VE Launch - LIVE STREAM - Sunday 16th July @ 10.30am

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

isn't the VE Berlina the old VZ Aclaim?
If so how can this be a $4k discount..
Eg:
Would this be like Ford dropping the BA Futura, calling it the new BF Fairmont and saying the BF Fairmont has dropped in price, when in actual fact its the same car with a name change from a previous more prestige model.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------


.
Now play nice boys...
.

It still has all the Berlina option as standard.
The Acclaim was just a tarted up executive with some safety options but nothing on the luxury side.

[ltd]

What about all the poor bastards who bought a VZ, VY, VX etc. All their resale prices will bottom out. Nothing quite like a holden huh. First, we release an update every 6-12 months to ensure your car aint worth much, then we release our car at a cheaper price. What a bunch of *******. The poor shacka who spent 55k on his VZSS now finds out instead of it being worth 45k at 3 months old, is now worth less than 35k. Go Holden.
Typical idiotic mentality that in order to sell more we lower the price. Hopefully their margins hurt like buggery as they have done what mmal has done. Fools.
Let's look at the balance sheet in 12 months and see who made the best decision.
Before the intellectually challenged believe their own opinions of cheaper is better, ask yourself this; why do mercedes and bmw sell a huge volume of cars worldwide. Again, before you try to answer with what would be an overly simplistic view remember I'm talking from a business standpoint here. (BTW I have an MBA and over 15 years experience).

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by ltd

What about all the poor bastards who bought a VZ, VY, VX etc. All their resale prices will bottom out. Nothing quite like a holden huh. First, we release an update every 6-12 months to ensure your car aint worth much, then we release our car at a cheaper price. What a bunch of *******. The poor shacka who spent 55k on his VZSS now finds out instead of it being worth 45k at 3 months old, is now worth less than 35k. Go Holden.
Typical idiotic mentality that in order to sell more we lower the price. Hopefully their margins hurt like buggery as they have done what mmal has done. Fools.
Let's look at the balance sheet in 12 months and see who made the best decision.
Before the intellectually challenged believe their own opinions of cheaper is better, ask yourself this; why do mercedes and bmw sell a huge volume of cars worldwide. Again, before you try to answer with what would be an overly simplistic view remember I'm talking from a business standpoint here. (BTW I have an MBA and over 15 years experience).

Because they sell to the toffs They don't sell fleet.
They don't price there cars to the small people, They price them to the more rich and they make enough of there money back to make more models and more updates.
There not after mum and dad with 3 kids and $55,000 between them per year.
There cars only rely on private sales. So thats more money in the bank with no discounts needed, The only time you see a Merc discounted is when it's a Right-off.
They only need to sell 500 cars here per year to make a massive profit of it. They don't need to worry about fuel prices they have a upper market which people believe if you have won some money and want to look good buy a Mercedes or BMW. They stick cars in market that need them, They don't build cars for fun or mass markets like Holden and Ford they build for a group around it.
Plus you also get people that belove cause it's Mercedes it's the best of everything. Then you also get people like i know that wont buy anything else because they are German and so is the car..

VX 2 series only from 99-2002. VY 2 series only 2002-2004. 2004 VZ 1 series with mid-life upgrades to pass it till VE. I'd be more worried if they did a Mitsubishi 380.
I don't feel for the people who bough VX-VY-VZ that's the car they wanted they buy it?.
I feel for the one's that bough a exclusive GTS worth $100k. And a $60k Clubsport comes along and pretty much get right up it hard.

[ltd]

Slick, Mercedes and BMW don't do too much mainstream fleet, however they still do some fleet.
An awful lot of businesses buy them for the tax incentive of reducing profit and ergo taxable profit at that. The cars are what they are for both marquees market perceptions of quality, technology and style. They also have excellent resale and are not considered in the same group as holden who make "throw away cars". Because Holden have lowered their prices significantly there will be alot of owners burned and as a direct result, Holden sales will suffer from customers not willing to return to the brand. But by far the biggest problem Holden will face is in their product positioning. Already amassed with the task of dishevelling the cheap Korean sourced label, Holden have now drawn attention to their cheaper and perceived lower quality vehicle by the fact they have lowered their prices. Regardless of the source a massive price reduction only serves to lower a companies image from being a semi economically driven, semi quality provider to a cheap and potentially nasty brand. MMAL made the same mistake with the 380 and it did not live up to all the hype. I put it to you sir that not everyone wants to pay 8 thousand less for a caprice when their previous caprice cost 75k. Fundamentally, I see this move will instead of encouraging buyers, dissuade them from the brand as again, the cheap and nasty label will be the scourge of holdens fortunes. This coupled with the lack of control over sourced parts and their quality will mean a typical recall on something silly will have disastrous consequences.

