Ford strike back with police cars

[vztrt]

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2577F5001C9E51

US police forces ready to nab Caprice

Seven US states named by Holden as likely customers for Chevrolet Caprice cop car

13 December 2010

By RON HAMMERTON

POLICE departments in at least nine US states – including some of the biggest such as California, Michigan and Florida – have requested tender contract documents for the Holden-made Chevrolet Caprice Police Pursuit Vehicle (PPV) that is set to go into production next year.

Although that does not mean definite sales of the purpose-built police sedan based on the Holden Caprice, GM Holden chairman and managing director Mike Devereux said he was expecting orders for “thousands and thousands and thousands” of the vehicles.

Chevrolet has been showing off prototype Caprice PPVs to police forces in a 20-city ‘ride and drive’ whistle-stop tour of the US, with heartening feedback about the two versions of the car – a bells and whistles patrol vehicle and a plain detective car.

Chevrolet2011 Caprice center image“We are not in a position to disclose the number of orders in the system at this time, but we’re confident the number of orders will continue to ramp up in the New Year as we complete the road show and start taking orders for the much higher-volume patrol model,” said Mr Devereux.

Mr Devereux named California, Arizona, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Idaho, Maryland, Michigan and North Carolina as among the states to request tender documents.

“They are all actually tendering with us right now and we are taking orders as we speak,” he said in Melbourne last week at an American Chamber of Commerce in Australia event.

Mr Devereux – who would not discuss the potential for a ‘civilian’ version of the Caprice for North America – said GM knew it had a superior police patrol product, not just by its own estimates but from official comparative testing with police fleets.

“We have completed, for example, our competitive testing with the Michigan state and LA Sheriff Departments and we expect to see those results in the first quarter,” he said.

Mr Devereux said one of the Chevrolet ride days, in Colorado, had been held in such horrendous weather conditions that the test track surface was awash and that witches’ hats set up to create a slalom course had been blown away.

“But the customers loved it and said if the car could perform as well as it did under those adverse conditions, they knew it would excel on clear, dry pavement,” he said.

Mr Devereux conceded that the strong Australian dollar against the US greenback was putting pressure on the deal because forward planning was based on an exchange rate of 80-something cents to the US dollar.

“As (federal industry) minister Kim Carr said, the government does its economic sums with an eight on the front, and so do we,” he said.

“Having a nine on the front certainly squeezes our business in the short term, but we never approach export programs like day traders.

“We develop these programs for the long haul and the tight exchange situation only further reinforces our need to have a profitable domestic business model.

“Does it stop us pursuing other export opportunities? Absolutely not.”

Mr Devereux said most US police vehicles had a column-mounted shifter for the automatic transmission, but Holden had overcome this shortcoming by moving the console-mounted shifter 70mm to the side to make way for police equipment to be mounted on the console.

He said this had been well-accepted by the US police test drivers.

American law enforcement departments buy about 70,000 vehicles a year.

Ford, whose Crown Victoria police vehicle is set to go out of production, hopes to counter the Chev and Chrysler police car entrants with an all-wheel-drive Taurus interceptor powered by a V6 272kW/474Nm EcoBoost twin-turbo engine.

According to American reports, the Taurus was faster around the LA Sheriff’s test track than the 272kW/ 521Nm 6.0-litre V8 Chev Caprice PPV.

Production of the Caprice PPV starts at Holden’s Elizabeth plant with the detective car in the New Year, to be followed by the V8 interceptor and then a V6 police patrol car that is now under development.

[Road Games]

Originally Posted by vztrt

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/11/01/f...ahead-of-sema/

FG series 2 anybody ?

[mik]

its looking like ford missed the boat on this one.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by mik

its looking like ford missed the boat on this one.

On what? Ford have a Police car ready to go as seen throughout the thread.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by mik

its looking like ford missed the boat on this one.

Premature, larger police departments have requested tenders (quotes) only
let's see what becomes of Mike Devereux's thousands and thousands and thousands of orders..

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by mik

its looking like ford missed the boat on this one.

