LZ Focus (Thai Models)

[to4garret]

I went to the dealer and we started up a demo LZ Focus and it did the same thing, but not as rough so it must be normal'ish.

The Service manager mentioned its likely to do with the EURO 6 emissions and needed to heat the CAT up quickly.

Which could explain the difference compared to the Fiesta ST as it is EURO 5 compliant, not 6.

Anyhow, happy that it seems to be nothing sinister.

[CatonaPC©]

Originally Posted by to4garret

The Service manager mentioned its likely to do with the EURO 6 emissions and needed to heat the CAT up quickly.

The brochure on this car states Euro Stage 5. In Australia, Stage 6 Euro emissions don't need to take effect until April/July 2017. For that matter, Stage 5 isn't mandated until November 2016.

So, I am not sure what your service manager has stated is correct or not.

[to4garret]

Originally Posted by CatonaPC©

So, I am not sure what your service manager has stated is correct or not.

Quite possible he was confused. He did think the Fiesta ST was a 2.0l and didnt know it was an EcoBoost engine.

[to4garret]

Actually, its more probable im confused, the LZ Focus is Euro 5 and the Fiesta ST is Euro 4. Thanks for pointing that out CatonaPC.

[GTLEGEND]

Although the mandate is not till later, the vehicles meet that emmision standard already..

[CatonaPC©]

Originally Posted by GTLEGEND

Although the mandate is not till later, the vehicles meet that emmision standard already..

Obviously any new car sold now will likely comply with Euro 5 at the very least. From November this year, I would not be surprised if we start seeing Euro Stage 6 compliant cars being sold.

We are really lagging in Australia. Euro 6 has been in effect since 2014 in Europe and the US have tougher emission laws than Euro 6. So, it's surprising a new model like the Focus is being sold here with a redundant emissions standard. Doesn't say much about the authorities here to allow such a lag in standards.

[NormM67]

I checked mine this morning on startup and it was pretty smooth, just sat around the 1250 RPM mark for a minute before dropping down to around 1000 RPM.

My car is a manual so I wonder if autos behave differently?

[4cyl_Turbo]

Originally Posted by CatonaPC©

We are really lagging in Australia. Euro 6 has been in effect since 2014 in Europe and the US have tougher emission laws than Euro 6.

Do you think it maybe related to the number of vehicles on the road in those countries/regions?

The U.S. has >220,000,000 registered cars and I expect Europe to have similar numbers. Australia wouldn't have 10% of those numbers.

China is the country that is hopefully aiming at tougher emission laws.
China may have by now passed the U.S. with the most registered cars, two years ago they were around 160,000,000 cars and 90,000,000 heavy vehicles.

[CatonaPC©]

Originally Posted by 4cyl_Turbo

Do you think it maybe related to the number of vehicles on the road in those countries/regions?

I honestly don't know. My thinking if they're building Stage 6 engines for Europe now, why not be consistent across the board and put Stage 6 in Thai built cars?

My only theory may be that it's due to Australia still selling 91RON petrol which I am informed contains a higher sulfer content that 95RON. It's possible that when Euro Stage 6 emission cars do come here, owners will need to run them on 95RON minimum. But I'm just speculating.

[Muttley098]

Originally Posted by NormM67

I checked mine this morning on startup and it was pretty smooth, just sat around the 1250 RPM mark for a minute before dropping down to around 1000 RPM.



My car is a manual so I wonder if autos behave differently?

My auto idles the same as you describe. Never had any inconsistency.

My previous LW2 auto had an inconsistent idle and also when running it sometimes didn't hold steady revs and could see the rev needle bobbling around while driving. Dealer never found anything wrong with it. It was much smoother if I paused for a few seconds between putting ignition key to on before cranking the engine over, perhaps this allowed the fuel pump to charge the system before needing to inject fuel. My standard procedure when starting became key in, turn to on, put on seatbelt while hearing fuel pump spin up, then start engine.

