VE Launch - LIVE STREAM - Sunday 16th July @ 10.30am

[BadMac]

Originally Posted by Fairlane

Still no standard A/C- You gotta love Holden and there "low" RRP prices.

Australia the dryest continent on earth and one of the hottest and still no standard A/C on its most popular car. I think even the Kia Rio has A/C standard now.

Only the Omega has optional A/C. And immediately theres a special model called Commodore V, which seems to be Omega with Air and something else.

And just to compare prices, these are from the Ford web site today.
XT Falcon 6 cyl 4speed auto = $35,880 (A/C is std)
Add rear power windows $470 = $36,350

Omega with air = $36,490
So not much difference in price, but VE also has additional features (ie ESP).

[ltd]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

Tell me if I'm wrong, Your saying that a lower priced new model with the lot, Against a new previous model with as much as it had then but well under spec'd compared to the new model will suffer, Which will mean lower profits on the out going cars. Which then in turn hits the owners pocket when they go to trade that 04-05 VZ in and only get offered $10,000-$13,000 on the base model, Because the way the market is set up is for it to drop it's price as it's driven out the door?.
So that hurts Holden's share of profit, Then the sellers profit, And then the buyers sale or trade-in.

Well i brought this up once in another forum that a Falcon Commodore based on value for money was a far safer more quality car then any Mercedes based on per $ and budget development. I got a bad reception on it.

I have recently seen the passat and jetta models and thought they look great, Seen them on-line and didn't like them. More impressive in the flesh.

You're getting it. Ask any salesman the best way to sell more and they will tell you to cut prices. This is very shortsighted. People are prepared to pay for quality and as such have a sort of expectation of what it should cost. When something doesn't cost that much people want to know why it is less than the competition, and especially in markets like electronics lower cost is typically frowned upon. Look at Goldstar. It was cheap as chips, and the quality was crap. 10 years later they rebrand as LG (short for Lucky Goldstar) and look at what people are prepared to pay now. It is commonly referred to as the industry leader. Still the same factory, still the same management and they win more marketshare by being expensive and ergo win a perception of value and quality.

Thing is, undercutting the competition is an aggressive approach to your market, however undercutting with a new product is literally a hair away from sheer brilliance to suicide. Holden will be trying to recoup their investment as quickly as possible, however with lower margins it will take longer. As the Omega is roughly around the same price as the executive, there should be minimal impact. However, on the upper end models; the models typically bought by private and small business buyers, cheaper does not mean better and the direct result can be a question over the vehicles perceived quality.

Of course their margins are probably the same as on the last car, however because of the foreign sourced parts their overall vehicle cost may be less. But for evidence of foreign sourced for the big australian look at the backlash against the barina. The media have not been friendly to that car or whichever is the rebadged Kalos and as such sales have taken a hit. I'm not suggesting the commodore will founder as a result however if the media don't love it then it could hurt Holden.
Finally, I don't wish to see ill will to any of our car manufacturers as they spur each other on to greatness with their competitiveness.

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by ltd

You're getting it. Ask any salesman the best way to sell more and they will tell you to cut prices. This is very shortsighted. People are prepared to pay for quality and as such have a sort of expectation of what it should cost. When something doesn't cost that much people want to know why it is less than the competition, and especially in markets like electronics lower cost is typically frowned upon. Look at Goldstar. It was cheap as chips, and the quality was crap. 10 years later they rebrand as LG (short for Lucky Goldstar) and look at what people are prepared to pay now. It is commonly referred to as the industry leader. Still the same factory, still the same management and they win more marketshare by being expensive and ergo win a perception of value and quality.

Thing is, undercutting the competition is an aggressive approach to your market, however undercutting with a new product is literally a hair away from sheer brilliance to suicide. Holden will be trying to recoup their investment as quickly as possible, however with lower margins it will take longer. As the Omega is roughly around the same price as the executive, there should be minimal impact. However, on the upper end models; the models typically bought by private and small business buyers, cheaper does not mean better and the direct result can be a question over the vehicles perceived quality.

