Ford Capri 1991 Starting issue

kiwimagic · 24-06-2023, 06:03 PM

Hi All
My 1991 Ford Capri Verde has a issue when starting.
First Start each day starts great no problem.
But after sitting for a few hours it needs to be cranked over for what seems like ages. But probably between 5 sec and 10 sec.
Once started runs perfectly.
I have recently swapped over the fuel pressure regulator from my other Capri the would start first time every time so fuel pressure regulator is good. But still have the second start issue when I fitted it to the Verde..
I all so tried hooking up a relay that is triggered buy the starter which then jumped the test plug which then bypassed the fuel pump relay. But still the same thing.
any ideas why this happens and what is causing this?

GTLEGEND · 25-06-2023, 01:51 AM

Could be dribbling injectors?

Does it blow smoke when it eventually starts?

Put a fuel pressure gauge on it and see if the fuel pressure drops relatively quickly. Pressure should hold for a few hours at least.

XR Martin · 25-06-2023, 07:51 AM

Might be a vapour lock issue.
Worth looking at your carbon canister and vapour lines.

kiwimagic · 25-06-2023, 09:02 AM

I had a fuel pressure gauge in it. It did drop very quickly until I changed the fuel pressure regulator over. Holds pressure for a couple of hours now.

kiwimagic · 25-06-2023, 09:19 AM

First start of the day is great.
Second start it cranks over and doses eventually start, but it only just fires up, then picks up revs and runs great.
No problems until I try to start it again.
I will check the canister and replace the vacuum hoses.

kiwimagic · 25-06-2023, 09:20 AM

Not sure about it blowing smoke. Will check that as well.

kiwimagic · 25-06-2023, 09:22 AM

If there is an injector or injectors leaking it could be flooded and that is why its reluctant to start.

GTLEGEND · 25-06-2023, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwimagic

If there is an injector or injectors leaking it could be flooded and that is why its reluctant to start.

Yeh correct, that is what I was meaning in my poste below..

kiwimagic · 26-06-2023, 01:18 PM

But,
If there are injectors leaking wouldn't that mean the fuel pressure would drop very quickly after engine is shut down.
At the moment it holds pressure (40psi) for at least 2 hours.

GTLEGEND · 26-06-2023, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwimagic

But,
If there are injectors leaking wouldn't that mean the fuel pressure would drop very quickly after engine is shut down.
At the moment it holds pressure (40psi) for at least 2 hours.

If they dribble a little then it may take a little while (several minutes), tell take is usually it should hold normal engine pressure for a couple of hours.

What is the fuel pressure reading you get when the car is running, it should hold that same pressure for a few hours at least with only a relatively small drop?

kiwimagic · 26-06-2023, 01:37 PM

it holds about 40 psi with engine running. Rises a bit when engine is revved up. Then holds 40 psi for over 11/2 hours at least.
I did have a problem with the fuel pressure regulator leaking. (Instant fuel pressure drop) but swapped it out for a good one. I thought that was my problem, but no problem still exists.

GTLEGEND · 26-06-2023, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwimagic

it holds about 40 psi with engine running. Rises a bit when engine is revved up. Then holds 40 psi for over 11/2 hours at least.
I did have a problem with the fuel pressure regulator leaking. (Instant fuel pressure drop) but swapped it out for a good one. I thought that was my problem, but no problem still exists.

Where abouts in the system are you checking pressure, inlet or return side of rail?

Could also be loosing pressure after the reg..

kiwimagic · 26-06-2023, 01:44 PM

Pressure gauge is between the fuel filter and fuel rail. Regulator is on the return side.

GTLEGEND · 26-06-2023, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwimagic

Pressure gauge is between the fuel filter and fuel rail. Regulator is on the return side.

See what the pressure is after the reg..

kiwimagic · 26-06-2023, 07:18 PM

isn,t the fuel line just a unrestricted flow back to the fuel tank after the regulator as its only a drain off pipe for the extra fuel released by the regulator. There is a valve/solenoid thing which is connected to the regulator by a vacuum hose. Which in turn is connected to the inlet manifold via a vacuum hose. This valve/solenoid is also connected to the ECU.
Could this be connected wrongly??

GTLEGEND · 26-06-2023, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwimagic

isn,t the fuel line just a unrestricted flow back to the fuel tank after the regulator as its only a drain off pipe for the extra fuel released by the regulator. There is a valve/solenoid thing which is connected to the regulator by a vacuum hose. Which in turn is connected to the inlet manifold via a vacuum hose. This valve/solenoid is also connected to the ECU.
Could this be connected wrongly??

I would need to double check but I am sure these should still be pressure on the return side. Newer vehicles there is also pressure after the reg.

Sounds like this is becoming a bit of a curly one. Does the fuel pressure drop when you go to start like the fuel pump is draining back upon crank?

kiwimagic · 26-06-2023, 11:40 PM

I will have to check that one. I will test the return to tank pressure first. Need to hook it up. Then test

kiwimagic · 02-08-2023, 06:47 PM

OK
Update on starting problem.
I though my Idle air control might be the problem,
So using a old water heater valve that works of vacuum I connected into the hose from air intake pipe (before the throttle body) and the IAC.
Started it up and it worked as I hoped it would . Engine running creates a vacuum which closed of the air flow to the IAC.
All good. Even disconnected the vacuum hose and valve opened and engine revs increased marginally just like normal, reconnected vacuum hose and revs dropped to idle around 900 rpm. All good so far.
Let it heat up enough to turn on thermo fans then shut it down.
Waited 2 1/2 hours and tried starting it.
Bugger
Same problem no change.
Still needs to be cranked over for at least 10ecs or so.
Turn it off, restart and its is instant start no problem.
More investigation required.
So have eliminated any problem with the IAC causing the slow start issue.

kiwimagic · 02-08-2023, 06:48 PM

Fuel pressure is good no sudden drop in pressure when engine shut down, holds pressure for at least two hours.

GTLEGEND · 02-08-2023, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwimagic

Fuel pressure is good no sudden drop in pressure when engine shut down, holds pressure for at least two hours.

When you say holds pressure, how much pressure is it holding? It usually drops a little from when running then stays stable for a few hours.

I would unbolt injector rail (with injectors intact) and leave out with paper underneath them to see if they leak fuel at all over night.

kiwimagic · 02-08-2023, 11:52 PM

around 40 psi.

GTLEGEND · 03-08-2023, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwimagic

around 40 psi.

What is it when running?

kiwimagic · 03-08-2023, 11:45 AM

40 psi

GTLEGEND · 03-08-2023, 12:15 PM

Mmmmm have you had the injectors tested for flow or spray pattern.

Where abouts in the system did you check fuel pressure, before or after the fuel pressure reg?

kiwimagic · 03-08-2023, 06:50 PM

Between the fuel filter and the fuel rail

GTLEGEND · 03-08-2023, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwimagic

Between the fuel filter and the fuel rail

What is it after the reg?

kiwimagic · 03-08-2023, 07:05 PM

have not checked that part yet.I need to add quick couplers to do that.

kiwimagic · 03-08-2023, 07:53 PM

Could this problem be caused by a faulty PCV valve?

kiwimagic · 13-08-2023, 02:28 PM

Ok I checked the flow of fuel between the Fuel pressure Regulator and the tank. There is no restriction so NO pressure its just a straight drain from regulator to the Tank.
There is a Water Temp sender that sends a signal to the ECU. A fellow Capri owner in the USA has told me that he replaced that and it solved problems similar to mine.
A $5.00 part in the USA, A bit more here in AU.

I will try that next.