FPV GT to be killed off early - Page 8

P6LTD351 · 18-07-2013, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Maybe those with B series are just content with whet they have and have no need to change, trade in or upgrade for personal reasons? Don't let's go down the path of bashing the F series as there are MANY who have bought the FG because they like the looks, the drive, the interior, the colour, the engine and the whatever else that comes to mind.

Yes there are some who are not excited about the F series and I can tell you there are many who do not like The B or A series as well .... Difference being they don't continually put down other people's choices.

Why did B series do well? Because it marked the return of the GT. Many who hadn't bought a Ford for sometime came back to the fold when it was released. It got a great kick start. An argument to many is that the AU T series was actually a better car all round but didn't have the right badge? That is a 'what if' moment. A GT badge on the AU might have doubled sales?

I do not beleive it is the F's series fault that the Falcon has been (will be) pulled. It's been a long time coming and goes back along way. The F series is a great car. Better than others available? Probably not but to many it is.

People buy for their own reasons and it isn't up to you or us to judge or for them to justify. It's not about B vs F

Correct.

I have old magazines stating that the XF was going to be the last Falcon made in Australia. It's not the FG's fault. The close down was coming for more than 30 years.

vztrt · 18-07-2013, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EB92

I noticed that somebody on Carsales is already trying to cash in on
a 2012 R Spec, with a private sale listed at $115K. Not sure how he
will go with that price, when two other listings on similar cars are
up to $35K cheaper!

It's like those 110k cobra's that people were trying to sell. Obviously the guy won lotto cause its there now for 60k.

Sioso · 18-07-2013, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

It's like those 110k cobra's that people were trying to sell. Obviously the guy won lotto cause its there now for 60k.

There is still a Cobra ute on carsales asking $145K !!!

vztrt · 18-07-2013, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLOWN.GTP

There is still a Cobra ute on carsales asking $145K !!!

Didn't see that one.

Alan D Segal · 18-07-2013, 12:57 PM

It is their car they can ask what they want for it. You don't have to pay it and they might never get it so live and let live. If someone's stupid enough to give them what they want then good luck to 'em.

au2000 · 18-07-2013, 01:03 PM

great post esp..
i agree you either have that character in you that gets what a gt is about or you dont.
its been my goal all my life to have one & i see myself as being lucky to have been in a position to finally be able to get one cause although my fav is the 67 xr gt that will never happen for me.
to me it does not matter if it says gt, gt p or gt e its still a gt full stop. there are those who say otherwise just as there are some who say the new ones aint gt's like the x series & that s the point they aint supposed to be, these are the modern interpretation of the gt name, if they were suppose to resemble the old gt's they have sweet f/all in them & have simple front & rear spoilers & thats it. years ago there were those who saw the xr / xt / xa & xb's as lesser gt's for some strange reason but now they are all accepted for what they are, gt's.
i personally would love ford to go out with a bang on the last one but they dont see it. thats clear & its sad, but it is what it is.
as for the age of enthusiasts, well my 14 yr old was not massivley into cars until 12 mths ago, evos & wrx were his thing, but since the xd thats changed massivley & now i see him walk into the garage & smile when he looks at the gt. he gets it now.

Alan D Segal · 18-07-2013, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au2000

to me it does not matter if it says gt, gt p or gt e its still a gt full stop.

I'm the opposite on this and I know others who are similar. If I was getting a ford GT it would have to be just a GT and just a GT. Some blokes I know who drooled over them in the 70's when they were young blokes don't seem to get excited about GTPs, or GTEs, but know a GT is a GT. It is funny how people are different on this even.

Pepscobra · 18-07-2013, 01:19 PM

Haters gonna hate.
The only ones that are offended by what people ask for their cars are the ones that can't afford them.

mcnews · 18-07-2013, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan D Segal

I'm the opposite on this and I know others who are similar. If I was getting a ford GT it would have to be just a GT and just a GT. Some blokes I know who drooled over them in the 70's when they were young blokes don't seem to get excited about GTPs, or GTEs, but know a GT is a GT. It is funny how people are different on this even.

