Regulated charge control

NZ XR6 · 24-11-2015, 04:52 PM

The Mondeo was no longer starting as well on cool mornings, so I decided to replace the battery before it decided to strand me somewhere.

What I thought would be a simple job became a half day drama, started because Century NZ list the wrong battery for the MB diesel. For future reference, it takes a DIN 74, not DIN 65. Then the guy in the battery shop destroyed the battery terminal on the -ve cable, which are unobtanium apparently. So be careful when you change your battery!

Anyway, I now have a new Century Ultra High Performance battery fitted.

And then we come to the subject of this thread, which is the regulated charge control (RCC) system fitted to Mondeos, and other Euro Fords, and the subsequent requirement for silver calcium batteries.

Basically, RCC is a system that charges the battery during engine operating modes when it is the most efficient to do so. It's really a bit like the way hybrids work, in that the battery is allowed to discharge say during stop start traffic, but then recharges during deceleration.

But in order for this to work, the battery must be capable of recharging more rapidly than a conventional battery. This is why the Mondeos are fitted with silver calcium batteries at the factory.

Century make batteries that support RCC, which are labelled as Smart Drive. These are made in Australia, but this range doesn't include the DIN 74.

I'm not quite sure where this leaves me. If anyone can add anything to this subject, please post!

Edit: The Bosch S5 range is a silver alloy product, but is not available in the DIN 74 size.

Deo · 24-11-2015, 06:50 PM

It leaves you in the same boat as me, and a bunch of other people.
My car was fitted with a new Century DIN75LMF when I got it 15 months ago and its going fine at the moment.
I enquired about silver cadmium but couldn't find any.

Sent from my GTi-9305 using bloody Tapatalk

ope126 · 24-11-2015, 06:51 PM

Although I no longer have the EcoBoost, the following thread I created a few years ago still has relevance; http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11406826

It also makes mention of the Ford Smart Charge System...

NZ XR6 · 24-11-2015, 07:19 PM

Thanks, it didn't seem to me that there were any silver calcium batteries in the correct size available in this part of the world. The reason from Century seems to be that they aren't suited to the high ambient temperatures in Australia. But Bosch sell them here, maybe their technology is better?

Then there's the whole size issue. Everyone lists a DIN65 as being suitable for diesel Mondeos, but they are clearly not a replacement for the factory fitted battery. In fact, Century seem to be the only supplier with an exact replacement.

I called the local Ford dealer and they sell the Century. Go figure.

NZ XR6 · 26-11-2015, 09:49 PM

I saw some evidence of the RCC working today. Stopped at traffic lights about 2 km from home after a cold start, and the fuel consumption was 0.7 l/100km. It's normally about 1.3.

Interesting, will keep observing.

rondeo · 29-11-2015, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

I saw some evidence of the RCC working today. Stopped at traffic lights about 2 km from home after a cold start, and the fuel consumption was 0.7 l/100km. It's normally about 1.3.

Interesting, will keep observing.

My 2011 MC 2.0 Diesel has always shown 0.7l/100km at idle with original battery. By the way, has anyone noticed the display changes from l/100km
to l/h?

ope126 · 29-11-2015, 03:33 PM

L/hr when at idle and L/100km whilst in motion.
Your 0.7L/hr must be with A/C off?
Mine is normally between 1.1L/hr- 1.3L/hr as A/C is never off!

Binny · 29-11-2015, 08:16 PM

Mine is usually 0.8-1.1 l/h with the aircon on. And this time of year it is always on.

FYI, it sits on 2.6 when you pull up and it's still doing a DPF clean. So if you pull up at the lights and it's idling rough as guts the instantaneous readout of circa 2.6 is a good way of confirming that's what's going on.

NZ XR6 · 29-11-2015, 10:28 PM

I wish it would ask before doing a DPF regen. I cannot believe how many times it's started one just as I'm coming off the motorway on my way home.

ope126 · 29-11-2015, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

I wish it would ask before doing a DPF regen. I cannot believe how many times it's started one just as I'm coming off the motorway on my way home.

I agree!!!

Binny · 30-11-2015, 08:42 PM

Yeah its a bit of a pain isn't it.
Did it to me last week with my brother in the car after picking him up from the airport. Pull up at the first lights off the motorway and it was shuddering and shaking. "Dude WTF is wrong with your car?"
To be honest though it doesn't happen much. Maybe once every 6 to 8 weeks. I have a 20km long motorway run each way every day so it gets plenty of opportunities.

