Euro cars - image match reality?

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Probably explains why the big 3 German brands are still trying to avoid 5 year warranties.


I had 2 VW vans that both got to 300,000km however the costs of keeping them running in their last 3-6 months before I dumped them was rediculous. They drove beautifully right up to the trade-in however as work vehicles just not smart,..the routine was... break down, tow back, empty contents, hire replacement van, work twice as hard to catch up on lost time, fix van, pay between $1000 to $6,000, pay rental company, transfer contents and do it again a few months later...
.

I hear the same story a lot with Merc Sprinters. Crazy up keeping costs.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

I hear the same story a lot with Merc Sprinters. Crazy up keeping costs.

I've often wondered how long the ambulance fleets keep their ones as they obviously work them hard and they carry a constant heavy load I'm assuming.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I've often wondered how long the ambulance fleets keep their ones as they obviously work them hard and they carry a constant heavy load I'm assuming.

It was usually anywhere from 180,000km - 270,000km for a VIC Ambulance - I did my apprenticeship building them, they're much more expensive than a cop car to replace and they get used harder, it's constantly close to it's maximum payload and how many lights and sirens runs a shift they do, heaps.

They'd always be coming in to be decommissioned beaten up, engine lights on etc.

If anyone is in VIC and they see a Sprinter with a big fibre glass rear wing on it with work lights in it - that's one of our old ambulances living on as a courier

The patient transporters used by companies like NPT will go on further, had a few with 700,000 on the clock but they run their vehicles into the ground.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I've often wondered how long the ambulance fleets keep their ones as they obviously work them hard and they carry a constant heavy load I'm assuming.

I cringe when I see a motorhome/campervan version, constantly overweight, (usually tell by looking at the rear tyres) at least they are not driven hard but when its your home you can not afford for it to be off the road being fixed.
I notice there are a lot of Fiat based MH's constantly being sold lately.

[jpblue1000]

I've acquired a '99 S40 Volvo for fun. Car has been in the family since new. Only thing I've had to repair is the electric aerial, $19, and replace a slightly sagging headlining!
It's 20 years old 243k, and on original shock absorbers, bushes, rack, and rear brakes. No rust, all electrics work, doesn't use oil, no rattles.
Oh driver's leather seat has a year in the swab...which is expensive.
I've since put 18's in it and lowered it, about to adapt some big *** brembos and put a BTCC wing in the back. Will modifying it ruin it's longevity?
Great car and served mum well for 20 years.
JP

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

I cringe when I see a motorhome/campervan version, constantly overweight, (usually tell by looking at the rear tyres) at least they are not driven hard but when its your home you can not afford for it to be off the road being fixed.
I notice there are a lot of Fiat based MH's constantly being sold lately.

I was looking at parts data last week and I was wondering why Fiat Ducato is the fastest moving rotor in TAS and QLD.

Turns out it's the most popular van to be converted to MH these days, and TAS and QLD have a tonne of MH tourism.

Back in the day we built a LWB super single rear axle Sprinter as a pressure cleaning truck, should have been a light truck but customer was insisting on Sprinter.

It was 1100kg overweight before it had its 1000L of water it could carry, I was under it dry and the leaf springs on the rear were inverted.

It was chopping out pads and tyres between services

Oh and it caught on fire once

[ryeman]

I can remember back to the 50s and 60s when battery and shockers would need replacing shortly after the 1 year warranty expired........not that they were covered anyway.
Today there are no bad cars really, just less desirable ones.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by lra

I have always been of the opinion, if can't afford to buy a Euro car new, then you can't afford the maintenance on a used one.

Just goes to show that you can't believe everything you hear

[happy1]

Hi Ryeman,
how is that '1.6 turbo e-THP EAT6' holding up?

I had the same engine in a 308 wagon that I owned for a year recently, and mine clogged up with carbon, had check-engine light, had faulty bypass valve on the turbocharger. Mine had only 90k on the odometer, and had according to previous owner already had 2 full rebuilds of the cylinder head. But other than that a lovely car

Oh by the way, the exact same engine sits in Mini and BMWs also.
On the BMW it is mounted in a way that you can walnut blast the intake valves while still in the car every 25k km to get rid of the carbon deposits, but unfortunately on the Peugeot the engine needs to come out of the vehicle due to sitting too close to the windscreen.