So..... Not interested in an XY GTHO then obviously as it has supplementary letters after the GT..... Never head of anything so patently ridiculous.

**Dave R** · 18-07-2013, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

Haters gonna hate.
The only ones that are offended by what people ask for their cars are the ones that can't afford them.

So you don't find the guy asking $115k for a used R-Spec a little ridiculous? Some people are just dreamers.

Alan D Segal · 18-07-2013, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnews

So..... Not interested in an XY GTHO then obviously as it has supplementary letters after the GT..... Never head of anything so patently ridiculous.

I'd be interested if they ever made another GTHO. But they don't make them and you couldn't get an XY GTE or an XY GTP. Other than the compliance plate and on the dash I don't think there was any other 'HO' marking was there? Certainly it didn't have a GTP or GTE-type badge/sticker with GTHO written on it on the sides/back of the car. Just GT and 351. Having never owned a new one I'm not sure, but that's all I remember.

mcnews · 18-07-2013, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan D Segal

I'd be interested if they ever made another GTHO. But they don't make them and you couldn't get an XY GTE or an XY GTP. Other than the compliance plate and on the dash I don't think there was any other 'HO' marking was there? Certainly it didn't have a GTP or GTE-type badge. Having never owned a new one I'm not sure, but that's all I remember.

Glovebox at least from memory had HO on it but yep not much different outside. Ford were tight cheapasis even back then, lol

flappist · 18-07-2013, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

So you don't find the guy asking $115k for a used R-Spec a little ridiculous? Some people are just dreamers.

There are always some people who get offended by an amateur attempt at comedy but most just laugh at it......because that is what you do with jokes....

Alan D Segal · 18-07-2013, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

There are always some people who get offended by an amateur attempt at comedy but most just laugh at it......because that is what you do with jokes....

And if someone pays what they want they can laugh all the way to the bank

LeadFoot81 · 18-07-2013, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESP

That's what the GT does.......it's dirty / rough around the edges....it taunts the M3.......it messes up the neat hair of the F6, runs off and calls its T series brother and ugly *&^% and then turns off and ****** in the bed of the AMG..........just for a laugh. Driving should be fun.

IMHO the AU3 T-Series is everything the B and F series GTs aren't.

Ooooooh.

Nah, B and F series GTs are all right. We're all Ford brothers and sisters here right?

LeadFoot81 · 18-07-2013, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

You need to move past thinking that the local divisions are anything but dealerships. Even when they profit its nothing inthe global context of their parents...they get a little pat on the back and a reprieve for a little longer.

In 2013, a little bit of profit from a backwater outpost may not get noticed, but a little bit of a loss will set the alarms off. You need to get past the thinking that it's OK throw good money after bad (in any business)

manny.miner · 18-07-2013, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

XR8 did the hard slog through the 90'and very much earnt it's spot as the top Falcon (and it was a proper modern equivalent of a GT)

When it was decided to attack the juicy sales that HSV had a stranglehold on, the GT name was dusted off for instant cred. My father in law and his brothers owned, drove, and worked on classic GTs and to them, modern GTs are just nice-ish cars with badges that belong on XR-XB Falcons.

Mate I agree with you in part about the xr8 being a great car in the 90's for Ford, and have been since production was ceased, but they were no GT. I guess that's why two models of the GT were produced in the '90's.....

As to suggest that the nameplate was "dusted off" just to compete with HSV, well im pretty sure there were years of planning before their release, and unless Ford had a crystal ball how could they foresee the other side's "juicy sales"?

I'm glad you agree that the GT has instant cred because that's the
whole point of why it shouldn't be deleted from the Ford/FPV lineup.

I know your old school father in law and his brothers think the "now" GT's are nice-ish cars with badges that belong on certain models, but what do you think?

