'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txXH9_lNZ7o

What does everyone reckon about this topic?

Any experiences, good or bad? Did it save you? Did it annoy you?

Are some cars better, are some more notorious than others?

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

It’s a compensator for pure incompetence, and lazy and bad driving habits.
Worse case scenario, look at the health and safety money spinning industry and the absolute window licking retards who are a product of it.
I’m thinking of anyone who works on a mine site. Void of any common sense and needs to be told how to wipe their own ****.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

I found it funny when my late father bought his second wife an audi with all the bells and whistles to replace her holden frontera (the less cool version of an isuzu mu). She complained about the beeps (when blindspot monitors go nuts because you are about to sideswipe another car or tree), the shaking steering wheel ( lane keep, it doesnt do that if you are not swerving in your lane), and the intermittent brakes slamming on and hazzards flashing. Again, that was the frontal crash avoidance. Well, no one else had any issues in the q5. It was a nice car, nothing wrong with it at all. My dads wife just could not drive. But it was way easier to blame the car.
I still beleive in darwinism. Put every learner in a manual crapper with no abs brakes or backup camera and make them actually learn how to drive.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

I always turn off all these aids where you can when I drive modern car which is not often.

My daily driver (manual) has none of these aids and I get by just fine and that is what I like :)

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

I've actually found it makes driving safer for me, it's saved my bacon a couple of times.

I don't have any driver aids in my cars but I'm sure glad the people around me do.
Just this week driving down the freeway old mate slaps on the indicator and without even glancing in the mirror starts to come across. The car took over and stuck him right back in his lane the look of shock and surprise on his face was priceless. Not that he seemed to care, he even went for a second swing at it:lol

Lets face it no one values driving standards anymore even on an enthusiasts forum like this you have to wonder sometimes.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

Compliance in general. Everything requires certification, and for what? The most ridiculous thing I've seen recently is someone post-landscaping reno offering up free fill, and the Karens come out of the woodwork asking if it's 'certified'. FMD.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

The blindspot warning can be handy, but the emergency braking picks up parked cars too easily and panics approaching 2-lane roundabouts where someone is stopped at the inside lane.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

2021 Escape here and i don’t mind them at all.. None are any inconvenience and rarely kick in anyhow.
Now and again you’ll get the flashing “collision imminent” if someone merges too close in front of you, but car has never automatically braked..
Some are even a great thing.. reversing out of a parking spot when view blocked by a van parked beside you for example.. Gives a beep or 2 to let you know someones coming..
And the flashing thing in side mirrors good too especially when a motorbike sneaks into l/h blind spot..

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

It does sounds silly asking.

Until someone has given you "free" landfill that contains Red imported fire ant (RIFA) (Solenopsis invicta), one of the worst invasive species to reach Australia that can cause extensive damage to ecological and agricultural systems.

Or soil infected with fungus Fusarium oxysporum f. sp. cubense (Foc) (aka. Panama disease), which is one of the most destructive plant diseases of modern times.

Or soils that contain acid sulfate, which are soils are natural sediments that contain iron sulfides. It can kill both plants and animinals.

(As an aside to a discussion in another thread, acid sulfate soils are problematic when undergrounding overhead powerlines in certain locations. It can blow the project budget clean out of the water.)

Certainly around where I live, both fire ants and acid sulfate soils are highly problematic. I would be hesitant to accept any freebies.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

Went to a crash 1 day, old lady with a brand new Golf, she had gone to her daughters to show her the brand new car she had just picked up, pulled into the driveway and placed her foot on the brake, she noticed that she should move further up but being cautious she left her foot resting on the brake, she presses the accelerator to move and got nothing so she pushed a bit further, at the same time she released the brake and the car took off slamming through the roller door into her daughters car parked inside pushing it through the kitchen wall.

Now I cant understand why they would cut the accelerator when the brake is applied anyway, and what circumstance would this be necessary poor old lady had never experienced this in her old Micra and was just driving the new Golf the same way she always had.

