So much for gun control - Page 4

devilcv8 · 04-08-2012, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

All the materials are still about and available without any restrictions whatsoever.

There was a news article a few weeks back about a Sydney bloke who was making and selling firearms. Some of what they showed looked very professional.

flappist · 05-08-2012, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cs123

How many of those guys still exist today or have the gun laws decimated the industry?

MAB are still there but that is about all. Almost all firearms are imported now, yet another manufacturing industry shut down.

2011G6E · 05-08-2012, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilcv8

There was a news article a few weeks back about a Sydney bloke who was making and selling firearms. Some of what they showed looked very professional.

To be perfectly blunt, anyone with a backyard machine shop (as little as a lathe with one or two special fittings (not even that if you use existing barrels off old rifles), a milling machine, and a few other bits and pieces) and who has the internet at home could make any sort of gun they want...

Keepleft · 05-08-2012, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HLC

I would be completely comfortable moving to a State in the USA where concealed-carry and home defense weapons are LEGAL.

Too much regulation, go open-carry. :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g71Vf...eature=related

Open carry in Hermosa Beach July 10, 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=dAINC4AJOr4

California had open carry for handguns, but I recall it was dropped Jan 2011. Perhaps under legal challenge.

flappist · 05-08-2012, 10:29 AM

I was not very impressed with the first video. The police were investigating a complaint. All he had to do was say his name etc. and show that he was not a threat and that would have been the end of it whereas he chose to be obstructive.

Freedom, respect and co-operation are not just a one way thing.......

HLC · 05-08-2012, 12:44 PM

Yeah, that first vid was a joke. The idiot could have just given his details and complied. He wasn't breaking a law, so why be so defensive about it. Being difficult for the sake of being difficult and wasting those officers time. They were just doing their job.

Keepleft · 05-08-2012, 08:11 PM

Some of those "activists" are big on their constitution, in the first vid example the 5th is mentioned. Seems more US folk these days stand-up to authority, and they must choose their words carefully in doing so.

Not supporting this ratbag (Vid 1) one way or the other, rather its interesting that a growing number wish not to be sheep?

http://finduslaw.com/us-constitution...h-amendments#1

We had similar situation in AUS once,- to go about our business unhindered, these days, we seem compelled to expain ourselves to virtually all and sundry, almost 'automatically'.

It'll be interesting to see how this UN gun control item is handled by the US congress.

Meanwhile in the South China Sea .. . . ..

zilo · 06-08-2012, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Part 3) The maximum number of semi auto rifles owned by shooters is ZERO, none, nill, nada.

The only non govt legal users of semi auto high powered rifles are professional feral animal control workers who must renew the license and registration every year and produce actual proof that the firearm is actually being used on a regular commercial basis.

Hmmm...I don't know how accurate that statement is mate.

My first gun 18 months ago, my experience....

Police booked me in to a 2 hour TAFE course in Geelong.
They told me I got all the questions correct....beauty!
I was offered a form to apply for my licence, they had 3 forms there...

A/B, C and D.

He explained the differences to me...
Liked the idea of the semi auto gun for shooting rabbits...just keep pulling the trigger as the little buggers run..

"You'll never get a C licence the instructor told me"...

I applied anyway...
Three weeks later I get a call from a sergeant in licencing asking me what the hell do I want a semi auto for?

I says..I don't ever want to be an expert shooter or olympic medallist, all I want to do is when I see three rabbits..I want to kill all three..not just one and then have to reload while the others all run away.
There was a pause on the phone and he replied "good point, will approve it on that basis"

"How much will it cost me I asked",

"It is free to primary producers" he says

Sure enough it arrives a week later, ...now to find a semi auto gun to buy...

Took me three months to find one to buy...they are rare as hens' teeth.
Most gun shops say they don't stock them cause crims would drive a semi through their window to get to it.
Anyway got the Ruger home, nice gun...

After a while someone complained about "the small scale war" that was happening next door....so police arrived, inspected all my stuff and said no worries mate, it's all good.
(I fired approx 1500 rounds into a target to setup the sights, the inbuilt laser etc)

They came the next week as well for a random inspection, told them it wasn't enough notice could they come back tomorrow cause I was busy with family visiting?
They said that would be fine...I did mention that another police unit had been around a week earlier and that all was good...okay they said we'll note that and let you know if we need to come back.