Like I said before, let's wait until we see the balance sheet. I'll bet the executive who devised this "all conquering" strategy is canned by the end of the year.

[ltd]

Also, Ford now have the upper hand able to discount their cars based on lower costs due to having recouped their BA development costs. They will throw so much fruit at the BF2 that Holden will have to survive on minimal margins until their new and over expensive development breaks even.

[Ruger]

agreed ltd holden will be playing catchup for some time to come as far as the financial side of things go.
and the ve has been hyped up and talked about for so long anyone that bought a vz and couldnt foresee the depreciation in it is a moron! no exceptions its common sense.

the ve is no new thing they have been rambling on about how good it will be for so long im sick of the car already. all their rnd money has been put into marketing obviously. and the people they fool are morons again for believing their rubbish and not having a second look to see why they are supposedly so much cheaper

and as for the the luxo models if they kept the same price of course they arent gonna sell any more because the vz luxo models arent selling anyway. especially with the 300c now on the market for so cheap which has been proven superior to the aussie luxo models

[blackahcdx]

Ahh, no, the Berlina isn't the new Acclaim, because it hasn't lost any features.

And the only Feature the Old SS has lost to be cheaper is the Leather. Everything is the same except now it has ESP and the option of the 6 speed auto. The old SV8 only has 17's, single CD, and no sports seats and no climate control.

So i think its a great saving.

Same with the new Berlina, it has everything the old model had, plus more. Remember old model didn't have ESP (like the Acclaim), now has dual zone climate control and other stuff.

Anway i'm shocked by how cheap everything is

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by AUII_SE_Ute

Thnaks for that blackahcdx.

Second that. I thought it was going to take me ages to find the pricing. That sis impressive and goes a long way to explaining why VE hasn't move the genre on like I was expecting. Interest strategy.

[freaky]

Originally Posted by blackahcdx

Ahh, no, the Berlina isn't the new Acclaim, because it hasn't lost any features.

No projector headlights.

No door grab handles.

Cheap cloth seats instead of velour.

Havent even looked at the specs properly yet but picked these items up straight away.

[blackahcdx]

oh i missed those

but they are pretty small really, and things u can cope for the price saving.

And how do u know the cloth is cheap? have u seen it yet?

[freaky]

Originally Posted by blackahcdx

oh i missed those

but they are pretty small really, and things u can cope for the price saving.

And how do u know the cloth is cheap? have u seen it yet?

For me, the lack of door grab handles alone would put me off considering it.

Regarding the cloth. I havent seen it in the flesh, but did realise it was cloth in the hi res pics, as opposed to all the preceding Berlina's ie VZ/VY all had standard velour like the Calais.

The Berlina/Calais where always aligned at the higher luxury end. Now the Berlina is targeted as another option for fleets.

[HSE2]

That SS price reduction< is that based on the SV8 or the previous SS?

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by ltd

Slick, Mercedes and BMW don't do too much mainstream fleet, however they still do some fleet.
An awful lot of businesses buy them for the tax incentive of reducing profit and ergo taxable profit at that. The cars are what they are for both marquees market perceptions of quality, technology and style. They also have excellent resale and are not considered in the same group as holden who make "throw away cars". Because Holden have lowered their prices significantly there will be alot of owners burned and as a direct result, Holden sales will suffer from customers not willing to return to the brand. But by far the biggest problem Holden will face is in their product positioning. Already amassed with the task of dishevelling the cheap Korean sourced label, Holden have now drawn attention to their cheaper and perceived lower quality vehicle by the fact they have lowered their prices. Regardless of the source a massive price reduction only serves to lower a companies image from being a semi economically driven, semi quality provider to a cheap and potentially nasty brand. MMAL made the same mistake with the 380 and it did not live up to all the hype. I put it to you sir that not everyone wants to pay 8 thousand less for a caprice when their previous caprice cost 75k. Fundamentally, I see this move will instead of encouraging buyers, dissuade them from the brand as again, the cheap and nasty label will be the scourge of holdens fortunes. This coupled with the lack of control over sourced parts and their quality will mean a typical recall on something silly will have disastrous consequences.