Of course their margins are probably the same as on the last car, however because of the foreign sourced parts their overall vehicle cost may be less. But for evidence of foreign sourced for the big australian look at the backlash against the barina. The media have not been friendly to that car or whichever is the rebadged Kalos and as such sales have taken a hit. I'm not suggesting the commodore will founder as a result however if the media don't love it then it could hurt Holden.
Finally, I don't wish to see ill will to any of our car manufacturers as they spur each other on to greatness with their competitiveness.

Bit like the Phone i was thinking of buying not long ago. Second hand price is about $140. New is $200+, This one comes along @ $100 brand new, I was very sceptical of it i didn't trust it because the Price was so cheap.

Actually the only people to win with lower prices are the second hand buyers. I was prepared to by a 2003 VY Commodore in February for $14,000, Only 3 month later they had a lower km 04 VZ Commodore for $15,990. Now when a VE comes around at the same age it should be as cheap as a 04 VZ Commodore in 2008-2009. Second hand buyers will win but trade ins drop.
I see what your saying you might be able to sell say 50,000 cars @ $34,000 With say half being a profit $765000000, But you might be able to sell and prepare for only 45,000 cars @ $36,000 with more then half being a profit $810000000. You might sell less but your profit is intact and you did less to make that money And you wont hurt resale and no need to cut prices. And you don't step on the model before toes so early.

[blackahcdx]

Originally Posted by Fairlane

Still no standard A/C- You gotta love Holden and there "low" RRP prices.

Australia the dryest continent on earth and one of the hottest and still no standard A/C on its most popular car. I think even the Kia Rio has A/C standard now.

actually the driest continent is Antartica :p

[4Vman]

Dramatic price discounting is dangerous for a number of reasons, it signals your cost breat point, or if you like "dealer profit margin", it also can have the effect of signalling a lack of confidence in your product to compete head to head with the competition on its merits....
Changing pricing by defusing or confusing the market at a model change is a smarter way of doing it and add the fact that there's been some clever spec and model shuffling to further confuse the issue helps but i think to sell a product purely on price is a dangerous thing to do and lacks sustainability.
I also think there will be a backlash from the second hand market as the percetion they've tried to create that the SS is now allot cheaper will backfire with the trade-in/resale prices of 1-4 year old cars...
That said i don't believe the discounting is as drastic as it appears on paper for the simple reason that again, there's been some clever shuffling of model names and specifications.

[BadMac]

Theres more to pricing than just making it cheap.

Say Holden would normally sell 30,000 of the Exec/Omega class car @ price 1, then by reducing the cost (and possible with VE also keeping the old margins by selective sourcing), to price 2 they may be able to sell 50,000 units.

That has many effects
1/ they make their margin over a larger volume
2/ they keep their workforce employed, possible even increase there workforce.
3/ they meet their supply targets to take a higher volume for a lower price, hence reducing units costs and either allowing the lower price or increasing the margins
4/ they have more cars on the road hence self marketing reduces overall marketing costs (double edged sword as not everyone wants a "common" car)
5/ they take 20,000 sales from their competitors, hence reducing their ability to sell.
6/ They depress resale values, but only until the discounted model flushes through as its resale reflects its discounted buy price. ie it only effects a subset of buyers, most of whom still find the 50% loss on a Ford/Holden better than a 50% loss on a equal spec euro car at 2x the initial price.

[ltd]

true 4v, sort of like say ford selling the fairlane for 25 grand; and the extras are say engine, 6 grand, transmission 7 grand, ac 2 grand etc. Total cost = 56k

Boeing sell the 747 for 202 million USD, yet it does not come with engines. You actually have to organise and buy the engines seperately.

[ltd]

badmac look at MMAL, they tried the same thing too. Are they a roaring success?

[BadMac]

Originally Posted by ltd

badmac look at MMAL, they tried the same thing too. Are they a roaring success?

Yeah but they started from a weak position and lower prices were seen as just desperation. Holden and Ford both enjoy the position of being perceived to be Australian, have solid products, and will be there for the life of their warrenty. Therefore if they do a low cost volume model it is seen in a different light.