Holden are the masters at exaggerating. if Devereux is not in a position to release any order numbers at the moment, thats beacuse the numbers are currently zero, or too small to be of any significance.

Plus if the business case only makes sense, when the exchange rate has an 8 in front of it, what sense does it make when the exchange rate is at parity. Things must be getting real tough for Devereux. He has taken alot of time is the last few days to announce nothing.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Plus if the business case only makes sense, when the exchange rate has an 8 in front of it, what sense does it make when the exchange rate is at parity. Things must be getting real tough for Devereux. He has taken alot of time is the last few days to announce nothing.

Hence, the number of Holden based threads in the pub at the moment and it
seems like Devereux is trying to shaw up confidence in Holden, here and abroad.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Holden are the masters at exaggerating. if Devereux is not in a position to release any order numbers at the moment, thats beacuse the numbers are currently zero, or too small to be of any significance.

Plus if the business case only makes sense, when the exchange rate has an 8 in front of it, what sense does it make when the exchange rate is at parity. Things must be getting real tough for Devereux. He has taken alot of time is the last few days to announce nothing.

If you think Holden will be doing it tough with the Police Statesman, how do you think they will go with the Australian made Cruze. Things are not rosy in Elizabeth, that's for sure.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Hence, the number of Holden based threads in the pub at the moment and it
seems like Devereux is trying to shaw up confidence in Holden, here and abroad.

If he came out and said things that made sense, you would feel more confident, but he seems to be making the most stupidest comments one could think, almost like he wants people to punch holes in his statement.

1) People still want large cars. Derrr. What he seems to neglect is that people only want them if he offers them at large discounts, and people want 5 other categories of cars more than large cars.

2)Departments have asked for tender documents. Big deal. All it means now is that Holden are going to have to quote for a car, that is probably going to lose them money, and lock them into a loss maker for quite a while (with no way of knowing which way the aussie dollar will go).

3) Going to start offering less discounts. They are selling the least amount of commodores than they ever have, and they are going to try and raise prices, at the same time that categories whic are taking sales, are lowering prices.

If this guy was running a normally listed company, which shareholders reliant on his promises, it wouldnt be allowed.

[jpd80]

Bob, I think it's more a case of certain red team biased media needing
the equivalent of a "hug" from the CEO and having no real stories to report.

This smells like someone went up to Mike Ddevereux and generated five
different stories form a quick interview that maybe lasted two minutes.

I could be wrong but the links on these threads lead like Holden infomercials.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Bob, I think it's more a case of certain red team biased media needing
the equivalent of a "hug" from the CEO and having no real stories to report.

This smells like someone went up to Mike Ddevereux and generated five
different stories form a quick interview that maybe lasted two minutes.

I could be wrong but the links on these threads lead like Holden infomercials.

Regardless, what he is saying, or what could be the case (if what you are saying is correct), and they dont say otherwise, would not be allowable unders the corporations act. And I am only speaking in the perspective of a listed company, but I am sure that it is not only limited to listed companies.

What Devereux has done over the last few days, is fully aimed at trying to put the company and its products in a better light, whilst failing to provide any substance to back it up, Gee Bernie Madoff got 150 years in jail for doing basically the same thing.

If you promise someone that if they bought a car today for x amount of dollars, then the company will do all it can to keep its value by limiting future discounts, then you should, (and indeed i reckon you probably could under the trade practices act) be able to sue. Making someone lose an extra $8000 in car value, due to a broken promise to get rid of discounts is exactly the same crime as taking $8000 from someone for a investment you know is a dud.

And then you come to alot of the suppliers to Holden, who are listed on the stock market. Some (of the smaller ones) Devereux has the ability to make or break, by way of contracts.

The ACCC and the ASX should tell him to stick to the facts.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

And then you come to alot of the suppliers to Holden, who are listed on the stock market. Some (of the smaller ones) Devereux has the ability to make or break, by way of contracts.

