New Submarines - Page 5

bungarra · 19-10-2014, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheap

^ that seems more of a promotional video, shot in a highly staged and controlled situation... Now if a Collins sub could take a photo of Kim Jong Un taking a wee from one of his supposedly many luxury yachts, that would count.

Considering it was done under "war like" conditions during a RimPac excercise, it is not "staged" just an edited verison of 24 hours of evasion and attack. Just for your information, the Collins crews have recieved medals and citations for intelligence gathering off the coasts of China and North Korea from Australia and allied navies.

They got these awards for doing what other nations faield to do, knock on the door and not get caught. The Collins has so far been the only Allied submarine to get clear shots of the entry to China's Hainan Submarine Base and photos and mapped the channels to access the entry point which is in a cliff wall without being detected.

As for your comment about Kim and his yacht, who says they haven't done that? They have gotten closer than South Korean, USN or UK subs to Pyong Yang and pussers dolphins hold the unofficial title for closeness.

CoupeKing · 19-10-2014, 10:25 PM

We should also cancel the 15 billion F-35 project too. Make our own planes....imagine the jobs.

bungarra · 20-10-2014, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

We should also cancel the 15 billion F-35 project too. Make our own planes....imagine the jobs.

We could have built them under licence under the original agreement, the only allied nation that was going to have the opportunity, which was changed by Stephen Smith when he bacme Defence Minister as he felt we had no skills to build them.

He obviously forgot the aircraft we have built here for the RAAF like:

Mirage III
F/A18
Nomad
Canberra
Lincoln

As when it was pointed out to him our previous abilities, he went very quiet.

We probably would have had one squadron up by now and fix the issues as we go just like we did with every aircraft we built here.

cheap · 20-10-2014, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungarra

Considering it was done under "war like" conditions during a RimPac excercise, it is not "staged" just an edited verison of 24 hours of evasion and attack. Just for your information, the Collins crews have recieved medals and citations for intelligence gathering off the coasts of China and North Korea from Australia and allied navies.

They got these awards for doing what other nations faield to do, knock on the door and not get caught. The Collins has so far been the only Allied submarine to get clear shots of the entry to China's Hainan Submarine Base and photos and mapped the channels to access the entry point which is in a cliff wall without being detected.

As for your comment about Kim and his yacht, who says they haven't done that? They have gotten closer than South Korean, USN or UK subs to Pyong Yang and pussers dolphins hold the unofficial title for closeness.

War like conditions = controlled
Staged = there was a film crew on board
They probably got citations for bravey and determination, as no one could have imagined a Collins able to sail so far and for so long without damaging itself or crew.

Hainan Submarine Base, there are dozens of images of the base on the net.

Look at what the "baddies" are building, http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_096_submarine maybe we could buy a few of these, they are probably built using our iron ore and coal.

bungarra · 21-10-2014, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheap

War like conditions = controlled
Staged = there was a film crew on board .

Ok, if you think war games are controlled and not played to real life sequences and obviously as you knwo it was so well staged, you were on the film crew.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheap

They probably got citations for bravey and determination, as no one could have imagined a Collins able to sail so far and for so long without damaging itself or crew.

Good to see you can belittle people who are willing to put their lives on the line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheap

Hainan Submarine Base, there are dozens of images of the base on the net.

Google images of a few sattelite passes not up close and personal like the subs got and the entrance is not visible by sattelite, just overlay renderings showing what Janes and others think it looks like. The normal ship harbour is very visible, maybe your intelligence briefing needs updating on the differnce of the two bases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheap

Look at what the "baddies" are building, http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_096_submarine maybe we could buy a few of these, they are probably built using our iron ore and coal.

Our wepaons systems would be incompatable as would our missile tech. We should be buying Ohio Class from the US or the Astute Class from the UK if we were going for this type of boat. Australia would never go for this type of boat as it would upset our neighbours in Indonesia and China.

pottery beige · 23-10-2014, 10:46 PM

solid posts bungs

dolphins and boats

xxx000 · 23-10-2014, 11:02 PM

remember it takes so much more effort to have a negative outlook on everything, the reason being is that things aren't that bad after all

Itsme · 23-10-2014, 11:56 PM

This topic has more Admirals commenting here than what the Australian navy has.

pottery beige · 25-10-2014, 09:21 AM

Anyone in SA looking for something to do tomoza

http://www.whatsonforadelaidefamilie...y-And-Kids-561

pottery beige · 26-10-2014, 02:30 PM

^^wow^^

I highly recommended to get along to one of these days if you get the opportunity

Great experience to get up and close with the guys and girls of our Defense Force

So much pride and so much proud of them all

Brilliant experience

Franco Cozzo · 26-10-2014, 03:05 PM

When I pulled into Melbourne earlier this week there were two military ships in Port Melbourne:

One was the HMAS Arunta and I dunno what the other one was.