Could low initial fuel pressure when starting be behind the rough idle for some cars? Or alternatively too rich? Obviously with a start button you don't get an option to treat it the way I described. I haven't checked if

Originally Posted by NormM67

I checked mine this morning on startup and it was pretty smooth, just sat around the 1250 RPM mark for a minute before dropping down to around 1000 RPM.



My car is a manual so I wonder if autos behave differently?

My auto idles the same as you describe. Never had any inconsistency.

My previous LW2 auto had an inconsistent idle and also when running it sometimes didn't hold steady revs and could see the rev needle bobbling around while driving. Dealer never found anything wrong with it. It was smoother if I paused between putting ignition key to on before cranking the engine over, perhaps this allowed the fuel pump to charge the system before needing to inject fuel. My standard starting routine became key to on, put on seatbelt while the fuel pump primed, then start engine.

Could that be behind the initial rough idle on some cars? With a start button on the LZ I'm not sure how that can be tested.



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[Muttley098]

Oops, must have hit paste to create the double post...


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[Focii]

I actually observed mine on cold start today and does the exact same thing as everyone else is describing (the revs Bob up and down a little).

I'd say it's perfectly normal ... unless, like some you're getting shuddering that protrudes into the cabin.

Got my windows tinted this week, so if I remember over the weekend I'll post some pics.

[Focii]

So I remembered to take some photos of the car after getting the tint done. I got Octane from Tint a Car which is darkest legal. IMHO it looks pretty good.

[csfulton]

Originally Posted by Focii

So I remembered to take some photos of the car after getting the tint done. I got Octane from Tint a Car which is darkest legal. IMHO it looks pretty good.

A very sexy Car.

3,000 KM service was done last week. (Didn't take long to clock up those K's :|). Service went all good.

My Auto Start Stop was no longer functioning again. I didn't try to fix it this time, just left the battery connected so that they can see the issue first hand. They saw the issue and stated "There is no reason for it not to be working. The computer says nothing is wrong. I could not get it to work." They ran out of time for the day and want to spend time on it, so booked it for another time. Hopefully its not a major issue.

Still an amazing car!

[KosCo]

How are the owners finding the Sync 2 going in this model?

[sparkle6856]

Originally Posted by KosCo

How are the owners finding the Sync 2 going in this model?

I am finding the sync 2 to be a huge improvement. My phone connects immediately (which used to take til I was halfway to my destination in my lw) and the voice recognition works very well.

[Focii]

Originally Posted by KosCo

How are the owners finding the Sync 2 going in this model?

Apart from a slight glitch a few people around here have experienced with a crazy loud static noise randomly coming on (it's only happened once for me), it's awesome.

You'll probably read a lot of reviews online about it being slow and unresponsive, but I've got to say, I've not had any issues with its responsiveness, and I find it really easy to use.

I think we were lucky in that we got Sync 2 a couple of years after it came it in the US, so a lot of the bugs were ironed out.

Voice control is mostly awesome (you do have to learn certain commands). I love how much information is displayed on each quadrant.

Put this way, my Dad was driving my car the other day and said Sync 2 is way better than the MMI system on his Audi A3. He bloody hates MMI (mostly because of the rubbish Sat Nav).

[KosCo]

Originally Posted by Focii

Apart from a slight glitch a few people around here have experienced with a crazy loud static noise randomly coming on (it's only happened once for me), it's awesome.

You'll probably read a lot of reviews online about it being slow and unresponsive, but I've got to say, I've not had any issues with its responsiveness, and I find it really easy to use.

I think we were lucky in that we got Sync 2 a couple of years after it came it in the US, so a lot of the bugs were ironed out.

Voice control is mostly awesome (you do have to learn certain commands). I love how much information is displayed on each quadrant.

Put this way, my Dad was driving my car the other day and said Sync 2 is way better than the MMI system on his Audi A3. He bloody hates MMI (mostly because of the rubbish Sat Nav).