I wonder if Holden has been locked into fixed contract with suppliers and forced to
take a set amount of parts, making them build more cars than desirable in recent times...
If that was the case, maybe contract renewals allow more flexibility on supply, allowing
Holden to tailor supply more to their needs....

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by DAZZLER351

FG series 2 anybody ?

Umm no that car is based on the Taurus.

[Road Games]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Umm no that car is based on the Taurus.

Yeah ok ......

[mik]

Originally Posted by vztrt

On what? Ford have a Police car ready to go as seen throughout the thread.

jpd80 Quote:
Originally Posted by mik
its looking like ford missed the boat on this one.


Premature, larger police departments have requested tenders (quotes) only
let's see what becomes of Mike Devereux's thousands and thousands and thousands of orders..


bobthebilda Quote:
Originally Posted by mik
its looking like ford missed the boat on this one.




Holden are the masters at exaggerating. if Devereux is not in a position to release any order numbers at the moment, thats beacuse the numbers are currently zero, or too small to be of any significance.

Plus if the business case only makes sense, when the exchange rate has an 8 in front of it, what sense does it make when the exchange rate is at parity. Things must be getting real tough for Devereux. He has taken alot of time is the last few days to announce nothing.

ok .....my bad , i thought the new Ford police car was`nt to be released till 2012

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by mik

jpd80 Quote:
ok .....my bad , i thought the new Ford police car was`nt to be released till 2012

S'OK.
Jay Leno did a full review on the new PI and PI Utility, check it out...LINK

[mik]

thanks for the link.

[outback_ute]

2012 means model year in the US, so 2011. Traditionally Aug-Oct but sometimes in the first half of the year

[vztrt]

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/12/14/v...tor/#continued

Videos: Jay Leno spends time with Ford's new Police Interceptor, Automoblox

by Zach Bowman (RSS feed) on Dec 14th 2010 at 2:59PM

Jay Leno has been a busy little denim-clad bee lately. The late-night host and car aficionado managed to get up close and personal with what Ford is hoping will become law enforcement's vehicles of choice in the near future – the Ford Police Interceptor and its Utility counterpart. Leno was lucky enough to get a full walk around both bruisers as well as a stint behind the wheel in the rain. The man with the chin managed to run down the current-generation Crown Victoria-based interceptor during a lead follow, so the footage from the track is a little more entertaining than your run-of-the-mill hot lap.

But that's not the only vehicle that Leno's been playing with recently. The comedian also took the time to get familiar with the latest new toy by the guys at Automoblox. The wooden racers are modular in design, allowing kids (and grown-ups, too) to build their own custom model from the available pieces. Think of it as Legos meets Hot Wheels. The pieces are made of German Beachwood, and the latest line of hot rods are right up our alley.

Click on link above to see video's

[Source: Jay Leno's Garage]

[jpd80]

Ford know how to run this one out, the Crown Victoria Police Interceptor stays until the end of September
and Ford will be offering good discounts for PDs that want to keep their fleet mostly CVPI as long
as possible before having to switch. I think Holden will get a few thousand orders, it's only
natural that some sales will bleed their way but it's what happens with the PD budgets that's
most important, if they continue to remain tight, i think Ford and Dodge will hold most of the sales.

once the new Taurus based PI and Explorer based PI utility hit, it's game in beacuse Ford is
set to shake up the field by making the sedan and SUV drive and handle alomst identical to each other,
that is a great incentive to give Ford the bulk of sales right there, no change in driving technique for
officers in and out of different cars...an then of course, there's the added benefit of AWD,
Caprice cant offer that sure footed addition or an SUV that shares parts with Caprice.

[vztrt]

I swear this whole PPV was a marketing exercise by Holden

First drive: Caprice police car not for civvies

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2578180022AB9E

Holden’s Chevy PPV cop car is for neither Oz police nor US public consumption

14 January 2011

By BYRON MATHIOUDAKIS in Phoenix

GENERAL Motors has confirmed that the Holden-developed Chevrolet Caprice PPV (Police Pursuit Vehicle) will not spawn a civilian version for private buyers in the United States.