**buggerlugs** · 26-10-2014, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheap

I would preferred we invest in thermo-nuclear weapons with regional delivery capability. By far the best bang for the buck. But some hopeless left wing government signed the NPT in 1973 and we've be beholdent ever since to other country "protecting our security". The same mod that signed the NPT tends to bite the hand that protects us too - go figure!

Here we go again, your like a broken record.......

**PridenJoy** · 26-10-2014, 03:26 PM

Arunta is 151, I think 154 is HMAS Parramatta

Franco Cozzo · 26-10-2014, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PridenJoy

Arunta is 151, I think 154 is HMAS Parramatta

Both tiny to the cruise ship behind it though, I know which one I'd rather be on lol.

pottery beige · 26-10-2014, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Both tiny to the cruise ship behind it though, I know which one I'd rather be on lol.

ones with old bags

bungarra · 26-10-2014, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PridenJoy

Arunta is 151, I think 154 is HMAS Parramatta

Spot on with FFH numbers.

HMAS Anzac (FFH 150) (Currently in dry dock. BAE Systems working hard to get her ready for Gallipolli)
HMAS Arunta (FFH 151)
HMAS Warramunga (FFH 152)
HMAS Stuart (FFH 153)
HMAS Parramatta (FFH 154)
HMAS Ballarat (FFH 155)
HMAS Toowoomba (FFH 156)
HMAS Perth (FFH 157)

Road_Warrior · 27-10-2014, 12:47 PM

Also note the vessel on the left has the new whizz-bang Australian developed phased array radar

SB076 · 27-10-2014, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungarra

We could have built them under licence under the original agreement, the only allied nation that was going to have the opportunity, which was changed by Stephen Smith when he bacme Defence Minister as he felt we had no skills to build them.

He obviously forgot the aircraft we have built here for the RAAF like:

Mirage III
F/A18
Nomad
Canberra
Lincoln

As when it was pointed out to him our previous abilities, he went very quiet.

We probably would have had one squadron up by now and fix the issues as we go just like we did with every aircraft we built here.

Australia can build some pretty impressive high tech gear, some of the F35 is built here (components) and to add to the above we have developed hovering rocket technology (Nulka) and we do work with other systems (SCRAM jets etc)

pottery beige · 28-10-2014, 10:33 PM

hey cheap,

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-2...hnston/5845520

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-2...158?section=sa

Road_Warrior · 30-10-2014, 07:45 PM

Scuttlebutt "around the traps" at the moment certainly seems to be that the subs will go offshore, and the "consolation prize" will be a local build of frigates to replace the FFG-7 vessels and later the ANZAC class. So at least 10 ships, possibly up to 15 if they look at replacing all the frigates on a like-for-like basis.

They should build the 4th AWD as well.

Cashie · 30-10-2014, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

When I pulled into Melbourne earlier this week there were two military ships in Port Melbourne:

image

One was the HMAS Arunta and I dunno what the other one was.

Brings back some memories of my old home...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Scuttlebutt "around the traps" at the moment certainly seems to be that the subs will go offshore, and the "consolation prize" will be a local build of frigates to replace the FFG-7 vessels and later the ANZAC class. So at least 10 ships, possibly up to 15 if they look at replacing all the frigates on a like-for-like basis.

They should build the 4th AWD as well.