They didn't come back....I bought a used metal cupboard and dyno bolted it to the shed wall...it is secure alright.
After a while I figured that it makes a lot of noise going bangalangalangalang with 10x22 slugs at a time.

I get a few rabbits...well sometimes.. one or none), then they all hide for hours, so better get a quieter gun?
A high powered air rifle..a 0.22 calibre can kill a rabbit the gun shop man says... no probs..I buy one and yep...it is great!

But I needed another licence for that...the "A/B"
I rang them and they said if you want an A/B all you have to do is ask for one cause you already have the "C"...so I did...it arrived a week later.

But soon got sick of loading all the time in the air rifle...so....
I rang licencing and asked could I get a "suppressor" fitted to my semi auto cause it is far better than the air rifle at killing bunnies?

Took a while to get on to the right person...but yep...I have the application form on my desk and am filling it in this week.
I need a letter from them saying that I am allowed to import it.

My reason to them?

Neighbours on small acreages next door are complaining about the noise cause I like to go shooting at night with a light when the bunnies are most active..
I use two infrared spotlights mounted on the barrel, with a red laser dot so I can just carry teh gun on my hip and not have to sight up the target, easy..if the red dot is on the bunny, just pull the trigger.

Oh...of course I also bought a set of these night vision goggles on ebay.
You can walk almost right up to a group of bunnies in total darkness.
I know it seems really overkill, but only have to go out once a week now with the goggles instead of almost every night...

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-ATN-C...item1c1fa16cc4

flooded one · 06-08-2012, 12:23 AM

those goggles would be pretty good!!!

2011G6E · 06-08-2012, 08:10 AM

You just showed that the gun laws are working...you wanted a semi-auto for a specific purpose...to kill feral animals efficiently...and were able to prove your requirement satisfactorily to the authorities (and had a friendly cop) so you got it approved.

You mention a silencer Ugg...are you in South Australia by any chance? I thought they were the only state that still allowed "suppressors"...?

flappist · 06-08-2012, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugg

Hmmm...I don't know how accurate that statement is mate.

My first gun 18 months ago, my experience....

Police booked me in to a 2 hour TAFE course in Geelong.
They told me I got all the questions correct....beauty!
I was offered a form to apply for my licence, they had 3 forms there...

A/B, C and D.

He explained the differences to me...
Liked the idea of the semi auto gun for shooting rabbits...just keep pulling the trigger as the little buggers run..

"You'll never get a C licence the instructor told me"...

I applied anyway...
Three weeks later I get a call from a sergeant in licencing asking me what the hell do I want a semi auto for?

I says..I don't ever want to be an expert shooter or olympic medallist, all I want to do is when I see three rabbits..I want to kill all three..not just one and then have to reload while the others all run away.
There was a pause on the phone and he replied "good point, will approve it on that basis"

"How much will it cost me I asked",

"It is free to primary producers" he says

Sure enough it arrives a week later, ...now to find a semi auto gun to buy...

Took me three months to find one to buy...they are rare as hens' teeth.
Most gun shops say they don't stock them cause crims would drive a semi through their window to get to it.
Anyway got the Ruger home, nice gun...

After a while someone complained about "the small scale war" that was happening next door....so police arrived, inspected all my stuff and said no worries mate, it's all good.
(I fired approx 1500 rounds into a target to setup the sights, the inbuilt laser etc)

They came the next week as well for a random inspection, told them it wasn't enough notice could they come back tomorrow cause I was busy with family visiting?
They said that would be fine...I did mention that another police unit had been around a week earlier and that all was good...okay they said we'll note that and let you know if we need to come back.

They didn't come back....I bought a used metal cupboard and dyno bolted it to the shed wall...it is secure alright.
After a while I figured that it makes a lot of noise going bangalangalangalang with 10x22 slugs at a time.

I get a few rabbits...well sometimes.. one or none), then they all hide for hours, so better get a quieter gun?
A high powered air rifle..a 0.22 calibre can kill a rabbit the gun shop man says... no probs..I buy one and yep...it is great!