“We want the police departments to know that this vehicle has been specifically engineered for their needs,” said GM’s fleet and commercial operations manager for law enforcement vehicles, Dana Hammer.

“I think it would dilute the Caprice’s appeal if the public also have access to it.”

Conversely, for different reasons, Australian police forces will not be offered a variation on this specific Caprice, despite the fact that all Caprice PPVs are built in Elizabeth, South Australia.

Speaking to GoAuto at a police demonstration day near Phoenix, Arizona, this month, Holden’s chairman and managing director Mike Devereux said he believed Australian police forces were happy with the VE Commodore sedan and ute-based ‘divvy van’ models.

“There’s no market for a PPV Caprice car in Australia,” he said.

“It’s interesting. In America they put the bad guys in the back of the car. In Australia we use the ‘divvy’ vans – so the long-wheelbase Caprice thing has come about because of how the police in America use the vehicle. And frankly it’s not going to change. So there’s no demand for the short-wheelbase car.

“So there’s not really a lot to put into the Australian police cars from the PPV Caprice, since a lot of the seat sculpting front and back is for US-spec weapon holders and radio units, and that’s not something we would want.”

But Mr Devereux indicated that the experience gained in engineering the WM specifically for PPV work would probably flow-on to Australian cars eventually – but only where applicable.

“There are some basic things we’ve done to all of the vehicles to make them more suitable to this country, such as improved corrosion prevention, and the pounding that (the US police) put their vehicles through.

“So there could be changes that we do that we could integrate into future versions of the Commodore and Caprice, but this is a very specific vehicle, with specific engineering done for this market over the last couple of years. Longer term maybe, but not straight away.

Holden started the Caprice PPV program two years ago, altering a number of items over the standard vehicle that has been available in Australia as the WM Statesman and Caprice luxury sedan range since late 2006 (Holden dropped the former and cut about $10,000 from the price of the latter with the Series II update in September last year).

The WM Caprice basics are there – rear-wheel drive, 51:49 front/rear weight distribution, MacPherson strut front and multi-link independent rear suspension, four-wheel disc brakes with anti-lock brakes, and variable-ratio rack-and-pinion steering system.

Initially, GM’s Chevrolet-built, E85 Ethanol-capable 6.0-litre V8 will be offered, mated to an electronically controlled six-speed automatic gearbox with sequential shift facility and recalibrated upshifts for maximum performance response.

In this state of tune, it delivers 265kW of power at 5300rpm and 520Nm of torque at 4400rpm, for a 0-100km time of “under six seconds”, according to Holden.

In US EPA tests, it returns 13.1 litres per 100km is the combined test, and 9.8 and 15.7L/100km for the city and highway cycles respectively.

In contrast, the Australian-market 260kW/517Nm Caprice V8 returns 12.3L/100km on the different Aussie combined cycle.

Production of the 3.6-litre Alloytec V6 model begins later this year. GM is not releasing any specs, but expect it to improve on the local Caprice’s 210kW and 350Nm. Its availability in the US is to overcome police departments who do not want to be seen using V8s.

Combining some of the emissions and US-specific airbag calibration work (as many Americans don’t wear belts, their force needs to controlled) done for the late (and very much lamented Stateside) VE Commodore-based Pontiac G8 series, as well as the Middle East-bound WM Caprice exports (which still account for a few thousand a year), Holden and Chevrolet engineers developed the Caprice PPV at Milford proving ground in Michigan as well as at Holden’s proving grounds at Lang Lang near Melbourne.

The suspension is basically the FE2 pack developed for Aussie police but revised with a higher ride height and other minor recalibrations to create the FB3 set-up.

Stronger front struts, stronger front-end knuckles and larger brakes with specific heavy-duty rotors, callipers and pads all increase durability. Holden says front-end kerb strike capability testing increased ten-fold, while the steering ratio has been altered for the US car.

Other mods include the availability of the VE ute’s curtain airbag (rear occupants are not catered for here because of the re-design of the cabin partition to protect the police up front), and heavy-duty rubber floors and vinyl seat coverings.

