Now charging for what was warranty?

Timeshift · 09-05-2005, 02:15 PM

In January I bought an AUIII Forte manufactured 04/2002, which to date has now done 58,000k, and I've had a few niggles. Some sort of bolt on the transmission was broken causing unsmooth shifting two months ago, that was replaced, but now I have to get the burnt trans fluid replaced, $250 at ford, $150 at ultra tune. O-ring replaced (radiator still seems to have a bubbly hissy fit occasionally once the engine is off), a couple of other minor probs.

On friday I had it in to get looked at, due to accelleration cutting out when turning right with a fair amount of momentum on 1/3 or lower tank. Left it there in the morning, called them later on 20 mins before pick-up time and was told to give it another hour, arrived there not knowing the outcome. It was explained to me that it was the sock on the end of the fuel pump and it has been replaced under warranty. The car was demonstrated to me, all fixed, good as gold. Take the car home very happy.

Today, this morning, Monday morning, he calls me. He says Ford has rejected the warranty claim, the sock is a filter and can't be claimed under my 3 year new car warranty (which expires end of this month, looking to get another 3yr 160,000km for $895) and he says he'll charge me trade price $150 for it. I tell him i'll call him back. I call Office of Consumer Affairs who agree with me but tell me to call RAA (South Australia's RACV) as OCA specialise in used car non-new warranty. The RAA agrees with me, saying the work was carried out, I was not informed of the repair before it was carried out, and warranty forms were signed and that they should be bearing the cost. Excellent. I call the ford dealership guy back and tell him that i've spoken to OCA and RAA and that i'm not prepared to pay for it. He says Ok, come back to the dealership and i'll put the old filter back in. I tell him no, i signed warranty papers, OCA and RAA agree, i'm not in a position to give it back (what a crock of crap that the sock isn't covered under warranty). He says "Ok, thanks bud" in no particularly mean or nasty way, and ends the call.

Is this the last i'll hear of this?

Would it be unwise to go back to that dealership for future services or repairs?

Casper · 09-05-2005, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timeshift

In January I bought an AUIII Forte manufactured 04/2002, which to date has now done 58,000k, and I've had a few niggles. Some sort of bolt on the transmission was broken causing unsmooth shifting two months ago, that was replaced, but now I have to get the burnt trans fluid replaced, $250 at ford, $150 at ultra tune. O-ring replaced (radiator still seems to have a bubbly hissy fit occasionally once the engine is off), a couple of other minor probs.

On friday I had it in to get looked at, due to accelleration cutting out when turning right with a fair amount of momentum on 1/3 or lower tank. Left it there in the morning, called them later on 20 mins before pick-up time and was told to give it another hour, arrived there not knowing the outcome. It was explained to me that it was the sock on the end of the fuel pump and it has been replaced under warranty. The car was demonstrated to me, all fixed, good as gold. Take the car home very happy.

Today, this morning, Monday morning, he calls me. He says Ford has rejected the warranty claim, the sock is a filter and can't be claimed under my 3 year new car warranty (which expires end of this month, looking to get another 3yr 160,000km for $895) and he says he'll charge me trade price $150 for it. I tell him i'll call him back. I call Office of Consumer Affairs who agree with me but tell me to call RAA (South Australia's RACV) as OCA specialise in used car non-new warranty. The RAA agrees with me, saying the work was carried out, I was not informed of the repair before it was carried out, and warranty forms were signed and that they should be bearing the cost. Excellent. I call the ford dealership guy back and tell him that i've spoken to OCA and RAA and that i'm not prepared to pay for it. He says Ok, come back to the dealership and i'll put the old filter back in. I tell him no, i signed warranty papers, OCA and RAA agree, i'm not in a position to give it back (what a crock of crap that the sock isn't covered under warranty). He says "Ok, thanks bud" in no particularly mean or nasty way, and ends the call.

Is this the last i'll hear of this?

Would it be unwise to go back to that dealership for future services or repairs?

I think you did the right thing but there i no way I'd give them your car again, you know they are going to screw you around as much as possible now. New dealer time.

