Australian fuel efficiency standards aimed at cutting petrol bills, 'catching up' with US

[kypez]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Aligns with Germany ending cash incentives for buyers of BEVs, so yeah there could be a lot more to this….

When the US dropped their subsidies, manufacturers dropped their price too. Manufacturers who came to market with a proper strategy and not being dependant on subsidies to make their cars affordable will be fine.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by kypez

When the US dropped their subsidies, manufacturers dropped their price too. Manufacturers who came to market with a proper strategy and not being dependant on subsidies to make their cars affordable will be fine.

The bigger issue is that buyers seem to be leaving the market for now but that may just be winter…

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

As said above, Germany ending cash incentives for buyers of BEVs, so yeah
there could be a lot more to this now that prices paid have increased.

There's been a shift too, US middle class consumer is showing resistance and EVs stacking up on the lots, we've got news like Polestar being valued at zero, for some reason channels like TFL are showing drawbacks like with their zero temperature tests, Ford, GM and VW are backpedalling to hybrid, masses of EVs in lots in China, Tesla is lowering prices, energy and rare earths miners are being keelhauled, it's a different mass-psychology at present.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Hemihunter

Germany - Compared to December 2023,

why do people keep comparing anything to December sales? It's never a typical month for anything.

Edit

EV sales were dropping in Germany for months before this

[kypez]

Originally Posted by simon varley

why do people keep comparing anything to December sales? It's never a typical month for anything.

It's convenient when you have an agenda

[Hemihunter]

its still a trend

[Hemihunter]

Volvo will suffer ... go woke go broke

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Hemihunter

Volvo will suffer ... go woke go broke

They won't. Polestar is redundant given they're using the same Volvo platforms. Polestar's problems aren't Volvo's

EX90 will do very well for them as well as the EX60.

[Sprintey]

Yeah I can't tell where this will end - will the legislative driven changeover occur and the technology future will continue to be inevitable, or will countries back down from globalisation into self interest and abandon the targets, using the sovereign energy they have domestically which for a lot of them is still oil and gas? Could all the negative press be opinion-influencing, or could it actually reflect the real-life reality many people are experiencing?

Fascinating times.

If you are concerned about the CO2, the sheer amount of new coal plants going in in the northern hemisphere will cook the goose anyway, it's an enormous amount of CO2, truly stupendous compared to historical amounts, enjoy each day you can.

[Hemihunter]

I think the comparison they are making is not about Dec figures alone, its how they relate to the rebates ending vs Sales for the same period and how the trend is leaning without an agenda.

[real time]

Originally Posted by Hemihunter

I think the comparison they are making is not about Dec figures alone, its how they relate to the rebates ending vs Sales for the same period and how the trend is leaning without an agenda.

Maybe ppl are starting to realise all that glitters is not gold

[Sprintey]

Harry's Garage - Harry breaks down why he has gone from EV to PHEV and back to diesel in co$$$t terms, and then takes a look at the market and depreciation over there at present:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZysvgm2_Aw

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Harry's Garage - Harry breaks down why he has gone from EV to PHEV and back to diesel in co$$$t terms, and then takes a look at the market and depreciation over there at present:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZysvgm2_Aw

Why do we keep quoting UK and US people for their questionable motivated videos to be some kind of gospel.

Literally everyone I know who has gone EV hasn't looked back. There will always be outliers and those looking for clicks.

If the video said why "I'm never going to back to a ICE" vs "why I'm ditching my EV", which would get more clicks?

That video was just an Ad for Range Rover.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by kypez

Why do we keep quoting UK and US people for their questionable motivated videos to be some kind of gospel.

Literally everyone I know who has gone EV hasn't looked back. There will always be outliers and those looking for clicks.

If the video said why "I'm never going to back to a ICE" vs "why I'm ditching my EV", which would get more clicks?

That video was just an Ad for Range Rover.

It actually included a discussion on how the EV market and used market is going there, tried to explain private buyer reluctance, noted the influence of depreciation and insurance on used prices, noted the view of the trade on used EVs - and then at the end posted suggestions on how to overcome this and increase EV takeup.

It concluded to do this similar efficiency standards would be needed as done before by legislation on diesel and petrol, these efficiency standards being standardised electricity consumption data (it noted Tesla as most efficient); and it pointed out legislation and business claims have led to the development of many expensive, performance EVs which are different to the simple, smaller and affordable a private used market wants - hence not many bids, hence horror depreciation.

One other good point was that in future, for the trade and wholesalers/used dealers to be happy to take EVs as stock, displaying their battery health using a standardised method, clearly on the vehicles at the yard will be a prerequisite to overcome used buyer reluctance.

There was a lot more to it than the new, diesel RRS.

