what is the hardest car brand to work on?

[Tonz]

very disappointed I n you all. Ford loving gypsies and no one has mentioned the Holden name.
l would curl up dead if I ever went near an olden

[whitelion65]

A gentleman is someone who, 'though he knows the name, chooses NOT to utter it!!!

[5thFordWA]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

Most mid engined cars. Fiat X 1/9 and De Tomaso Pantera are two I have worked on that particularly come to mind. I was flattered to be asked to have a look at a friend of a friends Pantera many, many years ago; I think they were hoping I was not going to say it needed new spark plugs but it did and even with access holes behind the seats it was no fun but still better than the Fiat as I recall (brake and clutch hydraulics). Having big fat arthritic hands doesn't help in confined spaces. But I have learnt the value of buying special tools for these sort of jobs.

Have worked on a fairly new Pantera myself years ago so I know your pain. I had to do something at the front of the engine, maybe replace or tighten the alternator belt, or something simple. You know the drill Aussieblue, remove both seats and insulated trim panel behind seats, remove sealed firewall panel with about 20 screws to get a manhole to front of engine, then you can at least get a visual on the front of the engine, and sit facing backwards on the console with your knees up around your ears to work on it.
To check/top up battery, easiest to jack and remove RHR wheel and the inner mud guard, then use a mirror looking from the wheel arch.
I did learn how to check the engine oil without removing the engine cover. reaching in with left arm from rear of engine, pull up dipstick about 100mm then bend the flexible dipstick through 90deg and withdraw it out the back. Replacing it you had to reach the tip of the dipstick in and twist the end into the tube by feel and push the stick back in. It was my "special skill", good fun.


But I did work on one car which sticks in my mind as EASY to work on. A VOLVO 240, about 1980 vintage when I had a workshop. Just a book service and I thought "here we go", but it was amazing. Had to change the fuel filter, metal canister up in the corner below the RH bonnet hinge, held in by something like a 12mm AF hex bolt. Then I see a 25mm hole cut in the body panel gusset to access that bolt - what? - they actually recognised the difficulty and designed in an access hole! Then I had to work in the console/dash area, and it was actually held together with Phillips head screws, not break-off plastic tabs. I had to have a drink to recover myself after that shock!

Cheers.

[5thFordWA]

Originally Posted by Tonz

very disappointed I n you all. Ford loving gypsies and no one has mentioned the Holden name.
l would curl up dead if I ever went near an olden

Yes, but not that hard to work on, although I do remember once checking a early 253 or 308 V8 with aircon compressor mounted high up LHF of engine for engine miss. Found LHF sparkplug (No 2 I think GM call it - we Ford people would call it No 5) completed eroded away - once I had finally removed it. It would appear all 7 other plugs had been replaced several times but that one was such a b*****d it had never been removed.

And I have replaced the 3 timing chains in a VE SV6, now that was a mission, but enjoyed the challenge!

Cheers.

[Junkyard-Dog]

Duesenberg. No doubt about it.

[Junkyard-Dog]

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

I remember when front wheel drive cars became popular back in the early 80s and people were dreading to do a clutch change, they were putting the price up because it was a front wheel drive,

This trend was still alive and well by the time I got my P plates in 2010. At least, in rural SA it was.

[Bossxr8]

VW Amarok. For whatever reason the wheels don't go on studs with a nut to hold them on. They actually sit on the hub, and have long bolts that bolt the wheel directly to the hub. Weird.

Makes getting the wheel back on a pain in the ****, cause you not only have to sit the wheel on the tiny little hub edge, but you also have to get it positioned in the right spot to be able to get the bolts in the holes. And they are only 5 bolt, not 6 stud like all other utes i've worked on. Bloody germans always have to do things differently.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

VW Amarok. For whatever reason the wheels don't go on studs with a nut to hold them on. They actually sit on the hub, and have long bolts that bolt the wheel directly to the hub. Weird.

Makes getting the wheel back on a pain in the ****, cause you not only have to sit the wheel on the tiny little hub edge, but you also have to get it positioned in the right spot to be able to get the bolts in the holes. And they are only 5 bolt, not 6 stud like all other utes i've worked on. Bloody germans always have to do things differently.

