Help!!! Stalling??? Choking?

honda99ex · 29-12-2010, 03:34 PM

99 AU Ford Falcon Forte with the I6

Everytime the car is 'cold' (not turned on for more than a day) the car starts but idles rough like it's going to stall. I need to rev the engine just to stop it from cutting out. For the first 25km or so, if I stop at the light same deal. Like it's going to stall. When the gf drives the car daily, it rarely happens but once it isn't started for just a day it does this dying thing...

Changed oil, air filter, spark plugs, o2 sensor, reset ECU, cleaned the ISC, battery was replaced about a year ago (history unknown).

What could it be???? Fuel filter, seals????

Help!!!

Happy Holidays.
Cheers Alex

Mr Hardware · 29-12-2010, 04:22 PM

My vote is for spark plug leads. Either that or check for vacuum leaks, pcv condition etc.

honda99ex · 29-12-2010, 05:36 PM

I'll put the leads on the to do list. I actually have them, just havent had the time...

How do I check the vacuum?

Thanks.

Any other thoughts??? Only after sitting for a while... Otherwise she's pretty smooth for an 11 year old beater...

Alex

Mr Hardware · 29-12-2010, 07:37 PM

Vacuum leaks happen usually when hoses split or fall off. Just check all the smallish rubber hoses around the top of your motor.
Good work on doing all you have so far. Do fuel filter for the hell of it too.

honda99ex · 29-12-2010, 10:42 PM

Thanks Mr. Hardware.

I tried searching the site and I did a whole bunch of things that I thought would solve it. Will look over the car this weekend, then plan on doing the leads and fuel filter. Need to get me some jack stands though...

will report back on the progress.

Alex

honda99ex · 30-12-2010, 02:41 PM

So I looked under the hood...

From the top, only the hose going into the air intake valve was loose. I put a hose clamp on that but didn't do anything to the problem.

Also what should I be looking for at the pcv valve?

The only other things that puzzle me are

Behind the passenger side headlamp, clipped into the frame is an open ended black tube that ends about 3 inches away from the intake. From the front of the car you have to curl your fingers under the ledge to feel it. I can trace the tube back into an opening near the front of the wheel well. What is that? No wires sticking out or anything. Just a black 0.5cm tube... What does this tube do? It's a rigid tube with little flex. More plasticky than rubbery.

Only other empty electrical connection I see is the white plug near the washer bottle. The black is plugged into the pump but the white one is hanging. Probably not relevant here.

Alex

AMB · 30-12-2010, 02:57 PM

That stiff black tube is suppose to connect to a rubber vacuum hose under the inlet manifold, somewhere near the middle, have a look around and you will see a loose rubber hose hanging there that it will fit neatly into. The hose wraps around and goes into the manifold below the throttle body.

honda99ex · 30-12-2010, 11:54 PM

I have the Max Ellery's which isn't worth the paper it's printed on...

Took out the PCV. I jiggled it around, the middle bit just flops up and down. So I swapped it with a repco one. The middle bit of the new one doesn't flop up and down. Didn't stop the idle issues. Still kind of does this feels like it's going to stall... Didn't go for a drive, just let it sit. Maybe it'll get better with time?

I didn't see any loose rubber hoses. I went to my mates i6 but she had an lpg and it doesn't have the hose I'm asking about. In the picture I have it in my hand near the radiator support. The other end of that tube goes into the wheel well. From that bundle, one black tube goes into the intake manifold, one goes towards the firewall behind the washer reservoir, one is in my hand. What should that be connected to???

Need to get jack stands still to do the leads...

Any input appreciated.

Happy Holidays.

Alex

honda99ex · 01-01-2011, 02:23 PM

Happy 2011

Doing spark plug leads tomorrow.

Anyone know what that tube in the pic is supposed to be connected to? Looked like it had tape on it to secure it to something. Thanks.

4ford · 01-01-2011, 02:52 PM

Hi "Honda99ex"...

I also drive an 01 AU2 6, and that tube you show I also found clipped the same way in my car, and open ended the same way, with the other end disappearing down thru a grommet just outboard of where your hand is shown.

As a result, I'm thinking this one is not relevant to your problem!

Cheers..

AMB · 01-01-2011, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4ford

Hi "Honda99ex"...

I also drive an 01 AU2 6, and that tube you show I also found clipped the same way in my car, and open ended the same way, with the other end disappearing down thru a grommet just outboard of where your hand is shown.

As a result, I'm thinking this one is not relevant to your problem!

Cheers..

Yeh its not the tube I was thinking about in my above post. Maybe its the overflow for the charcoal canister thingo. Is the canister still inside the guard on AU2?

honda99ex · 03-01-2011, 02:20 AM

Thanks 4Ford - it's so weird to have a tube just open there... Still not clear where it goes to...