[simon varley]

even when new, the calibration on the diesel terry was embarassing :(

I don't know if it was launched as Eu3 or 4, but regardless the internal requirement was for 'no visible smoke'

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by simon varley

even when new, the calibration on the diesel terry was embarassing :(

I don't know if it was launched as Eu3 or 4, but regardless the internal requirement was for 'no visible smoke'

Must have been Stevie Wonder who signed off on it then because those things chaff like nobodies business when you get on the throttle

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

So, you’re saying it vapes rather than smokes?

Its going to look like the 2019/2020 bushfires out the exhaust when I'm driving it, don't worry.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Must have been Stevie Wonder who signed off on it then because those things chaff like nobodies business when you get on the throttle



Its going to look like the 2019/2020 bushfires out the exhaust when I'm driving it, don't worry.

I call it my James Bond mode....means everyone stays back as normally I wouldn't be able to outrun them...

[ozpacman]

I'm just stockpilin' AUs!

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by ozpacman

I'm just stockpilin' AUs!

Have you got a thread about the Benz on here?

[ozpacman]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Have you got a thread about the Benz on here?

Well picked up CB! I don't have a thread on the Benz sorry. Bit of an interesting story behind this car. I bought this property in 2015 as a Deceased Estate. The old guy that had owned it had a used car yard in the nearby town and apparently used to buy a few cars through the auctions down south and sell them through his yard. He was a real wheeler dealer by all accounts! When he died, this car, which is a 1989 300SE, and a mid 70's 280 SLC were left in the shed, along with tons of old furniture, appliances and rubbish basically. The property was littered with all sorts of rubbish as well.

Anyway his poor widow was left to try and sort out all this stuff. Thankfully a local bloke who lived nearby (and who I've since become friends with) offered to give her a hand to sort the whole mess out prior to the sale of the property.

When he had it all done, the widow wanted to pay him but she was very low on funds and gave him the two Mercs as payment. When I was first inspecting the property to buy, my future mate came over to speak with me as he had the two Mercs, as well as a mini excavator and equipment on a plant trailer stored in the shed and wanted to know when I would need them moved. I told him not to worry as I wasn't in a position to move to the property for several years, and the cars and excavator were better off being stored out of the weather. I subsequently bought the mini excavator and equipment from him so that solved that particular storage issue.

Fast forward a couple of years and he decided to move the 280SLC to his place with a view to restoring it. I knew he was being very ambitious as the thing was rotten with rust and my mate doesn't really have the skills to tackle a project of that magnitude. He then told me he didn't have room for the 300SE, so would take it to the tip. I told him it was far too good to dump and he then asked me if I wanted it! I've never been a Euro car man, but this thing is as straight as a die with not a speck of rust in it anywhere. I couldn't bear the thought of this car going into land fill so yeah, there it sits!

I did have a crack at getting it running once but in fairness it was a bit of a half hearted effort. It winds over and will run briefly if you dribble a bit of fuel down the fuel plenum/distributor, so I suspect it may need a new fuel pump and filter and clean out of the fuel tank.

Or alternately - maybe an Intech and a BTR!

[Romulus]

Hertz dumping 20k of Tesla vehicles due to unreliability, poor range and servicing costs send a clear signal EV’s are toys, like Lego.

It’s not an individual YouTuber saying they’ve dumped their EV and aren’t going back, it’s an international car hire company saying EV’s aren’t good for their business.

One of the worlds arguably largest vehicle manufacturers, Toyota, has stated EV’s won’t ever exceed 30% of all passenger vehicles, they’re confident ICE and hydrogen will play a big part in future powertrains.

I had a look at the new BMW I5. I think it’s the worst 5 Series BMW have ever made. When asked if I would consider buying one, I told the salesman to keep an eye out for a low K F90 LCI M5 Competition. There’s no way I’d buy an electric BMW.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Hertz dumping 20k of Tesla vehicles due to unreliability, poor range and servicing costs send a clear signal EV’s are toys, like Lego.

It’s not an individual YouTuber saying they’ve dumped their EV and aren’t going back, it’s an international car hire company saying EV’s aren’t good for their business.

One of the worlds arguably largest vehicle manufacturers, Toyota, has stated EV’s won’t ever exceed 30% of all passenger vehicles, they’re confident ICE and hydrogen will play a big part in future powertrains.

I had a look at the new BMW I5. I think it’s the worst 5 Series BMW have ever made. When asked if I would consider buying one, I told the salesman to keep an eye out for a low K F90 LCI M5 Competition. There’s no way I’d buy an electric BMW.

It's a shame people don't understand why they're dumping them and make up stuff. There are no servicing on Teslas.

The problem is the prices dropped by Tesla are hurting their resale which Hertz and co are worried about.

