Workers to vote against pay cut to save Holden

[BroadyFord]

Sorry I'm not posting the link in full as I'm doing this via phone:

http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and...o_to_wage_cuts

Looks like it's bye bye Holden!

With this, plus the FBT changes likely destroying their sales of VF, they'd be mad NOT to leave!

[GazzF6]

The end could be near, still no surprise really.
Although not a fan of the Red Team, I don't like to see people lose their jobs...

[GQ_Smooth]

They have the excuse they need to cut their losses before 2022. While I understand union members not wanting their redundancy payouts capped to 52 weeks (which is still more generous than 90% of the Australian work force that is normally capped at 3 months), it will be a public relations war that will have no winners. Both sides will blame each other. People who hate unions will have their soap box and those that don't trust overseas management will have their outlet to point out lies they were told 12+months ago. I see it getting very ugly (unlike Ford). I believe Holden is trying to fight a public relations battle showing the Australian public they tried their hardest to keep manufacturing viable but there was to many hurdles to overcome (even though I believe they know it isn't viable in our current climate).

My 2 cents.

[vztrt]

This will be interesting.

[dddd]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

Sorry I'm not posting the link in full as I'm doing this via phone:

http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and...o_to_wage_cuts

Looks like it's bye bye Holden!

With this, plus the FBT changes likely destroying their sales of VF, they'd be mad NOT to leave!

And when Holden close down just watch them scream and cry. It reminds me of dealing with spoilt children, most brain washed by their unions.

I remember an ongoing news story many years ago (back when Hawke was in power), about a small manufacturer who employed about twenty people. The unions had been picketing the place for about 3 weeks demanding the usual, more money, better conditions, etc. All the time the owner of the business was continually saying he can only just keep the doors open as it was claiming the business was running at a small loss as it is. Anyway after about 3-4 weeks the owner of the company walks out and announces that he has just put the company into receivership and all was lost.

The bit that I have never forgotten is the reaction from the union heavy weights there. They all cheered with joy, stating to the news cameras that this is a lesson that all should learn by, "no one should cross the unions or we will bring you down"(or words to that effect). However employees reactions were not the same as the unions and most were totally shocked as it began to sink into their heads that they longer had a job.

Unions true interest is in power, not people.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by GQ_Smooth

They have the excuse they need to cut their losses before 2022. While I understand union members not wanting their redundancy payouts capped to 52 weeks (which is still more generous than 90% of the Australian work force that is normally capped at 3 months), it will be a public relations war that will have no winners. Both sides will blame each other. People who hate unions will have their soap box and those that don't trust overseas management will have their outlet to point out lies they were told 12+months ago. I see it getting very ugly (unlike Ford). I believe Holden is trying to fight a public relations battle showing the Australian public they tried their hardest to keep manufacturing viable but there was to many hurdles to overcome (even though I believe they know it isn't viable in our current climate).

My 2 cents.

I've said it before, Ford did the sums and accepted the facts. They were then honest and open about their situation.

As usual, GM/Holden cook the books, big note themselves, and whip up a frenzy. Disgusting.

I feel for all the people that will lose their jobs and hope (if Holden does stop local manufacture) that they give plenty of notice and don't just pull the pin one day when the cash runs out.

[BroadyFord]

Keep in mind that this is the exact same situation as the Opel closure in Bochum, Germany. Workers there also refused to take a pay cut and as a result, GM immediately announced the closure of the plant in 2014.

Things have changed since the GFC; there's simply no room for driftwood in the new GM and they will not hesitate to rid themselves of loss-making operations.

The unions are playing with fire here.

[wrongwaynorris]

The unions as usual will do their absolute damndest to lose their members their jobs then attempt to blame anyone but themselves . As someone said earlier Union leaders have absolutely zero interest in their members or members welfare it is ALL about using the union movement as a stalking horse to get into politics .

[Pepscobra]

I am very anti union, I believe they have contributed to the demise of local manufacturing and small business in this once great country... But will these pay cuts actually save Holden?? That is the question.
If there's a chance, the union needs to reconsider their position here; after all, a job on 4/5ths pay is better than no job at all. Some of us have been there before.

[gtfpv]

Do not vote for a pay cut . It isnt the workers wages sending holden down the gurgler .

[stazza]

Holden needs to just lay down and die already.

[ratter]

If Holden are not around any more building cars that people actually want to buy, then the other existing manufacturers including Ford can dictate to the public what sort of cars they will supply, we may end up with boring cars and have no choice about the matter.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by ratter

If Holden are not around any more building cars that people actually want to buy, then the other existing manufacturers including Ford can dictate to the public what sort of cars they will supply, we may end up with boring cars and have no choice about the matter.

What do you mean by 'building cars that people actually want to buy' (?)

Holden wouldn't be in their current position if they were doing that.

To suggest that locally made Commodore and locally built Cruze set the standard for cars that people actually want to buy is ludicrous. To suggest that Holden are the moral compass for the treatment of cosumers in Australia is ludicrous.

The reason for One Ford (and the integrated global operations of all other car makers) is to get the products people actually want onto the market as quickly and efficiently as possible.

[ratter]

well up until recently, commodore has been doing quite well

[GASWAGON]

Holden closing could actually be great news for Ford AU..... More sales of an aussie icon!