I think that these aids should be a option that you can turn off and turn back on yourself, if you think you need them, I hate my Wife's car stop start, and I hate how I have to turn it off every time I get in, it should be the other way around and if I want it on I turn it on when I get in.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

My Puma does that imminent collision flashing but never emergency brakes whereas my prev Skoda did and saved my bacon when an l plater merged into my lane
My front proximity beepers beep if I m stopped at a light with a nib wall beside me
Lane keep turned off permanently
Stop start turned off every trip
Rear traffic alert is great
Blind spot assist is great
Active cruise control is great
Beeping at
Me to check
There’s nobody in the rear seat when I park annoys me

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

Guess it depends on the AIDs itself. Abs and esp are good tech, people panic or don't know how to get out of a situation when in trouble.
ACC radar, I'm not a fan. I'd prefer just to have the speed I set and I'll work out if I want to slow down and tail someone or if I'll go around.
360 camera is cool, don't mind that one... especially with modern vehicles having worse visibility.
The steering assist, blind spot monitoring, AEB really don't want it.
Personally would prefer to be able to set and forget these features as opposed to having to turn it off every time (I know it's for 5 star ENCAP ratings), or be able to not have the features in the vehicles and have a cheaper purchase price.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

yes..........electronic crap.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

??? Electric brake

Vw are finicky things with even a normal pull up handbrake
I find it best to apply release hand brake in vw with the engine off because of the dsg transmission characteristics
My Puma is the same
I never use the hand brake when driving or at lights etc
Even on a hill start if you try and use the handbrake on a dsg transmission it will surprise you

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

No not handbrake, if you touch the foot brake with the accelerator pressed it cuts the accelerator, if you let the brake go it accelerates, she might have had the accelerator mashed?, anyway she wrote off a 2 hour old car, here daughters car and killed a kitchen wall.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

I agree.
Our Tucson Highlander has a stack of all the so called 'bad tech'
Some of it i really find handy, radar cruise ive found is handy, particularly if someone in front is doing say 113/110, but sometimes it can be a small time before i realise the car in front was under the limit on a dual lane highway and i can overtake them :lol
Rear traffic alert reversing out of parks as you said is also very handy.
I do find with ours the lane departure can be a little invasive but i can deal with it no issue.
Its a basic feature these days, reverse camera, but i still find myself turning around when reversing.
It also has a 360 degree camera which is handy when im parking it.

What i dont agree with is driving school cars having it. They've been dumbed down enough to only be capable to get an automatic licence, let alone having some 'help' from the car. (i seen a driving school car with someone learning have a lane departure light in the side mirror come on as i went by).

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

There must be a few repeats of this with all these turbo Chinese four cyl suvs with dual clutch autos
The engine turbo and auto don’t work in unision and there is sfa acceleration on depressing accelerator give it a touch more and the turbo kicks in and it’s rockets to the moon stuff hard to accelerate away smoothly and of course fwd and worn tyres add another dimension

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

This begs the question: say you turn off the ones you don't like (every time...) and are in an accident, what might the response of the insurance company be?

Found I personally had to act as one of the safety assistance beepers in the week, took uni child on mountain hike and got them to drive back, freshly minted on Ps. Coming from 100 zone to left dish-off lane to road to town, they were coming in pretty hot, so I went "brake," and we kept going, so then "break.... break! brakebreakbrakebrake brakebrake!!!". They had put foot on the accelerator instead of the brake. A last second application, and we got around the corner.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

Not sure if that was in reply to my post.
But ours isnt DCT, and its AWD not FWD albeit FWD biased. Never had any of the issues you've stated.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

more dangerous? only indirectly. as the sheep rely on it more and more, their concentration on anything outside the car becomes less and less. That's what's dangerous not the ADAS features themseles

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

In theory, should be safer for people getting on with age where reflexes and mindfulness isn't as sharp as they used to be. I say in theory, because it can be hard to teach (some) old dogs new tricks, and they probably would just ignore all the bells and warnings anyway.

My dad is a prime example. How the fudge do you still back into a pole when the car is yelling at you that there is something close behind?!?!?!