But you've shown time and again very poor understanding and a clear bias against EVs.

I will agree with you though that BMW EVs are garbage as they stand.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by kypez

It's a shame people don't understand why they're dumping them and make up stuff. There are no servicing on Teslas.

The problem is the prices dropped by Tesla are hurting their resale which Hertz and co are worried about.

But you've shown time and again very poor understanding and a clear bias against EVs.

I will agree with you though that BMW EVs are garbage as they stand.

I think that should have been repair costs and not servicing.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I think that should have been repair costs and not servicing.

That's the thing, repair costs aren't anymore than usual. Heck, a Subaru windscreen will make a grown man cry when you see the replacement cost! Model 3 and Y are steel as well not aluminium.

Honestly, it's that Tesla keeps dropping their prices. They actually reduce prices as components become cheaper unlike traditional manufacturers. Heck, most are increasing pricing which is great for resale value. Problem is that the Hertz business model is designed with the legacy pricing structure.

The market doesn't understand how to work with a company that is actually doing things differently.

[whynot]

Perhaps reading the Hertz's filing with the SEC might help.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...z-20240111.htm

Item 2.02 Results of Operations and Financial Condition

Hertz Global Holdings, Inc. (the “Company” or “Hertz”) has made the strategic decision to sell approximately 20,000 electric vehicles (“EVs”) from its U.S. fleet, or about one-third of the global EV fleet. These vehicle dispositions, which were initiated in December 2023 and are expected to take place in an orderly fashion over the course of 2024, will cover multiple makes and models. EVs held for sale will remain eligible for rental within the Company’s fleet during the sales process. The Company expects to reinvest a portion of the proceeds from the sale of EVs into the purchase of internal combustion engine (“ICE”) vehicles to meet customer demand.

The Company’s decision to reduce its EV fleet will result in the recognition, during the fourth quarter of 2023, of approximately $245 million of incremental net depreciation expense related to the sale. This non-cash charge represents the write down of the EVs’ carrying values as of December 31, 2023 to their fair values, less related expenses associated with the disposition of the vehicles. This charge is in addition to the depreciation expense that the Company will report for the fourth quarter in the ordinary course with respect to the remainder of its fleet. Future depreciation expense on the specific vehicles held for sale is expected to be limited to impacts from changes in the vehicles’ condition and general market factors. Any gain or loss associated with the ultimate disposition of any specific EV will be recognized in the period of sale. The Company does not expect this EV fleet reduction and the corresponding addition of ICE vehicles to have a material impact on its asset-backed securitization facilities, nor does it anticipate the need to make additional cash contributions to such facilities as a result of this strategic action. 

The Company expects this action to better balance supply against expected demand of EVs. This will position the Company to eliminate a disproportionate number of lower margin rentals and reduce damage expense associated with EVs. The Company will continue to execute its strategy around EV mobility and offer customers a wide selection of vehicles. The Company continues to implement a series of initiatives that it anticipates will continue to improve the profitability of the remaining EV fleet. These initiatives include the expansion of EV charging infrastructure, growing relationships with EV manufacturers, particularly related to more affordable access to parts and labor, and continued implementation of policies and educational tools to help enhance the EV experience for customers. Going forward, the Company will continue to actively manage the total size of its EV fleet, as well as the allocation of EVs among customer segments, including leisure, corporate, government and rideshare.

It is expected that the planned reduction in the EV fleet and reinvestment in additional ICE vehicles will improve Adjusted Corporate EBITDA across 2024, as vehicles are rotated, and in 2025, by which time all of the vehicles included in this plan are expected to be sold. By year end 2025, it is expected that the aggregate two-year benefit to Adjusted Corporate EBITDA related to the sale will approximate the incremental net depreciation expense to be recognized in the fourth quarter of 2023. It is expected that this benefit to the Company’s financial results will be derived from higher revenue per day and lower depreciation and operating expenses related to its remaining fleet. The Company further anticipates that incremental free cash flow generation related to this action will approximate $250 million to $300 million in the aggregate over 2024 and 2025.

The Company expects to report financial results for the fourth quarter ended December 31, 2023 on February 6, 2024. Consistent with expectations, the Company expects to report revenue for the fourth quarter of 2023 in the range of $2.1 billion to $2.2 billion, in line with historical seasonality relative to its third quarter. Adjusted Corporate EBITDA for the fourth quarter of 2023 will be negatively impacted by the incremental net depreciation expense associated with the EV sales plan, and further burdened by higher depreciation expense in the ordinary course as residual values for vehicles generally fell throughout the quarter greater than previously expected. While direct operating expenses per transaction day, excluding collision and damage, will be flat for the quarter and down for the year, expenses related to collision and damage, primarily associated with EVs, remained high in the quarter, thereby supporting the Company’s decision to initiate the material reduction in the EV fleet. The Company expects to report a negative Adjusted Corporate EBITDA (excluding the impact of the non-cash charge related to the EV sales plan) for the fourth quarter in the range of ($120 million) to ($130 million).

