120.8rwkw!! - Page 2

**Bluepower** · 09-11-2006, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiddy

looks a little shifty to me.

Your game.

stiddy · 09-11-2006, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluepower

Your game.

Lets play.

Doogstar · 09-11-2006, 08:24 PM

Hey Evan,

It was great to meet you down at Heathcote last Sunday.

If you are feeling the difference in power, then edit must of worked. I don't think that Chris would ever purposely fudge any dyno results. If he couldn't get more out of her, he would have just told you that. Chris would not risk his considerable reputation by doctoring a 120rwkw tune (no offence at all Evan). I have always found Chris to be extremely upfront and honest in my dealings with him.

It has been my experience that it takes the ecu a few days to earn itself around a new tune, racing it the next day and after a long drive to Heathcote, it probably hadn't settled in yet. I know x_phantox_x had his tuned on the Saturday and raced it that night and was a bit disapointed, but he has since said that it had really picked up heaps a few days later and is really happy now.

I put new diff gears in and didn't beat my PB on Sunday, without the new gears I reckon I would have got a 14.9 at best. The conditions there were crap on Sunday. Take it down to race again in better conditions Evan, I'm sure it will be a different story.

Cheers,
Doug

stiddy · 09-11-2006, 08:47 PM

I dont doubt that the edit worked, im just questioning how well it worked. Look at the simple facts:

The car made 120rwkw with the edit, in a world of all things good thats around 8% gain over stock. In similar conditions to the nats the car ran a 15.9 stock. Edit gets added he gains the extra power goes back and runs a 16.2 or 16.3 ??
This is where the AT and IT come into play... the AT and IT were significantly different enough to get people asking questions, if a car is sucking in 16C air and being measured at 30C, there is enough of a correction factor to distort the reading.
Now thinking about it, a car with 120rwkw should run .2 to .3 faster than a 110rwkw car. Basically what im getting at is that if the track conditions were at their worst the car should still be running around 15.9
As for the ecu learning around edit, I agree to a certain extent but there would be no reason to expect it to "bed in" over a number of days as cars modified at the track with an edit tune have shown immediate results in the past, ie. ratters 290

ClassicAU · 09-11-2006, 08:59 PM

Ok, ok, i never started this thread intending to start trouble or proove anything to anyone. I was happy with the change and wanted to share it with my fellow Ford fans. The fact that i ran worse times the other day is most likely down to my driving as well, as i was stuffing around with shifting and i cant drive!! :P As for the dyno, i have no idea about the specifics so its not for me to say. Stiddy, you are entitled to your opinion and i value your input, but i dont want this to turn into an argument.

stiddy · 09-11-2006, 09:05 PM

I dont want an argument either but I think the dyno sheet has possibly raised more questions than it has answered..
Im just not convinced as the numbers dont add up.

LilMissDrift · 09-11-2006, 09:10 PM

Baby ur all that i want.. when ur lying here in my arms... im finding it hard to believe ur in heaven.. COME ON EVERYONE JOIN IN...

LOL..sorry just thought i'd ease the tension.. i think i can cut through the air with a hot butter knife right now!

AU2PWR · 09-11-2006, 09:26 PM

easy lads , its only a start , Evan , your car is quicker than mine , ill shut up now :

Futura01 · 09-11-2006, 09:33 PM

[QUOTE=LilMissDrift]Baby ur all that i want.. when ur lying here in my arms... im finding it hard to believe ur in heaven.. COME ON EVERYONE JOIN IN...

: WHAT THE F....... where did that come from !!!!!

:

Any how what stiddy is saying the could be discrepancies with the outcome of the power figure !!!
Anyhow not to blame anybody but these things happen to the best of us !!! i am pretty sure if you take it back on any other given day there wont be too much of a diffrence.
good luck with it and i am sure it's going alot better then before

LilMissDrift · 09-11-2006, 09:44 PM

lol... it was indeed crazy... lol the whole "HEAVEN" thing.. but as u could see the "posts" were gettin heated and were soon to end up in a MAD RIOT.. lol..so i thought i'd lighten the mood by a group song.. lol...

ReVd_uP · 09-11-2006, 09:51 PM

riiiiiight.....

LilMissDrift · 09-11-2006, 09:57 PM

LOL... Dnt worry... plus the whole Straight 6 thing is really annoying me.. i so badly want a supercharger - .. maybe.. mm how good would the times be for my sexxxy au fairmont then hey!

superroo · 09-11-2006, 10:06 PM

Nice work evan. Thats got to be one nice car to drive now with the lsd and edit.
One quick question though, How much did the tune cost?

Cheers

**Bluepower** · 10-11-2006, 09:28 AM

Stiddy, (deep breath)

We dont "doctor" dyno figures. (we dont need to.)

I dont post dyno sheets myself, because there is always someone whose knowledge on the subject is fairly loose who will grab a few tidbits and make it into an emmy award winning story. For the record, to deliberatly raise the IT by 8 degrees will not even amount to 1 kilowatt - if you wish to know this, organise an impartial forums member to come in here and i'll prove it. I recently had a client ask this, and he was shocked to learn the difference was in fact so small.