I don't know how Peugeot Australia is getting away from having to give lifetime warranty on this, or a buy-back program for all their troubled cars.
Cheers,

[ryeman]

44k @5.2/100 on E10.
Sweet as - but the Model 3 beckons this ageing guy who simply wants a taste of the future


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[PG2]

Originally Posted by ryeman

44k @5.2/100 on E10.
Sweet as - but the Model 3 beckons this ageing guy who simply wants a taste of the future


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Annnnnnd it only took 40 posts...


Let's not allow this thread turn into another Tesla/Electric car thread. Any further posts about Tesla/Elon/Electric Cars will be deleted.

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by PG2

Annnnnnd it only took 40 posts...





Let's not allow this thread turn into another Tesla/Electric car thread. Any further posts about Tesla/Elon/Electric Cars will be deleted.

Certainly not, but I have to explain why I’m moving into a different world by selling it.
The fuel efficiency pays for itself.....if it actually becomes apparent, as opposed to the ‘we all know’ story.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[XR Martin]

We had sprinter vans at work and I was surprised how good they were. Did 150k-200k with only a minor hiccup here and there.
Much better than the Renaults they replaced, an which did engines, transmissions, ecus etc.
But now we've got crafters...

[mike_nofx]

Your review of your BMW (and basically any euro car in general) is what people have known for decades: They are nice cars when everything is working, but have your wallet ready when something goes wrong. And it WILL go wrong. Often.

[Franco Cozzo]

I'm at the point where I'm shopping around for a new daily, I keep coming back to FG MKII Falcon Ecoboost or VF Commodore - the Commodore would essentially double my fuel cost as I'm coming from a TDCI Focus that does 5.5L/100km all day every day regardless of how much I beat on it.

I've been considering 2010 onward BMW 330d - 3L TD I6, it would be good on fuel and still pack a punch with some basic mods and tuning, I'm not interested in driving some torqueless ****heap (inb4 SIDIDIDIDI V6 jokes) as I want something with some balls but its still good on fuel within reason.

But its a Euro, and Euro means expensive.

I keep coming back to Falcon or Commodore

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I'm at the point where I'm shopping around for a new daily, I keep coming back to FG MKII Falcon Ecoboost or VF Commodore - the Commodore would essentially double my fuel cost as I'm coming from a TDCI Focus that does 5.5L/100km all day every day regardless of how much I beat on it.

I've been considering 2010 onward BMW 330d - 3L TD I6, it would be good on fuel and still pack a punch with some basic mods and tuning, I'm not interested in driving some torqueless ****heap (inb4 SIDIDIDIDI V6 jokes) as I want something with some balls but its still good on fuel within reason.

But its a Euro, and Euro means expensive.

I keep coming back to Falcon or Commodore

Butbutbut...you owned and loved a 7 series!

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Butbutbut...you owned and loved a 7 series!

Adolf was great! Just a little too slow - 3.5L V8 with electronic trickery and an extra gear in an attempt to make up for 2000kg of 7 series







It was the best $2000 car I've ever bought

Someone kept calling me 'Jeeves' though when I was driving it around

To put it into perspective, has anyone driven a standard VN-VS Statesman/Caprice with boat anchor Holden 304? Imagine that level of power, except 450kg heavier with less torque, 0-100 took about 30 minutes, but 100-200 seemed to come up faster

If I sold the Lebonator I'd probably look to replace it with either an E32/E38 750iL if I could find one cheap, one camshaft per bank, less electronic trickery, just lots of cylinders and 5 litres

[kevino]

I have got a similar issue. Coming out of an Lz Focus.
I keep arriving at ZB Commodore. 2 litres. 191 kw and 350 nm of torque.
FGX and VF 2 are getting on now.
ZB is a value or bargain buy. Built in Germany.
My early LZ is a German build up to 110000 absolutely no issues.
The ZB motor and gearbox are made in the USA and from research I be done are great.

[Ben73]

I really want an original 90's model BMW 8 Series. However the main reason I don't want it is because it's a 90's BMW 8 Series.


I'm a pretty big BMW fan. Mercedes AMGs are also great, but I have heard more bad things about Mercedes over BMW.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

If I sold the Lebonator I'd probably look to replace it with either an E32/E38 750iL if I could find one cheap, one camshaft per bank, less electronic trickery, just lots of cylinders and 5 litres

The 12s are even worse when it comes to electronics.
Has two ecus, one to control each cylinder bank as no ecu was powerful in the day to control both.