Mercedes have had the 'bolt' system for years, they usually come with a guide stud that can be screwed into the hub to line up the holes.

[Junkyard-Dog]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Mercedes have had the 'bolt' system for years, they usually come with a guide stud that can be screwed into the hub to line up the holes.

Audi and Honda use this system as well. Not sure how many other manufacturers do.

[383hq]

Makes a lot of sense from one perspective - many wheel failures where aftermarket (incorrectly sized) wheels don't sit on the hub, but use the wheel stud itself, great for a while... I think old holden v new holden had same/similar PCD but different hub size of a few mm...

I hear Boxster/Cayman are designed for 100% engine attention from underneath.

I know the porsche turbo has the engine dropped for spark plug replacement, but not too expensive, as its designed that way (as long as its in the air).

[hawke]

[QUOTE=383hq;6567321
I hear Boxster/Cayman are designed for 100% engine attention from underneath.[/QUOTE]

Plugs, oil and filters from underneath, air filter from top - just bend a lot, belts from front - just remove cabin access. Not a big deal. On the positive side, oil filter is only $5.50.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by hawke

Plugs, oil and filters from underneath, air filter from top - just bend a lot, belts from front - just remove cabin access. Not a big deal. On the positive side, oil filter is only $5.50.

Oil filter change for a Benz is easy...lift bonnet, unscrew oil filter, screw on new one, close bonnet

[smoo]

Originally Posted by 383hq

Makes a lot of sense from one perspective - many wheel failures where aftermarket (incorrectly sized) wheels don't sit on the hub, but use the wheel stud itself, great for a while... I think old holden v new holden had same/similar PCD but different hub size of a few mm...

In Mercedes case (I guess VW Amarok as well), it offers the flexibility to switch between alloy and steel wheels without going to the hassle of stripping the hubs to change the studs. Longer studs to compensate for a thicker alloy rim.

Unsure if thats the reason or if its just a Euro thing.

[383hq]

Or changing wheel nuts....

[oldel]

Originally Posted by Junkyard-Dog

Audi and Honda use this system as well. Not sure how many other manufacturers do.

Pretty standard for a few euros. BMW (at least old ones) use hubs to centre the wheels and wheel bolts. Makes it a pain to get aftermarket rims as they are "hub-centric" and you get the worse wheel vibrations ever if you try fit something not fitting perfectly to the hub (or get spacer rings). They do come with a tool to help mount them but I've never bothered with it. (It's the 'handle' rod for the spark plug socket. One end is grey rubber and that end you put into the wheel bolt hole to hold it while picking up the bolts to fit)

Didn't seem so strange to me as all my old mazdas used wheel bolts instead of lugs and nuts anyway. Lugs and nuts is mainly a USA or domestic US owned marque thing.

Anyway, I think the worst cars to work on would be transverse engines - especially V6. Or any type of mid mounted engines.
Something like tranverse v6 in a van would have to be the worst combo outside of audis and porsches

[mad2]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

I've watched a few pro tyre guys almost breaking their backs trying to undo truck left hand side wheel nuts so don't write yourself off yet.

i've undone valiant lefthand wheel nuts ....... then wondered why they broke off - the 2dr i changed the lh studs to rh ..... so i wouldn't break em

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

VW Amarok. For whatever reason the wheels don't go on studs with a nut to hold them on. They actually sit on the hub, and have long bolts that bolt the wheel directly to the hub. Weird.

Makes getting the wheel back on a pain in the ****, cause you not only have to sit the wheel on the tiny little hub edge, but you also have to get it positioned in the right spot to be able to get the bolts in the holes. And they are only 5 bolt, not 6 stud like all other utes i've worked on. Bloody germans always have to do things differently.

At least they have something to guide them on.Back in the old beetle days the wheels had great big centres and screw in studs rather than studs and nuts.Fantastic fun on a dark wet night without a torch

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by smoo

In Mercedes case (I guess VW Amarok as well), it offers the flexibility to switch between alloy and steel wheels without going to the hassle of stripping the hubs to change the studs. Longer studs to compensate for a thicker alloy rim.