NZ XR6 · 01-12-2015, 02:04 AM

Mine isn't too bad, it still idles OK but the engine sounds louder. But to be fair, I'm usually totally unaware when it's doing a regen.

rondeo · 17-02-2016, 05:51 PM

Will need a new battery shortly (down to 9.5v cranking) so spent the afternoon at various places selling batteries. Ford dealer was the cheapest (shock) with a Supercharge brand at $160. When asked about silver calcium, they appeared to be guessing. I don't blame them really. So to Googling and Foruming.

The 'facts' seem to be that Ford has set it's smart charging system to a specific voltage suiting silver calcium battery technology as mentioned previously in this thread. This voltage is a little higher, 14.8 for the silver calcium and 14.4 otherwise.

Then there's this:

http://www.yuasa.co.uk/info/technica...ium-batteries/

Anyway, I'm thinking Exide AG9 technology atm, and wondering why Ford hasn't specified such batteries in the owners service guide. Thanks to previous posters!

NZ XR6 · 17-02-2016, 09:23 PM

Not sure that Exide make an AG9 battery in the correct size for the Mondeo. The only sizes that will fit are a DIN65 or DIN74, and the only DIN74 battery I could find in NZ was the Century.

I think Ford are selling a DIN65 battery. It's probably OK unless you live somewhere cold, but has a much lower CCA than the DIN74.

NZ XR6 · 18-02-2016, 01:11 AM

Looks like Exide has moved away from silver - they are now using "Ap9", which is a tin alloy: http://www.exidebatteries.co.nz/company/brands

Century Yuasa in NZ still list a couple of silver calcium batteries but they are the wrong size. it also appears that Century and Exide have different ideas of what size a DIN66 should be!

Good luck, looks like silver calcium technology has been superceded.

rondeo · 18-02-2016, 01:20 PM

Thanks

The Exide battery size chart doesn't give a match, the Bosch S5 is silver calcium but hard to find in Albury and have some size variants unspecified on the web.

Existing battery is 310x175x175mm. MC 2.0 diesel.

Looks like Century DIN75LMF battery at $195. Not silver calcium though.

NZ XR6 · 18-02-2016, 04:00 PM

That's the battery that I bought. It was the only one in that size, otherwise there is more choice if you buy the shorter (petrol) battery.

rondeo · 04-03-2016, 09:59 AM

More on the Mondeo battery.

From the factory manual:

"Battery Monitoring Sensor reset
The Battery Monitoring Sensor also estimates losses in the battery capacity over time. The Battery Monitoring Sensor should be reset to factory default settings, when the battery is replaced.
It is urgently recommended that the replacement battery has the exact same specification as the original battery. If it does not, the accuracy of the Battery Monitoring Sensor outputs will be compromised.
The Battery Monitoring Sensor reset is part of the battery replacement procedure in IDS (Integrated Diagnostic System)."

So it is 'strongly urged' to use silver calcium battery.

On the other hand a mechanic with Ford tells me it's OK not to reset the sensor and Ford silver calcium batteries are not available.

My best guess is everything is fine with a standard battery, but emissions will go up by some unknown probably tiny amount.

commodorenutt · 04-03-2016, 01:57 PM

One of the problems with the newer charging methods are the higher voltages - as noted above, 14.8v compared to 14.4v maximum in the past.

Hyundai were one of the first to adopt the higher charge rate, which enabled lighter wiring to carry the same wattage - a net saving.

However, people were putting regular lead-acid batteries in as replacements, which couldn't handle the higher charging voltage, and would boil - with potentially explosive (hydrogen gas) results.

The Mondo is a pain when it comes to batteries - just helped my work mate diagnose issues he was having as low voltage probs. When the alternator was charging, it was all good. When it wasn't, he had no radio, no aircon, no radar cruise or lane change warning, and a raft of warning lights uin the cluster.

In the end he got the battery listed by supercheap as the ideal replacement (the DIN65) and found it couldn't be secured, so he had to take it back & get the DIN75 - the only one they had was $260

NZ XR6 · 04-03-2016, 08:35 PM

Yeah, it's a minefield. For a start, all of the battery manufacturers list a DIN65 for the diesel, which is too short and doesn't fit. The only one I could find in the right size was a Century.

Next problem is that none of the battery suppliers sell a silver calcium in that size, as this type of battery is being discontinued. The Century that I bought is a calcium calcium, whatever the hell that means.

