turbo V6 engine exports to Cadillac SRX, and creating export base for Cruze hatchback

This was an article from 2009 referring to the official press release:

Link to 2009 aritcle

The EFIC facility is best described as an overdraft targeted to export activity that Holden can tap into, in whole or in part (it is not a ‘grant’).

And, although it has not been drawn (August 2009), the line of credit will no doubt assist Holden as it looks to secure new export opportunities for the Commodore, Statesman and its V6 engine export programs.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Brazen

what rubbish, it was a line of credit in case GM went under, it was never exercised.

It may not have been exercised (as in drawn down like an overdraft) however a supplier may not have provided goods unless GM-H could prove it was able to pay. They may have been able to use cashflow to actually pay their invoices however such a line of credit would have provided the supplier with a guarantee that all supplies can be settled. Without it GMH was very, very stuffed....

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

It may not have been exercised (as in drawn down like an overdraft) however a supplier may not have provided goods unless GM-H could prove it was able to pay. They may have been able to use cashflow to actually pay their invoices however such a line of credit would have provided the supplier with a guarantee that all supplies can be settled. Without it GMH was very, very stuffed....

In 2009 when GM went Chapter 11, Holden knew they wer going to take a bath on G8, and they did.
This application for credit was made to the government to fund more export development but
only after the Commonwealth bank refused to deal with them because the parent was CH 11.
It is highly likely that once GM's position stabilised that Holden was able to source loans
from the Commonwealth again and relinquished the loan from the government.

My concern is that Holden is going into hock to chase Police vehicle export contracts,
had they been exporting a luxury version Chevrolet Caprice or A Buick Park Avenue
I'd be right on board with it.... I hate the thought of a beautiful Caprice as a squad car.

[Bossxr8]

Holden GM has already said that they will make only a tiny% profit on Caprice PPV. I guess 0 is a percent.

With the dollar near parity they will be lucky if they don't lose money on every one they sell.

[Road_Warrior]

The extra volume keeps their plant humming at sustainable numbers though and while GM and GovCo continue to subsidise their operations, not much will change - it almost seems like they don't care about profits.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

The extra volume keeps their plant humming at sustainable numbers though and while GM and GovCo continue to subsidise their operations, not much will change - it almost seems like they don't care about profits.

The alternative is to lay off 2500 employees, with very generous redundancy provisions. Some of the longer serving employees a few years back were walking away with over $200,000. For a company that was said to have negative assets, Holden just couldnt afford to stop working.

Thats why when they are putting on new employees, they arent going on via the EBA, they are getting 12 month contracts.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

The alternative is to lay off 2500 employees, with very generous redundancy provisions. Some of the longer serving employees a few years back were walking away with over $200,000. For a company that was said to have negative assets, Holden just couldnt afford to stop working.

A while back, Holden put Elizabeth shift workers on half work-half pay because they
couldn't afford the redundancy pay outs, Ford put off 600 workers the year before
and it was some incredible figure like $200 million pushing FoA deep into the red.

Thats why when they are putting on new employees, they arent going on via the EBA, they are getting 12 month contracts.

I hope for their sakes things go well with Cruze, the hatchback looks like really increasing sales.

[ltd]

It is looking less likely for Holden to get the contract simply because their are other bidders, the dollar is near parity which kills Holdens advantage, and the auto union of America UAW won't let all these jobs go offshore. Further, Holden does not have the production capacity of a GM or Ford USA plant and they wouldn't be able to get them fast enough.

[vztrt]

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/03/07/v...he-competitio/

Videos: Ford pits Police Interceptor pair against the competition

by Aaron Richardson (RSS feed) on Mar 7th 2011 at 12:01AM

The long-serving Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor will take its final bow this year, leaving behind a legacy of protecting and serving that outstrips even the legendary Chevrolet Caprice. To fill the void left by the stout-but-dated Crown Vic, Ford is releasing a fleet of new Police Interceptors, and they've got a legacy to uphold.

Ahead of their launch, Dearborn pitted the new Interceptors against their competition from Dodge and Chevrolet, the Dodge Charger and the Chevrolet Tahoe. Ford is releasing 2011 Explorer and 2011 Taurus versions of the Interceptor, with the Explorer getting a 3.7-liter Ti-VCT V6 making 300 horsepower and the Taurus available with either a 3.5-liter 280-hp V6, or the 365 hp 3.5-liter EcoBoost mill from the SHO.

Ford is offering the Interceptors in front or all-wheel drive guise, eschewing the Crown Vic's rear-drive-only platform. Click past the jump to see how Ford's efforts stack up to the competition.