Unsure if thats the reason or if its just a Euro thing.

What? Never known of a car needing to change studs to swap between steels and alloys. Falcon and Ranger don't.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Mercedes have had the 'bolt' system for years, they usually come with a guide stud that can be screwed into the hub to line up the holes.

BMWs have these, and very sophisticated security bolts with a ring that just spins if a socket is hammered on.

I assume merc has something similar.

I don't think they could archive this with studs and wheel nuts

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by smoo

In Mercedes case (I guess VW Amarok as well), it offers the flexibility to switch between alloy and steel wheels without going to the hassle of stripping the hubs to change the studs. Longer studs to compensate for a thicker alloy rim.

Unsure if thats the reason or if its just a Euro thing.

with either system the transition between alloy and steel wheels would just be the different nuts or Bolts. you should never need to change the studs?

[Junkyard-Dog]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Oil filter change for a Benz is easy...lift bonnet, unscrew oil filter, screw on new one, close bonnet

What model/year Benz do you have mate? All the cars from that brand I've ever worked on were actually very well laid out and sensible in design.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by junkyard-dog

what model/year benz do you have mate? All the cars from that brand i've ever worked on were actually very well laid out and sensible in design.

clk240

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

with either system the transition between alloy and steel wheels would just be the different nuts or Bolts. you should never need to change the studs?

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

What? Never known of a car needing to change studs to swap between steels and alloys. Falcon and Ranger don't.

Yeah, over thinking on my part & solely had MB in mind.
The greatest difference in wheel bolts on two of my Mercedes between alloys and steel rim is 35mm.
The wheel bolts sit inside the alloy rim. 12mm thread with a 17mm head - not achievable if it was a stud & nut which would usually take a 21mm socket. Anything larger than a 17mm non impact socket wont get inside the bore of the rim to crack the bolt.

[wodahs]

seeing it hasnt been mentioned already
with my big boofy hands the cars i hate working on are matchbox cars

sorry but some one had to eventually say it

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by wodahs

seeing it hasnt been mentioned already
with my big boofy hands the cars i hate working on are matchbox cars

sorry but some one had to eventually say it

You don't drive those, you wear them!

[happy1]

Originally Posted by Junkyard-Dog

Duesenberg. No doubt about it.

haha.. that's funny. First problem is to find one.. would have to break into a museum, or Jay Leno's garage.

Second problem would be to afford paying for it. Apparently they go for high 6 figures, and some 7 figures. However, Wikipedia describes that around 1950s they were not popular, and you could have picked up one for $500.

Third problem would be to find parts for it :-)

Cheers,

[Sprintey]

I'm not a mechanic, and only got to Kingswood level of servicing, rebuilding carbies, putting on manifolds, dropping driveshafts etc... Timing lights and manually turning the distributor - oh yeah!

But strangely I do enjoy watching complex mechanical failure points on yt and seeing how mechanics overcome them.

Here, the TDV6 in a RR gets pulled apart, and the crank has broken (look how thick the broken section is!). What follows is a quest to buy a 2nd handy (whole motor) - and to spoil the plot a little, then create a FrankenTDV6 out of two.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4zXDKlkGhk

8:10: "And look how thick that is for a crankshaft width (?) - that is just p1ss poor. And that's why they're breaking, cos there's just no meat on 'em. That is just such a bad design, it really is, the whole engine's a bad design."

Surely if in Oz, you'd just Barra swap it?

[Junkyard-Dog]

Originally Posted by happy1

haha.. that's funny. First problem is to find one.. would have to break into a museum, or Jay Leno's garage.

Second problem would be to afford paying for it. Apparently they go for high 6 figures, and some 7 figures. However, Wikipedia describes that around 1950s they were not popular, and you could have picked up one for $500.

Third problem would be to find parts for it :-)

Cheers,

;) So as you have kindly outlined - it is the hardest brand to work on... because you can't work on something you don't have access to.