AU..to lsd vs open wheeler ..the truth??? - Page 2

Casper · 16-10-2005, 06:19 PM

I agree with John on this one, a SS is anything but predictable. It can so do many different things you just dont know what it will do. An LSD will be far mor predictable. It isnt spinning or it is. I'll take my chances with that rather than the "I'll spin one wheel... now maybe 2.. but now one again, ah hell, I'll snap back now.. and now I will just lift the inside and you are going to sit half way across the intersection making smoke etc etc etc". Screw that.. give me a Yes or a No response to spinning anyday.

**Stav** · 16-10-2005, 06:20 PM

LSD is going to happen.Doesnt cost all that much..should be able to use alot more of those 3300 odd rpm off the line.

However the ratio change is ticking me off. Sounds like a can of worms that I don't need. I know that there is much info out there but it would be great to find someone who has done it without a j3 chip in a auto and how it went..

stiddy · 16-10-2005, 06:27 PM

I have an LSD in my car and it dosnet always spin both wheels, sometimes it starts to spin both and then it will stop and just deliver all the power to one wheel.. and other times it just spins both without any dramas.. in straight line or going left it spins both.. but if i turn right it usually just spins the inside wheel until i grab 2nd then the *** end slides around... only sometimes.. most of the time its 2 wheels.. but i take it easy around corners jsut incase now..

xr8ute · 16-10-2005, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

However the ratio change is ticking me off. Sounds like a can of worms that I don't need. I know that there is much info out there but it would be great to find someone who has done it without a j3 chip in a auto and how it went..

You and me both. When I get my diff rebuilt, assuming it's only a few hundred more, I'd like to get a set of 3.9's in there.

I don't wont to waste $600 on a ChipTorque when Edit is so close. But I don't want to waste my track day at WSID on the 30th with auto-shift, rpm-limit, and speed-limit problems because of a confused EEC...

Need to do some more research me thinks, and if I can't find an answer I'll stick with the 3.45's

JC · 16-10-2005, 06:33 PM

Race cars use LSD for a reason - it instils more precdictably and confidence in the car. LSDs are optional on most (if not all) falcons from the factory - do you really think the factory would have an option that does not meety safety standards (leavcing them open to being sued)? No way. The argument as to which is safer is irrelevant - both are safe under normal driving conditions. An SS or an LSD in the rear does not stop idiots from being idiots.

EFFalcon · 16-10-2005, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiddy

I have an LSD in my car and it dosnet always spin both wheels, sometimes it starts to spin both and then it will stop and just deliver all the power to one wheel.. and other times it just spins both without any dramas.. in straight line or going left it spins both.. but if i turn right it usually just spins the inside wheel until i grab 2nd then the *** end slides around... only sometimes.. most of the time its 2 wheels.. but i take it easy around corners jsut incase now..

sounds like your LSD is flogged.

**Stav** · 16-10-2005, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiddy

I have an LSD in my car and it dosnet always spin both wheels, sometimes it starts to spin both and then it will stop and just deliver all the power to one wheel.. and other times it just spins both without any dramas.. in straight line or going left it spins both.. but if i turn right it usually just spins the inside wheel until i grab 2nd then the *** end slides around... only sometimes.. most of the time its 2 wheels.. but i take it easy around corners jsut incase now..

This is the common problem I am seeing Stiddy.The **** end slides out when going around corners like its not reall grabbing the road but dragging the back tyres around and literally hear a dragging sound.

Xr8ute...I dont like doing things without knowing the nitty gritty about them.I will not spend 1400 dollars on a 3.9 or 3.7 diff to have endless other headaches.An LSD does have advantages and is probably a good mod for me at the moment.But the gear change sounds better than its pannng out in my search to sort out the facts from fiction. Id rather have a few t bone steaks and put the rest into my home loan..

stiddy · 16-10-2005, 06:43 PM

i had my car into a diff and trans specialist bout a year ago.. and he said nothing was wrong.. its still right etc etc.. and after that it started getting worse but now its sort of just stayed the way it has been for about 6 months.. its not getting worse or better.. but i want to get a set of 3.9 gears in aswell keeping with lsd of course..

MrQuan · 16-10-2005, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

Mr Quan waht happens if you accelerate hard now?Do you hit any speed or rev limiters.

I have a speedo corrector kit, so it's ok usually. If I have it on power mode and floor it I sometimes hit the rev limiter for a second before it changes from first to second - but that's most likely due to my transmission being shagged (in need of a rebuild).

My speed limiter did come down by about 30 to 40kmph, but has been corrected since I installed the speedo corrector kit from Jaycar.

**Stav** · 16-10-2005, 06:46 PM

the symptoms you arer telling me about I found in a 1993 fairlane and xc wagon. Looking at the situation now ..i think the best option is to find a wrecker with an au xr6 hp and get its computer and 3.45 lsd in at the same time.

**Stav** · 16-10-2005, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrQuan

I have a speedo corrector kit, so it's ok usually. If I have it on power mode and floor it I sometimes hit the rev limiter for a second before it changes from first to second - but that's most likely due to my transmission being shagged (in need of a rebuild).

My speed limiter did come down by about 30 to 40kmph, but has been corrected since I installed the speedo corrector kit from Jaycar.

Thank you man!
What changed the speed limit?The diff change or speedo correction and would under correcting this possibly fix the rev limit problem?

MrQuan · 16-10-2005, 06:50 PM

LSD do take some getting used to. They aren't as easy to control arround corners in my opinion until you get the hang of it. I find with the LSD, if I begin to lose the back end around a corner, all I need to do is release the accelerator and the back end will regain traction (where as an open wheeler would be much harder to regain control).

Sharp cornering even at slow speeds will scrub your tyres lots, so be prepared for more tyre wear too.