Wouldn't it have been great if like in the old days, basically the way it rolled off the factory floor was the way it hit the race track? Unfortunately with the plethora of rules in SC racing we aren't so lucky. I think opinions on the new stock wouldn't be so divided if the rules hadn't changed.

We must remember that GT stands for Grand Tourer and that is exactly what it is, regardless of model.

I love the old GT's (sadly can't afford one), but am happy with my modern one which is more than worthy of the nameplate.

Sent from my Fg GT

LeadFoot81 · 18-07-2013, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

At least they're having a bloody GO and going down with a fight, not a wimper !! Much as it pains me to write this, I believe history will show the team at HSV had more vision than team FPV. In my opinion HSV's have generally been significantly better differentiated from regular Holden product than FPV has from Ford product.

The issue starts at the top. I believe when Prodrive where there, they had the capability to do much more but were held back by Fords's lack of vision and courage. The public arn't stupid. The peak of the product differentiation between regular XR6T and FPV was way back in 2007 with the BF2 Typhoon, since then there's less and less difference between a regular XR6T and F6. Cost cutting by mindless idiots with a strict focus on cost and no vision for the future is who I blame.

Meanwhile over at HSV its a different story which is why they're still ticking along and there's really long wait lists for the GTHO, opps sorry VF GTS, (which if we're honest is the car we all hoiped FPV would build one day).

Sad for the brnad if FPV goes out with a wimper...but to be honest i'm a bit over the way Ford shoot themselves in the foot in the way they do.

In my opinion HSV's got uglier as they became significantly better differentiated from the regular Holden product. Whether that differentiation netted them sales, or the large fan base due to HSV being around since the late 80's contributed to them, is debatable.

Prodrive may have been muzzled by Ford (or their own ROI calculations)

I agree that VF GTS means HSV will go out at the top of it's game (mechanically and technologically at least)

Let's see what products Ford Oz imports and how it markets itself post Falcon/FPV, I don't think they will shoot themselves in the foot but there's a lot of history to back up the theory that they could.

mcnews · 18-07-2013, 02:10 PM

I think the XR8 name plate has been well and truly overshadowed (and shamed performance wise) in every respect by the XR6T nameplate.

**Polyal** · 18-07-2013, 02:11 PM

ESP I have turned my sigs off but that was a great post, I defend my ugly T but I dont know why people get so narky. Im going to own a GT and keep the T in the garage. No reason why we cant all feel the love..

I just need to convince the missus to have a F6 instead of a SUV and id be set and Ford can jam any new car for the next 5-10 years.

**Polyal** · 18-07-2013, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

In 2013, a little bit of profit from a backwater outpost may not get noticed, but a little bit of a loss will set the alarms off. You need to get past the thinking that it's OK throw good money after bad (in any business)

I get where your coming from, but the distinction I was trying ton make is that this is it, the last roll of the dice in a game were the outcome makes no difference.

Yes if you want to be 100% objective its a waste, but not when you look at the scope of how this is all going to end up...its peanuts to save the face of a great car, and a great lineage with historical value.

Its another example of the yanks just not getting it, and typical of the way they have handles FoA since GP left.

manny.miner · 18-07-2013, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnews

I think the XR8 name plate has been well and truly overshadowed (and shamed performance wise) in every respect by the XR6T nameplate.

I agree, all because the xr6t would've dusted the xr8. Ford should have put a little more thought into that one and released a hi-po xr8 at the same time to compete.

However, I had bought my xr8 just because I wanted a V8

Sent from my Fg GT

LeadFoot81 · 18-07-2013, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manny.miner

Mate I agree with you in part about the xr8 being a great car in the 90's for Ford, and have been since production was ceased, but they were no GT. I guess that's why two models of the GT were produced in the '90's.....

As to suggest that the nameplate was "dusted off" just to compete with HSV, well im pretty sure there were years of planning before their release, and unless Ford had a crystal ball how could they foresee the other side's "juicy sales"?

I'm glad you agree that the GT has instant cred because that's the
whole point of why it shouldn't be deleted from the Ford/FPV lineup.

