Workers to vote against pay cut to save Holden - Page 8

stazza · 07-08-2013, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAD

I didn't say they wouldn't help. I merely pointed out the reasoning for choosing to join in response to gtfpv's claim that union people think about everyone but themselves and bring peace, happiness and puppies to the world.
It's just insurance.

I don't care what you think about any non-unionist, whether they deserve their pay, or conditions, or whatever. In the same vein I would think someone brought it on themselves if they didn't buy car insurance and got themselves in financial trouble.
You too can feel the same way about a non-unionist being exploited/sacked/whatever.

But don't try and paint it that being a member makes you a god to workers of Australia.
Maybe being a leader has some credential, but a member is their for their own benefit only.

Yet you paint us all as self serving toothless tigers, whingers etc...? Seriously, What would you know?

and you did say they wouldn't help, just not in those words. You claimed they join a union solely for themselves and no one else when in fact it's the opposite.

gtfpv · 07-08-2013, 04:25 PM

good to see unionists here posting links with facts . non unionists see the world through thier own eyes and cannot see past themselves and thier own circumstances . i know i was a non unionist once and didnt see the point of being in a union . somehow people think that anyone in charge is a saint who brings gifts of good will to people . every word i can think of , of people who think you get exactly what you deserve from the bosses is band on this forum . sometimes i just want to shake some people and say WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU , but evcen that wont work some people are just freeking idiots .
best they can come up with is a jealous whinge and self justification . LOL .

this is what non unionism is all about . its hard to believe it but those boasting how bad unions are support this kind've stuff .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E9jL_sZZbg

gtfpv · 07-08-2013, 05:03 PM

rather than shut this thread . id much rather mods delete this if they feel the need . but you anti unionist need to know the facts before you boast .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMxBZBuMW4s

ratter · 07-08-2013, 06:04 PM

Lock the thread, it's useless

same rubbish going back and forwards now
Unions are good!
Unions are Bad!
Unions saved the world!
Unions are a bunch of bullies!

fact is Australia is becoming a country that is too expensive to produce anything. Non skilled workers want to earn as much as people that spend years schooling themselves and putting in 60+ hours a week.
People want to buy stuff from ebay or overseas and then want to earn top dollar here, yep working out real well isn't it?

Bossxr8 · 07-08-2013, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratter

Lock the thread, it's useless

same rubbish going back and forwards now
Unions are good!
Unions are Bad!
Unions saved the world!
Unions are a bunch of bullies!

fact is Australia is becoming a country that is too expensive to produce anything. Non skilled workers want to earn as much as people that spend years schooling themselves and putting in 60+ hours a week.
People want to buy stuff from ebay or overseas and then want to earn top dollar here, yep working out real well isn't it?

Wages only make a small percentage of a vehicles costs to build. It's the massive rises in electricity, gas, ridiculous government red tape and all the other crap that is making it so expensive to make cars here.

But go ahead and blame it unions, it just easier.

We used to have some of the cheapest electricity prices in the world which gave our industries a big advantage, but now they are one of the most expensive. A big thank you needs to go out to the useless greenies.

xr6turboford · 07-08-2013, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Wages only make a small percentage of a vehicles costs to build. It's the massive rises in electricity, gas, ridiculous government red tape and all the other crap that is making it so expensive to make cars here.

But go ahead and blame it unions, it just easier.

We used to have some of the cheapest electricity prices in the world which gave our industries a big advantage, but now they are one of the most expensive. A big thank you needs to go out to the useless greenies.

Spot on as the wages only make up 17% of the cost so taking a $200 a week pay cut will achieve very little. For those that didn't see National Press Club on the ABC today was a good insight to where today's unions are at.

**PepeLePew** · 07-08-2013, 06:42 PM

I'd suggest a few here stop posting around about HERE.

Go away, settle the nerves, come back later.

Bossxr8 · 07-08-2013, 08:01 PM

Yeah, non unionists would never respond with insults and personal attacks would they. What a silly thing to say.

MAD · 07-08-2013, 08:11 PM

As soon as the "union" is questioned, or its relevance is disagreed on, that is generally what comes back.
I've seen it so many times. There's a reason generalisations become generalisations.

Franco Cozzo · 07-08-2013, 08:47 PM

Also a union is only as strong as its members, more people - better results.

stazza · 07-08-2013, 08:58 PM

It's funny how everyone is bagging the union over the decisions made for the Holden workers. But if any of the critics knew anything, they would know the workers are making the decisions. It's not like the union is holding a gun to the workers' heads. The union would negotiate with Holden and find the best possible outcomes, and the workers decide what their own fate. If anyone thinks the workers had any more choices than the union put on the table then you're kidding yourself. As stated above. The union is the people, the bloke you see on TV is just the guy representing the workers and giving them a voice.