Like I said before, let's wait until we see the balance sheet. I'll bet the executive who devised this "all conquering" strategy is canned by the end of the year.

It's not to undercut the old models it's to encourage new sales to people that want to buy a car but might go for a smaller car.
It gives say a single person on $37,000 per year a chance to buy a new car and not just the base model. It gives the people the chance to trade-in there old VT-VZ and buy the new model, With these prices i think they are really trying to push you into picking something with more and not paying the price you did last year.
I test drove a VY Series 2 not to long ago @ $17,500. I really want a VZ. But both them choices will be in the base models. I'd rather have Full Air bags power windows all the safety options that you could only get on the more expensive Acclaim. Chances of getting one without my price range Not going to happen. But maybe a ex fleet VE might pop up and be available to me.
If i had the money to buy a new one i would, I wouldn't worry about old model or if i just got a VZ run out because i know i picked up one of the last ones at a great bargain. As you do with run-out models. It's maybe the best time to pick up a car. I remember there was a new Series3 Monaro for sale when the VZ monaro was out, It was being sold for $49,000 with full options.
When a new fresh model comes out you got to expect it to be everything the old one was but with more value. It's bigger then the gap between the VS-VT. It's the first real clean sheet since well it's the first real clean sheet.

It's a difficult time now with petrol and difficult decisions need to be made. If they are serious on selling these cars they got to move them. If they had to cut back some of the profit to sell them so be it try anything to get people back into large cars.
But from what we have seen so far i can't say it looks cheap.
But i believe the only reason the Caprice is cheaper is because of it's overseas market that brings in the biggest profit. Which then with the new model allows it to be cheaper on our end. Would you agree?.

With mercedes and BMW when they make a car per car profit would be 2-4 times more then holden or ford.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by JEM

Ian, driving impressions put aside, what are your thought's on the design?

I know you've been quite keen on this release, i look forward to your opinion.

Provide I reserve the right to adjust accordingly when the car gets into its real world settings, it started badly when the very first picture I saw was one that made the SS-V look like a Camry. It got worse when today I saw the Omega for the first time and thought I was looking at the current Sonata.

I am really only interested in the HSV version but the SS was certainly of interest. The simple answer has to be disappointed. The front of the SS V makes it look narrow and tall from some angles. It doesn’t belong on that car and the rear nearly as bad for a car with such a stunning side profile. There are elements that are overtly fussy for a conservative body. It’s certainly not offensive to look at but at the same time I don’t see the emotion and I don’t see this presence every one speaks of. Large flared guards are a hard design to pull off when the front has such sort over hangs. Said from day one the wheel tyre package will be critical to this car and I see no reason why this has changed.

The commodore has lost some of its identity some of that raw Australian edge and I am not sure it’s served well by the new designs.

The interiors look to be the big improvements and worth the upgrade for existing owners alone. However some pictures of the SS V interior do cast question over quality. I don't like the centre console upright stopping as it does; the Calais design however looks to be outstanding. As you know I support this differential policy between models and was addiment the BA change was a mistake for our premium models. I stand by that assessment today. Holden look to have retained their superior info display format but have picked a much more pleasing method of presentation.

The LWB cars I think are very good especially in some of their shots. Excellent attention to minor detail.

Blink with this release and you miss a days reading, but so far it’s not what I was expecting.

One line
Disappointed. I was expecting more, a shape of the future not a look at the past.


I am expecting bigger things from the HSVs but wish Holden all the best with this new product. For Holden this is a great car and I look forward to reading the driving impressions. I hope they don’t get too much crap about the weight.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by blackahcdx

Actually this Commodore shares nothing with the Opel Omega. Although i agree thats its strange to choose the Omega name.

Regardless of the actual name chosen, having dropped the Exec and Acclaim models I'd guess Holden had to use a new name to span the two previous models. If they used only the Acclaim name to cover the missing Exec for VE some would think it too expensive if after a base model while using the old Exec name would give too much "pov-pack" connotations for old Acclaim buyers.