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

Its when people rely on safety stuff. Then there are people with the same mindset as myself. Its nice to know a car has safety features, complain about paying for full comprehensive car insurance, but you never want to use any of that stuff. Even if your car has the blindspot light thing in the mirror, you should still do a head check before changing lanes. Im very much on the fence about reverse cameras as in, if you are looking at the infotainment screen you arent looking where you are going. I prefer parking sensors for that reason. They beep regardless of if its a solid object or a child.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

No your car is Korean
Was in response to
PRCtkl jokers post about a Golf driving through a house

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

Can they invent something to make drivers look over their shoulder before doing a U turn in front of others.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

I think electronic driving aids fall into two categories. Those that work and are good. Those that need more work and trigger needlessly.

Take ABS/ESC. I know for a fact that a good driver can outperform ABS/ECS. I have seen it done in advanced driver training by professional drivers and (at the end of my training) I too was able to beat ABS in braking distance by a small margin. But that was in controlled conditions when I knew exactly what to expect and I had been primed for the conditions.

A few weeks ago, on a dark and wet night, I was travelling up Corodelia St, South Brisbane in the right hand lane. A pedestrian on the RHS - with headphones on and looking ahead (no traffic on that part of the one-way street) - randomly decided now would be a good time to cross the street. Without looking behind her, stepped off the curb just in front of me. This triggered a startled response out of me and without thinking I completely mashed the brake to the floor as hard as I could. Thanks to the ABS & ECS, we pulled up in time. The car tracked straight and didn't follow the camber of the road into a waiting power pole. Saved by the electronics.

When I had the Outlander PHEV, I had a love hate relationship with its collision avoidance. It would needlessly trigger at a curve in Gympie Rd at Aspley (perhaps the steel traffic lights spoofed it). But it saved my bacon bigtime on the Gateway at Nudgee. The left had lanes were slowing down due to merging traffic. I was spending too much time watching my rearview mirror. Then an impatient driver pulled out of the left hand lane, into my lane. I just didn’t see it at all. Fortunately, the Outlander PHEV collision avoidance screamed at me and then slammed on the brakes. Giving me just enough time to swerve into the shoulder. Saved by the electronics again.

But I do get it that some of the electronic drivers aids are rubbish. The Toyota Corolla that I occasionally rented would spend its time gently oscillating from the left to the right of its lane on a well marked freeway. Same car would also occasionally verbally admonish with a voice in the cabin to obey the road rules, with the display saying that the speed limit as 70 kph when it was clearly sign posted at 90 kph. The Hyundai crapbox something rental would just randomly tug hard at the wheel.

But the electronics that really gets up my nose is the stop/start systems.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

God did that, its called a neck. Then humans worked out reflections, that evolved into the invention of mirrors, then some genius automotive engineer thought it was a good idea to integrate them into automobiles. But its 2024......

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

If I'm having a voice admonishing me, I want it to be Palki, she's so stern :gorgeous

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj_Pr38vj8k

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

Good timing on this thread, riding shotgun at the moment in the old man's i30N

Blind spot warning going off its head, because of the car in the inside lane also waiting to turn right, I30N decides to start going off its head, it does the same thing in roundabouts.

https://i.postimg.cc/jSJWxG0s/PXL-20...-063434821.jpg

The problem with bullshit alarms is you just ignore them, they lose their purpose if this stuff is over sensitive.

Here's what the old man does every time he drives it:

https://i.postimg.cc/gJJbdLr1/PXL-20...23067-MP-2.jpg

Every bullshit feature OFF, the ones that wrestle control of the car from you, because they're way oversensitive.

I like ABS/ESC, parking sensors and 360 cameras but reefing on the brakes or taking the steering wheel off you, **** off. Stop/start systems can also GAGF to save the poofteenth of fuel you use idling at intersections.

Maybe other implementations of it are way better, because the Hyundai throttle mapping and it's cruise control implementation is an absolute joke compared to Ford Europe's, so maybe the AEB and other safety systems are better implemented in other brands.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

Has anyone done a hack to turn them off permanently? Otherwise, that sounds like the joy of setting up your ipad, every single time you drive.

And question from before, again, what would the insurance company think about that?

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

It's a pain in the ***, we asked Hyundai if they can default them to off with the dealer scan tool but apparently they can't.