This is the same problem Toyota has, but given there reputation for quality they may pull it off. The first place they will cannabolise sales from will be swing voters. MMAL needs these people and Toyota/Holden will mop them up.

I would say Ford should just cruise along with about the same sale. You certainly won't see an upswing.

By the way heres a prediction for this months Vfacts. I bet Falcon beats Commodore.

[Teki04]

Can I just say, for a New Zealander BadMac knows his stuff! _2:

I haven't been online all day, but agree with everything he has said.

I think the 'lower' pricing is to increase initial sales, and get the word-of-mouth and marketing out there, hence creating increased interested in the VE Commodore. Once people have seen what a great value it might be, then they may either;

1. Sell more products... hence not having to move the prices
2. Realise that no one else has an as good product, and hence increase prices slightly.

Mitsubishi screwed up. They started far too high (considering they had to get people back to their brand after the Magna flop), and then had to re-shuffle their packaging to bring out the same car, at a cheaper price. Quite obvious then that they were not meeting predicted sales. Oh well, they had a great product, and screwed with the pricing. People were just not prepared to pay such high dollar for a Mitsubishi, which was never known as being a market leader and having high resales. A pity though, as they don't seem too bad... at the right price

[ltd]

badmac I agree with what you are saying, however I think the ve can potentially suffer from the following.

Lower sales due to disenfranchised vz, vy customers whose resale has suddenly dropped an extra 5k
Lower sales due to market perception that cheaper is not always better
Calling attention to Korean sourced parts from a lower price leaving people to question how it can be lower priced
Undercutting a competitor who can beat it on fuel economy - and has their next update based on fuel economy; and has room to discount at the end of a model life.

If the VE was built the same way the VZ was and was kept the same sort of pricing I dare say Ford would be in real trouble. I know that most people think that a lower price means you sell more but I believe this is a misconception. As stated in an earlier post people are prepared to pay for quality. The die hard Holden fans and the general public may question that quality when a brand new car is able to be sold for a few grand less at the beginning of the model life. This either means the car is cheaper to produce and ergo makes the perceived quality questionable, or it is indeed being discounted at launch (which can only have a short term gain). Add to this the people who would trade in their VY, VZ for a VE and find the value has dropped significantly. We'll wait and see.

[ltd]

The car has a mixed reception. Check this out.
http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...eID=18555&vf=3

[Full Spectrum]

I didn't even bother to right in on that, I seen a lot of fan boys on both sides kill it, Same happen when the BA-VY first came out it's not worth the hassle to make a post in it.

[ltd]

Hey slick, I'm not putting the Holden down, I think any manufacturer either Ford or Holden are going to have a hard job convincing the motoring public that large cars are anything but gas guzzlers. This is especially true when other manufacturers advertise fuel efficient cars.

[Full Spectrum]

I just remember one of the comments on engine size It's a huge gas guzzlers, I think it might have been a 4 banger lover.
True it's hard and i think at times they really forget how far our Family size cars have come in fuel Economy, Take the Falcon and Commodore of today, Probably match a 4 cyl of the early 90's in fuel economy now. They even get V8's to run what the 20 year plus 6's ran in economy thats pretty good.
My sister owns a Proton Gen2 and she can get anywhere on average from 7.2-10.5l/100, And it's the summer time where it kills it's economy, Then not long ago when my brother was staying here he was going to work which was a short freeway trip and to he's mates after work and back home, He was getting it to run at 10.9l/100, Thats a BA Fairmont I6 Auto and thats pretty good economy.
My car runs with over 300,000km 14.5l/100 on average, the old Buick V6 wasn't the best with economy in the line of V6's before Ecotec. I'm very happy with my last 3 full tanks always getting over 450km, (Only took me 12 months to fix the fuel problem).
But your right it's the publics perception now wheres before it was V8's are guzzlers now it's large cars with 6's and 8's. even though people seem to buy V8's like normal?.
It's really a shame they can't see past the large and the big.