[Bossxr8]

I'd say Holden will do the same thing as Ford did for the BA, keep the starting price low then jack up the price every 6 months.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by HSE2

Provide I reserve the right to adjust accordingly when the car gets into its real world settings, it started badly when the very first picture I saw was one that made the SS-V look like a Camry. It got worse when today I saw the Omega for the first time and thought I was looking at the current Sonata.

I am really only interested in the HSV version but the SS was certainly of interest. The simple answer has to be disappointed. The front of the SS V makes it look narrow and tall from some angles. It doesn’t belong on that car and the rear nearly as bad for a car with such a stunning side profile. There are elements that are overtly fussy for a conservative body. It’s certainly not offensive to look at but at the same time I don’t see the emotion and I don’t see this presence every one speaks of. Large flared guards are a hard design to pull off when the front has such sort over hangs. Said from day one the wheel tyre package will be critical to this car and I see no reason why this has changed.

The commodore has lost some of its identity some of that raw Australian edge and I am not sure it’s served well by the new designs.

The interiors look to be the big improvements and worth the upgrade for existing owners alone. However some pictures of the SS V interior do cast question over quality. I don't like the centre console upright stopping as it does; the Calais design however looks to be outstanding. As you know I support this differential policy between models and was addiment the BA change was a mistake for our premium models. I stand by that assessment today. Holden look to have retained their superior info display format but have picked a much more pleasing method of presentation.

The LWB cars I think are very good especially in some of their shots. Excellent attention to minor detail.

Blink with this release and you miss a days reading, but so far it’s not what I was expecting.

One line
Disappointed. I was expecting more, a shape of the future not a look at the past.


I am expecting bigger things from the HSVs but wish Holden all the best with this new product. For Holden this is a great car and I look forward to reading the driving impressions. I hope they don’t get too much crap about the weight.

Thanks for a nicely explained opinion. I agree with your description of the SS, from directly front on and slightly below bonnet height, (the first time I saw it) it looks out of proportion, narrow and tall, too much below bumper fussyness.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Thanks for a nicely explained opinion. I agree with your description of the SS, from directly front on and slightly below bonnet height, (the first time I saw it) it looks out of proportion, narrow and tall, too much below bumper fussyness.

If the SS is that plasticky I'd hate to see how much plastic HSV will use. The size of the front bar is huge.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

It's not to undercut the old models it's to encourage new sales to people that want to buy a car but might go for a smaller car.
It gives say a single person on $37,000 per year a chance to buy a new car and not just the base model. It gives the people the chance to trade-in there old VT-VZ and buy the new model, With these prices i think they are really trying to push you into picking something with more and not paying the price you did last year.
I test drove a VY Series 2 not to long ago @ $17,500. I really want a VZ. But both them choices will be in the base models. I'd rather have Full Air bags power windows all the safety options that you could only get on the more expensive Acclaim. Chances of getting one without my price range Not going to happen. But maybe a ex fleet VE might pop up and be available to me.
If i had the money to buy a new one i would, I wouldn't worry about old model or if i just got a VZ run out because i know i picked up one of the last ones at a great bargain. As you do with run-out models. It's maybe the best time to pick up a car. I remember there was a new Series3 Monaro for sale when the VZ monaro was out, It was being sold for $49,000 with full options.
When a new fresh model comes out you got to expect it to be everything the old one was but with more value. It's bigger then the gap between the VS-VT. It's the first real clean sheet since well it's the first real clean sheet.

It's a difficult time now with petrol and difficult decisions need to be made. If they are serious on selling these cars they got to move them. If they had to cut back some of the profit to sell them so be it try anything to get people back into large cars.
But from what we have seen so far i can't say it looks cheap.
But i believe the only reason the Caprice is cheaper is because of it's overseas market that brings in the biggest profit. Which then with the new model allows it to be cheaper on our end. Would you agree?.

With mercedes and BMW when they make a car per car profit would be 2-4 times more then holden or ford.