Changed the leads today with a set of Bosch. I did a long freeway run and it was marginally better but again when it is warm it always feels better. Definitely not gone for good. It feels like a rhythmic hum... Like the car will be idling smooth as and then it kind of sputters in rhythm... Other thoughts? Coil pack?? Just hate dumping money if I'm guessing. Can I run a diagnostic or something?

'Cleaned' the throttle body again while I had the intake off though it was recently cleaned so I barely got any gunk out.

Also reading the forums could it be the coolant temp sensor?

Cheers

mik · 03-01-2011, 02:37 AM

as MR Hardware mentioned, i would do the fuel filter regardless, but i`m thinking coil pack, how is the general condition of the engine, burning oil , blowing smoke? how many k`s? Edit: its not on lpg is it??

honda99ex · 03-01-2011, 12:21 PM

I bought the car this past winter. The gf uses it as I have my work truck.

Came with ~104000 km, now at 108500 km. She uses it just for runs to Uni so not much. Two female driver history before I purchased it. The first owner was religious about log book service. The second owner was religiously against it (she basically did zero service while she had the car for 50,000km).

Engine is petrol only I6. Oil leaking but at the drain bolt because I used a bad washer. Still over 6 months haven't had to top up yet so not too badly. Not burning smoke.

Anyone in WA want to teach me how to do a coil pack and fuel filter. Couldn't for the life of me figure out how to get to the screws of the coil pack. I did the leads by just sticking my hand in there.

I'll try to get on it the next weekend.

Alex

honda99ex · 03-01-2011, 12:45 PM

Wouldn't let me edit the prior post.

Things I have done which are probably unrelated - new o2 sensor, new cat back exhaust (stock), coolant change...

Ugghhh

sd1800 · 03-01-2011, 10:40 PM

Have we checked the ECT sensor??

jrh001 · 03-01-2011, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by honda99ex

.... Anyone in WA want to teach me how to do a coil pack and fuel filter. Couldn't for the life of me figure out how to get to the screws of the coil pack. I did the leads by just sticking my hand in there.

There's a 'howto' for the coil pack here: http://www.fordforums.com.au/vbporta...article&id=733

JH

honda99ex · 03-01-2011, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sd1800

Have we checked the ECT sensor??

Is there a way to check it or do you mean replace it?
I mentioned it in 2 posts back....
Is this a ford only part or can I get it at repco...

If this is reasonably priced I may opt to do this before the coil pack. Reason being it only really happens when 'cold' and improves warm. Or at least I think it does...

CRAIGM01 · 03-01-2011, 11:16 PM

idler controler bolted to the throttle body is dirty.
clean it with wd40 or an accelerant and make sure it has no sticky spots when operating the choke action.
hope it helps

honda99ex · 03-01-2011, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrh001

There's a 'howto' for the coil pack here: http://www.fordforums.com.au/vbporta...article&id=733

JH

Yeah I've read that. I have an AU1 and my coil pack has stagger posts i think with 4 screws? When I did the leads I wasn't paying attention... I don't remember feeling the screws or being able to feeling them even with the air box out. Do I have to access it from underneath? I crawled under the car and just saw the control arm thing staring at me...

honda99ex · 03-01-2011, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRAIGM01

idler controler bolted to the throttle body is dirty.
clean it with wd40 or an accelerant and make sure it has no sticky spots when operating the choke action.
hope it helps

Done already...

Thanks for the suggestions everyone!!
Listed here are my attempts so far

-ECU Reset twice
-ISC/idler controller cleaned
-Throttle Body cleaned (can eat off of it)
-New air filter
-New oil and filter
-New coolant
-New o2 sensor
-New stock exhaust cat back
-New spark plugs and leads (ignition coil pack on the maybe list)
-New PCV Valve
-Checked vacuum (no apparent leaks)

Still trying to determine the next steps
I'm thinking
-ECT Sensor
-Coil Pack
-Fuel Pressure Regulator (Read some threads about other falcons having crap caught in the mesh - anyone seen this on the AU or cleaned the regulator before?)

Mr Hardware · 04-01-2011, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by honda99ex

It feels like a rhythmic hum... Like the car will be idling smooth as and then it kind of sputters in rhythm...

Do you mean like it'll just idle smoothly like usual then just go into a bit of a bluup bluup bluup bluup bluup then return to smooth?
If so, mine does that too at the moment. And I haven't tried anything so I don't know what it is! I have a feeling it's coilpack though but i've been trying not to do it for the longest time, and I know absolutely it's well over 100k old, probably 300k old.

honda99ex · 04-01-2011, 11:07 AM

No the bad idle is constant.
It is like a pulsating rhythm as in
smooth smooth shudder, smooth smooth shudder, smooth smooth shudder
one in a while it will go
smooth smooth shudder shudder shudder and nearly die

mik · 04-01-2011, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by honda99ex