[Teki04]

ltd, have you read every post? The car isn't too much cheaper. Remember, if you reduce the size of your model range, you may increase efficiency. Just because Holden is more efficient now (I remember reading something about the steel being cheaper now, and easier to produce. Also, they now produce cars they will sell, so they don't over-supply hence bring too many discount models to clear stock). If they are more efficient, and have better stock control, they can bring out the car at a cheaper price.

As some have mentioned, there has been a re-shuffle, so the prices aren't exactly cheaper. I really doubt people will think quality has changed just because they are able to bring out a car for $1,000 less then the previous model.

Sure, if they all of a sudden had the base Omega at $30,990 drive away, I'd think something was up. A few hundred dollars difference (to comparable VZ models) isn't going to make a big difference.

Also, who said heaps of the car was coming from Korea? I read an article saying 2/3s of the vehicle was Australian. A reason why they didn't reach the previous industry standard of 80% (Australian), was because major components like Transmissions and Engines were from overseas, and account for a high percentage of the final price of the car.

About the previous Commodore owners being annoyed at reduced prices - get over it... this has happened for years now, with both the Falcon and Commodore. They release new models/updates more often then most other cars.

[ltd]

Teki, check drive.com.au and carsguide.com.au for the amount of outsourced parts.
Furthermore, if someone told you steel was cheaper then they have their head up their proverbial. That would be akin to saying oil is cheaper.
Mild Steel has gone up over 230% in the last 5 years alone, Stainless Steel is starting to steadily move up now. Alot of the interior you see comes from Korea, and alot of the electronics too. This is not to impugn holden at all, as most electronics are being made under licence in Korea for companies like bosch etc.
There is an 8000 dollar difference on caprices, and the high end cars are significantly cheaper (over 10%).
BTW, I have read every post and have responded to a number of them.

[blackahcdx]

this thing about outsources parts is crap. There was a lot of beat up about Holden dumping some aussie parts suppliers. But what the media failed to mention that a lot of these contracts went to other aussie part suppliers.


Now after seeing the car at the dealer roadshow on friday night i have to say it is just amazing what Holden have done to the car. The stance, the proportions, and surfacing is just totaly unlike any other commodore. The panel gaps are all even, everything lines up, the interior quality is top notch.

The head Holden guy that did the presentation asked me what i thought of the new cars and i told him "it makes the VZ look like a pile of dinosaur ****"

He laughed :p

I'll let u guys know how the cars drive after i go to the drive day at eastern creek tomorrow.

Also will get to drive the new Captiva AWD wagon, the staesman/caprice and the new Camry sized Epica

[ltd]

Hey, who can blame Holden for getting stuff from overseas. The latest strike by the rubber supplier in Bendigo is costing our industry millions.

[The Stylist]

I don't know if you guy's have come across a recent article asking what Tom Gorman thought of the VE? he said (along the lines) that the Commodore was playing catch up to where the BA was in 2002.

From a styling perspective I think he is right and that Holden have caught up and surpassed 2002 BA, though they have gone much further - all the way into 2003!

Just a bit too conservative for 2006 I'm affraid.

[Fordoldie]

Originally Posted by The Stylist

I don't know if you guy's have come across a recent article asking what Tom Gorman thought of the VE? he said (along the lines) that the Commodore was playing catch up to where the BA was in 2002.
From a styling perspective I think he is right and that Holden have caught up and surpassed 2002 BA, though they have gone much further - all the way into 2003!
Just a bit too conservative for 2006 I'm affraid.

That's a pretty backward comment to make. The VE dates the current Falcon platform dramatically. It has to. Anyone who thinks otherwise is blind.

The comments about overseas sourced parts are somewhat puzzling. Ford use Taiwanese diffs in the BF series XR's - to mention only one part....
Overseas parts will always be used more & more and the Orion will be in it's own league in that department.

[ltd]

Taken from SMH

Holden’s Australian icon, the Commodore, will have more foreign parts to keep prices down and European styling flair to broaden its appeal. But will that be enough to entice buyers away from imported cars, asks JOSHUA DOWLING.