Video's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=Bx8-QZfPwwc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=7Tsbf6gTKG8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1wcU...layer_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJkvM...layer_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsL0H...layer_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sZGO...layer_embedded

[stang65]

Awsome

[mik]

ford has put a lot of effort into these new police cars, they look pretty good.

[vztrt]

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/04/25/r...ets-with-2013/

Report: Ford Taurus Police Interceptor to hit streets with 2013 updates

by Chris Shunk (RSS feed) on Apr 25th 2011 at 1:32PM

The Ford Crown Victoria has been such a valuable asset to police agencies around the U.S. that some municipalities have gone as far as to order extras. The reason? The Crown Vic will be retired at the end of 2011, with a replacement coming in the form of the Taurus Police Interceptor. But with the new 2013 Taurus being shown at the New York Auto Show and Ford already having shown a version of the cruiser based on the 2011 model, which version will the cops get?

USA Today reports that Ford product boss Derrick Kuzak says the Taurus PI will in fact be based off the 2013 model, which includes LED taillights and new front and rear fascias. Beyond cosmetic upgrades, the 2013 Taurus will also receive a 27-horsepower boost from the 3.5-liter V6 (to 290 hp) and an EcoBoost 2.0-liter turbo that boasts highway fuel economy of 31 miles per gallon. The V6-powered EcoBoost Taurus SHO will continue to feature 365 hp.

Since the new Taurus PI will be a 2013 model, will it also offer all three powertrains? We're thinking there might be a few police agencies that would be interested in a more fuel efficient cop car. A 2.0-liter EcoBoost model could save municipalities some bucks, but historically, most departments have shied away from the high-tech and smaller displacement in favor of the less complex and tried-and-true, so we're not sure how well they'd fare in the marketplace. What are your thoughts? Have your say in Comments.

[vztrt]

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/05/11/2...hows-its-face/

Spy Shots: 2013 Ford Taurus Police Interceptor shows its face

by Zach Bowman (RSS feed) on May 11th 2011 at 9:36AM



It looks as if the recent update to the 2013 Ford Taurus will translate to the company's new Police Interceptor. Our elite squad of spy photographers have managed to capture a few images of a revamped Interceptor during transport, and while several mules have been spotted with heavy front-end camouflage, this particular car has dropped its gown for the whole world to see. Along with a more aggressive front fascia, the vehicle wears a larger grille than its civilian counterparts to accommodate additional lighting, and perhaps enable better breathing.

Speaking of lighting, Ford looks to have reworked the vehicle's taillights to accept emergency strobes as well. Take this as an official warning – if you see this guy stalking you through traffic, it's probably already too late. Just go ahead and pull on over.

It's unclear exactly what performance modifications will accompany the aesthetic alterations. Still, given that the 2013 Taurus is now available with 290 horsepower from the base 3.5-liter V6 as well as a fuel-efficient 2.0-liter Ecoboost four-cylinder and the mighty Ecoboost V6 with 365 ponies, law enforcement will likely have plenty of options to chose from.

More Pics

[vztrt]

SO we have a figure for the Commodore police car.....23 for May

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/06/03/p...hitting-the-s/

Confirmed: PSA: First batch of 2012 Chevy Caprice police cars hitting the streets

by Jeremy Korzeniewski (RSS feed) on Jun 3rd 2011 at 4:46PM

Do you own a fast car? Does your inner conscience often lose control of your right foot? If so, dear speeder, we have an important Public Service Announcement you'll be keenly interested in:

The first batch of Australian-built 2012 Chevrolet Caprice PPV police cruisers has reportedly made it to the States. So says Automotive News, who reports that the tally is currently very small (just 23 were sold in May to unidentified law agencies), but more are clearly on the horizon – AN helpfully reminds that police car sales can average 65,000 to 70,000 units when the economy isn't in a funk.

So, all you horizon scanners out there on the lookout for the Boys in Blue (or is that the boys in the black and whites?), you've got one more silhouette to burn into your brains. Take a good look at the Chevrolet in our high-res image gallery below, and commit it to memory. You have been warned.

(Or, ya know, you could just obey the posted speed limits...)

[outback_ute]

Interesting, I was wondering when actual export numbers were going to emerge - now the question is what sort of publicity it will get in the Aust media!

[Sorted]

23 sold - as of they will buy 65,000 to 70,000 lol

Wonder how may police car sales are in Aus just for comparison

It looks Getto spec - alot of young punks will think its cool az