Kryton · 09-05-2005, 02:30 PM

nothing they can do about it but i would start looking for a new service dept that ISNT connected or associated with this one. all ford dealers service ford so at the end of the day he may just ring all ford service depts in your area and tell them to keep an eye out for you and to remove the sock when you come in next time.

Timeshift · 09-05-2005, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

nothing they can do about it but i would start looking for a new service dept that ISNT connected or associated with this one. all ford dealers service ford so at the end of the day he may just ring all ford service depts in your area and tell them to keep an eye out for you and to remove the sock when you come in next time.

Living in a capital city (Adelaide), I wouldnt expect a drone of one of Fords dealerships to take it upon himself, or go to the dealership manager who takes it upon himself to report it to each dealership in Adelaide... after all, it's only $150 which is a few cents to a Ford dealership.

I need a service on my car around about now too...

:

jonbays · 09-05-2005, 03:26 PM

Well you know I think the fuel tank filter sock is probably is fair enough to exclude from the warranty as it is a filter like the fuel line filter or oil filter and really only gets blocked up with normal wear and tear of dud fuel fill ups.

I think the dealer has taken the risk of this being knocked back and lost. it's his loss if he hasn't checked with you prior to pick up.

Still I think it's not as black and white as you see it.

Timeshift · 09-05-2005, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbays

Well you know I think the fuel tank filter sock is probably is fair enough to exclude from the warranty as it is a filter like the fuel line filter or oil filter and really only gets blocked up with normal wear and tear of dud fuel fill ups.

I think the dealer has taken the risk of this being knocked back and lost. it's his loss if he hasn't checked with you prior to pick up.

Still I think it's not as black and white as you see it.

Well from what i've read and been told, the fuel sock shouldnt be that bad within 3 years of being brand new. It's $150 TRADE! as opposed to other filters which are a fraction of the price. Regardless though, if he had called on Friday and said what it was and that it's not under warranty and told me the price, I would have paid it and got it over with.

What my beef is, is simply the fact they took it all under warranty and now backtracking. They had a lot of nerve to ask me to return my car and trade for the old one once I told them i spoke to OCA and RAA who agree with me.

What are "dud fuel fill ups"?

b2tf · 09-05-2005, 04:10 PM

Interesting situation but I tend to agree that the fuel sock is considered a filter and is therefore a consumable (and non warranty) item. They do from time to time need replacing and just because one person says it should last x amount of years doesnt mean it will - it all comes down to what kind of fuel has been put in the car over time, how regularly etc etc.

However, if they said it was replaced under warranty then it's only fair you dont pay for it. The dealer has made a fatal mistake in assuming that it will be covered, its their screwup and therefore you shouldnt owe a cent.

Timeshift · 09-05-2005, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by back2thefutura

However, if they said it was replaced under warranty then it's only fair you dont pay for it. The dealer has made a fatal mistake in assuming that it will be covered, its their screwup and therefore you shouldnt owe a cent.

Hmmmm. The dealer is extremely well established and has been around for longer than I can remember... surely this isnt the first time an AU fuel sock has needed to be replaced under warranty?

Sourbastard · 09-05-2005, 05:10 PM

I wouldnt lose sleep over it, but then again I service my car myself now days after a long history of being burnt by mechanics and dealer service departments before.

Are ya gonna pay me the 150 bucks? Suuuure buddy, cheque is in the mail.

jonbays · 09-05-2005, 05:14 PM

Probably not the first time but it would be unusual.

However it wouldn't be the first time someone was asked to go back and welch on a warranty deal. Happens all the time in IT.

I argued about the ethics of it with my boss and I am now looking for a new job.

Can't blame the service manager there for wanting to keep his own job can you!

xr8ute · 09-05-2005, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timeshift

It's $150 TRADE! as opposed to other filters which are a fraction of the price.

I paid $160 for my filter sock....but it came with a brand new 255L/h high pressure fuel pump attached to it so I can't complain ;)

If they did the work without your authority, then that is there own bad luck.

Don't worry, I am sure the part hasn't cost the dealer $150, and it would cost them more (in labour) to take it back out than it is worth.