Australia's favourite car - the Holden Commodore - faces its toughest challenge ever when the all-new model goes on sale in August.

The Commodore may have been the biggest-selling car for the past decade but its sales are at a 12-year low. The rising cost of petrol has recently been getting the blame - and the headlines - but it is merely one factor.

Over the past 10 years Australians have been falling out of love with the big Aussie sedan and developed more exotic tastes. Imported vehicles have become more affordable thanks to a dramatic reduction in import tariffs and, more recently, a stronger Aussie dollar.

Ten years ago, imported vehicles accounted for half of all new vehicles sold. Today, they make up more than 70 per cent of new-car sales. A decade ago, imported passenger cars attracted a 25 per cent tariff.

Today it is just 10 per cent - and the Federal Government is looking to drop the import tariff on passenger cars to 5 per cent in 2010, in line with the tariff on recreational vehicles.

With this in mind, the next-generation Commodore will have to be a lean machine cheaper to build and free of any excess cost if it is to survive among the hordes of imports.

It also explains why the next Commodore will be the most multicultural model Holden has ever produced, with more foreign parts than before. Will buyers be able to notice where Holden has cut costs - and corners?

With previous Commodores, Holden boasted about the local content of its cars. Now it refuses to divulge details. Taillights from Korea, fuel injectors from China, wheels made in Thailand, body-moulding tools made in Japan. And that's just a taste.

"We don't discuss that level of detail," is the stern response from Holden's spokesman Jason Laird. "We don't discuss local content."

When pressed, Laird says: "The new car needs to be competitive with every global brand for it to be successful in Australia. What's important is [the Commodore] continues to be Australia's best-selling car and continues to be a major part of the Australian car industry.

"We have the jobs of our Holden staff to consider and the jobs of the supplier industry to consider. Suppliers need to be globally competitive just as we need to be. That means new technology, new innovation and new ways to do business."

But Holden has switched from some local suppliers in favour of foreign suppliers who are cheaper. Holden does not apologise for this.

"This car has to be able to handle the best that Europe and Japan can throw at it. Australia is one of the most competitive car markets in the world," Laird says.

While some local suppliers have been dropped, Holden says it's worth noting that some new suppliers have set up in Australia and created jobs, although Laird is not specific.

"The [next Commodore] has to be competitive. If it's not competitive then that puts the whole system at risk."

Could this be the last Australian-made Commodore? Laird is almost furious at the suggestion.

"We have no plan other than to have Australia's best-selling car," he says. "For the past three years we've invested $1.8 billion on local operations. Find another company that's done that. Find another project worth that. We've spent the equivalent of four Olympic stadiums in the space of three years. We're not going to sit here and justify our existence when the numbers clearly show we mean business. We've made an enormous investment in the future of the company."

Holden believes buyers are looking for an excuse to come back to the Commodore. We'll know soon enough.

As engineers put the finishing touches on the most important Commodore ever made, fleet managers were shown the vehicle at a special preview in Sydney this week.

Based on information we've gathered from fleet managers who've seen the car and other industry contacts, we've learned that the VE (the new Commodore's model code) is the most radically different Commodore in the 26-year history of the nameplate.

Holden has designed, engineered and developed the car from scratch. Every model Commodore - from the VB launched in 1978 to the VT of 1997 - started life as a European Opel sedan that was heavily reworked to become an Australian Commodore.

Since General Motors' European division Opel killed off its large rear-drive sedan (it was originally called the Commodore, then the Senator and then the Omega) three years ago, Holden has been faced with the proposition of developing the car itself.

The Australian outpost of GM is not completely alone, of course, with significant assistance coming from GM engineers around the world and, in particular, the United States (some Holden insiders say there is a little too much input from GM representatives from the US).

The US involvement in the VE largely stems from the fact that the next generation of Commodore derivatives are expected to be assembled in North America, as well as Elizabeth in South Australia.

The Statesman could be built and sold in the US as a Buick, which is why the VE has had some significant changes under the skin. For example, to accommodate US requirements the fuel tank has been moved from under the boot to under the rear seat, among other modifications that enable the VE to meet international regulations.