Lastly, i have been drag racing for a long time, and just because the car picks up power, doesn't always mean track conditions will be favourable for a PB.

For example, on the weekend, I expected my car to run number x - it actually ran 4 tenths slower, although did show good power on the dyno. Cams290 also expected better - but conditions were such that a good number couldn't be achieved. Cars that usually ran 11.8's were running low 12's, and for the slower cars like the I6's, it expands to at least 4 tenths.

All the I6 guys were 2 tenths down on their pb's due to conditions. One of our BA clients had 4.1 gears fitted to his car and couldn't pb - we cannot beat mother nature. Hamo's ute, previously a 13.00 car went 13.4's.

I will let your "shifty" comment slide, because im certain that your day to day existence does not include running a dyno for at least 6 hours a day - but a strong suggestion is that next time you want to call somebody something - at least be a man about it and say it in person. You have my number, if you wish to learn more or know more on the subject, im happy to teach you.

jonbays · 10-11-2006, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluepower

Stiddy, (deep breath)

We dont "doctor" dyno figures. (we dont need to.)

I dont post dyno sheets myself, because there is always someone whose knowledge on the subject is fairly loose who will grab a few tidbits and make it into an emmy award winning story. For the record, to deliberatly raise the IT by 8 degrees will not even amount to 1 kilowatt - if you wish to know this, organise an impartial forums member to come in here and i'll prove it. I recently had a client ask this, and he was shocked to learn the difference was in fact so small.

Lastly, i have been drag racing for a long time, and just because the car picks up power, doesn't always mean track conditions will be favourable for a PB.

For example, on the weekend, I expected my car to run number x - it actually ran 4 tenths slower, although did show good power on the dyno. Cams290 also expected better - but conditions were such that a good number couldn't be achieved. Cars that usually ran 11.8's were running low 12's, and for the slower cars like the I6's, it expands to at least 4 tenths.

All the I6 guys were 2 tenths down on their pb's due to conditions. One of our BA clients had 4.1 gears fitted to his car and couldn't pb - we cannot beat mother nature. Hamo's ute, previously a 13.00 car went 13.4's.

I will let your "shifty" comment slide, because im certain that your day to day existence does not include running a dyno for at least 6 hours a day - but a strong suggestion is that next time you want to call somebody something - at least be a man about it and say it in person. You have my number, if you wish to learn more or know more on the subject, im happy to teach you.

Spiro at Autotech in Sydney ran an evening session on his dyno and showed us all the things the operator can do that change the outright figures and IT and AT changes were all part of that.

You do have to ask the question about why there is such a difference.

Not that your dyno charts are too badly optimistic how about Croydens in Sydney where the IT is 10 degrees lower than the AT? what is that about?

stiddy · 10-11-2006, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluepower

Stiddy, (deep breath)

We dont "doctor" dyno figures. (we dont need to.)

I dont post dyno sheets myself, because there is always someone whose knowledge on the subject is fairly loose who will grab a few tidbits and make it into an emmy award winning story. For the record, to deliberatly raise the IT by 8 degrees will not even amount to 1 kilowatt - if you wish to know this, organise an impartial forums member to come in here and i'll prove it. I recently had a client ask this, and he was shocked to learn the difference was in fact so small.

Lastly, i have been drag racing for a long time, and just because the car picks up power, doesn't always mean track conditions will be favourable for a PB.

For example, on the weekend, I expected my car to run number x - it actually ran 4 tenths slower, although did show good power on the dyno. Cams290 also expected better - but conditions were such that a good number couldn't be achieved. Cars that usually ran 11.8's were running low 12's, and for the slower cars like the I6's, it expands to at least 4 tenths.

All the I6 guys were 2 tenths down on their pb's due to conditions. One of our BA clients had 4.1 gears fitted to his car and couldn't pb - we cannot beat mother nature. Hamo's ute, previously a 13.00 car went 13.4's.

I will let your "shifty" comment slide, because im certain that your day to day existence does not include running a dyno for at least 6 hours a day - but a strong suggestion is that next time you want to call somebody something - at least be a man about it and say it in person. You have my number, if you wish to learn more or know more on the subject, im happy to teach you.

Chris (I dont need a breath),

You didn’t really even try to explain why the IT was double the AT. Fair enough 8 degrees may not change the output reading much but why would the temperature be almost double in the intake than it is outside of it if the air is just rushing through. You may run a dyno all day and I certainly don’t but that doesn’t mean you can just ignore the question and simply state that you know better so don’t anyone ask. Basically what you are saying is that given 10rwkw is probably worth 3/10ths and that ClassicAU’s car was running another 3/10ths off it PB, the conditions on the day were about 6/10ths out of his favour. Given you said all the I6 guys were 2/10ths off, it still doesn’t add up to me.

I cant say I am convinced that the times and power on the graph match up and that conditions are purely to blame and I don’t think you’ve tried to even answer the original AT and IT question but if ClassicAU’s happy with it, and he seems to be, that’s all that really matters in the end. I’ll leave it alone now.

poolkeeper · 10-11-2006, 08:24 PM

Nice for a pretty much stock car, you'll want more in no time.
Like me lol, 143rwkw and still want more...