But I needed another licence for that...the "A/B"
I rang them and they said if you want an A/B all you have to do is ask for one cause you already have the "C"...so I did...it arrived a week later.

But soon got sick of loading all the time in the air rifle...so....
I rang licencing and asked could I get a "suppressor" fitted to my semi auto cause it is far better than the air rifle at killing bunnies?

Took a while to get on to the right person...but yep...I have the application form on my desk and am filling it in this week.
I need a letter from them saying that I am allowed to import it.

My reason to them?

Neighbours on small acreages next door are complaining about the noise cause I like to go shooting at night with a light when the bunnies are most active..
I use two infrared spotlights mounted on the barrel, with a red laser dot so I can just carry teh gun on my hip and not have to sight up the target, easy..if the red dot is on the bunny, just pull the trigger.

Oh...of course I also bought a set of these night vision goggles on ebay.
You can walk almost right up to a group of bunnies in total darkness.
I know it seems really overkill, but only have to go out once a week now with the goggles instead of almost every night...

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-ATN-C...item1c1fa16cc4

Cool story bro.....

You do realise that there are a lot of people on here who ACTUALLY know about all this stuff and will spot the about a dozen or so inconsistencies, inaccuracies and just plain Hollywood fantasies in your story.

But it is easily proven. Just post a pic of your Model 10/22 fitted with all the goodies on the bonnet or leaned up against a FG Falcon or other 2010++ car.

zilo · 06-08-2012, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

You just showed that the gun laws are working...you wanted a semi-auto for a specific purpose...to kill feral animals efficiently...and were able to prove your requirement satisfactorily to the authorities (and had a friendly cop) so you got it approved.

You mention a silencer Ugg...are you in South Australia by any chance? I thought they were the only state that still allowed "suppressors"...?

Yep, exactly right...if you legitimately need a gun for a purpose they will grant you your wish, it's just a tool for a job after all.

The silencer is for use in Victoria not SA,it's perfectly legal if you do it by their rules but they say I have to be involved in bunny work on at least two of my neighbours properties as well...that's easily arranged we all get along here.
Who wants to wake up sleeping kids a kilometre away, not me.

Flappist, no, I am not going to bother doing what you ask cause I don't like the idea of posting stuff like that on the internet....seems childish and argumentative anyway.

You will just have to take my word for it.

flappist · 06-08-2012, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugg

Yep, exactly right...if you legitimately need a gun for a purpose they will grant you your wish, it's just a tool for a job after all.

The silencer is for use in Victoria not SA,it's perfectly legal if you do it by their rules but they say I have to be involved in bunny work on at least two of my neighbours properties as well...that's easily arranged we all get along here.
Who wants to wake up sleeping kids a kilometre away, not me.

Flappist, no, I am not going to bother doing what you ask cause I don't like the idea of posting stuff like that on the internet....seems childish and argumentative anyway.

You will just have to take my word for it.

I thought you might say that

You are quite happy to tell everyone where you are and what you have but wouldn't show a pic of it.

A few problems with your story:
1) There is a mandataory 28 day cooling off period, even the Police cannot over ride that.
2) Cat C rifles are only available for primary producers or professionals, 5 acres in a semi built up area is not a primary producer.
3) Ruger 10/22s are easily available as they are held in stock at the importer in Brisbane (a personal friend of mine).
4) Silencers are Cat R weapons are are controlled Federally as well as by State laws. Even the Police themselves have to acquire a Federal exemption on a per weapon basis and have had them knocked back on most occasions.
5) The noise of a 10/22 is very low and would be difficult to even hear at 1000m let alone wake kids (why are there kids here?)
6) Sighting in a laser takes about 5 shots not 1500. The method used is to fix the rifle into a rest, fire a round and then move the dot to the hole. Repeat a couple of times to confirm.
Lasers are actually a joke for this purpose anyway as the light goes straight while the projectile follows a parabolic path due to gravity. The slower the bullet, the more the drop. This is compounded firstly by the laser not being coaxial with the bore introducing an azimuth error and by your wish to use a silencer which will require the bullet to be very slow.
7) The "bang" of a rifle is made up of several components.
a) The sonic boom of the gas burning outside the barrel after the bullet leaves
b) The sonic boom of the actual bullet
c) The sonic boom and impact of the air returning to the barrel as the burnt gas cools.
A silencer creates an extra chambre at the end of the barrel to cool and slow the gasses to reduce a) and c), the bullet must travel at under about 1100fps to prevent b)
Of course as you are using a 10/22 which operates by unlocked direct blowback some of the the gas escapes out the breach which ironically will be increased by the extra indiced pressure from the silences, that is it will actually be louder.