Slick, you've raised some good points; my point was more from a standpoint of sellers of existing holdens.
For example, at suttons they have a three month old commodore going for 5 grand less than the new car. When the VE comes out this will be redundant and they will have to lower the price otherwise you could get the ve for 1 grand more. As a net result, the price of this vz will drop significantly to have a prayer of being viewed competitively, and as such trade ins, and the private market will suffer greatly.

As for the cars quality, I will not make assumptions as until I have driven the car and been given a chance to evaluate it on its merits/deficiencies I'll reserve judgement. However, an existing product suddenly having a significant price drop when world commodities such as crude and iron ore dictate higher prices suggests to consumers that the car must not be built the same way. Volkswagen is experiencing the same customer backlash from owners of the preceding passat model and the cheaper replacement. May be a short term gain and it may win new customers but the old loyal customers will feel slightly cheated.

Much has been made already about the origins of a lot of the ve's parts. This in my view will only serve to heighten the speculation that much of the car is in fact sourced from Daewoo. Again, quality may be excellent, but market perception is another thing and consumers can take time to warm to a foreign sourced components based car. Much the same as Hyundai struggled initially in the very early 90's with the excel (before the bubble in 95), and the same that daewoo has struggled. I guess the litmus test here will be the market acceptance of the captiva.
BMW and Merc are taxed to within an inch of their lives here. In america, an S500 will set you back around 90-100k. Here in Oz the same car is 270K.

It's all about market perception.
I have a few LTD's (hence my name) and a W220 S500. Whenever I go to crows nest and park one of the fords on the cafe strip people take little notice. Do the same in the benz and alot of people notice. Same person, same income etc and yet different reactions. (It is also fun to wear a Big Boys Toys shirt and a jacket with aero manufacturer logos and a patch indicating my liking to the smell of burnt jet fuel)

Is the benz any better car than the fords? In some ways yes. Is the benz worth 200k more than the fords? No way. But again, it is all about market perceptions, and ergo the different reactions. I can tell you though that in my business, to improve sales and get more long term customers lowering the price only serves to erode margins and has no financial gain whatsoever - just means you work twice as hard for less money, and the customer rates your cheaper product as inferior because it is less than what the market is prepared to pay.

[Teki04]

I think they have improved what was in need of improving (i.e. the transmission, interior, safety and other cool features) and not moved that far forward with design, in order to ensure strong sales. Remember, they are looking for a mass market, not a niche.

I'm going to congratulate Holden - for designing what seems to be a great car. Judging by their ability to have large rims, I'm guessing the suspension is well tuned. The interior looks quite nice, and I love the idea of differentiation between the models. At least you know you paid more, not just for a colour change in the dash plastics. The LWB models also look very nice (well, the Statesmen less so - but it is essentially an entry-model LWB).

I think Holden have done well! Let the games begin - hopefully Ford will have great ideas for the Orion. It goes to show how great Australian Automotive has come! First we had the 380 (Which bar what many say, it actually not too bad. Great handling, engine, efficiency and interior... however the exterior only looks good on the VRX model), now the VE Commodore and Camry - next we have the Orion.

Sorry guys, but I don't really care too much for what the Holden looks like. I doubt I'd purchase one ever. However, it really does highlight the potential the Australians have, both locally and in exporting.

GO THE AUSSIES!


*EDIT* As for the Marketing aspect and change of names - I think the new Model range is much clearer, even if it does seem expensive in a way. Once again, a good idea by Holden. Clever Marketing... especially if sales increase! :

[BA GT-HO]

The pricing is very interesting and clever marketing!

So in reality what we have now is

VZ SS = VE SS Z
VZ SV8 = VE SS

Bloody smart thinking! I am sure a lot of people will get sucked into it too!

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by ltd

Slick, you've raised some good points; my point was more from a standpoint of sellers of existing holdens.
For example, at suttons they have a three month old commodore going for 5 grand less than the new car. When the VE comes out this will be redundant and they will have to lower the price otherwise you could get the ve for 1 grand more. As a net result, the price of this vz will drop significantly to have a prayer of being viewed competitively, and as such trade ins, and the private market will suffer greatly.

As for the cars quality, I will not make assumptions as until I have driven the car and been given a chance to evaluate it on its merits/deficiencies I'll reserve judgement. However, an existing product suddenly having a significant price drop when world commodities such as crude and iron ore dictate higher prices suggests to consumers that the car must not be built the same way. Volkswagen is experiencing the same customer backlash from owners of the preceding passat model and the cheaper replacement. May be a short term gain and it may win new customers but the old loyal customers will feel slightly cheated.