Speaking of seats, the front items have softer honeycomb padding, bolstered upper sides and scalloped lower sides to accommodate bulky gun holsters and other such items without the need for them to be removed. The rear bench is a new one-piece item without the cargo load-through item found on the regular Caprice.

Two PPV models are available – the 9C1 ‘Patrol’ and the 9C3 ‘Detective’ package.

Other than the obvious differences (livery for the former), they are virtually identical save for the Patrol car’s wheel centre caps instead of full hubcaps, the option of vinyl in lieu of standard cloth trim, and a different centre console with a newly-designed floor lever that is offset to the driver’s side to accommodate patrol radio and communications equipment.

And then there are issues of safety and cost that GM is leaning on heavily to convince the Americans.

As most US police cars are based on the outgoing Ford Crown Victoria four-door sedan with 1950s-era body-on-chassis truck-like construction, Chevrolet is making much of the Caprice’s monocoque body construction, standard electronic stability control, traction control and limited-slip differential. The latter have been recalibrated for this role.

Other compelling selling points include a 55-hertz body structure (making the Holden significantly stronger and stiffer than the opposition), near-50 per cent application of high-, advanced high-, and ultra-high-strength steels, advanced safety cage tech with front, side and rear crash-energy load path dissipation, class-leading crash performance for high occupant safety, and the anti-fatiguing quality’s of low noise, vibration and harshness measures.

Low running costs also figure highly. As the Caprice PPV’s $30,995 MSRP is upwards of 10 per cent more than the Crown Victoria, GM emphasises the WM’s unique bolt-on front-end module that – as with all VE-based vehicles – eliminates welding on re-application. These and other spares are also stocked throughout the US as to allay fears of long waiting times.

GM says that while the 492-litre boot – or trunk in American-speak – is officially about 15 per cent shy of the Crown Victoria’s, the optional spare wheel does not impede cargo area volume as it does in the Ford, which then puts the Holden ahead.

At 1932kg, the US car is 59kg heavier than the much more heavily equipped Oz-spec Caprice V8.

As there will be no civilian version of the Australian sedan, GM is also emphasising the expected high resale value as another reason for the police to go Caprice.

“We’ve been doing this for a long time – so we’ve had plenty of experience and input from police,” Mr Devereux said.

“We’ve had people at Milford (GM proving ground in America) driving and assessing with police forces here, and we do the same thing in parallel at Lang Lang and they do all the big work in Australia as well.”

Along with the Caprice, Chevrolet offers the front-wheel drive Impala sedan, Chevrolet Tahoe SUV and Chevrolet Express Prisoner Transport van to the US police force, for the widest range of police-duty vehicles on the market.

Drive impressions:

HOLDEN flew an Australian media contingency to a racetrack in Phoenix, Arizona, to sample its latest export success, the Caprice PPV.

Only three laps of a mile-long course and a further two speed and slalom routes of similar length were allowed, so we only had the briefest taste of what the US cop car can do.

Yet what was immediately apparent on the tight winding turns was how much more of a taut vehicle the Caprice is, with more responsive steering than we expected. GM switched off the ESC so the tail would wag, but of course it is still controllable and catchable (as well as a lot of fun!).

We couldn’t really ascertain if the American model is any faster than the Aussie WM, and there is about two-tonnes of car that needs to be hustled along – but hustle along the Caprice PPV does, with especially strong mid-range acceleration and that always-welcome V8 burble.

Interestingly, Holden has recalibrated the up and down-shift cycles, so the PPV coming out of a slow corner is already held in a lower ratio for more instantaneous acceleration – handy when the criminals in the getaway car ahead are trying to scramble away from the fuzz through the mean streets of San Francisco.

Chevrolet’s PR people made much of the braking performance, and – sure enough – the Caprice’s stopping power matched the hype. GM says no other police vehicle is as eager to come to a halt.