The Company’s estimated results for the fourth quarter ended December 31, 2023, are preliminary in nature and subject to change as results for such period are finalized. Estimates of results are inherently uncertain and subject to change, and the Company undertakes no obligation to update the estimated results. The Company’s estimates contained in this Current Report on Form 8-K may differ, perhaps materially, from actual results. Hertz is in the process of finalizing its fourth quarter 2023 financial statements and will discuss actual performance and more details in its regularly scheduled earnings release and conference call, which are planned for February 6, 2024.

The Company cannot, without unreasonable effort, reconcile its forecasted range of Adjusted Corporate EBITDA, a non-GAAP financial measure, to its most directly comparable GAAP financial measure, net income (loss) attributable to the Company, due to the uncertainty and inherent difficulty of predicting the occurrence and the financial impact of items impacting comparability as of the date of this Current Report on Form 8-K. Management uses Adjusted Corporate EBITDA as an operating performance metric for internal monitoring and planning purposes, including the preparation of the Company's annual operating budget and monthly operating reviews, and analysis of investment decisions, profitability and performance trends. This measure enables management and investors to isolate the effects on profitability of operating metrics most meaningful to the business of renting and leasing vehicles. It also allows management and investors to assess the performance of the entire business on the same basis as its reportable segments.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by whynot

Perhaps reading the Hertz's filing with the SEC might help.



https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...z-20240111.htm

Devil is in the detail. The cost itself isn't much higher but the lack of spares readily available might see cars off the road for a period of time that adds to the "repair cost".

[bfets]

https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-...petrol-diesel/

[kypez]

Originally Posted by bfets

https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-...petrol-diesel/

Love when an Australian publication tries to push "Facts" based on other countries and making claims based on "Research companies" like we used to see that said Smoking was good for health.

Funnier is people just don't apply any commonsense to what they're reading.

No **** a Tesla is going to cost more than a corolla to fix. But like for like, the costs are comparable if not a little in favour of Teslas for certain items.

[bfets]

Originally Posted by kypez

Love when an Australian publication tries to push "Facts" based on other countries and making claims based on "Research companies" like we used to see that said Smoking was good for health.

Funnier is people just don't apply any commonsense to what they're reading.

No **** a Tesla is going to cost more than a corolla to fix. But like for like, the costs are comparable if not a little in favour of Teslas for certain items.

Did you even read the damn article? It literally touches on what you are trying to prove. The average for other EV's (non Teslas) are only 5% more than ICE cars. They explain why a Tesla is expensive to repair. Because like you say it is way more complex than a Corolla, or most other cars for that matter.

Are Tesla's the most expensive? No!
"While the average cost to repair a Tesla is high, Mr Mandell said electric models from niche car-makers such as Rivian, Lucid and Polestar can exceed $US8000 ($AU15,400)."

This reminds me why I don't tend to comment on these types of conversations. It's like having a debate about religion, or politics. People are way too invested in proving themselves right instead of seeing middle ground and that the truth can be a sea of grey. This is true for both sides of the EVs are awesome and EV's are evil arguments.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by bfets

Did you even read the damn article? It literally touches on what you are trying to prove. The average for other EV's (non Teslas) are only 5% more than ICE cars. They explain why a Tesla is expensive to repair. Because like you say it is way more complex than a Corolla, or most other cars for that matter.

Are Tesla's the most expensive? No!
"While the average cost to repair a Tesla is high, Mr Mandell said electric models from niche car-makers such as Rivian, Lucid and Polestar can exceed $US8000 ($AU15,400)."

This reminds me why I don't tend to comment on these types of conversations. It's like having a debate about religion, or politics. People are way too invested in proving themselves right instead of seeing middle ground and that the truth can be a sea of grey. This is true for both sides of the EVs are awesome and EV's are evil arguments.

Yes, I read it and typical click bait exists with the UK battery story.

Again, no commonsense. Most other EV vehicles are based on ICE platforms. Naturally spares will be interchangeable and easily available. Other EVs are also significantly cheaper than Teslas and the US has a plethora of EVs offered less than a Tesla with cheap repair bills outside of the exohtics of Lucid,etc.

None of these create any useful information at all. What did we learn from the article? Petrol/diesel is not a classification of a car. More expensive EVs cost more to repair. Author couldn't help avoid the click baiting by segmenting cars based on their Market segmentation (e.g. Tesla 3, BMW 3 Series, Merc C class).

Has nothing to do with religion or politics. Just junk articles being pushed.

RIP commonsense.