**Stav** · 10-11-2006, 08:34 PM

Mate screw the dyno. All these killowatts are making me thirsty.
Get to the track again and shut a few gobs up. Fact is that while ai and it is seen as fudging the figures, dynos calculate a correction factor of 1 hp for every 10 degrees. It is the way theyre programmed.
A nice result not yet backed up with the right conditions to reflect the power increase.Get back out there when its freezing cold ..until then just enjoy your car.

Ive seen manual xr6's pull 137 rwkws when I got 131rwkws on the same day ,same dyno.He run a pb of 14.9 and I have managed a 14.7..single spinning as well. Looking at my example defies logic as we know it.Have fun mate ..enjoy the torque..

jcxr · 10-11-2006, 08:54 PM

Sunday was crap for numbers. 12.87 et early, 13.0 most other runs from a car that can run 12.55 on a cold night. O.K, this is from a carby car where temp is so critical but you get the picture. Heat/Humidity KILLS 1/4 mile times

ClassicAU · 10-11-2006, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

Mate screw the dyno. All these killowatts are making me thirsty.
Get to the track again and shut a few gobs up. Fact is that while ai and it is seen as fudging the figures, dynos calculate a correction factor of 1 hp for every 10 degrees. It is the way theyre programmed.
A nice result not yet backed up with the right conditions to reflect the power increase.Get back out there when its freezing cold ..until then just enjoy your car.

Ive seen manual xr6's pull 137 rwkws when I got 131rwkws on the same day ,same dyno.He run a pb of 14.9 and I have managed a 14.7..single spinning as well. Looking at my example defies logic as we know it.Have fun mate ..enjoy the torque..

Cheers useless, that sound about right to me! I would go tonight to Calder, but it’s too late and I don’t have a helmet. The torque is what I love, I was driving around a bit last night and it just feels awesome booting it in second at about 60-odd, very smooth.

Thanks to everyone for the encouragement, Next chance I get I will head back up to Heathcote, hopefully its not humid like it was last weekend and I can end this nonsense!!

AU2PWR · 11-11-2006, 10:37 AM

lol , who should i put my Money on Chris or Stiddy ??

lol , Im Backing the dude with the Ford lol

Cheers
Daniel

Christiaan · 11-11-2006, 01:42 PM

It's a common trick pulled by dyno operators to push the power figures up. The higher the intake temperature, the more correction (in favour) of power is made.

The intake temperature should be the same as the Ambient temperature. When we had our dyno day down at Dynomotive (fordmods) the intake temperature stick was flung off the side of the dyno machine, so the intake temperature read the same as the ambient temperature, meaning very accurate results.

I'm not sure exactly how much correction is made, but 14 degrees above ambient is alot in terms of intake temperature.

Cheers.

ClassicAU · 13-11-2006, 10:09 AM

Well, tricks or no tricks, like i said before i am happy with the new performance. Not that i think there was any tricks played, but thats not why i am bringing this up again. What i would like to know is, if anyone else with a fairly standard car has had an edit and noticed a chance in sound with the motor? I now sounds quite deeper at about 2500-3000 rpm upwards. Not that i am complaining!! Just that i dont quite understand where it came from? Chris mentioned it was induction noise, but it sounds too loud to just be air!

**Bluepower** · 15-11-2006, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiddy

Chris (I dont need a breath),

You didn’t really even try to explain why the IT was double the AT. Fair enough 8 degrees may not change the output reading much but why would the temperature be almost double in the intake than it is outside of it if the air is just rushing through. You may run a dyno all day and I certainly don’t but that doesn’t mean you can just ignore the question and simply state that you know better so don’t anyone ask. Basically what you are saying is that given 10rwkw is probably worth 3/10ths and that ClassicAU’s car was running another 3/10ths off it PB, the conditions on the day were about 6/10ths out of his favour. Given you said all the I6 guys were 2/10ths off, it still doesn’t add up to me.

I cant say I am convinced that the times and power on the graph match up and that conditions are purely to blame and I don’t think you’ve tried to even answer the original AT and IT question but if ClassicAU’s happy with it, and he seems to be, that’s all that really matters in the end. I’ll leave it alone now.

The IT will be high if the probe is left in the air intake (it is positioned right above the radiator).

For your benefit, I did recheck some of the dyno sheets and come up with a few 119's and 118's that actually had a much lower reading. I also had a play with the temp probe the other night, heating it up to 40 degrees and it didn't make a kilowatt more. I also then left it swinging in the breeze above the dyno, where it cooled right down to 16, and still no change.

The higher performance cars were about 4 tenths off, which meant lower speed cars more dependant on torque will be further off. If i said 2 tenths earlier, i take it back, more like at least 6 tenths. Cams290 wanted 11.6's, he got 12.0's, I wanted 11.4's, i got 11.8's. just a s h i t day.

If you want to give me a call on the office number stiddy, im more than happy to run through all the power readings and their corresponding IT and AT's with you, and you may be able to develop your own conclusion from there. Happy to help.