motor PCOTY - a joke?

XplosiveR6 · 09-02-2005, 12:48 PM

the only ford in pcoty was the GTP and came a sorry 14th out of 19, there where 3 holdens the HSV clubsport R8, which came 5th overall, a Monaro CV8 -8th, and the monaro GTO, which came 18th. both the typhoon and SS DNF, the typhoon, because of the clutch problems and the SS because of the crap brakes.

overall winner was the Porsche Carrera S

1 porsche Carrera S
2 Lancer EVo 8
3 WRX STI
4 Mercedes C55 AMG
5 Clubsport R8
6 Renault sport Clio cup
7 Honda Integra Type S
8 Monaro CV8
9 Mercedes SLK350
10 VW Golf R32
11 Lotus Exige
12 Mercedes CL65 AMG
13 Renault sport Megane
14 FPV Falcon GT-P
15 Audi TT
16 Mazda MX5
17 Mini Cooper S
18 HSV GTO
19 MG Zt 260

ill let you guys say what you think

Homer1 · 09-02-2005, 12:59 PM

PCOTY seems limited as it only considers Hi-Po cars, thus the results always seem repetative (this must be the nth time Porsche has won). Surprised the CL65 finished so low with 450kW and 1000Nm, but great that the C55 came 4th (I'm a Merc fan as well as Ford). Not too surprised abut the GTP. As much as we love a support Fords we must not forget reality, and reality is that the FPV cars performance wise are just not up to scratch being limited by weight and engine characteristics. I boldly predict the upcoming BMW M5 to win next year going bu the current trend of PCOTY results.

Dave_au · 09-02-2005, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homer1

PCOTY seems limited as it only considers Hi-Po cars, thus the results always seem repetative

What about the Nissan 200sx/Silvia win a few years ago?

Maybe it is right, maybe the Fords and Holdens were just not as good as what they should have been this year.

BlueRaven · 09-02-2005, 01:07 PM

You also have to remember that the Typhoon was excluded due to the clutch problems they had with it..

09-02-2005, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueRaven

You also have to remember that the Typhoon was excluded due to the clutch problems they had with it..

Yep, he said that in the first post...

b2tf · 09-02-2005, 01:28 PM

I hate MOTOR, their stuff is a load of crap. Would much prefer Wheels, someone with a bit more credibility.

SSbaby · 09-02-2005, 01:40 PM

The conditions were hot. The HSV GTO was only good for

0-100km/h: 6.23s
0-400m: 14.29s (166.5km/h)
0-1000m: 25.95s (218.1km/h)

The same car ran 4.99s (0-100km/h) and 13.01s (0-400m) only a week earlier!

BTW, driver happened to be Warren Luff.

BlueRaven · 09-02-2005, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hambo_12

Yep, he said that in the first post...

Ahhhh... right you are! I didn't see that before..

Still, I think it comes down to power to weight really. If they dropped about 700kilos in the BA (teheheheh), it would get a far greater result!

09-02-2005, 01:26 PM

But have a think about the exclusions. I have no issue with the Typhoon being excluded. Too fair I reckon. If it dies, kill it off.

But for years Holden/HSV have been blowing power steering pumps and seals but this year they fit a cooler and all that happens is the car pumps boiled fluid all over the engine bay and the road. Yet they don't get thrown out? Come on. Not a Holden thing, just plain common sense.

In my opinion, and to be fair I'm glad the VZ R8 did as well as it did for our Aussie V8 image, the cars that pumped power steering oil all over the road should clearly be excluded. Period.

SSbaby · 09-02-2005, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aussie Pete

But have a think about the exclusions. I have no issue with the Typhoon being excluded. Too fair I reckon. If it dies, kill it off.

But for years Holden/HSV have been blowing power steering pumps and seals but this year they fit a cooler and all that happens is the car pumps boiled fluid all over the engine bay and the road. Yet they don't get thrown out? Come on. Not a Holden thing, just plain common sense.

In my opinion, and to be fair I'm glad the VZ R8 did as well as it did for our Aussie V8 image, the cars that pumped power steering oil all over the road should clearly be excluded. Period.