I used to do this for a living. I have made dozens if not hundreds of suppressed weapons from 22LR to 45LC using single shot, bolt and lever repeater, semi auto using blowback (10/22, F1,OMC, SAC9 etc), delayed roller lock (MP5, SP89, HK91) and delayed gas (F88, AR15, AR18,SG551, Mini 14 etc)

Oh and here is a pic of me with a MP5 (silencer not fitted) just in case you thought I too was making this all up.

HLC · 06-08-2012, 01:17 PM

Silencer on a .22? Lol just use Winchester Z's... You don't need to use stingers to drop a rabbit.

Jim Goose · 06-08-2012, 01:23 PM

Many, many yrs ago the QLD sert guys had invited us all to go fire some round of their MP5s.... sadly i missed out grrrrrrrrr (think i was away).

zilo · 06-08-2012, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

I thought you might say that

You are quite happy to tell everyone where you are and what you have but wouldn't show a pic of it.

No...I just don't like being called a liar unless i comply with silly requests.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

A few problems with your story:
1) There is a mandataory 28 day cooling off period, even the Police cannot over ride that.

So...who said there wasn't?

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

2) Cat C rifles are only available for primary producers or professionals, 5 acres in a semi built up area is not a primary producer.

You make assumptions that justify calling me a liar in public?
Read my post again, carefully.

Though i don't know why I bother engaging you at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

3) Ruger 10/22s are easily available as they are held in stock at the importer in Brisbane (a personal friend of mine).

So...how long ago did i say I got my Ruger?
And of course you know exactly what this friend had in stock 18 months ago?

Save me the laughing...please....

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

4) Silencers are Cat R weapons are are controlled Federally as well as by State laws. Even the Police themselves have to acquire a Federal exemption on a per weapon basis and have had them knocked back on most occasions.

So what, did i say I had mine approved yet?

Did you actually read what I posted?

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

5) The noise of a 10/22 is very low and would be difficult to even hear at 1000m let alone wake kids (why are there kids here?)

Rubbish....I even tried sub sonics.

I'll take the neighbours advice rather than yours, cause you haven't exactly been on the ball with your comments here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

6) Sighting in a laser takes about 5 shots not 1500. The method used is to fix the rifle into a rest, fire a round and then move the dot to the hole. Repeat a couple of times to confirm.

I don't care how quickly you did it, i was learning to use my gun and sighting it the trial and error way.

Have no interest in buying all the crap that a gun dealer would have in his shop, i just want it to work when i pull it out of the cupboard and know how to set it myself instead of driving 200k round trip to the gun shop.

But it's really none of your business.

have you ever thought that maybe because of attitude I have a semi auto and you don't?

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Lasers are actually a joke for this purpose anyway as the light goes straight while the projectile follows a parabolic path due to gravity. The slower the bullet, the more the drop. This is compounded firstly by the laser not being coaxial with the bore introducing an azimuth error and by your wish to use a silencer which will require the bullet to be very slow.

You obviously haven't done much with combination scopes where the laser is built into the stock scope.

But me? I now know how to adjust one in the paddock, without any tools instead of getting all the nonsense on the bench.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

7) The "bang" of a rifle is made up of several components.
a) The sonic boom of the gas burning outside the barrel after the bullet leaves
b) The sonic boom of the actual bullet
c) The sonic boom and impact of the air returning to the barrel as the burnt gas cools.

Did you google that for my benefit?

(Because I am not interested, all I know is it's 10 loud bangs)

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Of course as you are using a 10/22 which operates by unlocked direct blowback some of the the gas escapes out the breach which ironically will be increased by the extra indiced pressure from the silences, that is it will actually be louder.