[MercurySilver]

union once saved 90 people from being screwed out of a redundancy for a small company i worked for that was sold to a much bigger company that has now been bought out by woolworths

guy there had done 27 years working his way up to pay clerk and wouldve got the award redundancy...nice
so no, unions do not screw workers imo, in this case they saved him and plenty of us others from getting screwed by a shonkey ceo
and i still hope one day i bump into that ceo, i owe him one for standing in my face at the commission in town and lying his *** off in front of a judge
/rant

[burnz]

Originally Posted by dddd

And when Holden close down just watch them scream and cry. It reminds me of dealing with spoilt children, most brain washed by their unions.

I remember an ongoing news story many years ago (back when Hawke was in power), about a small manufacturer who employed about twenty people. The unions had been picketing the place for about 3 weeks demanding the usual, more money, better conditions, etc. All the time the owner of the business was continually saying he can only just keep the doors open as it was claiming the business was running at a small loss as it is. Anyway after about 3-4 weeks the owner of the company walks out and announces that he has just put the company into receivership and all was lost.

The bit that I have never forgotten is the reaction from the union heavy weights there. They all cheered with joy, stating to the news cameras that this is a lesson that all should learn by, "no one should cross the unions or we will bring you down"(or words to that effect). However employees reactions were not the same as the unions and most were totally shocked as it began to sink into their heads that they longer had a job.

Unions true interest is in power, not people.

just out of curiosity were they below the average wage?
and the condition, how many were killed on the floor before the strike?

[TC200six]

Originally Posted by stazza

Holden needs to just lay down and die already.

I'm almost had it with hearing about this Holden dilemma, whether it's the doom or the spin. But it's wrong to just hope they will quickly die. It's very sad that so many people will be out of a job.

[Franco Cozzo]

Holden probably wanted the workers to take the pay cut then would have made them all redundant anyway so they didn't have to pay them as much.

Pay cut or no pay cut Holden will be going.

[jpd80]

Mr Camillo said Holden was trying to cap future voluntary redundancy payouts to 52 weeks.
"That means anyone who has worked for longer than 12 years gets a raw deal. And Holden has a lot of long term staff."

The workers had agreed to give up a 3 per cent pay rise due in November but would not accept wage freezes
for a further four years, Mr Camillo said. Holden is conducting detailed negotiations daily with unions and
workers until the August 9 deadline, Mr Camillo said.

"We are still in discussions and are looking at other parts of business to see where other savings might be made,
but the wage cuts and the capped VSPs (voluntary separation programs) are a bridge too far. Our workers will not
accept those conditions."

News Corp understands there are more than 40 points of negotiation, including flexible work hours, and
other efficiencies that would cut costs. Holden would not comment on the negotiations. A spokesman
said it is keeping the details of the negotiations private.

[pottery beige]

yep jpd80 thats the crux of it.. game over an engineered shutdown..

[fte50]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

The unions as usual will do their absolute damndest to lose their members their jobs then attempt to blame anyone but themselves . As someone said earlier Union leaders have absolutely zero interest in their members or members welfare it is ALL about using the union movement as a stalking horse to get into politics .

Not even gonna bother preaching / justifying the benefits of unions to all you anti unionists, even though infact the employer groups also belong to a union - its called the AIG. but I will say this.......

The people of Holden are the union, and unlike smaller firms outside, Holdens employees are the actual union reps within areas and are further led by a senior steward.
They are the delegation and then the membership. The 'union leaders' the above mentioned I assume is referring to an organiser.
We have our own terms/conditions and log of claims that they only push forth.
As the employees being there daily, we dictate the terms, not the outside organisers.

And you can bet your bottom dollar since 2009 its been known inside Holden that a future beyond 2016 is grim let alone 2020.
Holden IS CLOSING and trying to do so as cheap as possible !

[au2000]

im not a holden fan in any way but i have to say i really hope they can pull through it for the sake of the workers more than anything else.
however if i was a betting man i know where id be putting my cash.

[GASWAGON]

Last day today......Ruddy seems to be pretty keen to help out?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-2...elaide/4845108

[BroadyFord]

I remember this John Camillo bloke standing in front of the media in 2008 outside Tonsley Park when Mitsubishi announced closure.

What's he going to do with himself after Holden goes?

[nstg8a]

On the face of it my natural reaction is to think 'why not take the pay cut to keep a job' but if the rumours are true, and Holden intends to close regardless then IMO the workers should do everything within their power to maintain their rights.
Pretty dog act if holden is just trying to lead everyone along in order to reduce their liabilities when they do shut the doors.

[stazza]

Originally Posted by TC200six

I'm almost had it with hearing about this Holden dilemma, whether it's the doom or the spin. But it's wrong to just hope they will quickly die. It's very sad that so many people will be out of a job.

I don't wish anyone to lose their job either. But it IS going to happen, so I wish holden would just admit it and get it over and done with. They just can't stand to 'lose' against Ford. They are as much of sore losers as their fans are and can't admit the obvious and take it on the chin.

[XP6]

If GM's want pay cuts maybe they should start at the top not the bottom... what did the ceo's make last year

[Keepleft]

Had a link somewhere to a Holden 'Work Agreement' - insane, extensive stuff. Wondered why any company would bother trying to run manufacturing here.

I'd expect Fords would be similar.

I'll try and find that link, bible thick!

[fte50]

Nothing insane about it mate - its called progress.
Manufacturers relocating offshore has very very little to do with employee wages & conditions alone