That's what the media is starting to report now..

pottery beige · 30-10-2014, 08:29 PM

lol@themedia

word on the street is positive things - still way off an announcement tho

**GasoLane** · 31-10-2014, 12:40 PM

Here ya go PB, you need to start building something like these at the Port

http://www.gizmag.com/u-boat-worx-hp...76a81-91269793

pottery beige · 31-10-2014, 01:44 PM

ha! now that would be cool as ****

pottery beige · 31-10-2014, 04:41 PM

lool the media calming down just a bit

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-3...798?section=sa

bits and bobs of positive feedback flowing from gumbyment regarding more ships

subs - crickets

read into that what you will

mik · 31-10-2014, 07:17 PM

who knows what the suits are cooking up, these dudes talk about time frames(maybe they are a talkin a different time frame ),
but perhaps if they intend buying subs from over seas , its a buy now from japan ..................... but pay later situation, which makes it easier to juggle the books and the budget ???? ........... or maybe im just a cynical old bastard where pollies are concerned ??

pottery beige · 08-11-2014, 07:44 AM

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/busine...-1227116170598

Road_Warrior · 13-11-2014, 06:25 PM

https://defence-ministers.govspace.g...-fremantle-wa/

Quote:

Today, our Collins capability puts the strong chance that an enemy may encounter an Australian submarine in our strategic maritime approaches.

The introduction of the Future Submarine capability will transform an enemy’s strategic calculation. They will know without doubt that they will encounter an Australian submarine in our strategic maritime approaches and if they fight they will lose.

Boom tish.

pottery beige · 13-11-2014, 09:01 PM

boat dudes call them targets

a semi positive spin from our Defence Minister

see where it goes

cheap · 25-11-2014, 10:18 PM

Defence Minister doesn't trust Australian shipbuilder to make 'a canoe'

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politi...25-11tqv7.html

Defence Minister David Johnston says he wouldn't trust the government's own shipbuilding firm to "build a canoe", seriously denting hopes the next fleet of submarines will be made locally.

The extraordinary remark comes as the government weighs up whether the replacement for the Collins Class submarine will be built in Australia or outsourced overseas.

The Adelaide-based government shipbuilder ASC would be certain to play a role in any local work on the new submarines.

The firm is also central to the $8 billion project to build Australia's most powerful ever warship, the Air Warfare Destroyer, and is responsible for sustainment work on the Collins Class.

But in response to questions from the Opposition in the Senate on Tuesday afternoon, Senator Johnston took aim at ASC over its recent poor performance on the three Air Warfare Destroyer ships, which is deeply over budget and beset by delays.

"They're $350 million over budget on three Air Warfare Destroyer builds. I'm being conservative. It's probably more than $600 million, but because the data is so bad, I can't tell you.

"You wonder why I'm worried about ASC and wonder what they're delivering to the Australian taxpayer? You wonder why I wouldn't trust them to build a canoe?"

Senator Johnston has repeatedly said in the past that local shipbuilders including ASC would need to lift their game to win the new submarine work, but Tuesday's remarks go much further.

They came amid a stoush in Parliament over the projected cost of building the new submarines locally, which the ASC itself put during a Senate hearing last week at $18 billion to $24 billion for 12 boats – figures the government dismissed but which Labor seized on to back the case for building them in Australia.

The Australian Strategic Policy Institute however has found 12 new boats would cost about $36 billion – generally seen as the most thorough independent estimate.

A spokeswoman for ASC declined to comment and referred questions to the office of Finance Minister Mathias Cormann, who serves as the firm's shareholder on behalf of the federal government.

Senator Cormann's office did not respond to Fairfax Media's enquiries by deadline.

Labor swiftly leapt on Senator Johnston's remarks, demanding that he return to the Senate chamber and apologise to the workers of ASC, though Shadow Defence Minister Stephen Conroy stopped short of calling for the minister to resign.

The Opposition has been running a hard campaign against any proposal to build the next fleet of submarines overseas.

The government is understood to have been enthusiastic several months ago to pursue a deal with Japan for a version of its Soryu Class boat. But since then, it appears that concerns in Japan about sharing such sensitive technology, along with dogged counter-lobbying by Germany, France and Sweden, have thrown open the field.

Government MPs in South Australia are also understood to be feeling heat over the diversion of potential manufacturing jobs if the submarine work is sent abroad.

The European countries have all said that at least some of the building work could be done in Adelaide.

The Prime Minister's Office released a statement on Tuesday saying: "Whilst ASC has had challenges meeting the Government's cost and schedule expectations of the Air Warfare Destroyer program, we are working closely with ASC on a reform strategy to improve shipyard performance and productivity.