All the same, I wouldn't be happy about having a service guy stuff something up like that and then try and ping me for it. I would be looking for another dealer for any future work...

b2tf · 09-05-2005, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timeshift

Hmmmm. The dealer is extremely well established and has been around for longer than I can remember... surely this isnt the first time an AU fuel sock has needed to be replaced under warranty?

I think the issue here though is more whether it's under warranty or not. The 'sock' is basically just another filter as I understand it (is this right?), and you'll find that filters are listed as 'consumable items' - I'm unsure of the exact terminology Ford use, but basically its what they call parts which do expire after a period of use and are designed to be replace - filters being the most obvious kind of thing like this.
Ive never heard of any issues with the fuel sock on AU's before and as i said i find it highly unlikely they would be the subject of a recall or have major problems, I think from what you described yours just would have blocked up over time, which can happen to any filter as it gets used. Just because no other car has ever needed a new one this quick doesnt mean there is something wrong with yours, and vice versa.

Timeshift · 09-05-2005, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by back2thefutura

I think the issue here though is more whether it's under warranty or not. The 'sock' is basically just another filter as I understand it (is this right?), and you'll find that filters are listed as 'consumable items' - I'm unsure of the exact terminology Ford use, but basically its what they call parts which do expire after a period of use and are designed to be replace - filters being the most obvious kind of thing like this.
Ive never heard of any issues with the fuel sock on AU's before and as i said i find it highly unlikely they would be the subject of a recall or have major problems, I think from what you described yours just would have blocked up over time, which can happen to any filter as it gets used. Just because no other car has ever needed a new one this quick doesnt mean there is something wrong with yours, and vice versa.

As I said, I would have been fine paying it if it was laid out at the beginning, but not charging and being put under warranty and then backtracking, and then wanting to swap it back for the old one, no, I dont agree with that at all. You?

Dark Horse · 09-05-2005, 09:22 PM

Yeah, interesting one.

Definitely unethical that you should be recalled for what was originally a warranty claim or "supposedly" so. Under the terms of contract, both you and the dealer agreed that the work performed (whether or not this is a warranty issue or not) was to be under warranty.

Should the customer wear the error committed further up the chain? Non est factum. It was not your fault that this dealer came to the initial conclusion that the work performed was to be (incorrectly stated at the time) under warranty. They've got to deal with it.

I've recently had a couple of claims in my last serivice - one was warranty that being a worn park brake ratchet (faulty component), the other (knowingly) was officially not - an adjustment to stop the hand brake dragging (wear and tear). However since both were related to the same item, both were covered under warranty, under good faith with my service manager. I haven't since been recalled to cover the 'labour' costs!

b2tf · 09-05-2005, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timeshift

As I said, I would have been fine paying it if it was laid out at the beginning, but not charging and being put under warranty and then backtracking, and then wanting to swap it back for the old one, no, I dont agree with that at all. You?

I do agree with you on that point. Once its been decided its warranty work they shouldnt have tried to backtrack.

My point was that maybe they got it wrong in assuming it was warranty work in the first place.

Timeshift · 09-05-2005, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by back2thefutura

My point was that maybe they got it wrong in assuming it was warranty work in the first place.

Agreed... it would appear to be the case. The more I think about it, the more unprofessional I think it is that he called up wanting money after it was sorted, and even further, asking to switch my new sock for the old sock because I was not willing to pay $150 for it...

*sigh* so much for all those ford commercials where everyone envies the ford guys

:

TURBOTAXI · 09-05-2005, 10:04 PM

I had a ford dealership charge me $92 for a quote (after I expressly requested thy call me before commencing any work) In fact all I had asked them to do was give me a quote :(
I wont walk back through their door. I will be wary of any other dealerships.
As for the sock at 150 "trade" I wouldnt give it a second thought, it is a karmic response for my $92 quote.
In fact I hope they have done faulty work and have to replace it again. (not that I want to cause you distress) - Just a dealership!

Timeshift · 10-05-2005, 01:12 AM

Hmmm - when I need to get it serviced next time (and I go to a different dealership), should I ask to see my records before they do anything so I can check to see if this incident has been put on to file? I have a month of warranty left but plan to go another 3yr 160k for $895.