Thanks for the info there. We may be looking at a new LZ Titanium later in the year so am interested in many of the comments here. The SYNC 2 is a major feature of the car and especially how the turbochared engine and gearbox are going.

[GTLEGEND]

Originally Posted by csfulton

A very sexy Car.

3,000 KM service was done last week. (Didn't take long to clock up those K's :|). Service went all good.

My Auto Start Stop was no longer functioning again. I didn't try to fix it this time, just left the battery connected so that they can see the issue first hand. They saw the issue and stated "There is no reason for it not to be working. The computer says nothing is wrong. I could not get it to work." They ran out of time for the day and want to spend time on it, so booked it for another time. Hopefully its not a major issue.

Still an amazing car!

Check your owners manual, the start stop function needs to see a lot of things before it will work. To name a few, if the battery is below 75% charge, there is a big difference in ambiente to interior temp with ac just to name a few the system will not allow the start stop function to work so the engine can still charge the battery and keep your electrical items like radio and lights working and so it does not get too hot inside the car. There are heaps of things the PCM needs to see before the function works. I am sure it is describved in the OM..

[csfulton]

Originally Posted by GTLEGEND

Check your owners manual, the start stop function needs to see a lot of things before it will work. To name a few, if the battery is below 75% charge, there is a big difference in ambiente to interior temp with ac just to name a few the system will not allow the start stop function to work so the engine can still charge the battery and keep your electrical items like radio and lights working and so it does not get too hot inside the car. There are heaps of things the PCM needs to see before the function works. I am sure it is describved in the OM..

I know and understand that. The issue is that it is not functioning. The symbol appears, car is in neutral and foot is off the clutch, the Engine keeps running.

I know that I can open the bonnet right now, and disconnect the battery for 10 mins, reconnect the battery, drive it again in the same conditions and it will be 100% back to normal turning off the car engine at almost every intersection. This is what happened last time.

Like how you expect the car to turn off when you turn the ignition. Taking the foot off the clutch doesn't turn off the car. Its noticeable after driving for half an hour and its not turning off at all or ever since it first did not turn off.

Ok maybe there a reason behind it, but in previous similar conditions it would normally turn off it is not. Maybe I am completely wrong about this, but the manual also states "Note: If the system detects a malfunction, it turns off. If it remains inactive after an ignition cycle, have your vehicle checked by an authorized dealer"

I took it back to the dealer and I was told "I cannot get it to work. I checked with the computer and it said there was no faults or reason for the car to not turn off." It would be odd for a Ford mechanic to ask me to come back with the car just to spend more time the Auto Start Stop if it was in a normal state. The mechanic even understood that disconnecting the battery would solve it and was not an acceptable solution to this problem.

[CatonaPC©]

Originally Posted by csfulton

The symbol appears

By 'symbol' you mean a crossed out A in a circle?

If so, then stop/start is unavailable while this symbol is showing. As GTLEGEND pointed out there are a myriad of circumstances that would make it unavailable.

Certainly if it continues, then you should take it back to the dealer.

Despite what anyone else says, I would never recommend disconnecting/reconnecting the battery on these cars that are heavily reliant on electronics, to 'fix' an issue.

I would give it a week and go back to the dealer and get them to sort it out.

[Top_Ghia]

Originally Posted by csfulton

I know and understand that. The issue is that it is not functioning. The symbol appears, car is in neutral and foot is off the clutch, the Engine keeps running.



I know that I can open the bonnet right now, and disconnect the battery for 10 mins, reconnect the battery, drive it again in the same conditions and it will be 100% back to normal turning off the car engine at almost every intersection. This is what happened last time.



Like how you expect the car to turn off when you turn the ignition. Taking the foot off the clutch doesn't turn off the car. Its noticeable after driving for half an hour and its not turning off at all or ever since it first did not turn off.