As part of the grand plan of GM's global product chief, Bob Lutz (he's the bloke who did the deal to sell the Monaro to the Yanks as a Pontiac GTO) Holden is now the centre of excellence for GM's global low-cost rear-drive vehicles. In other words, other than Cadillac and Corvette, Holden is the rear-drive expert for the rest of the GM world.

The next Commodore will have roughly the same size interior as the current model but its exterior dimensions are said to have grown by about 15cm to accommodate new safety equipment (such as "curtain" airbags) and more stringent side impact regulations.

As these computer-generated images show, the bulging wheel arches and starchly creased waistline give the VE an upmarket Audi feel. The front wheels have been pushed forward for better road-holding.

To help fill the massive wheel arches the fleet-pack Executive's standard wheel size has grown from 15-inches to 16-inches and the SS is expected to get 19-inch wheels as standard.

Expect to see the base car powered by just one version of the 3.6-litre V6 - the high output version - with power said to be up from 190kW (as used in the SV6 and Calais) to 200kW.

For the 6.0-litre V8, Holden is said to have found another 5kW (bringing it up to 265kW), although it's worth pointing out that the new number is what the engine was quoted in all US documentation as having in the first place. Perhaps Holden deliberately under-called the power of the 6.0-litre fitted to the VZ so that it appeared there was a power gain with the all-new model.

It is not yet clear whether the 6.0-litre's fuel-saving technology - displacement on demand - will be available from day one on V8-powered VE models. Holden, as with most makers, doesn't play all its cards at once at new-model time, so displacement on demand (which shuts down up to four cylinders under light loads or when cruising downhill) may be held up Holden's sleeve until Series II time, about a year after launch.

Unfortunately, such fuel-saving technology can't come soon enough for Holden as the VE is said to have piled on the kilos - up by 130kg-140kg more than the VZ - which, if true, would put it on par and perhaps even heavier than its arch rival, the Ford Falcon.

Weight is such an issue for the VE that, in addition to a standard five-speed automatic gearbox on V6 models, the V8s are expected to get a six-speed auto as standard - both with taller ratios to help open-road fuel economy. The Holden V8's six-speed auto is said to be GM-made while the sporty HSV is said to be getting the world-class, German-made ZF six-speed auto (the same one used in the latest performance Falcons).

Brakes have also come under scrutiny. To help cope with the VE's extra weight, V8 model Commodores will get 330mm front discs, which are bigger than the premium front discs recently fitted to the VZ 6.0-litre range.

The V6 models are expected to get the brakes that Holden has just fitted to the SS and other 6.0-litre VZ models, while the larger vented rear discs on those models will become standard fare on the rear of the entire VE range.

HSV is said to be fitting six-piston AP Racing calipers as standard across its VE range but with larger diameter discs than currently on the VZ. Both Holden and HSV have opted for the biggest brakes possible because it is difficult to tamper with the brakes (such as fitting larger calipers or discs) when the car is equipped with an electronic stability program (ESP).

Most VE models are expected to have ESP as standard, given that the technology has been largely attributed to reducing the number of crashes and saving lives since it became widely available on new cars sold in Europe. An ESP system detects if the car is going too fast in a corner or in slippery conditions and cuts engine power and applies the brakes accordingly.

ESP came into the spotlight recently when Holden's head of safety, Laurie Sparke, was caught off-guard when asked by the ABC's 7.30 Report why ESP wasn't an option on the base model Commodore. He didn't have an answer.

It may be too late for ESP to be added to the base model VE with just four months to go before launch but if it is available on a VE Executive, we can probably thank those few moments of publicly funded television.

Other than safety items such as ESP and curtain airbags, equipment levels are expected to remain the same as the VZ for each model (apparently buyers will initially be lured by the all-new body shape).

In a last-minute cost-cutting attempt consideration was given to taking some equipment out of the cars. But the former head of sales and marketing, Ross McKenzie, apparently put a stop to that and said at a board meeting: "I don't care how you save the money but you're not taking a single feature out of the car."