Every time you start the car you have to go into vehicle settings and turn off all the forward safety and lane keeping settings.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

Sounds very repetitive & a drag.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

A guy at work has a Mercedes with lane assistance.
He was saying, that lane assistance uses the rear brakes and the lane assistance wears the rear brakes out more quickly than the front.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

It has been downhill ever since they introduced the Automatic Transmission.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

I'll just weigh in here that I love the systems on the Teslas. They're not perfect but once you know how they work and under what circumstances to use them, they're great.

Few things that need work for our roads (not limited to Tesla here) is lane Departure correction. Driving trying to avoid a dead roo, the car swerved back into the lane thinking it needed to correct the car. Could still overrule it but it was not expected behaviour. I turn it off on all my cars when driving on highways now.

Problem is the car turns it on again every restart because that is the rules.

ABS is fantastic. I never understand people saying they can out perform ABS which isn't designed to reduce stopping distances anyway. It's designed so you can still turn and control the vehicle rather than going into a skid. It also only turns on when you over brake for the surface. You can avoid triggering ABS but not out brake it because that's not its job.

Traction control and stability control are fantastic driving aids. As is power steering, vacuum assisted brakes... More good than bad out there

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

If the car maker allows these options to be turned off, then the insurance company can do nothing if you are involved in accident, as it is not a mandatory requirement.

Cheers.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

Classic example of the value of lane control. Dash Cam of a driver who falls asleep at wheel - Menangle Park NSW


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0Pp...wnersAustralia

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

Good driving by the DC driver to get out of the way

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

as they are now part of the ANCAP/NCAP score, does that mean they can't be turned off permanently? ANCAP isn't a legal thing, but I doubt any insurer would look favorably if you did inhibit them.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

Correct. In an effort to reduce "human error" ANCAP was written up so:

the system needs to be default ON at the start of every journey and deactivation of the system should not be possible with a momentary single push on a button.

Personally, in the real world, with such increased complexity of systems, there are now critical times when driving work load actually increases with focus shifting inside the car, not out. Single button is quick. Multiple touch screens/warning lights/beeps not so much.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

So, you're saying you are one of those that only use the mirror to pull out ?

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

Nah, i do both checks.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

Haven't driven a vehicle with any of the mentioned assistance aids. Doesn't sound like I want to either.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

For anyone judging all these systems from cars that are 2, 3, 4 years old or longer, you may need to reconsider your views.
These systems are constantly being refined, improved and recalibrated.
Todays Ford Ranger for example is miles ahead of a 2022 Ranger despite them being identical cars on paper. Todays lane keep system is far more subtle and less intrusive. You no longer feel like you are fighting it.
I used to hate all these systems but now tend to just leave them on as I now believe they do more good that harm.
There are exceptions and all are not created equal. Some other brands autonomous emergency braking does have a habit of jamming the brakes on at 100km/h because a butterfly flapped it’s wings 4 post codes away or a leaf blew across the road. But even that seems to be improving.

The one place I would turn off the lane keep system is a windy country road. Particularly if I’m in the mood for some more spirited driving.

I’d generally never turn off stability control or traction control as I’m too old for burnouts. And todays systems are very good, particularly on high performance cars as they tend to give you a certain amount of slip or sideways action, and intervention is now pretty smooth unless things are getting pretty ugly.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

I’d bet real money that is not the case. The lane assist would function through the electric power steering.

It is possible that some functions of the stability control or traction control use individual brakes to manipulate the attitude of the car to either initiate or eliminate a slide. This is common in some sports cars that have a sport or drift setting in the stability control.
I’m not aware of any cars using brakes for lane keeping duty.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

But his mate said so!

You're 100% spot on btw

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

My wifes AMG 45s slows the car as part of the lane keeping function, it is actually annoying.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

From a risk of something going wrong point of view (electric gremlins) - what can cause the most damage - steering or rear brakes? IMO rear brakes a lot safer way to do it.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

Braking the rear brakes to hold it in lane makes no sense. Stability control slide to keeping in a lane are two very different events.

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

You are thinking like an engineer . . think like a car company lawyer looking at potential liability :-)

Re: 'Electronic safety assistance actually makes driving more dangerous' - your thoughts?
 

On the Everest and Tesla, it definitely turns the steering. On our old Mercedes, it turned the steering too to keep it in its lane.

The rear brakes activated if you slid out the rear (like on track or low friction surfaces).