Timeshift · 10-05-2005, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TURBOTAXI

I had a ford dealership charge me $92 for a quote (after I expressly requested thy call me before commencing any work) In fact all I had asked them to do was give me a quote :(

That's a problem. Theres a white sign toward the back of the service room (only 10m or so) that says Quotes will be a minimum of $35... which allows them to put any figure they want depending on what effort was made to produce the quote... indeed it is a rip-off.

jonbays · 10-05-2005, 08:53 AM

Just be careful with the extended warranty.

Look and ask carefully giving specific examples of what it does and doesn't cover and be mindful of the cover you get in a "modified" car.

personally I think they are just another insurance rip off.

Timeshift · 10-05-2005, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbays

Just be careful with the extended warranty.

Look and ask carefully giving specific examples of what it does and doesn't cover and be mindful of the cover you get in a "modified" car.

personally I think they are just another insurance rip off.

I'm just worried something big will go wrong with it and if it does and I need to pay a lot of money, i'll be kicking myself. It would be interesting to see some service records for AUIII Fortes.....

xr8ute · 10-05-2005, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbays

personally I think they are just another insurance rip off.

I second that....it's an absolute waste of time :(

loxxr6 · 10-05-2005, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbays
personally I think they are just another insurance rip off.

I second that....it's an absolute waste of time

Likewise. Just another way to score some extra money. How often would people really claim from these things...

**FTE217** · 10-05-2005, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timeshift

I'm just worried something big will go wrong with it and if it does and I need to pay a lot of money, i'll be kicking myself. It would be interesting to see some service records for AUIII Fortes.....

Look matey you do what you want....but you have a S111,pretty much everything is solid tried and tested....only abuse will kill the thing.

xr8ute · 10-05-2005, 05:33 PM

something big went wrong with my ute, looked like I had broken an engine mount...I had a dent from where the engine was lifting up and the inlet manifold hitting the bonnet.

I checked my factory warranty extension booklet and it said "engine mounts" covered so I took it in to the dealer for a fix. As it turned out the engine mount bolts had snapped with half the bolt still in the engine block and needed to be tapped out before new ones where put in.

Long story short, it wasn't covered by my Ford Factory extended warranty because it only covered the "engine mounts" and not the engine mount bolts...

Timeshift · 10-05-2005, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xr8ute

Long story short, it wasn't covered by my Ford Factory extended warranty because it only covered the "engine mounts" and not the engine mount bolts...

What a crock of shit! That's gotta be one of the dodgiest things i've heard in a while.

**FTE217** · 10-05-2005, 06:26 PM

Before you sign take the paperwork away with you for a couple of nights.....bet you won't sign after that

Timeshift · 10-05-2005, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

Before you sign take the paperwork away with you for a couple of nights.....bet you won't sign after that

The extended warranty information book I got actually says there is a 14 or 28 day cooling off period where you have the opportunity to cancel, and even better, you can cancel the warranty at any time and get the equivelent credit back as long as you havent made any claims...

**FTE217** · 11-05-2005, 09:09 AM

yes granted, to put it in a nut shell,they are very good at making things all very rosy for the consumer when it comes to getting your hard earned buck, getting it back is not as easy as it reads !

jonbays · 11-05-2005, 09:31 AM

The ford extended warranty is just a marketing exercise to get more money from people who want to look after their car and aren't mechanicly inclined or aware.

Ask what they don't cover and why ask what happens if you modify or race your car.

Even in the most basic scenario they are a rip off.

Hows this my power windows really slow and binding on driver side the one that does all the work. Warranty right? NO! its just dirt and leaves and stuff causing the binding and thats wear and tear. The dirt would be the same in driver and passenger sides wouldn't it? Er yeh ummm mumble mumble. I have always kept the guides well lubed with silicon spray. Any way I just did it myself it was cheaper and I got a better job done.

Ford keep ringing me to get the warranty extended because it is such a winner for them money for nothing and commision to everyone involved.

Just sign the contract and write "if it breaks you fix it for free no exclusions, no weasel words no exceptions" and ask him to countersign on behalf of Ford.