I think that's why Motor introduced the '2 strikes rule', AP... they were sick of the HSV's spilling their guts & not spending enough drive time ...

Mark351 · 09-02-2005, 01:38 PM

Who'd blame them for being a bit more critical after they were accused of being flat-shifting clutch destroyers?

paul7v7 · 09-02-2005, 01:50 PM

well if the GTP won then i would believe it was a farce. I agree with AP that something needs to be done about the cars that leak fluid everywhere. The Carrera deserved the award imo. a good car. I think top gear said that it lapped the nurburgring track 27sec quicker than the previous model.

BA GT-HO · 09-02-2005, 02:17 PM

How can an SL65 AMG be beaten by a bloody Renault Clio and a Honda Integra?

XplosiveR6 · 09-02-2005, 02:18 PM

all of the quater times for holden and ford where rubbish, none of them got into the 13 seconds,they are getting more and more powerfull yet motor dont seem to be able to get any better times out of these cars

F6 - 14.6
GTP - 14.4
Cv8 - 14.55
GTO - 14.29
SS - 14.43
R8 - 14.01
all very **** poor for the amount of tourque and power these cars have, all of the above mentioned cars should be able to break the 13sec mark

wrx365 · 09-02-2005, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EF_Dave

all of the quater times for holden and ford where rubbish, none of them got into the 13 seconds,they are getting more and more powerfull yet motor dont seem to be able to get any better times out of these cars

F6 - 14.6
GTP - 14.4
Cv8 - 14.55
GTO - 14.29
SS - 14.43
R8 - 14.01
all very **** poor for the amount of tourque and power these cars have, all of the above mentioned cars should be able to break the 13sec mark

They did say upfront it was a very hot day.

Look at the end of the day they are trying to find the best new performance car of the year...not the second third or fourth best..with any system there will always be anomalies in the lower ranks....as long as they correctly pick the best car thats the only thing that counts...

It seems that the Porsche was the correct decision...they always win maybe because they produce the best performance cars...

Looking at the performance figures the GTP did pretty well considering it was only bettered by extreme exmaples from STI, EVO8, R8 and three euoros.

au-steve · 09-02-2005, 02:41 PM

HSVs thats slow? hmmmmm, interesting. As a die-hard patriot im pretty upset by these results.

jspec_sti · 09-02-2005, 03:58 PM

How could the 2 Renaults beat the GTP???

SSbaby · 09-02-2005, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bladexr8

How could the 2 Renaults beat the GTP???

Don't underestimate the Renault Clios... even if you drive a V8. Those things are pocket rockets. I had to try hard to keep up with one from the lights (pre-cam days). The oriental Clio driver had a mate in his car... both were happy to see me pedal my car hard just to get in front. We stopped at the lights and I asked him what he had under the bonnet... "2.0L Non-turbo" was his short response...

:

Around the curves, forget it - you don't have much chance of keeping up!

You guys have been warned!

FNQracing · 10-02-2005, 12:02 AM

SSbaby,

Sorry, a bit off topic.... But whats the deal with your "other" LS1 forum site? A fallout with ls1.com.au?

SSbaby · 10-02-2005, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFOracing

SSbaby,

Sorry, a bit off topic.... But whats the deal with your "other" LS1 forum site? A fallout with ls1.com.au?

Hey FFOracing

It's a bit of a long story but it's quite public, actually - I don't know if you've noticed but my account is suspended from ls1.com.au. Anyway, this thread should give you some insight as to how it all unfolded...

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=33909

I was suspended for the reason that I used their PM system to invite members to participate in a tuning discussion on the 'new' LS1 forum, as ls1.com.au don't really provide the environment to do that... so I went about setting up another forum which caters to such member's needs, with the help of the hosting site's owner.

You are welcome to join our forum, btw, and I will grant you full read access, which includes access to the technical and tuning sections. :hihi:

Cheers

TheSneakiness · 09-02-2005, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bladexr8

How could the 2 Renaults beat the GTP???

Another thing is weight. Major issue. The GT-P is on the wrong side of 1800kgs. Renaults have gotta be at least 300kg lighter.

jspec_sti · 09-02-2005, 05:40 PM

Thanks for the info SSBaby. I'll keep it in mind.