I know your old school father in law and his brothers think the "now" GT's are nice-ish cars with badges that belong on certain models, but what do you think?

Wouldn't it have been great if like in the old days, basically the way it rolled off the factory floor was the way it hit the race track? Unfortunately with the plethora of rules in SC racing we aren't so lucky. I think opinions on the new stock wouldn't be so divided if the rules hadn't changed.

We must remember that GT stands for Grand Tourer and that is exactly what it is, regardless of model.

I love the old GT's (sadly can't afford one), but am happy with my modern one which is more than worthy of the nameplate.

Sent from my Fg GT

The BA GT was supposed to be the Tickford T4 TE50. In early pics (with the original bonnet bulge, not the one that made production) and no stripes you can see the lineage between T3 and BA T4. The decision was made to dust off the GT badge for instant cred and $$$. Arguably the T3 deserved a GT badge as well (although I prefer the uniqueness of T series) The juicy HSV sales had been there since VS, Ford/Tickford tried to get in on the action in 99 with FTE but that didn't go so well.

I agree with dear old dad in law unfortunately...XR8 was a 'plastic not classic' car from inception and doesn't have the shadow of classic muscle cars hanging over it's head. GT unfortunately, (can) face those comparisons. He doesn't hate the new GTs or anything (neither do I, they're great cars) For a bit of background, he's either ridden in or driven XT, XW, XY, BA, BF, FG GTs.

I guess there's just a disparity that may not exist if the GT bloodline had continued through X, E, and A series.

manny.miner · 18-07-2013, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

I guess there's just a disparity that may not exist if the GT bloodline had continued through X, E, and A series.

.

I think so. I agree on the classic not plastic tag (I'd hate to see the ANCAAP safety rating on the old models, haha), but unfortunately that's evolution, I guess.

Sent from my Fg GT

LeadFoot81 · 18-07-2013, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

I get where your coming from, but the distinction I was trying ton make is that this is it, the last roll of the dice in a game were the outcome makes no difference.

Yes if you want to be 100% objective its a waste, but not when you look at the scope of how this is all going to end up...its peanuts to save the face of a great car, and a great lineage with historical value.

Its another example of the yanks just not getting it, and typical of the way they have handles FoA since GP left.

That's an odd choice of words seeing as you're pro going out on a high. It should be me saying (why waste money) on a last roll of the dice in a game where the outcome makes no difference.

I see what you're saying as well. I think 'the yanks' and Ford Oz themselves, are banking on new products (spearheaded by the Mustang) invalidating any issues people have with the wrap up of Falcon/GT.

Oh well, all that's left now is to sit back and see what Ford come up with.

Dr Smith · 18-07-2013, 03:14 PM

If the B-series GT's sold better in actual numbers, as a percentage of Falcon sales does the current FPV range fair worse of better. Obviously you always want to sell more but I think this comparison would be interesting and add some perspective.

mcnews · 18-07-2013, 03:23 PM

As a percentage of overall Falcon sales of the time would be more credible and interesting....

drew1491 · 18-07-2013, 03:32 PM

Am I the only one that doesn't care what badge is on the car?
To me it seems silly from a marketing point of view to keep changing the models around from what people know but if the new XR8 is the same car as the GT then who really cares?

XWGT · 18-07-2013, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew1491

Am I the only one that doesn't care what badge is on the car?
To me it seems silly from a marketing point of view to keep changing the models around from what people know but if the new XR8 is the same car as the GT then who really cares?

Makes it difficult to join a Falcon GT club with an XR8..

au2000 · 18-07-2013, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XWGT

Makes it difficult to join a Falcon GT club with an XR8..

lol i think that the only reason that this has sturred up emotions well for me anyways is why re introduce xr8 nameplate right at the end for 18 months or so? to me the gs is the closest in concept to the xr8 as it retains almost all of the xr falcon look so why not just release the last v8 whatever it is as a gs or a gt & just stick the blue oval on it?