I'd love an E38 too but with an LS engine instead.

[ryeman]

A mate of mine had a 540 which had the water cooled alternator.
The loom seal failed and the fried instrument panel and labour cost him ~ $15k.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[UTXR8]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

I think they went too complex for emissions for eg. look at the VW Twincharger - brilliant concept, power and economy, petrol turbo and supercharger. In the execution, it was complex, the clutch for the SC bolted onto the water pump iirc, that's before you get to the mechatronics and DSG gearbox which also was complex to improve economy

sometimes a big dumb simple solution is the best bet, especially in Oz

have had a 2014 jetta since new....never had a single problem with it...7 speed auto...1.4 twin charge....

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by ryeman

A mate of mine had a 540 which had the water cooled alternator.
The loom seal failed and the fried instrument panel and labour cost him ~ $15k.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

That's how I got my 7 series, it was a customer's car with the water cooled alternator housed inside the block.

Alternator RRP $2500
8+ hours labour to replace

Mind you it also crapped out it's timing chain guides at 130,000km

Originally Posted by XR Martin

The 12s are even worse when it comes to electronics.
Has two ecus, one to control each cylinder bank as no ecu was powerful in the day to control both.

I'd love an E38 too but with an LS engine instead.

While they've got two ECU's, distributors and throttle bodies they don't have VVTI and electronically controlled thermostats, 4x 02 sensors etc - M70/M73 V12 is mechanically simple compared to the M60/M62.

E38 with an LS engine is a cracker idea, absolutely.

Mine was M62TUB35 engine, too much hassle for 177KW

[roKWiz]

Franco, What you need is right under your nose.....
a Cav, Sportmans' edition

[ryeman]

[QUOTE=Franco Cozzo;6371619]That's how I got my 7 series, it was a customer's car with the water cooled alternator housed inside the block.



Alternator RRP $2500

8+ hours labour to replace



Yep, apparently the alternator had to deal with such electrical demand the cooling fans would have been too noisy so they went with mixing fluid and sparks separated by a weak point.
Good in German theory.........



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[XR Martin]

Can only imagine the hours and cost involved in doing something simple like a exhaust manifold gasket in a BMW triple turbo diesel.

[ryeman]

Yeah, if you think diesels of today will save you sufficiently on fuel bills think again.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by ryeman

Yep, apparently the alternator had to deal with such electrical demand the cooling fans would have been too noisy so they went with mixing fluid and sparks separated by a weak point.
Good in German theory.........

I think the problem was (still) constant heat, not the coolant.

Have just acquired a Brocksport 850 wagon with wobbly autobox; no need for it, no value in it, too young for historic rego, seems too good for scrap.

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

I think the problem was (still) constant heat, not the coolant.

The coolant got up the loom of the 540.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[happy1]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Can only imagine the hours and cost involved in doing something simple like a exhaust manifold gasket in a BMW triple turbo diesel.

Hi,
Anything 'top model' from the Euro manufacturers will incur some crazy cost of ownership after the warranty has expired.
Think of the Touareg V10 diesel for example, it would cost a fair bit to get parts for that since there are so many of everything. Valves, lifters, bearings, pistons, injectors, etc.

The MB AMG 6.3 engine is almost 'non-repairable' due to lack of access to parts. MB are apparently limiting access to parts as they want the engines back to Germany for overhaul. (at a shocking price of up $60k to $90k for a new or exchange engine).

I was purchasing some M3 parts for my BMW, the spares prices for the M-cars have like an extra digit on the back! Easily 10 times the price of what other manufacturer or aftermarket sell similar parts for.

Another Euro make that deserves some negative attention is AUDI. I believe their cars are often engineered to spend a crazy amount of time in the workshop. Who else makes cars that require full strip-down of the front-end of the vehicle to do timing belt? (A6 TDI timing belt is a 15 hour job). Their parts prices are also very high.

Porsche is apparently the opposite, very service friendly, and high km interval between services compared with others. Also generally very reliable and high quality. But some of their parts prices could be more than for the average car, so if you are looking at an older European super-car, pick a Porsche.

Cheers,