MrQuan · 16-10-2005, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

Thank you man!
What changed the speed limit?The diff change or speedo correction and would under correcting this possibly fix the rev limit problem?

The speedo corrector fixed the speed limiter problem. Before that it would limit it at the speedo reading of ~170kmph, but I was really only going 140-ish (the higher ratio gears make your speedo read too high). As soon as you correct the signal going from your transmission (speed transducer) and the dash - both the speedo and ECU get a correct speed reading (fixing the speed limiting problem).

As far as rev limiting goes, Economy mode is now more like power mode, and power mode is... insane. I'm too scared to try power mode too much until I sort out the transmission - but it does seem to rev out a bit... but like I said I think that's the trans, not the LSD.

xr8ute · 16-10-2005, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

..i think the best option is to find a wrecker with an au xr6 hp and get its computer and 3.45 lsd in at the same time.

Probably not a bad way to go depending on cost from wrecker.

On the other hand because the tune in the EEC is different (using XR6 copmuter), your Unichip would need a re-tune. Worst case is you'll have pinging because it's running too lean/advanced...

Should help your idle though ;)

16-10-2005, 08:12 PM

is there any differenc between an au xr6 hp eec and standard au eec. the only difference i thought between the both was the camshaft profile all the rest is suposed to be the same .

**Stav** · 16-10-2005, 08:17 PM

Nik..I am thinking that if it fits...that the shift patterns would suit the 3.45 diff better and it has adaptive shift ...apart from that it may help a bigger cam idle..

**Stav** · 25-10-2005, 06:08 PM

Thanks for advice all ..the lsd done by Gear Exchange Services 10 long st ,Smithfield 96091514..these guys were really good.$ 550 gets your diff to an lsd.It is quieter....

xr8ute · 25-10-2005, 07:23 PM

Did you get some shorter gears to go with your LSD?

SileNceR · 25-10-2005, 08:20 PM

wow the amount of myth involved in this thread is amazing.

having had both, and in the same ratio... LSD is a much, much, much better option.

my Open diff (single spinner) was as unpredictable as anything... you could be driving along normally and all of a sudden both wheels would break traction - other times you might have a single wheel spin ( tyres in the wet) and for manual it only ever seemed that when you wanted it to spin both wheels it wouldnt (Didn't do too bad off the line tho, often spun twins)

LSD is much better, more reliable feeling thru corners, give it stick thru corners in the wet hard enough (tyre dependant) and it'll step out - yes, but it's a heck of a lot more controllable...

I once took off at a set of lights with my open diff and had the diff swapping which wheel it wanted to spin - nz(karl) was in the car at the time, swapped about4 times.... wierd as and the car was sort of flexing from one side to the other (squirming perhaps).... open diff scared me...

LSD initially was a bit of a worry how easy it went sideways when u wanted it to... but you learn how to drive with them and when you want them to grip they do, and you know what to do and when they will go sideways (if you practice enough ;) ).

Good tyres make all the difference tho... even in the wet with my current tyres it takes the addition of weight transfer or a really oily area of road to make my car break traction at all - I can launch full throttle in the wet from a set of lights, with fairly harsh gear shifts in my power band and still not get any wheelspin... old tyres would have kicked out well and truly just full-throttle in gear... a car with extreme amounts of power might be similar - upgrade the power you have to upgrade the tyres - hence why FPV/HSV have higher spec tyres on cars standard than do Ford/Holden on their base models... ss can be a safety measure i guess, in that in a straight line it will probably spin one wheel if overcome (but you are twice as likely for it to happen than with LSD, as you have 50% the effective grip!) but around corners... ss is unpredictable - you don't know if its going to behave like an LSD or not - at least with a good LSD you know what it's going to do if you poke it

MustangNicko · 26-10-2005, 12:50 AM

Just buy all the speedo bits and pieces from Ford. FPV's use 3.7's so you shouldnt have a problem.

jonbays · 26-10-2005, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MustangNicko

Just buy all the speedo bits and pieces from Ford. FPV's use 3.7's so you shouldnt have a problem.

Useless has an AU so the FPV BA style personality module PCM software change to different tyres and or diff ratio isn't possible.

**Stav** · 28-10-2005, 08:00 PM

Well after a few days with an lsd I must say that a normal driving speeds the car handles better.However an attemp to get around a corner at full throttle resulted in the wheels spinning and the car fishtailing out of control .The single spinner is by far safer then the lsd...

xr8ute · 28-10-2005, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

an attemp to get around a corner at full throttle resulted in the wheels spinning and the car fishtailing out of control

Dude....maybe you shouldn't go around all corners at full throttle now, lol.

With power comes responsibility ;)

**Stav** · 28-10-2005, 08:39 PM

ahah!!!Btw results of the diff change and stallie

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...890#post382890

MustangNicko · 28-10-2005, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

The single spinner is by far safer then the lsd...

Im sorry for having a dig at you... but you're a girl lol ;)

**Stav** · 28-10-2005, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MustangNicko

Im sorry for having a dig at you... but you're a girl lol ;)

No Im not! I just dont like dying or being in unnecesary pain.

MustangNicko · 28-10-2005, 09:37 PM

Then dont go full throtal around corners... err lol

**Stav** · 28-10-2005, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MustangNicko

Then dont go full throtal around corners... err lol

EHHEHE...
I wont...kinda miss the burnouts with the single spinner and the other thing is how it will behave in the wet.?

xr8ute · 28-10-2005, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

and the other thing is how it will behave in the wet.?

Be gentle with the throttle, and you'll both come back in one piece ;)

MustangNicko · 28-10-2005, 10:11 PM

Well... it will kick out in the wet... lol are you doing all this for attention? :/

Single spinner burnouts suck the big one. LSD > Single Spinners.

LSD <3