Yeah I've read that. I have an AU1 and my coil pack has stagger posts i think with 4 screws? When I did the leads I wasn't paying attention... I don't remember feeling the screws or being able to feeling them even with the air box out. Do I have to access it from underneath? I crawled under the car and just saw the control arm thing staring at me...

if you have ramps its easier to do the coil pack from underneath imo, remember the good old old days when the coil was mounted in place nice to get at

Mr Hardware · 04-01-2011, 02:39 PM

Sounds like you got it worse than me alex

yeah mik is right on that account, whenever the cabbies used to think the falcons were a kind of boat we'd need to change the coilpak and it was always from underneath

honda99ex · 04-01-2011, 08:41 PM

I do tiny amounts of maintenance of my cars in the past but sometimes i just am scared off by not being able to finish off the work and then having a paper weight for a couple of weeks.

I had ramps but I posted about them squirting forward of the front tires and it being a general ***** to get up on. I remember on my civic it was super easy. I'm thinking it is FWD vs RWD thing. Anyway I hate the ramps I got here compared to the ones I had in the states. I put marks all up and down my driveway. Anyhow I sold the ramps so I don't have that issue any more.

My new issue is where to jack up the car and place the stands. This last time I tried using a combination of jacks behind the front mud guard on the piece of metal going from left to right. Then I sat the stand there as well. Should I be putting it on the metal beams that runs from front to back? Then I have to place them almost in the middle of the car which freaks me out... I tried searching but couldn't find the thread with the visual....

Anyway in terms of the stalling I talked to my local Ultra Tune and he said they'd run some test for $110. He says these things are a ***** and you can replace everything and still end up nowhere... Figure an educated guess is better than me throwing $$$ at it. I'll probably do the coil pack later when I can.

mik · 05-01-2011, 03:15 PM

i usually put the stands under the sub frame rails as you mentioned or under the lower control arms, jacking these is a bit of a pain, ford does`nt recomend jacking them by the alloy x member under the engine, i have a home made beam thing that i run from the x member under the motor to the x member under radiator so it shares the load, it has some locateing tabs so metal on metal it wont slide off while jacking, allthough on a couple of occasions when i could`nt find my beam thing amongst the car yard, i`ve just thrown a bit of 1" thick red gum plank or a hunk of railway sleeper on the jack and lifted away without trouble, i may be wrong but i suspect the problem with lifting them with jacks on their own(from the main alloy x member) is that the jack plate does`nt distribute weight evenly on the sort of v shaped member and it can break bits off weakening the beam, at times when i could`nt find blocks i`ve lifted the front 1 side at a time from the lower control arms , some times that meant running the tyres on bricks or planks to give a bit of extra clearance to get underneath, ( what you would`nt do to own a hoist

).

honda99ex · 07-01-2011, 03:31 PM

Update:

Had a long weekend so I thought I'd give the coil pack and fuel filter a go before taking it to the shop.

Changed the coil pack and the only things I can add that are different from the write up is
-I did mine with the car on the ground. It was tight but not a tough job just slow... From the top you can see what you are doing to unscrew the 4 bolts. With the car on stands I would imagine you would be doing it blind. With the car up definitely getting the pack in/out would be easier. I think the AU1 Coil Pack is bigger??
-I have an AU1. The bolts are staggered. And mine were 8mm not 7mm in the write up. Otherwise same procedure.
-I also removed the intake, not just the box. And unclipped a load of sensors to free up space. Just remember to plug them back in.

Took the opportunity to align my leads so they all say Bosch motorsports from the top.

I'm so vain and have OCD. When I did the leads last week I didn't pay attention and they were all sorts of sideways...

I just started her up and she idles better. Definitely different. Will take her for a run this evening.

One other question is on which side of the car is the fuel filter?

Thanks

Alex

sleeper393 · 08-01-2011, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by honda99ex

Update:

Had a long weekend so I thought I'd give the coil pack and fuel filter a go before taking it to the shop.

Changed the coil pack and the only things I can add that are different from the write up is
-I did mine with the car on the ground. It was tight but not a tough job just slow... From the top you can see what you are doing to unscrew the 4 bolts. With the car on stands I would imagine you would be doing it blind. With the car up definitely getting the pack in/out would be easier. I think the AU1 Coil Pack is bigger??
-I have an AU1. The bolts are staggered. And mine were 8mm not 7mm in the write up. Otherwise same procedure.
-I also removed the intake, not just the box. And unclipped a load of sensors to free up space. Just remember to plug them back in.

Took the opportunity to align my leads so they all say Bosch motorsports from the top.

I'm so vain and have OCD. When I did the leads last week I didn't pay attention and they were all sorts of sideways...

I just started her up and she idles better. Definitely different. Will take her for a run this evening.

One other question is on which side of the car is the fuel filter?

Thanks

Alex

passenger side, just near the diff housing and rear wheel arch

Mr Hardware · 08-01-2011, 11:45 AM

keen to hear you report back alex