Get a clue.

ratter · 07-08-2013, 08:56 PM

union or no union, if a business has to give pay rises to all it's staff, whether productive or non productive workers, then they have to put their product prices up, the people that purchase these products can no longer afford them as easily and have to ask their boss's for a pay rise and so it goes on and on and on until it affects the original workers again and they have to ask for another pay rise

stazza · 07-08-2013, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratter

union or no union, if a business has to give pay rises to all it's staff, whether productive or non productive workers, then they have to put their product prices up, the people that purchase these products can no longer afford them as easily and have to ask their boss's for a pay rise and so it goes on and on and on until it affects the original workers again and they have to ask for another pay rise

Did you not see the post about the bosses getting massive pay packages?

If the smallest pay rises for the workers had ANY effect then why would they dish out massive pay rises for the big wigs?

ratter · 07-08-2013, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stazza

Did you not see the post about the bosses getting massive pay packages?

If the smallest pay rises for the workers had ANY effect then why would they dish out massive pay rises for the big wigs?

I have 2 eyes and I can read, what about you?

you seem to have this "them and us attitude".
boss's are also, in most situations an employee in case you are not smart enough to realise this.

the way you are posting enforces the general public's attitude that unions are just bully boys, can't you accept that not all agree with you and if the stats posted earlier are true, it makes you a minority

prydey · 07-08-2013, 09:45 PM

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/q...-1226663420346

just one of the reasons why me and unions will never see eye to eye. yes, i am aware that long service leave was brought about by unions. thats ancient history. the problem i have is what this article points out, that as the years go by, the demands become more and more unrealistic.

long service leave is dying because people don't stick it out in one job for long enough to get it. so whats the problem? oh, thats not fair that you have to work all those years at the one place just to get that benefit, so lets make it easier for the employee to get a benefit they don't really deserve.

(and for the record, i got my long service leave after 15 years)

so who pays the long service leave if you have multiple employers across that term??

ludicrous.

like i said, i have no problem with ancient history, so that we have our annual leave and 40 hr week, but the demands these days are in fairy land. (mostly).

what about paid parental leave for fathers? another mind boggler. ok, so this money is coming from the big govt money pit that is overflowing with funds right???

the lists go on.

nstg8a · 07-08-2013, 09:49 PM

Aren't middle management and above wages paid by gm na? So have zero effect on local production costs...

The union arguement could go on for ever, well at least until flappest turns up and locks it down, unionists are never going to see non-unionists side, and vice versa... Not much point in trying to convince each other otherwise.

But back to the topic... If you guys worked at Holden, how would you vote?

Me, I'd vote for no reduction in conditions. IMO holdens gone, and they're just trying to spend as little cash now as possible winding the place up.

MrEL · 07-08-2013, 09:05 PM

Number one rule with any union is "United we bargain , divided we beg".
For all the union bashing that goes on here , the people doing so are either not doing as well as they can for themselves or have flip top heads and no gag reflex.
No one holds a gun to anyones head. Employers are happy to give out things to their employees, that to the people outside the goldfish bowl and don't know the full story seem extravagant.
A happy workforce is a productive workforce.
My employer changed us all to unlimited sick leave through EBA bargaining if people are genuinely sick. Seems somewhat radical doesn't it?
Well after 12 months the sick leave liability in the company actually dropped massively! People started to do sports etc that they didn't do before because they were worried about injuries and only having 10 sick days a year. Well people got healthier and were happier at work and it actually created loyalty.
The employees saw people who got injured or severly ill looked after by the company , and did that little bit more at work to look after those who look after you.
It does go both ways.

MrEL · 07-08-2013, 09:10 PM

The big question but is who actually works to support their lifestyle and who works just to see the numbers in the bank?
Life is getting more and more expensive. If big business and shareholders were prepared to drop prices to make life cheaper for people , would you be happy then to take a pay cut or would you still have to be earning the same numbers each week to feel good in yourself?
Myself if I could support my somewhat modest lifestyle in the same fashion I am now on $300 a week , I wouldn't care if I didn't earn a cent more.
Providing I could live like I am now , who cares what $$ your earning? Its all just fake numbers.
Unfortunately life is getting more expensive each day and the dollars are required.

**buggerlugs** · 07-08-2013, 10:06 PM

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/busine...-1226692359323

Auslandau · 07-08-2013, 10:08 PM

I'll close it down though ...... Union discussions is the same as politics. Strong views from boths sides and we know where discussions of politics gets us.

It really was a discussion about Holden and the workers. It has strayed from that, been allowed some latitude but has turned a bit nasty.

Would love to say my point of view on the state of the union but I know that I would be bashed in the head by those who do not agree with me ...... and thats a shame when others cannot see other points of view but just revert to name calling instead.

Please respect others opinions? You know who you are