About the only down point is the palpably firmer ride, but the members of the US police force from Arizona that were also there to sample the Caprice could not find fault at all with the performance, braking and dynamics of the Aussie-built machine.

“We love it,” said one enthusiastic cop. “It is better in every single way than the awful front-drive Chev Impala we’re stuck with. Bring on rear-wheel drive!”

Holden, it seems, has a big hit on its hands with the boys in blue.

[Joe5619]

How many orders have they gone??? Holden has gone very very very quite on that number.. Makes me think there many & Holden could in trouble with this..

Hope not, better to sell an aussie built car then a us built car..

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

How many orders have they gone??? Holden has gone very very very quite on that number.. Makes me think there many & Holden could in trouble with this..

Hope not, better to sell an aussie built car then a us built car..

A little birdy told me 70,000 over 4 years.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Brazen

A little birdy told me 70,000 over 4 years.

I don’t want "possibility" numbers, we have heard all that from Holden... I dont believe Police department would put orders 4 years in advance for fleet cars..

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I don’t want "possibility" numbers, we have heard all that from Holden... I dont believe Police department would put orders 4 years in advance for fleet cars..

I know a Police Officer who posts on US web sites who is involved with procurement of vehicles
for his precinct and says that currently on State contract pricing a V6 Charger can be had for $18,500,
Crown Victoria PI has been slashed $8,000 to $20,500, V8 Charger and Caprice PPV are most expensive.
Later this year, Ford will release the 2012 PI with the FWD version matching Charger V6,
the AWD version will be around $2,000 more and Ecoboost V6 $2,500 more again.

So figure on:
FWD PI - Around $18,500 (marching V6 Charger and V6 Impala)
AWD PI - Around $20,500 (replacing crown Victoria PI)
EB AWD PI - Around $24,000 (matching /exceeding V8 Charger /Caprice PPV)

The figure of 70,000 over 4 years for Caprice PPV sales is at the very least, optimistic......

Good luck Holden, Caprice is a good product but can't help thinking the bulk of sales will remain US based.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Brazen

A little birdy told me 70,000 over 4 years.

Fully agree with Joe.

I think your little birdie must have been one of those that has been falling from the skies recently. No Company would have contracts in place for 4 years down the track to buy a specific car, let alone the most bankrupt of corporations (american municipalities which purchase police cars).

Even Deveraux said they were "open for orders" only a little while ago. If Holden had an order book for 70,000 cars, I can assure you it would be in every paper and on every news report in australia.

[Brazen]

duplicate

[Dr Smith]

Well I know of two orders for the office of the mayor of Phoenix...

But the mayor of Phoenix is one who’ll be driven around in the Caprice within months.

“We have two on order for the mayor’s detail,” said Turcott. “[The police] I’ve been talking to really like it.”

...there must be some serious praying within Fishy bend's finance offices for the $Aust to start devaluing before the orders come flowing in...

Link: http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...117-19swe.html

I can't believe how much publicity this exercise is getting (and yes I know I'm repeating it here also adding to the stink) however the local press are publishing every scrap of info being fed to them and one would swear a car transporter is already sailing to the US stacked to the ship's bridge with de-contented Caprices'

[Chilliman]

Sure it wasn't 17,000 cars over four years (i.e. 4,250/year)?

That seems more realistic though I could see where a mistake could be made if you interpreted the above as 17000cars/year for 4 years (i.e. 68,000 or 70,000 rounded-up in total?)

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Well I know of two orders for the office of the mayor of Phoenix...
...there must be some serious praying within Fishy bend's finance offices for the $Aust to start devaluing before the orders come flowing in...

Link: http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...117-19swe.html

Well that story must be completely wrong. For one thing, they arent going to make a civilian version of the car, so why would the mayor drive around in a patrol car. Secondly, the rear seat is not going to be configured for luxury passengers (as it is intended to hold criminals), so not exactly suitable for driving around a mayor.

I think Toby Hagon has taken alot of liberty with the facts, which may have been something like, the mayor may drive around in the car for day or a week to determine if the car is suitable for policing purposes.