Anyway, the new battery is good and I have no intention of visiting a Ford dealer to have anything reprogrammed.

rondeo · 06-03-2016, 12:27 PM

More gumf:

http://www.centurybatteries.com.au/p...ive-technology

ope126 · 06-03-2016, 03:50 PM

Here is an Australian made Calcium-Calcium Battery; http://www.superstart.com.au/Product...8/Default.aspx

This suits Diesel Mondeo's...

ope126 · 06-03-2016, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rondeo

More gumf:

http://www.centurybatteries.com.au/p...ive-technology

Funny that the reference to SmartDrive Technology is only available in the Ultra Hi Performance and Hi Performance range. Both don't offer a case size to fit a Diesel Mondeo...

ope126 · 06-03-2016, 04:10 PM

And if you are after quite possibly the best Silver Calcium battery available, look no further than the Varta F18 Silver Dynamic (85Ah 800A) Article No: 580 406 074 313 2 (Made in Germany) http://www.federalbatteries.com.au/f...AUTOMOTIVE.pdf

Big shout out to Bree & Janelle at Battery Hotline Archerfield QLD Battery Hotline | Batteries Online | Car Batteries | Marine Batteries

If you let them know you are a member of this Forum, they will give you a great price!

ope126 · 06-03-2016, 04:23 PM

Here is more info regarding Ford's Smart Charge System; http://www.petercoopercarrepairs.co....t_charging.htm
Once again it mentions to use a Silver Calcium Battery!

And from Valeo UK; http://www.valeoservice.com/data/mas...73.pdf?rnd=113

Also Ford call it "Smart Charge System" not Regulated Charge Control even though it is most likely the same thing...

rondeo · 06-03-2016, 06:39 PM

Thanks ope126. I didn't know varta batteries were available.

One wire to the alternator carries a current which is switched off or on to form a bi-directional code like morse code (PCM). The message sent one way is determined by an ecu which knows by means of the battery sensor on the negative terminal of the battery and various others what message is sent, in accordance with the Rules. The alternator can decode this message and controls its electric machinery to produce the required battery charging current. The alternator also sends messages back about its own state, all on the same wire. This is the LIN bus.

Ford ranger forumers evidently don't like the strategy, and want it turned off as it interferes with their camping. A friendly Ford mechanic tells me it's not an option on mondeo. If you go camping for three months and everyone wants to go, I reckon go for a solar panel.

Anyway, that's what half an hour of text editing came up with. Any bull**** will be pointed out hopefully.

Franco Cozzo · 07-03-2016, 10:04 AM

We've been fitting Century DIN75L MF batteries to diesel Mondeos without issue so far, they're not a silver calcium battery.

DIN65L MF is what the TDCI Focus has, which has the same engine as the diesel Mondeo but the battery tray is different, the DIN75L MF won't fit in a Focus.

NZ XR6 · 07-03-2016, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

We've been fitting Century DIN75L MF batteries to diesel Mondeos without issue so far, they're not a silver calcium battery.

DIN65L MF is what the TDCI Focus has, which has the same engine as the diesel Mondeo but the battery tray is different, the DIN75L MF won't fit in a Focus.

Yeah, that's what I bought. It's not what Century list for the Mondeo, so they sold a DIN65 but exchanged it for the 75 once I brought the old one in.

Does anyone know who is the OE supplier?

rondeo · 07-03-2016, 07:03 PM

Thanks Damo, I have a car with the usual battery and it works fine as you say, DIN75 LMF. I'm happy because the car goes without any problem.

What interests me is the detail. To me the question is just how is the situation is changed by using the 'wrong' battery.

Academic, but interesting.

Excuse me NZ I didn't see you.

ope126 · 07-03-2016, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

Yeah, that's what I bought. It's not what Century list for the Mondeo, so they sold a DIN65 but exchanged it for the 75 once I brought the old one in.

Does anyone know who is the OE supplier?

Not sure who the original batteries are made by, most likely Varta.

The original batteries (from the factory) are;
Ford Silver Calcium 80Ah 720Amps (CCA)
FINIS: 1682038 ETN: 580120072
L) 315mm W) 175mm H) 175mm

If you go to Ford Spare parts, they will most likely sell you a Motorcraft Battery. I have been told they can not get the Ford Silver Calcium Batteries...

This is the PDF I have had for years now, very good information regarding the Ford Silver Calcium and Motorcraft Calcium Plus Batteries; http://www.ford-focus-klub.com/downl...rd_aku_all.PDF