A little bit more of a click out of the breach is insignificant in the big picture...so who cares about extra breach noise? Not me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

I used to do this for a living. I have made dozens if not hundreds of suppressed weapons from 22LR to 45LC using single shot, bolt and lever repeater, semi auto using blowback (10/22, F1,OMC, SAC9 etc), delayed roller lock (MP5, SP89, HK91) and delayed gas (F88, AR15, AR18,SG551, Mini 14 etc)

Well you sure don't know much about who can and can't get a semi auto in Australia.

You can post as much side track nonsense as you like, fact is you are wrong and i drew attention to the fact.

You call me a liar, make assumptions and extrapolate on them...

Pretty silly really...

**cs123** · 06-08-2012, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugg

You call me a liar, make assumptions and extrapolate on them...

Pretty silly really...

I'm not sure why you are continuing on with this. It's pretty clear that Flappist has considerable experience. Why don't you just let it be.

I think this thread may have run it's course anyhow. It was supposed to be about the future of household tech/fabrication with an admittedly far fetched scenario.

I think we should put it to bed now.

flappist · 06-08-2012, 03:47 PM

So now you are saying that you are a primary producer way out in the sticks, not a sporting shooter and you have a Cat C for that purpose which makes you a "professional" shooter which is who I said could own semi auto firearms. But that is not Cat D, centre fire longarms is it?

As far as rest, as Henri said go and buy a packet of Winchester Z/ZZ like these:
http://www.adelaidegunshop.com.au/in...emart&Itemid=2

They are so quiet I used to shoot them around the back yard.

zilo · 06-08-2012, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

So now you are saying that you are a primary producer way out in the sticks, not a sporting shooter and you have a Cat C for that purpose which makes you a "professional" shooter which is who I said could own semi auto firearms. But that is not Cat D, centre fire longarms is it?

As far as rest, as Henri said go and buy a packet of Winchester Z/ZZ like these:
http://www.adelaidegunshop.com.au/in...emart&Itemid=2

They are so quiet I used to shoot them around the back yard.

I always said I was a primary producer.

It's just that you didn't read anything except what you wanted to see.

I am not a professional shooter by Vic firearms licensing definition, please don't misquote legislation.

You posted misinformation and I caught you out.

Everything else you've posted is just window dressing.

Next time post facts please and learn to read.

gcmc2 · 06-08-2012, 04:45 PM

Hmm, I have to say shooting bullets around your back yard doesn't exactly scream responsible gun ownership.

It could actually get you some time in the old greybar hotel !

The courts would surely at least convert you into an unarmed man.

flappist · 06-08-2012, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gcmc2

Hmm, I have to say shooting bullets around your back yard doesn't exactly scream responsible gun ownership.

It could actually get you some time in the old greybar hotel !

The courts would surely at least convert you into an unarmed man.

Well that depends on how big your back yard is and what facilities you have doesn't it?
How about the back yard of a licensed armourer's premisis with apporpriate safety equipment pre 1996 in QLD?

flappist · 06-08-2012, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugg

I always said I was a primary producer.

It's just that you didn't read anything except what you wanted to see.

I am not a professional shooter by Vic firearms licensing definition, please don't misquote legislation.

You posted misinformation and I caught you out.

Everything else you've posted is just window dressing.

Next time post facts please and learn to read.

No actually I did read exactly what you wrote. A primary producer earns money from agriculture. You have been granted a licence for feral animal control on your land which is your "profession". You are a farmer not a shooter.
As I stated way back "Feral Animal Control" is required for high powered semi auto as in Cat D, yours is low powered Cat C which is available for primary production.

You cannot use legally that rifle in competition or recreational hunting which are the things that ordinary shooters do.

It appears that it is YOU who does not understand the privileges of your license.

HLC · 06-08-2012, 08:27 PM

As much as I want to see a reply to Flappist's post! Because I too know about Cat C/D licenses having worked at a range in Sydney (actually had to hand in my A/B when I moved to Perth), this thread has run it's course.

And for my 2c, if your neighbors can hear subsonic's, you are shooting too close to their house.