Ok maybe there a reason behind it, but in previous similar conditions it would normally turn off it is not. Maybe I am completely wrong about this, but the manual also states "Note: If the system detects a malfunction, it turns off. If it remains inactive after an ignition cycle, have your vehicle checked by an authorized dealer"



I took it back to the dealer and I was told "I cannot get it to work. I checked with the computer and it said there was no faults or reason for the car to not turn off." It would be odd for a Ford mechanic to ask me to come back with the car just to spend more time the Auto Start Stop if it was in a normal state. The mechanic even understood that disconnecting the battery would solve it and was not an acceptable solution to this problem.

So what's your beef? Did disconnecting the battery fix it permanently?
Why would it be unusual for a mechanic to ask for more time if they don't know what's wrong?

[Top_Ghia]

Originally Posted by CatonaPC©

Despite what anyone else says, I would never recommend disconnecting/reconnecting the battery on these cars that are heavily reliant on electronics, to 'fix' an issue.

Why not?
What's the first thing that every single IT professional does to fix a computer problem? He turns it off and re-boots it. Cars are the same. They are now just mobile computers and sometimes they get glitches. Disconnecting the battery can reset a lot of modules and clear any glitches in the system. Not always and of course if your symptoms persist see your health care professional.

[CatonaPC©]

Originally Posted by Top_Ghia

Why not?
What's the first thing that every single IT professional does to fix a computer problem? He turns it off and re-boots it. Cars are the same.

We are talking about a new car here. I think disconnecting battery to fix a glitch is a rather inelegant solution in this case, when instead, it should be dealt by a dealer mechanic in the first place. Let's keep in mind the warranty as well.

I recognise you have a problem and you are trying to resolve the issue through your dealer. This is the best and safest course of action. Disconnecting and reconnecting the battery may inadvertently cause other problems that may not be immediately apparent and, as any IT pro knows, even reboots don't solve all problems.

[csfulton]

Originally Posted by CatonaPC©

Let's keep in mind the warranty as well.

Yes, since it's under warranty the problem that I am having with the car should be resolved without requiring me to disconnect the battery.

Disconnecting and reconnecting the battery may inadvertently cause other problems that may not be immediately apparent and, as any IT pro knows, even reboots don't solve all problems.

Actually. Disconnecting the battery did resolve the issues and I didn't notice any problems caused by it. Except this was not permanent and the issue came back, it lasted sometime before it did recur.

IT people will ask you to restart the PC because of the huge complexity of computers and finding a fix for software that they do not have control over is not easy. Good IT support will spend time on finding a solution to the problem and if unable to resolve will report it to the required people to fix in their software.

Me going to my Ford dealer means that they can use the tools provided to them to test and find the issue, where they can actually see if the battery is low, the temp is too hot/cold, or whatever the issue may be.

The Ford mechanic said that he could not see a reason for it not to enable. Which inevitably means that there is a problem with the Car somewhere that is not clear and it is forcing the Auto Start Stop not to enable. He checked the car computer and found no issues.

[GTLEGEND]

Brief Overview and conditions of the auto start stop feature. Do you have any of the below check list that prevents the system from working on?

Auto Start Stop
The auto start stop system helps reduce fuel consumption and decrease emissions by automatically shutting down the engine when the vehicle stops and the engine is idling, usually within 1500 ms (1.5 seconds). To initiate the auto start stop operation, the vehicle gear selector must be in DRIVE when the vehicle comes to a stop and the brake pedal must be fully applied. The engine automatically restarts when the brake pedal is released, usually within 200 ms (0.5 seconds), or when a vehicle system requires a restart, for example to recharge the battery or to maintain interior comfort settings.
The auto start stop system is defaulted to an ON state when the engine is started. To switch the auto start stop system OFF, press the auto start stop switch located on the center console. To turn the auto start stop system ON, press the auto start stop switch again. The auto start stop system can only be deactivated during the current ignition cycle.
The instrument panel cluster (IPC) auto start stop indicator illuminates when an auto start stop system inhibit or disable condition is present.
During normal operation the auto start stop system may not stop the engine under the following conditions:

• The A/C, heat or defrost settings are ON
• The rear defroster is ON
• The battery has a low state of charge or is below 5°C (41°F) or above 60°C (140°F)
• The maximum engine off time is exceeded
• The engine operating temperature is less than 60°C (140°F)
• The gear selector is in the PARK, REVERSE, NEUTRAL or SECOND GEAR position
• The steering wheel is turned rapidly or is at a sharp angle
• Initial vehicle speed of greater than 4 km/h (2.5 MPH) and less than 2 seconds has elapsed
• The vehicle is on a steep road grade
• Elevation is above 10,000 feet (3,048 meters) approximately

Any of the following conditions may result in an automatic restart of the engine:

• The blower fan speed is increased or the climate control temperature is changed
• An electrical accessory is turned ON or plugged in
• Incorrect brake vacuum
• The auto start stop switch is pressed to disable the system while the engine is stopped

[Focii]

Originally Posted by GTLEGEND

Brief Overview and conditions of the auto start stop feature. Do you have any of the below check list that prevents the system from working on?

I think it's fairly safe to say that, yes, there are things that prevent the 'auto stop-start' from operating.

In saying that, the issue that csfulton experiences seems to be an exception to the experiences we're all experiencing here. We can probably assume that everyone's car has identical perimeters (with the exception of Auto vs. Manual), software and hardware. Considering this, it is strange that csfulton's Focus goes into a state where it no longer ever 'Stop Starts'. No one else has reported this.

@csfulton out of interest you mention that the stop-start 'symbol' appears, but the engine does not shut off. Do you mean the green A with the circle shaped arrow?

[4cyl_Turbo]

Originally Posted by GTLEGEND

Brief Overview and conditions of the auto start stop feature. Do you have any of the below check list that prevents the system from working on?

Listing all the potential parameters that could cause the issue, although useful, probably isn't helping. Csfulton hasn't always had the issue, so knows when it used to operate 'correctly'. Csfulton has also reset it once and it worked normally again for a while after that.

When driving the same route, at the same time, in same conditions to work each day, you get to know when stop/start is normally available. It is quite obvious when it behaves differently.

Getting Ford onto the job is the best starting point.
Ask for a Focus loan car and then csfulton can directly compare the two cars.

I expect Ford to hand it back, saying they can't find anything wrong.
If no fault codes are set, then there are just too many potential things to check/try. Not cost effective for local dealers time.

Ask them to fit a battery isolation switch and provide a letter stating that disconnecting the battery won't cause any issues and that they will accept any issues if they occur by using the isolator to reset the start/stop system. They might suddenly be prepared to spend more time fault finding it then.

[csfulton]

Originally Posted by GTLEGEND

[*]The battery has a low state of charge or is below 5°C (41°F) or above 60°C (140°F)

GTLEGEND, You were correct.

I started testing the battery and found that the voltage was indeed very low while the car was off for a while. Going as low as 12.30 V. Now there is only one thing that is discharging the battery while stopped and thats the Dash Camera.

So I set the camera to turn off when the car is off, and went on an hour and a half drive. Parked the car off for half an hour, the battery was much better at 12.65 V. So I started the car and did a short drive around the block to see if the car engine will turn off when stopped. No luck.

I left the camera off for the whole night, and the next morning on the way to work it worked at the first intersection. It does seem to be the camera is draining the battery. Looks like I need to find a solution to charge it while stationary.

I set the camera back to on when the car is off, and the car is still working. Turning off at lights after a week.

[NormM67]

Originally Posted by CatonaPC©

We are talking about a new car here. I think disconnecting battery to fix a glitch is a rather inelegant solution in this case, when instead, it should be dealt by a dealer mechanic in the first place. Let's keep in mind the warranty as well.

I see no problems whatsoever in doing this. Why waste a day (or hours) at a dealer having them look at something you can fix yourself. They'd probably yank the battery themselves if some system needed a reset.

As for warranty, no way they could use disconnecting the battery as an excuse. I think your being extremely paranoid in this regard.