MrSparkle · 09-02-2005, 06:38 PM

Have just read the PCOTY article from beginning to end on the train home and it is a great read. There isn't anything controversial about the results, the placings, or the acceleration times / speeds considering the weather. Let's not pull out the usual bullshit of "oh look at that time, it *SHOULD* be such and such...", get over it FFS. These are the times, these are the cars, that was the day.

Surprised that Mitsu supplied them with such a rough Evo, surely they would like to represent their only true performance model with something a bit tidier (especially in the rubber department)?

The CL65 is a beast, it's big and heavy but bloody hell, look at it's figures! Stunning looker too.

The Porker would be a sweet drive, arguably the most complete road experience one can have. Not keen on their new rims though, but the new headlights are SO much better than the "fried egg" ones of the 996.

The GTO just goes to show that even with a strong engine, a stupid gearbox can still manage to totally destroy the driving experience. The SS showed it's true colours in the braking department, and about time I say.

The GTP did ok in the company it was in, and certainly the fundamental flaw of the Boss (weight, location, and weight!) is rightly highlighted. I'd still have one, just like the one tested - black.

I'm going to start lobbying for Motor to conduct their hill climb / road session on the Old Pacific Highway

Oh what I would give to be the Lucky Bastard!

Franky · 10-02-2005, 12:08 AM

I'd much prefer a COTY award over a PCOTY but as far as the GT being FPV's benchmark performance car that's a pretty average result

FNQracing · 10-02-2005, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devil Racer

I'd much prefer a COTY award over a PCOTY but as far as the GT being FPV's benchmark performance car that's a pretty average result

LOL, don't get me started on COTY. They have gotten in too wrong too many times. Phil Scott (ex editor of Wheels) publicly admitted they were biased towards local cars at the time. To be fair, they have been a lot better lately. Still, a BAD track record.

Remember the following COTY's? They were all turds:

1. P76
2. Camira
3. VN Commodore
4. VR Commodore

Sure 20/20 hindsight is a great thing, but these cars were sooo far off the mark it was'nt funny.

As for PCOTY, FPV need to first lookup the meaning of performance car, then go back to the drawing board.

This Prodrive outfit just seem to be on another planet.

T_Terror · 10-02-2005, 01:59 AM

THe top echelons look right to me.

I love and drive Fords but lets not kid ourselves, out of the factory theyre not at the top of the game performance wise.

LTDHO · 10-02-2005, 09:03 AM

What I don't understand is why the CV8 is so high?

There is nothing special about it!

**Polyal** · 10-02-2005, 11:18 AM

meh..I think thats about were FPV sit at the moment.

When did the mag come out? I really need to get to the newsagency.

flappist · 10-02-2005, 12:15 PM

The PCOTY makes sense to me. Performance is more than the quickest 400m time.
The Porsche, EVO and sic'em are all hard nose bone shaking road rockets.
PCOTY is not about value for money (BFYB) or quality of ride or durability, it is about YAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! and nothing else.

Have you ever seen a Porsche, EVO, STI or whatever with 200,000km on them? There are lots of commys and falcs getting around with that many and more. Have you ever driven a long time (10 hours plus) in a 'real' sports car?
Not good for your body.....
The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long.....

Of course the pocket rockets are going to win this and so they should.

Now I know some will burr up at this but if you really think that FPV or HSV actually make sports cars have a drive in a Boxter or a Carerra or better still (and this is easier to do as they are keen to sell them) a Lotus Elise or Exige. THESE are sports cars, totally useless for anything other than going fast and having fun, but then that is the point isn't it.

SSbaby · 10-02-2005, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Have you ever seen a Porsche, EVO, STI or whatever with 200,000km on them? There are lots of commys and falcs getting around with that many and more. Have you ever driven a long time (10 hours plus) in a 'real' sports car?
Not good for your body.....
The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long.....

Bingo! Go straight to the front of the class, flappist! We tend to underestimate just how good our FPVs and HSVs are when we use them for their intended purpose... which isn't mainly around a racetrack!