Which is why there will be more foreign parts in the Commodore than ever before.

"There's no point building the world's best car if no-one buys it," says one Holden insider. "How many people would pay $40,000 for an Executive? Exactly."

That said, prices across the VE range are expected to increase by between 1 and 3 per cent. Holden creeps up the price with every model change, so a full model change will most certainly lead to a price rise. Holden needs to recoup its significant investment cost, said to be close to $1 billion - the biggest investment on a Commodore.

The VE was, at one point, supposed to be on sale in February-March this year. The former boss of Holden, Peter Hanenberger, brought the VE program forward six months because he was worried about the impact the heavily revised Falcon would have on VZ sales. (It would have proven to be a prudent move, as the VZ is struggling, with sales nearly 20 per cent below what they were a year ago.)

But Holden engineers struggled to meet this deadline, especially now that every major decision must be approved by the high-ups at GM in the US. So, the new American boss of Holden, Denny Mooney, pushed the VE back to its original release date of August-September 2006.

Holden engineers have used every extra minute they've been given, with the VE undergoing several changes in the last 12 months of its gestation. In addition to one last attempt at weight-saving, Holden has worked on improving quality in every department, from interior plastics to exterior panel fit.

The VE is said to have world-class panel gaps, after Denny Mooney took a trip to Japan to visit the company that makes most of the tooling used to assemble the VE.

Holden knows that the VE must be a car that will delight the senses, which is why there will be a strong emphasis on design, quality and European feel.

The only problem is: the bigger, heavier and (likely) thirstier Commodore will arrive in a market that has turned its back on big Aussie sedans, the meat-and-three-veg of the automotive world. Given that our palates have changed, the new Commodore will need something more than special sauce.

Visit drive.com.au for more images of the new VE Commodores

[WILDTRAKPX2]

Originally Posted by Fordoldie

That's a pretty backward comment to make. The VE dates the current Falcon platform dramatically. It has to. Anyone who thinks otherwise is blind.

Now I have learnt I am blind, should I be envious of your one eye?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Fordoldie

The VE dates the current Falcon platform dramatically. It has to. Anyone who thinks otherwise is blind.
.

Garbage.

[blackahcdx]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Garbage.

well after just driving the car i have to say he is correct

[WASP]

Originally Posted by blackahcdx

well after just driving the car i have to say he is correct

Did you just have drive of a VE? Not sure how you managed that but please tell us about it...

[blackahcdx]

Its called a staff drive day

was at Eastern Creek.

I must say i came away very impressed. I will happily admit that VZ Commodore is a bucket of dinosaur *****, but forget evrything you know about Commodore because the VE re-writes the rule book.

It is very nimble, changes direction unbelievably quickly, steering is light but has a nice weight and very direct.

V6 is no longer a wheezing breathless slow horrid thing. They re-designed the timing belt chain (i think, i fell asleep in theory) to change the noise and also have a new inlet mainifold which allows a flatter tourqe curve with more power lower down. The 4 speed auto also has new electronics and i was genuinley amazed by how good this transmission now it, very very suprised.

The statesman no longer feels like driving a land boat. LOL. It felt like a much much smaller car, and very nimble, was amazing how i could fling it around and it would just follow what i wanted it to do, completley like the other one, which i never felt confident in throwing around. Very impressed, was thinking it wouldn't handel that well since it is a grandpa's car.

LOL

Anyway i think when the motoring press get their hands on it they will be equaly impressed

[4Vman]

What a surprise! a Holden Staff member singing the praises of a new model...!
All jokes aside im sure its a good thing.
Im looking forward to a true comparrision and "un biased" opinion though....

[blackahcdx]

just cause i sell them doesn't mean i can't be objective :p

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by blackahcdx

just cause i sell them doesn't mean i can't be objective :p

sure you were driving the new commodore?? Your description sounds alot like a falcon...

In all seriousness though, you say you are just selling them, but it's quite obvious that you are (based on your posts here and on LS1), that you absolutely love the commodore and are excited no end about it...

So can you identify anything negative about it?