Much has been made already about the origins of a lot of the ve's parts. This in my view will only serve to heighten the speculation that much of the car is in fact sourced from Daewoo. Again, quality may be excellent, but market perception is another thing and consumers can take time to warm to a foreign sourced components based car. Much the same as Hyundai struggled initially in the very early 90's with the excel (before the bubble in 95), and the same that daewoo has struggled. I guess the litmus test here will be the market acceptance of the captiva.
BMW and Merc are taxed to within an inch of their lives here. In america, an S500 will set you back around 90-100k. Here in Oz the same car is 270K.

It's all about market perception.
I have a few LTD's (hence my name) and a W220 S500. Whenever I go to crows nest and park one of the fords on the cafe strip people take little notice. Do the same in the benz and alot of people notice. Same person, same income etc and yet different reactions. (It is also fun to wear a Big Boys Toys shirt and a jacket with aero manufacturer logos and a patch indicating my liking to the smell of burnt jet fuel)

Is the benz any better car than the fords? In some ways yes. Is the benz worth 200k more than the fords? No way. But again, it is all about market perceptions, and ergo the different reactions. I can tell you though that in my business, to improve sales and get more long term customers lowering the price only serves to erode margins and has no financial gain whatsoever - just means you work twice as hard for less money, and the customer rates your cheaper product as inferior because it is less than what the market is prepared to pay.

Tell me if I'm wrong, Your saying that a lower priced new model with the lot, Against a new previous model with as much as it had then but well under spec'd compared to the new model will suffer, Which will mean lower profits on the out going cars. Which then in turn hits the owners pocket when they go to trade that 04-05 VZ in and only get offered $10,000-$13,000 on the base model, Because the way the market is set up is for it to drop it's price as it's driven out the door?.
So that hurts Holden's share of profit, Then the sellers profit, And then the buyers sale or trade-in.

Well i brought this up once in another forum that a Falcon Commodore based on value for money was a far safer more quality car then any Mercedes based on per $ and budget development. I got a bad reception on it.

I have recently seen the passat and jetta models and thought they look great, Seen them on-line and didn't like them. More impressive in the flesh.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Just notice Holden has released its pricing for the VE.

Interesting to note where it has positioned its models now.

Where does this leave Ford with models like XR8 and Fairmont Ghia? Id say the BF II will see alot of changes to the spec lists on all models as Ford really will have to beef up the range to compete.

[kinksta]

yea the drop in the prices will ***** people ears. but who buys a brand new car these days without air conditioning? caprice now under $70000! thats good for the LWB, and if fairlane/LTD cease, well these LWB holdens are going to sell heaps!

[4Vman]

Maybe we could merge all these VE threads? this topic is discussed at length in a number of threads now....

[XplodE]

I think you will find no price's have really actually droped.

The VE SS will take the place of VZ SV8.

The VE SS V is what the VZ SS would have been in the passed.

As for the rest id gather they have just been un spec'ed to make way for the V series...

I could always be wrong, but i just cant see prices drop by that much...

[Smoke Pursuit]

Yes, but a standard SS will be the same as a XR8 now, and look how much more the XR8 is, its the same price as the SS V but with no leather, premium sound, climate control, side airbags, 19 inch alloys etc.

[Fairlane]

Still no standard A/C- You gotta love Holden and there "low" RRP prices.

Australia the dryest continent on earth and one of the hottest and still no standard A/C on its most popular car. I think even the Kia Rio has A/C standard now.

[Eaturbo]

fords in trouble if it dont drop its prices, and that spells bad news for resales. VZ resale is about to take the big one

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by XplodE

I think you will find no price's have really actually droped.

The VE SS will take the place of VZ SV8.

The VE SS V is what the VZ SS would have been in the passed.

As for the rest id gather they have just been un spec'ed to make way for the V series...

I could always be wrong, but i just cant see prices drop by that much...

Also isnt the new Calais where the old Berlina used to be?

Nothings realy changed at all to me. The SS V is better specced than the XR8 but Ford may address that with BF2.